Has the Tigers' Off-Season Window Shopping Begun?

by Ian Casselberry on Oct 6, 2008 3:00 PM EDT in News Comment 19 comments

So what exactly will the Detroit Tigers be shopping for this off-season? I'm sure we'll each have several ideas to toss around in the weeks to come, and this week's poll question covers that very topic. But Jon Paul Morosi got started on the speculation in yesterday's Freep, with his thoughts on what the Tigers might actually do.

The biggest problem, unfortunately, is that the teams with players that could help the Tigers will very likely want starting pitching in return. And as you know, there currently isn't much of that to be had in the organization. If so, they'd have probably been pitching in Detroit this past season.

In that case, you can probably rule out a deal with Milwaukee for shortstop J.J. Hardy, or with Texas for catcher Gerald Laird or one of their shortstop prospects. But maybe Dave Dombrowski can get creative and find something he'd be willing to spare that either of those teams could possibly want.

Another name Morosi brings up as a potential catcher is Arizona's Miguel Montero. At the very least, he'd provide a left-handed bat who could platoon with Dusty Ryan. This past season, Montero batted .255/.330/.435 in 207 plate appearances with five home runs and 18 RBIs. And defensively, he allowed no passed balls in 53 games, which already makes him an improvement over Brandon Inge's 11 PBs in 60 games. (In fairness, Inge is a little better at throwing out baserunners.)

Just in case you're screaming, "But what about the bullpen?" Morosi predicts the Tigers will sign two free agent relievers. Yet he then kind of talks himself out of that, looking at who's available, while acknowledging that Detroit has three hard-throwing prospects playing in the Arizona Fall League. But hey, I often think I'll write something, only to end up writing something else after a bit of research. Happens all the time.

0 recs | Comment 19 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

What's he been reading?

I think Morosi is off the mark on a lot of this.

The team will not deal what few pieces they have left for players who will most likely amount to stop-gaps. Despite Leyland’s apparent discomfort with trusting younger players Dombrowski has basically told him to deal with it.

The starting SS next year might be Renteria, it might be Danny Worth or it might also be a cheap fielding guy like Adam Everett. Dombrowski apparently likes Cale Iorg a lot and sees little point in dealing for a long-term solution at that position.

Same goes for C. While its been noted that the team may go after a LH or switch-hitting catcher like Valentin, Varitek or Estrada to platoon with Ryan, the chances of dealing for a longer term solution like Laird are slim. I also think it’s possible that a Thames for Schneider deal is possible.

The reliever scenario seems more on point. It’s probable that Lyon, Juan Cruz or Rafael Soriano could be brought in to compete for (or be given) the closer’s spot.

Porcello isn’t going anywhere. Even if Dombrowski wanted to trade him he’d probably wait till the kid had some innings at levels higher than A+.

I think The Tigers might push pretty hard for an Ordonez trade, even if it means eating some salary. If the guy makes 125 starts next season he’s guaranteed for ‘10 and ’11 at $33m. That’s a lot of commitment to a 35 year old outfielder. He might stay healthy but would you take that chance if you didn’t have to?

by MacRae on Oct 6, 2008 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's go Rays!

I root for the Tigers and whoever is playing the White Sox. I am glad to see the Rays just bounced the White Sox from the postseason.

by ThaWalrus9 on Oct 6, 2008 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Will Ohman

If we get him, we at least fill the quota of awesome Harry Caray impressions

by ReichardZ on Oct 6, 2008 9:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A bit of crazy

Can’t speak on SS, but it seems like loony tunes to invest much in a catcher when you’ve got Ryan (who seems fine at least, and is pretty young), and a couple more decent prospects in James Skelton and Alex Avila.

Free agent relievers? Fine, Morosi, but your example is a cherry pick. Everyone is always investing in risky relief men, and most of the time, it doesn’t work:

“Last winter, the Reds signed closer Francisco Cordero to a risky long-term contract. Their reward: 74-88, same as the Tigers.”

Doesn’t sound as good.

Good relief is great, as we know from 2006, but breaking the bank on a guy who’s going to throw 60 innings a year when we’ve got prospects coming up seems weird.

Ordonez? By all means, trade him if you think you’ve got something to do with the money. The tricky thing about Maggs is that you definitely want him if you think you can contend. If you don’t, though, and you trade him, you might not be decent again before Polanco and Guillen are starting to become “age risks”.

Also, who would be willing to deal for him? Ideally, you need a free-spending GM who thinks that he’s the missing piece. Brian Cashman is out, because his corner outfield is already 34 year old stars. Cincy might be looking, but I can’t advocate hosing them in a trade, since the girlfriend is a Reds fan. But Jocketty/Bavasi might be looking to make some moves.

by cherub_daemon on Oct 7, 2008 1:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maggs is good, but come on...

Ordonez is a great hitter, don’t get me wrong. But it seems like everyone thinks that without him we don’t contend next year. Well, we had him this year and we didn’t contend. We had him in ‘05 and we didn’t contend. And even a career year at the plate couldn’t get us to the playoffs in ’07.

The guy is worth about 5 wins a year which, while not nothing, isn’t impossible to replace. Hell, if we get a better season out of Verlander, a healthy season out of Bonderman, a full season of Cabrera being Cabrera and a bullpen the team will have more than made up for his absence.

Furthermore the issue with Maggs isn’t ‘09. If he plays 125 games next season his options for ’10 and ’11 are guaranteed at $33m. While he may still be healthy and productive then, it’s a huge risk for a guy that’s going to be 35 this year.

Ordonez shouldn’t just be given away. But provided our pitching staff is better there is no reason to think that we will repeat years in the cellar just because he isn’t in the lineup.

Suitors? That’s a bigger issue. Off the top of my head:

Cubs, Phils, Braves, Mets, Rays?, Reds?

by MacRae on Oct 7, 2008 1:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In answer to your question....

Yes, they probably are shopping and maybe for a new skipper. Jim is making a fool of himself, imo. More than anyone else, I’d hate to lose Maggs.

by densogirl on Oct 7, 2008 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In my Jim Mora voice....

You CAN’T trade Mags!

I would like them to get Laird from the Rangers. Let Dusty back him up and learn the trade. NO to the unspeakable at short…… Pitching is a crap shoot, who the hell knows who will actually get better/come back ect, but it will also depend on who the pitching coach is going to be (along with who is catching!)

by Zappatista on Oct 7, 2008 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Catchers

Hi, long time reader, first time “commentor.”

Anyway, what about looking into Josh Bard as a free agent pick up? He had a terrible year, but the previous two years weren’t bad, as far as catchers go. He was injured for most of this year so it’s possible he’ll bounce back and it’ll be a good, cheap (maybe? I don’t know what he’s looking to get) signing. He’s a switch hitter and has good RISP #‘s. I’m just not crazy about Gerald Laird and if you have the option of signing someone for a decent price instead of giving up some players (when the Tigers don’t have much to give at this point) for a not so great player, I would go with the former.

by ForcedOpinion on Oct 7, 2008 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Surprisingly, Bard isn’t eligible for free agency yet. I don’t know if arbitration year players can be let go by their teams. If he can be and is I agree that he’d be ideal for our purposes next year.

I agree that Laird shouldn’t be in the discussion. We shouldn’t go trading for players who will cost us good guys when those players aren’t necessarily needed for the long-term.

by MacRae on Oct 7, 2008 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All the information I have found (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AufTKSYdroywhZAK0HcCyQyFCLcF?slug=ap-padresmoves&prov=ap&type=lgns – being an example) has stated that Bard cleared waivers and chose to be a free agent.

Miguel Montero wouldn’t be a bad idea, IMO he’s a better (and younger) player than Gerald Laird so my guess is Arizona would want more from the Tigers than Texas. But, if anything, Arizona may need offensive players instead of pitching (which is what Texas is looking for), so maybe a trade could work out to where the Tigers get a pitcher, Montero, and maybe another player for Magglio? I don’t want to trade Magglio, but it’s just a guess what Arizona may want.

I think I’d still try and get Bard and use a platoon w/him and Ryan.

by ForcedOpinion on Oct 7, 2008 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

my mistake. yes, bard would be a good pick-up and relatively cheap.

I’d still much rather go after a Bard, Valentin, Varitek or Estrada than trade for a short-term catcher, but a guy like Montero might come cheap.

by MacRae on Oct 7, 2008 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know I've said this here before...

I don’t get the Trade Maggs fever. Unless you get a front line starter or a good shortstop, it doesn’t make sense if we are trying to be compettive in 09. I can hear those sayiing we weren’t competitve this year, but the last I checked, Ordonez doesn’t pitch.

Keep in mind that immediately after Maggs’ oblique went bad, so did the season. Other factors went into that, such as the end of interleague, but with Maggs gone, pitches did not have to worry about Miggy as much. The offense hit a funk, and lord knows the pitching couldn’t make up for it.

Also, consider the market. Not many can or would want to pay that salary for a guy at 35. Dumping him for prospects won’t satisfy the fan base. Another factor is that this organization bitterly disappointed its fans with its performance and has already dumped its most popular player (Pudge). DD may not care about that, but Mr. I is in no mood to see a mass exodus next year from the stands.

Again, if you can get one or two major contributors, go ahead. But you won’t. A bag of prospects simply isn’t enough to get for a hitter this talented and productive.

by rook34 on Oct 8, 2008 1:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This will be the 3rd time I’ve written this within the thread and maybe the sixth on the whole blog but…

If Maggio Ordonez plays 125 games in 2009 his options for 2010 and 2011 are guaranteed at $18m and $15m respectively.

Basically if Maggs starts the year in Detroit he will play here whether or not he breaks down at 36 or 37 for $33 million. That may not happen, but it’s a big risk and a lot of money and there’s no getting around that.

Because of Dombro’s apparent love for Iorg, trading Maggs for a SS seems unlikely. If he’s dealt he should be dealt for pitching. A high-ceiling pitching prospect would likely be the happy medium there. We’re not gettng Cole Hamels for Ordonez and I wouldn’t want a guy like Brett Myers or Joe Blanton. But I would gladly take Carlos Carrasco off their hands. This is all contingent on how much salary (if any) is eaten by The Tigers, but this is the first time I’ve heard that getting a good pitching prospect for a 35 year old RF is a bad thing.

The market for Maggs isn’t great, but it isn’t terrible either. The only other RF who is on the market with the kind of production Maggs has is Bobby Abreu and he isn’t exactly cheap. He’s also lefthanded, something the Phils, Rays, Mets and Braves don’t need.

This doomsday-ing about the batting order I simply don’t understand. Go back and look at the lineup from 2006. Despite career years from Inge and Monroe it really isn’t that impressive. Even the infallible Ordonez had a down year. Now we have more production from Granderson and Polanco, a (while not refined) good player in Matt Joyce and Miguel Flippin’ Cabrera who already is the centerpiece of this offense even if no one sees it yet.

For the sake of a better pitching staff I say let Maggs’s millions go and trust Grandy, Polly, Miggy, Guillen, Sheff and Joyce to produce some runs for you.

I would cut Dombro some slack on the Pudge deal. Rodriguez went into our GM’s office and asked to be traded. It’s not a position he wanted to be in and he didn’t do it to piss off Tiger fans. He was merely trying to oblidge an unhappy star who was probably not going to come back in 2009.

Also, if trading Maggs means reduced attendnace, especially when this team is festooned with more than a half-dozen other exciting players, that doesn’t speak very highly of Tiger fans. I hope for the love of my team that’s not true.

by MacRae on Oct 8, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay....I will continue and clarify

First off, I am not arguing to be difficult or anything. Just some honest differences of opinion.

Actually, I am not blaming DD for moving Pudge. I am just acknowledging the fact that the team’s most popular player with the majority of the fan base (not here on the board) was Pudge, and he is gone. I know he is gone with reason. A lot of fans don’t know that, they just know that he is not there and a big part of the team is gone.

To the batting order, I disagree totally. We have just inserted an automatic out who does not bunt or move runners, along with being that automatic out (Inge). More than likely, we are going to have another one with whomever is doing the catching. Add in a weak hitting SS (probably all that is available) and you now have three dead spots everyday. Four if you count Sheff. Replacing Maggs with either Joyce or Thomas or a combination of the two makes five highly inconsistent (at best) spots in the lineup in a division loaded with run-scoring talent. Taking Maggs away means Miggy will walk a ton and hit less. Lord knows Miggy is not a threat to steal or score from first on a double.

Joyce is not ready for prime time, at least not on a 120-140 game basis. Breaking balls from righties and pretty much anything from lefties handcuffed him. Good fastball hitter and has some good potential but he is not ready to play every day.

Have to get something better than a prospect for Maggs, contract be damned. Mr. I has no qualms about spending $ if he thinks something is worth it. I am not calling Ordonez infallible but this team is a lot better with him in 2009, unless someone is willing to part with solid everyday contributors to fill some of the other holes.

by rook34 on Oct 8, 2008 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So basically we’re looking at a trade that won’t happen or committing $51m and 3 years to a 35 year old outfielder.

At least I know where you stand.

I still take issue with the batting order thing. Our order only has to be a juggernaut if the pitching is horrible. And if the pitching is horrible were not making the playoffs anyway.

I could concede that with a good closer & set-up guy and decent years from Verlander, Bonderman, Galarraga, Garcia? and Robertson/Willis that Ordonez could be a difference maker.

But that contract commitment still bothers me. And I would much rather put together a solid pitching staff than depend on a 36 and 37 year old Ordonez to put the team on his back for two seasons and $33m.

by MacRae on Oct 8, 2008 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, that's where I stand.

I am not a believer in trades for prospects. Most of them don’t pan out. I could give a list of surefire pitching prospects that ended up out of baseball in 2-3 seasons, but the list would not fit in this box.

I’d rather pay a ton for an everyday player who is productive than have a flameout by an unproven 22 year old.

by rook34 on Oct 12, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs