Will This Be Getting Any Better?

by Ian Casselberry on May 16, 2008 1:33 AM EDT in News Comment 11 comments

I'm not writing a recap of whatever that thing was the Tigers did at Kauffman Stadium today. Just so you know. Earlier this evening, I told myself that maybe I should write a recap because a lot of people probably didn't get to see the game while at work. But here's the thing: I didn't watch much of it either. Not once I saw the Tigers fall behind 3-0 in the first inning. And once I saw the final score, I was not about to put myself through that - even if I could whiz through the commercials, DVR-style.

After two games in which Detroit received the sort of starting pitching that should've resulted in two wins, if not for an inexplicable lack of offense, Kenny Rogers just crumbled out there today. Maybe the weight of having to carry the pitching staff - a burden he's hardly suited for anymore - finally broke him. Or maybe he figured that he wouldn't get any run support today, anyway, so why not just chuck the ball up there and see what happens?

Seven Royals runs on 11 hits is what happened. In four innings. To a Kansas City lineup that had Alex Gordon, Mark Grudzielanek, and David DeJesus on the bench. But I'm not writing a recap.

So what are we talking about here? The Detroit Tigers, the team that generated so much hope and excitement for us throughout the winter and spring, are now nine games under .500. They were seven games under when Tigers fans began pulling their hair, ran into the streets screaming, and contemplated ledges and bridges to jump from. Some of us suddenly felt major doubt. Others wondered if it was now horrifyingly apparent that this team had made some major mistakes in player acquisitions. And the Tigers haven't gotten any better since then. Record-wise, they're now worse. Are any of these guys your Tiger right now?

I actually get to take a break from this team for two weeks, traveling to a part of Malaysia that I'm told is about as "off the grid" as it gets. If only I could take the rest of you with me so that you could also detox from the poisonous baseball Detroit has been subjected to over the past seven weeks. Unless, of course, the Tigers suddenly start working and play like they're actually interested in winning some baseball games.

And doesn't this ultimately fall on the players? There haven't been a lot of "Fire Leyland" grumblings here at BYB, and I'd like to think it's because we're a bit more rational than that. But it's not like it's a subject that absolutely can't be addressed. Do I question how hard Leyland's guys are playing for him? Yes, I do, and I also think that reflects poorly on him. But raise your hand if you think Gene Lamont or Lloyd McClendon managing this team makes it any better. Maybe Leyland has become a victim of the Tigers' sudden, unexpected success over the past two seasons. At times, he almost seems like he's managing out of fear, tentatively poking here and there to see just how much he can push his veteran players. That's not how Leyland managed in 2006. He was aggressive. He was decisive.

Look at the Gary Sheffield situation. The dilemma over what to do about the guy with the bum shoulder has Leyland totally flummoxed. How does he get Sheffield going? Does he play Sheff in the field? Does he give Sheff more time off? But what if Sheff loses his timing? And what if Sheff causes more damage to his shoulder? Why doesn't he just put Sheff on the disabled list, like he did to Nate Robertson last year with the "tired arm"? I think Leyland could make a pretty convincing case that Sheffield has a "tired shoulder." No quotation marks necessary.

But when a guy set to be paid $28 million over the next two years says he can play, and the training staff says resting the shoulder won't make much of a difference, what can Leyland really do? The obvious answer is to put him on the DL, and start playing those who can bring some energy - and some production. But the Tigers very likely won't release Sheffield, unless there's some kind of buyout arrangement in his contract. And trading him? Shall we return to the days of "You try to trade him!" challenges from Dave Dombrowski? Leyland and Dombrowski can't wield that kind of hammer with this roster anymore. They're all signed long-term, and for big money. They've already cut the one player they could cut. And Jacque Jones will probably begin playing for the Florida Marlins next week.

Should Leyland start using the bench as more of a weapon? But if he sits Miguel Cabrera, for example, because he thinks Cabrera isn't focusing on his at-bats seriously enough, do you risk losing a player that might already be putting too much pressure on himself to perform? I don't mean to single out Cabrera, because he is hardly the only reason the Tigers aren't playing up to expectations, but it's easy for us to say that he's loafing it because he finally cashed in with a big contract. As a manager, when or how do you make that call - especially if you haven't coached that player before?

But stuff like this is why Leyland gets to sit in the big manager's chair. It's his job to figure out his team and how to get it to play better. And if he can't, that's something the Tigers will certainly have to deal with. But will it come to that during this season or afterwards?

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No Better Options

For the first time in an email exchange with a friend I began to question Leyland too. We came to many of the same conclusions. First, that firing Leyland probably doesn’t fix much of anything and with the amount of respect he gets from his players, it could make things worse…if that’s even possible. And second, that although it is his job to take what he has and make it perform, there is only so much you can do with these guys. And while there are some things he can influence, there are many that have been losing games that he just can’t. He can’t do anything about trotting Rogers and Robertson out to the mound every 5 days. He can’t make these guys faster. And he can’t make them better fielders.

Still, the general bewilderment by him and the constant reminding that the team was not ready for the season out of spring training is vexing. Getting these guys ready to play is his job and to some extent he may have failed at it. But what if this team starts scoring 8 runs a game after the All Star break? No one will know why that happened just like no one knows what in the world is happening now. And if it does happen no one will credit Leyland. Basically, Leyland is one of many who have to share the blame for The Tigers’ record. But placing all blame on the manager when things go poorly is an exercise for Yankee fans, I suggest we restrain ourselves for now.

However, the fact that all the pitchers are basically having the same problems suggests that Hernandez may need a replacement.

While the Sheffield mess in its entirety is perplexing and troubling at many levels, I actually think putting him at LF was a shrewd move by Leyland. Sheff, who is known to be a pain in the ass sometimes, even complained last year that he’s a more focused hitter when he plays the field. I think letting him play there gives Leyland something to point to and say “see, you’re too hurt to be effective in the field and with the exception of a handfull of singles, you don’t exactly rake when you’re there either.” While it looked like an act of desperation, I think Leyland put out a fire before it really got out of hand. Now he just has to put the guy on the DL and bring up Jeff Larish.

A quick note on Cabrera. I also think it’s possible that he’s putting a lot of pressure on himself right now because of that contract as opposed to using it as an excuse to cruise. Not for nothing but he and Maggs have more HR on the team than anyone else and he’s seeing pitchers he never has before. He lost 25 pounds during the off-season and moved to a new position with zero complaint after 20 games. Didn’t run out a ground ball? Alright, lets count how many times he does that and also count how many times everyone else on the team does it during the season. Then lets do the same tally with home runs. I’m willing to bet Miggy wins that one.

by MacRae on May 16, 2008 1:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t even know anymore. This team is my life, 112 million dollars for them, and it’s like they don’t even care. I want to know who is the spark in the lockerroom? Who is trying to get things moving? The 0-7 start was one thing, but that was just a slump. We are over a month into the year now, and still just playing horrific baseball. Leyland took the logical approach, didn’t work, Leyland threw chairs, didn’t work. I don’t know what to do.

Go Tigers

by Tony K on May 16, 2008 6:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I keep saying

maybe this will be the night, but I am sick and tired of saying mabye. Ian, to answer your question, all these guys are my Tigers. These guys are better then they were a couple years ago, at least there is always a chance that they will win, but before we would go into a game knowing that we were going to lose. But, it is getting to the point when they are on and there is something better to to do, I choose the second. I use to watch everyday, but is it worth me getting pissed off? For one thing my dog sure likes it when I don’t watch and if I continue I may need to start going to AA meetings. Can I send DD a bill for all the beer they are causing me to drink?
Anyway, here I go again, maybe tonight will be the night, interleague play has always done the Tigers good, so they will turn things around tonight, right? Heres to hope.
Go Tigers!!!

by miggy4mvp on May 16, 2008 6:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If 2004 didn't make me stop watching, this won't either

But I really was hoping not to see a year like 2004, for a long long time

http://www.fromthecopa.blogspot.com/

by rock n rye on May 16, 2008 7:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would feel better about this team if there was some sign that they were about to put it together.

But there isn’t a sign; not even the faint outlines of one upon the horizon.

Opposing teams have figured out that pitching to the outer part of the plate is the simplest way to beat these hitters. The fact that they have not adjusted is a clear indictment on Lloyd McClendon. Instead, everyone tries to hit home runs, which leads to a frustrating offense to watch.

And if it’s frustrating to watch, imagine how fustrating it must be for the starting pitchers. Going out every day knowing you have to limit the opposing team to 1-2 runs to win is not a pathway to success. Combine that with a porous defense, and you have all the makings of a terrible team.

That’s what they are: terrible.

Again – there is nothing to lead me to believe that they’ll be turning this around anytime soon.

by bradm on May 16, 2008 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

My Vote

I’d vote for changes this season instead of in the off season. The boat needs to be rocked at least a little bit. There need to changes.

Check out www.spotstarters.com for more news on the Detroit Tigers.

by spotstarters on May 16, 2008 10:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hope for the future

I agree miggy4mvp, they’re all my tigers, that’s why its so hard to look at them and say, we got old quick and need to change. Bring back Higgie… sorry I didn’t mean that. If we can’t turn things around this year, and increasingly it seems like that’s the case, we need to refocus on what got us to 2006. Young talented players being allowed to play for the big league club and develop into quality major leaguers. I like the idea about bringing up Larish, but lets not stop there, bring up Hessman, and Clete, and Clevlen, plus we’ve got some starting pitching prospects playing for the Mud Hens right now that just might be able to help out this team and learn some for the future. That kind of experience paid big dividends for Bondy, Maroth, and Robertson, lets give the new guys a chance. I’d rather be terrible with hope for the future than terrible and over the hill…

by busta on May 16, 2008 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Totally agree

You want to “make changes”? Fine. I’m okay with that. Move guys down, sit Sheff, whatever. But we’re not be the 1000-run offense people were expecting, and we’re not locked for the playoffs (at all) and maybe we need to cut our losses, play some prospects, and come back at it next year.

I think if they make changes, they really need to do it in one, decisive stroke, rather than flail around every three games.

“Oh, lets move this guy down. (three games later) Oh, lets scapegoat this coach. (three games later) Put this guy on the DL. (three games later) ...”

Do it all at once, let everyone know this is how its going to be for a while, and play some freakin’ baseball.

I can’t support ditching Leyland, and I can’t support firing his coaches; they’re guys he brought in, and all you’ll do is piss him off. I especially can’t support geting rid of Hernandez while he’s in the middle of working with Zumaya and Rodney.

Oh, and to answer the original question, I think it will get better. We’ve got a lot of guys hitting way off their talent level.

by cherub_daemon on May 16, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Finding a Spark

Alright, I always considered my self a educated, rational Tigers fan. I know where we just got past the first quarter of the season and there is a ton of baseball left to be played. So why is my finger hovering over that panic button? Maybe its because the team seems to show no signs of putting a winning streak together. Maybe its because there seems to be such little effort and with all the veterans, no one seems to want to step up and and be THE leader. How much longer can this really go on? They have to do something to change things up.

It seems like its just a matter of time before Sheff is on the DL and they bring up someone. Ive herd allot about Jeff Larish lately and it would be nice to see what he can do in the big leagues. But i believe there is a better option in Toledo. I would love to see Mike Hessman back in the old english D. Now I know we need a left handed bat (even though Hessman is hitting .325 of right handers), but just think about all that Hessman can bring to the table. The guys has 18 home runs (one every 8.55 at bats) and 34 RBIs. He also won the international league MVP last season with 101 RBIs and 31 HRs in 117 games. What else does a guy have to do to take it to the bigs? Last year he showed that he can play a solid 3rd and 1st base. I believe he would be a defensive upgrade over both Guillen and Cabrera. You could rotate him at both positions, and at DH. I know all he has seen is minor league pitching, but right now, i doubt most of our everyday players could post those kind of numbers in triple A. Hessman might just be the spark they need.

by Soper on May 16, 2008 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Moves

There’s a lot of talk about a lot of moves that could be made. To me, the easiest one is one that we all know SHOULD happen. A simple defensive upgrade at 3rd. Inge. We really can’t afford to give up any extra runs with the way the lineup is producing, and it makes no sense to leave a defensive upgrade sitting on the bench. I know Carlos doesn’t want to DH, but when did this stop being about doing what it takes to win and about trying to make every player happy? Sheff wants to play LF. He’s no good at it. Carlos wants to play infield. He just can’t seem to do it anymore.

Honestly? I’m ready to cut a few people loose if there are too many DHs. I love Guillen’s bat. Let him DH. Do something with Sheff until he’s ready. DL? Ok. Let Carlos give Edgar and Polly a day off from time to time. Even Miggy. Put Joyce out in LF, at least he can hit. Give Inge the regular 3B job. Sure, Carlos can have it once a week when Inge catches.

I’ve been a Sheff apologist for a long time. Maybe too long. Ten years from now the Tigers will still be here and I’ll still be a fan and I won’t give a rat’s ass what happened to Sheff.

by pfuhrmeister on May 16, 2008 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just a Longer Process than we Anticipated

If baseball were purely a numbers game, Todd Jones had it right in the preseason. On paper, we should be 162-0.

But you can bring in guys with numbers and have the most statistically imposing lineup, a solid enough pitching staff, and it yields you last place this late in the season. What can never be added to a lineup is the human/team element. While there wasn’t as much to their batting numbers, there was a helluva lot more trust and confidence between Inge-to-Casey than Guillen-to-Cabrera or any other combo that has been tried at the corners. Despite the stellar careers and reputations of nearly everyone in the lineup and on the mound, the end result has been no different than the old days of Gonzo-Incaviglia-Rob Deer baseball.

I hate feeling this way, but it seems like this is a year of spinning our wheels, some guys getting out of their own heads, some mending their shoulders and arms, maybe keep on developing that new pitch….here’s what I see happening. Maybe these guys gel, maybe a deal is made to make Inge happy and bolster the bullpen. But at this rate, too late to overtake either the Indians, White Sox, maybe even Twins. Until we figure out how to beat the Sox, they’ll fill the power void we anticipated having once their bats get going. Their pitching has actually been there, and even if we get our bats going, you gotta think so will they.

I’ve got a bad feeling we may have to listen Paciorek and that other dipwad homer all the way to October. But nothing like seeing the guys you can’t stand win it all to bring a team together for one purpose, right? The great philosopher Steve Miller once told us, “You got to go through hell before you get to Heaven.” Now THAT would be hell for a couple of these guys.

(Like it was living in Chapel Hill through Duke’s 91-92 seasons before we got ours in 93. And then having to suffer through the D’oh!erty years before righting the ship in 05, but that’s a tangent for another day.)

The Tigers are built to win now with the potential for maintaining a solid core for years to come. Can’t ask for much more than that, combined with a good manager. It took the Red Sox a few seasons after their post-World Series lineup changes to get back to it. So in the end, I’m thrilled we are in a position to be perennial contenders. But the chemistry and hunger aren’t there, so neither is the fun.

And that was a longer and more rambling post than I anticipated.

by Jenius on May 16, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs