Was Edwin Jackson a Consolation For Losing Putz?
First, let's not bury the lede. Scratch J.J. Putz off the list for potential Tigers closers next season. In an apparent effort to build the best bullpen ever, the New York Mets acquired Putz as part of a three-way trade with the Seattle Mariners and Cleveland Indians.
Here are the complete details of the deal from MLB.com's Jim Street. The Mariners get Aaron Heilman, Endy Chavez, and Mike Carp from the Mets, along with Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians. That probably tops whatever the Tigers may have offered, even if Matt Joyce was part of any potential deal.
But a refusal to include Joyce in a package to Seattle seems to have collapsed another three-way trade that the Tigers would have been involved in, along with the Tampa Bay Rays.
Here's the scuttlebutt from the Seattle Times' Geoff Baker:
In that proposal, the Tigers would have kicked first baseman Jeff Larish into the pot, but not outfielder Matt Joyce. No word on whether the Rays would have sent someone to Seattle, but the M's wound up walking away. At that point, the Tigers turned around and dealt Joyce to the Rays for starter Edwin Jackson.
This doesn't exactly bring clarity to a trade I'm still conflicted over, however. Joyce was too valuable to trade for a badly needed closer, yet dealing him for a middle-of-the-rotation starting pitcher (which I concede that the Tigers might need, as well) seemed preferable? Am I missing something here?
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The M’s also got three other outfielders from the Mets.
The divide is pretty clear to me. Getting an average starting pitcher with upside and three years of control for one mid-level prospect is highly preferrable to dealing 2-3 prospects for one year of a closer.
What would start to put this into more perspective is if Robertson or Miner (I doubt anyone will take Willis) can now be traded for relief.
I am curious if Sherrill, Valverde or C.J. Wilson/Frank Francisco could be had if enough of Robertson’s salary was eaten.
by MacRae on
Dec 11, 2008 12:23 AM EST
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Nope -- 1 OF, 1 LHP, 1 RHP
the LHP, Vargas, could well end up in our bullpen; the other two are a ways away. FWIW, a lot of us in Seattle would rather have had Joyce, though that’s partly because it wouldn’t have cost us Valbuena (not to mention Tuesdays with Sean Green; come over to Lookout Landing to see what I mean).
And as I noted below, it would have been two years of J. J., not one
by The Ancient Mariner on
Dec 12, 2008 9:57 AM EST
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Relievers are getting in short supply quick
Yah Valerde would be a prize and Sherrill not too bad. You can keep Wilson. The problem I see with Sherrill and Valverde is, do the Astros and Orioles have any young guns waiting in the wings to take over closer role?
by Barry2 on
Dec 11, 2008 12:39 AM EST
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Closers are somewhat overrated
Being a closer isn’t some mystical quality. Todd Jones was able to get over 300 saves and we all saw what he was working with. I agree, it wasn’t worth trading 2-3 prospects for one year of a closer.
I think the Tigers should try to sign Juan Cruz, and Brandon Lyon and let them battle it out for closer duties during spring training.
by ThaWalrus9 on
Dec 11, 2008 12:44 AM EST
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I would definitely simma down now
if the Tigers signed Cruz and Lyon.
by Ian Casselberry on
Dec 11, 2008 12:53 AM EST
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Take heart Tigers fans
Dombrowski has a decent track record for snagging young starters from other teams (Dontrelle was sort of forced on him, although the 3 year deal was a bad idea). Remember, he found Armando Galarraga for peanuts.
by ThaWalrus9 on
Dec 11, 2008 12:54 AM EST
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Remeber Renteria
On the good news side The Tigers got a SS, C and SP for less than what it would have cost had Rents accepted arb.
by MacRae on
Dec 11, 2008 12:57 AM EST
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True
Probably a good thing he didn’t go trading for another shortstop. Although, back in the day he really pulled the Mariners’ pants down in getting Carlos Guillen for Ramon Santiago (yes, that Ramon Santiago) and Juan Gonzalez (no, not that Juan Gonzalez).
by ThaWalrus9 on
Dec 11, 2008 1:00 AM EST
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Thanks for the reminder, he said sourly
Fortunately, we’re under new management now; the guy who was responsible (from the shadows) for that
little gem just saddled the Phillies with a $30 million boat anchor named Raúl Ibañez. (Equally from the shadows, but still — Pat Gillick doesn’t let go easily.)
On another note, w/r/t a comment above: it wouldn’t have been one year of J. J., since he’s under team control for two more seasons.
by The Ancient Mariner on
Dec 12, 2008 9:54 AM EST
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There's another "Closer" still available
Who wants to ride the Eric Gagne trains?
by ThaWalrus9 on
Dec 11, 2008 12:58 AM EST
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Jackson, Willis, Zumaya, Bonderman, Rodney and now Gagne?
Is this a baseball team or the project desk at Home Depot? Hi-Yo!
I was with you before though. I don’t like paying big money for saves when guys like Jones can do a perfectly adequate job closing games for you. Lyon would be perfectly fine with me and Ian has me totally sold on Cruz.
Anyone want to go bargain hunting with Fernando Cabrera?
by MacRae on
Dec 11, 2008 1:08 AM EST
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Projects
Ha Ha, I agree, hope Rick Knapp is ready to go to work. He was the Twins’ minor league pitching coordinator, and that’s a heck of a track record.
I was actually kidding about Gagne, although I wouldn’t mind them taking a flyer on him if he was super cheap and they weren’t relying on him. Same would go for Fernando Cabrera or any number of other guys floating around out there. Juan Rincon is a guy I’d take a look at. Building a bullpen ain’t an exact science, so I am hopeful they can turn up a few useful arms.
by ThaWalrus9 on
Dec 11, 2008 1:19 AM EST
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I went to bed too early!!!
I don’t like losing Joyce, AT ALL. But now, we have too many pitchers as starters. They need to find a way to get rid of D-Train and/or Nate (at least). I really want Minor to get a shot at starting. I like Sherrill, but there not going to come off of him for nothing.
I think the biggest thing for a closer is their mental make up….toughness. If they can throw strikes and be cool (bitch be cool! tell that bitch to be cool!) they can be successful.
by Zappatista on
Dec 11, 2008 8:50 AM EST
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Sherrill
Don’t the O’s still have Chris Ray coming back from injury? Sherrill might be expendible. Ray was a decent closer before he got hurt.
http://designaterobertson.blogspot.com
by Rogo on
Dec 11, 2008 9:27 AM EST
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TODD JONES
Everyone wanted to roast him at the stake and now we are saying that he did a good job well he was here. My what a fickle group Tigers fans are.
Watch out Tigers faithful, we might still end up with a 41 year old closer. SMOLTZ anyone?
Water covers 70% of the earth, Curtis Granderson covers the rest!!
by BigReg on
Dec 11, 2008 9:53 AM EST
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I didn’t particularly care for paying Jones $7m to watch his arm go dead.
However, paying $5M – $6M dollars for a WXRL a little above 4 (which is basically what Jones provided in ‘06 and ’07) is not that bad of a deal. It doesn’t make any sense that an average of 1 – 2 more wins added per year (basically what K-Rod provides) equals twice that salary.
Expensive closers are a luxury, not a necessity and I am pleased that DD seems like he believes in that philosophy. Depending on what Lyon or Cruz were paid I actually think the return on that cost would exceed what K-Rod and Fuentes will provide. Doesn’t make them better pitchers, just means that I think $10M – $12M exceeds the value of what the higher tier guys provide.
by MacRae on
Dec 11, 2008 11:43 AM EST
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Smoltz
There are rumors that both sides are interested and the Braves don’t want to guarentee Smoltz a contract for ‘09. Any chance DD is selling him on being the Tigers closer on a one year deal?
Also, this deal demands that something be done with Robertson or Willis. I know he has a big upside so I don’t hate the move but with Verlander, Galarraga and Bondo in the folds this move clearly bumps one guy out (unless Bondo is not healthy). I also believe Miner deserves a shot at the rotation but I doubt now that he will get it. We can not afford either Robertson or Willis’ salary to have them simply working long relief.
File this under “my crazy thought of the day” but I believe the Rangers have expressed interest in Robertson before and they also expressed mild interest in Shef. If we could dump both on the Rangers for even peanuts in return I think that would be a good deal for us.
Final though on this. I had Joyce penciled in as a back up for Gullien in LF. Gullien missed nearly 40 games last year. Thames now becomes harder to trade because I think we need someone in place that can fill in for Carlos. Thames is great when he is hot but that usually only lasts a month. If Gullien gets hurt again I think we will have a major problem in LF.
by tigerfaninChicago on
Dec 11, 2008 12:07 PM EST
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How I
SP:
Verlander
Bonderman
Galarraga
Miner
Jackson/Robertson
RP:
Jackson/Robertson
Bloom (just took him in Rule 5)
Dolsi
…others…
Setup/Closer:
Rodney
Willis
Zumaya
The Willis at closer thing seems weird, maybe. But he’s still a fairly young pitcher who was really overworked in his early career. Limiting his innings, and allowing him to get guys out on pure stuff might do him some good. And it’s probably less scary to have him come in in the 9th with no one on than the 6th to clean up a mess.
by cherub_daemon on
Dec 11, 2008 12:57 PM EST
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I'll take Edwin Jackson
Each season he has improved somewhat… he’s a young kid (fits in with Verlander and Bonderman, same age group)
He throws hard, which seems to be a requirement to be a pitcher for the Tigers…
he was once a top prospect in the Dodgers’ farm system
I’ll take him. I think he could play the role of Kelvim Escobar, to be honest. He could be closer or starter…
by Boney on
Dec 11, 2008 12:58 PM EST
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No way he's in the pen
The Tigers did not just trade for a 25 year old pitcher who sits at 93mph, has a slider and a change and pitched average ball over nearly 190 IP in 2008 to put him in the bullpen. It would be an absolute waste.
To wit:
“I’m starting to feel a lot better about our starting pitchers,” Dombrowski said Wednesday night. “I’m also feeling better about the depth.”
Jackson is now our 4th starter, no doubt. Who is 5th is now the big question.
by MacRae on
Dec 11, 2008 1:55 PM EST
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One last word on Edwin
He was drafted as an outfielder, then converted to pitching by the Dodgers. They then rushed him to the majors as a 19 year old without much pitching experiencing. There’s still some growth potential here, he doesn’t have as much pitching experience as your normal 25 year old big league starter.
by ThaWalrus9 on
Dec 12, 2008 12:08 AM EST
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I got this info
From an old Baseball America scounting report on him from 2003, after his rookie year. You can find it here.
Their conclusion then, granted 5 years ago, was: “Jackson is the complete package, and fits the profile of a top-of-the-line starting pitcher to a tee. He established himself as one of the elite prospects in baseball even before his September callup, and his performance all but guaranteed him a spot in the Los Angeles rotation for 2004. He’s the best homegrown pitching prospect the Dodgers have developed since Pedro Martinez, and they don’t plan on letting this one get away.”
So, I have hopes he may yet be more than a 4th starter…
by ThaWalrus9 on
Dec 12, 2008 12:10 AM EST
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Edwin Jackson should give the Tigers about 15 wins if...
Jackson,though control-troubled,can be a stud for the Bengals(I believe he pitched 183 in-
nings for the Rangers in ‘08.)He’s got a mid-90’s heater and at 25,should improve.Also,with
Gerald Laird catching,Adam Everett at short and Curtis Granderson in center(for the nonce,
at least),E.J. will have at least three defensive stalwarts supporting him,plus the line-up
should be potent enough to give a healthy Jackson,perhaps,15 wins.(of course,if they have
to close with Fernando Rodney again,and Justin Verlander and Jeremy Bonderman don’t
return to their ‘07 form,another basement finish can’t be ruled out for the boys.)
Brady Baylis
by BraystreetLad on
Dec 12, 2008 9:20 AM EST
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