The Quest For Relief: Closers Are Costly
by Ian Casselberry on Dec 9, 2008 12:30 PM EST
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintNow that the Detroit Tigers have shored up their up-the-middle defense for the 2009 season by nabbing a catcher and shortstop, general manager Dave Dombrowski can focus on the most expensive item on his offseason shopping list: The closer.
Interest in free agent Kerry Wood seems to be between the Tigers and New York Mets. However, several reports out of Las Vegas say the Mets have zeroed in on Francisco Rodriguez, and after making an initial offer of a two-year, $24 million contract with a vesting option for a third year, it appears that the two sides have agreed on a three-year, $37 million deal that SI.com's Jon Heyman hears is "going to get done." So not only would this eliminate some competition for the Tigers, but the market for closers would finally be set.
However, Yahoo! Sports' Gordon Edes says the Boston Red Sox might be a surprise suitor for Wood, eyeing him as a set-up man for Jonathan Papelbon.
The other option that's generating heat is a trade for Seattle's J.J. Putz. According to the Seattle Times' Geoff Baker, the Tigers have been the most aggressive team in trying to make a deal. (And we've seen over the past 36 hours what can happen when Dombrowski gets aggressive.) Putz would be cheaper than Wood in terms of dollars ($5 million next season, and a club option for $8.6 million in 2010), but he could cost Detroit some of its best young players.
Seattle's largest need is for a left fielder, which would seem to make Matt Joyce their trade target. Jeff Larish is also mentioned as a possibility, and the Mariners also have an opening at first base that he could fill. (Though they also just signed Russell Branyan and former Tiger Chris Shelton, who will surely compete for that spot.) Baker even mentioned Brent Clevlen as a possibility.
But could the Mariners want it all, so to speak? Check out what Jon Paul Morosi reported in the Freep:
Seattle officials believe they will be able to obtain a three-player package in exchange for Putz. For Detroit, that could mean parting with young left-handed hitters Matt Joyce and Jeff Larish, along with a big-league-ready pitcher.
That pitcher, by the way, would likely be Double-A prospect Luis Marte, who posted a 7-7 record and 3.76 ERA, with 78 strikeouts in 103 innings.
So Joyce, Larish, and Marte for a guy coming off an injury-plagued (torso inflammation, hyper-extended right elbow) season in which he pitched just 46 innings and earned 15 saves? Who is he, Jack Wilson? Putz was an elite closer in 2006 and 2007, accumulating 76 saves and 186 strikeouts (vs. 26 walks) in 150 innings. But is it worth wiping out what youth the roster has - not to mention yet another pitching prospect, which would make 11 total over the past three winters - for potentially just one season of Putz?
Didn't we learn anything from the Edgar Renteria trade?
The closer market is too loaded to give up such a haul, even if the Tigers might have to pay more than they'd prefer for Wood. Or perhaps Fuentes, if he becomes available and more affordable in lieu of a Mets/K-Rod pairing. (Additionally, Detroit is one of five teams that will be talking to Chad Cordero.) New Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik is probably looking at Putz to make his first offseason a memorable one. But it shouldn't happen at the expense of the Tigers' future.
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I like your thought of keeping Larish around as a hedge against another poor year from Inge. But yeah, if there’s a young position player that’s expendable, it’s him.
I’d also hate to give up on Joyce. I think he showed a lot of promise last year, and I’m not really sold that Guillen can play left field all season. Having him around to back up Guillen, Ordonez, and Sheffield – and provide a late-inning defensive replacement – would be nice.
by Ian Casselberry on Dec 9, 2008 12:43 PM EST reply actions
I agree.
I think there is a sense that he’s “blocked” this year, but he’s a pretty fantastic back-up OF for the corners and I’ve read that he can even play an adequate CF. Furthermore when Sheff’s contract expires either Maggs or Guillen are going to DH (if they aren’t traded). So far Joyce is the only player in the system who could take an OF spot in 2010. Sure, Wilkin, Clevlen or Wells could emerge, but that’s a gamble I’m not willing to take. Particularly when we already have a very talented OF who can hit major league pitching and is only 24. I like Clete Thomas but he is not an everyday OF by any stretch of the imaginiation.
And as far as a trade is concerned, Joyce could be an everyday OF for this team for years to come. Putz will probably be a closer for one. It just doesn’t make sense to me.
My preference now is just to sign Wood. And honestly if Putz is going to cost Larish and Joyce I’d rather take my chances with Zumaya or Perry.
Giving up Larish would be the biggest mistake we could make in a deal like this. Clevlen has shown very little during his few seasons up and down, minus tremendous inconsistency, so I would think that sending he and Larish for Putz would be the way to go.
Joyce really should be the starting LF at this point, anyway. It’s too bad that an old, broken-down Guillen will be starting there merely because of his salary….
Guillen
I don’t imagine he’s very happy about being out in LF. Maybe I’m wrong, but he seems to have a big ego. He might get back problems again. I’d take Clete Thomas in a heartbeat over Matt Joyce, not that I don’t like Joyce or think he’s valuable, but imo Cletus is more valuable.
Why?
Matt Joyce has the potential to hit 20-25 HR a season. He is a solid defender with good speed and an excellent arm. Scouting reports suggest a peak career of someone like Jim Edmonds. When starting last season he hit .270/.346/.530 with 12 HR (Thomas hit .270/.354/.380 with 1 HR). He also happens to be a year younger than Thomas.
In terms of patience and contact the two are actually somewhat similar. Joyce’s line in the minors is .273/.349/.455 (45 HR, 1368 ABs) while Thomas hit .272/.352/.396 (24 HR, 1612 ABs). Thomas is likely the better defender but unless he can raise his OBP or find a power stroke he won’t be more valuable than Joyce. Since his main asset is his speed he could also regress much faster. His speed and scrap-scrappy-grittiness has obviously made him a fan favorite and I hope he remains on the team, but you simply don’t find players with Joyce’s potential everyday.
Thomas could be a decent CF. Like Ellsbury-ish but with less plate discipline. But until Curtis Granderson explodes there just isn’t a spot for him and he doesn’t have the bat to occupy a corner spot full-time.
Why?
I just love Clete’s intensity. His demeanor never changes. Joyce is very talented, but kind of a pretty boy and he knows it. That’s why! I love Cletus!
Hey, I never said Joyce was more likable (though saving a kitten should put him high on everyone’s list) I’m just saying he’s more valuable.
Once upon a time a young 24 year old man came to Detroit and hit .260/.335/.438 with 8 HR in 162 ABs. Commentators weren’t sure he could ever hit lefties and fans were wary of a man they were told was a better prospect. This young man who arrived in Detroit at a later age than Mr. Joyce, performed worse and met with similar criticism is Curtis Flippin’ Granderson.
I'm with Densogirl...
I have a “Clete’s Cult” t-shirt, and I’d HATE to see it rendered moot.
waynefontes.com
Don't give up the young players
Why do we bemoan all season about mortgaging our future and then enter the offseason and talk about doing it again for Putz. Let’s build for the long haul, not the short term.
I hate the idea of trading for a closer
Look, Todd Jones was successful most of the time as a closer. Its not a magical quality just because Fernando Rodney struggled in the role. Hell, we were all upset a few years back when they dealt Farnsworth. A closer is a good relief pitcher who gives you 50-70 innings a year. That is not worth dealing prospects for.
Did you know Putz had 8 blown saves last year in 46 innings of work? It was an injury plague season for him, so maybe that’s an excuse, but its a troubling excuse. He had 6 blown saves in 2006, and only 2 in 2007.
Fuentes blew 4 last year, 7 in 2007 (including 4 in a row before going on the DL), and 6 in 2006. Lyon blew 5 last year, his first as a closer.
Its not clear to me that Putz is much better than either of those guys, or for that matter Juan Cruz or Trevor Hoffman. That is not worth trading anyone for. Hang onto the kids, if for no other reason than to possibly deal for more starting pitching.
Hessman
Just wondering because of all the Larish talk, has Mike Hessman been completely written off? I know he’s old, but couldn’t he be considered at least as a backup for Inge/Sheff? He’s only had 168 at-bats in the bigs, not really enough to make a true judgment either way, but he smashed the ball in his few games in Detroit last year, and has consistently been a huge power hitter in Toledo.
I know he is not close to being any kind of long-term answer, but it seems like he could be fine as a backup if we were to deal Larish. He could provide a spark off the bench as a 1B/3B/DH here and there (think Russell Branyan for the Brewers last year). Any thoughts?
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