Leyland and Dombrowski meet today: Will it be a "Come to Jesus" type meeting?
The Tigers are on an off day, back home after one of the ugliest road trips in memory. Getting swept by the Royals, and losing 2 of 3 to the D-Backs have apparently brought the Tigers' issues to a head.
Word from the Marlboro Man is he and Dave Dombrowski will meet today, and...Well, this is straight from the Cigarette Smoking Man's mouth, as quoted in the Freep
"We have a lot of issues to deal with right now," Leyland said. "That's why I'm meeting with Dave. I'll be able to clear some stuff up, hopefully, in the near future. We've got a lot of issues to address."
Umm...yeah. The Tigers are the worst team in the American League for a reason. They've earned that distinction by playing awful all around baseball. I'll say there's several "issues" to address...
Gary Sheffield: Since that fateful day in 2007 when Sheffield collided with Placido Polanco, re-injuring his shoulder, he's hit .170, with no power. Even though Sheffield is owed $28 million through 2009, it's time to either cut bait, or put him on ice.
I've been as big of a supporter of Sheffield as anyone in Tigerdom. He's a marvelous ballplayer, when healthy. The caveat being he hasn't been healthy for going on 10 months. Everything the Tigers have done to try and kick start Sheffield, cortisone shots in the shoulder, moving him down in the order, regulating his playing time, none of it has worked.
Playing Sheffield in left field, a move obviously made in desperation, was the final straw. As he can't play in the field, his value to the Tigers is totally dependent upon his bat. When that bat can't deliver anything more than a .190 BA, it means Sheffield has absolutely no value. He can't stay in the lineup.
It's time to place Sheffield on the DL, preferably the 60 day DL, and determine once and for all if the final year of his contract can be salvaged. If not, then give him his outright release.
Playing the youngsters: Matt Joyce has become the Tigers sole source of home run power since being called up after the release of Jacque Jones. Ryan Raburn can play all over the field, much like Brandon Inge, but is a much better hitter. All Raburn has done during his call ups in '07 and '08 is play well, both in the field, and at the plate.
There's an obvious left field platoon under Leyland's nose with Joyce and Raburn. Somehow, someway, they need to get on the field. How that can be accomplished (Sheffield to the DL, duh!) may be something that is discussed during today's meeting of the baseball minds.
One thing also worth mentioning, and it may be discussed today. The Tigers have a few kids in Toledo tearing up the International League with their power stats. Namely Mike Hessman, Michael Holliman,and Jeff Larish. All could help the suddenly powerless Tigers.
Armando Galarraga & Dontrelle Willis: Donterlle Willis has finished his injury rehab. Armando Galarraga, brought up from Toledo to take the D-Train's vacated spot in the rotation, has been the Tigers' best starter over the past month. The Tigers have 6 starting pitchers, while only needing 5.
Willis is being paid $29 million for 3 seasons, so no matter what fans want, he's going to be in the rotation. Period. End of discussion.
So what to do with Galarraga? He deserves to stay in the rotation. But he's the only starting pitcher who's not being paid a boatload of cash. The contracts, and for that matter, track records, of Kenny Rogers, Nate Robertson, Jeremy Bonderman, Justin Verlander and Willis will keep them in the rotation. Again, end of discussion.
The question remains, what to you do with Galarraga, who's clearly out pitched his much more highly paid teammates? Do the Tigers send him down to Toledo, so he continues to pitch every 5th day? Move him to the bullpen, requiring someone else, likely one of the righties in the pen, to be sent down?
What will Leyland and Dombrowski decide? Your guess is as good as mine...
Carlos Guillen: He's a DH waiting to happen. Make it happen.
OK, that may be a knee-jerk thought, but Guillen's defense is becoming an increasing sore spot for fans, MSM and the Tigers alike. His bat demands you keep him as healthy as possible. His contract demands you play him as much as possible. How that is done (be it playing 1st base, 3rd base or as DH) needs to be determined, then set in stone.
Sheffield to the DL opens up several options regarding Guillen, specifically the DH one. you have to believe it's being discussed...
Brandon Inge: There's plenty of questions surrounding Inge as well. If Sheffield is benched/on the DL/released, would Guillen move to DH, and replaced at 3rd by Inge? As good as his glove is at 3rd base, Inge's bat (.221 BA, .696 OPS) just won't allow it. Not on an everyday basis, anyway. Is he going to be the full time catcher in 2009? His lack of offensive punch is more tolerable as a catcher.
The fate of Inge is another that could be affected by the Sheffield domino falling.
A change in the coaching staff: You know it has to be discussed. Both Chuck Hernandez and Lloyd McClendon may be on the hot seat. If Mike Ilitch is looking for a fall guy, hoping to shake things up, replacing the pitching or hitting coach would be a likely scenario. You can't fire the players. Coaches, on the other hand...
This is something Leyland may put his foot down on, and refuse to do. Draw the proverbial line in the sand. Which could lead to...
The future of Jim Leyland: You have to at least wonder what's going through Leyland's head. All we've heard from the Marlboro Man as of late is that he's at a loss. He doesn't have the answers. He doesn't know what else to do.
He sounds like a man at his wits end.
The meeting with Dombrowski could be of the "Come to Jesus" type. Leyland may be given an ultimatum. Things need to change, and change soon, or else.
I honestly doubt this would happen, but no one saw such a collapse by the Tigers coming either.
I'm interested in your thoughts, so feel free to add your take as to what may happen today in the comments!
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Comments
Rusted Iron Sheff
Sheff’s timing looks a little off… but then again, look at his month-by-month splits from last year: .200 in April, .321 in May, .337 in June. He needed time to work through his shoulder injury and “tear the scar tissue” in his shoulder. I’d like to see him get a chance to work through this, but at the same time, we have to start winning NOW if we’re going to get back in this race. In the end, I’d say put him on the 15-day DL, have Guillen DH, and Rayburn can take turns between 3b and LF, rotating with Inge, Thames, and Joyce.
by WildElliot on May 19, 2008 2:45 PM EDT 0 recs
I hate to say it
Because I REALLY like Leyland. I think he did wonders for the Tigers. But when the manager is at a total loss, well, what’s he doing? Setting the lineup and guessing when to pull pitchers? If that’s all he’s doing, then he’s pretty replaceable. If he can’t motivate the team, what’s the point of being the manager? Maybe it’s time for someone more “Lou Pinella”-ish. Someone who will throw a temper tantrum on the field on a regular basis. Cause it sure doesn’t seem as though anyone else is getting very emotional right now.
by pfuhrmeister on May 19, 2008 3:44 PM EDT 0 recs
pitching coach woes?
I really don’t know how much credit the tigers pitching coach deserves for the development of pitchers over the past 5 years (and honestly, I don’t even know if he’s been around that whole time), but there’s an article on espn today about Verlander and Bonderman, questioning the whys of their woes, and it points to mechanical issues, the type of thing that should be addressed by a pitching coach.
Maybe a new hurling guru might be the thing to straighten out those two guys, who knows? Thing is teh ATigers woes go way beyond a single issue fix, the starters aren’t pitching well (and the one who is is the odd man out as Big Al points out), and the hitters aren’t hitting much of anything….what was supposed to be a thousand run Tigers offense has been shut out 7 times, and it isn’t even May 20 yet.
by ahtrap on May 19, 2008 4:36 PM EDT 0 recs
Changes
I still think the majority of the changes need to be in the player domain. I guess I’d be open to a new pitching coach, in fact to me that job would be perfect for Pudge, though not till next year. I’m willing to give Leyland the benefit of the doubt for a couple seasons. I think they pulled the plug too early on Tram and I’d hate to see them do that again with Leyland. It is really tough for me to be objective in these types of discussions.
by busta on May 19, 2008 6:12 PM EDT 0 recs
Only two changes
The primary topic will be Sheffield and what to do with him. I honestly don’t know, since no one but Gary can know what his shoulder feels like. Maybe a 30 day DL and a trip to Lakeland with Zoom and Rodney would do him good. It would also let us see if Joyce can play every day, or if he’s a two-week flash in the pan (also a possibility).
The other topic will be Galarraga and Willis. DD may insist on D-Train, but I get the sense that Skip will fight that tooth and heater.
I don’t think Leyland should go anywhere. My only issues with him are big ones-what in the world was going on at Spring Training and what is up with all of these push-button reactionary moves? The second one I can sort of understand, as desperate people do desperate things. But the big issue to me is that this team was obviously not ready to go on March 31st, and they hoped they could tread water until the jets kicked in on the offense. Oops.
Something’s gotta turn, and fast. But I don’t buy the nonsense that these guys aren’t trying. I was in AZ to watch this weekend, and if anything, I think they are trying too hard.
by rook34 on May 19, 2008 7:48 PM EDT 0 recs
My suggestion
They say a change is as good as a rest, well I think that’s true here. In my view, the offense has been the problem.
Throw out the 3 games of pounding on the Rangers, and they’re scoring 3.75 runs a game, and have been shut out 7 times. Their pitching has a lousy ERA, but the biggest problem is that the Tigers are never comfortably ahead. That means every pitcher is pretty much always pitching in high leverage, no margin for error situations. Zack Miner is fine as a 2 inning guy when you’re up by 6. His shortcomings are exposed when you have to put him out there in the 7th during a close game, because EVERY game is a close game and the good bullpen arms, (Cruceta?, Jones?, Seay?) can’t pitch every day.
So like I said, I think the pitching, while it hasn’t been good, is the lesser problem. I think they should radically shake up the offense. Run some crazy lineup out there that shakes everyone up. Here’s what I propose:
Carlos Guillen
Placido Polanco
Magglio Ordonez
Miguel Cabrera
Matt Joyce
Pudge Rodriguez
Edgar Renteria
Gary Sheffield
Curtis Granderson
Guillen has got some quicks on the basepath, if not being a basestealer, so he’s fine at the top. Polly is a good #2. They say put your best hitter at #3, that’s probably Maggs. Cabrera hit cleanup in Florida, mayybe he’ll be more comfortable there. Joyce has been hot, move him up. The last 4 are kind of interchangeable, they’ve all struggled to varying degrees. Putting Sheff then Grandy at the bottom gives you the so called “second leadoff hitter” down at the bottom of the order.
The effect of batting order is small anyway, and a lineup this different might shake something loose on this offense.
by ThaWalrus9 on May 19, 2008 10:47 PM EDT 0 recs
Galarrockin'
Whether or not Leyland deserves to be fired the bigger issue is “then what?” Who’s gonna coach then? McLendon? Hernandez? I think not. And there isn’t a Lou Pinella waiting in the wings somewhere. Leyland is who we got and we have to stick with him.
Although the reminders that this team was “not ready” for the season are troubling, he’s probably doing about the best he can at this point. A lot of these games we’ve lost because A. these guys are poor fielders and B. they’re probably one of the slowest teams in the AL. There’s absolutely nothing Leyland can do about that. He can’t give them better range, he can’t make them faster and he can’t turn Maggs’s grounders into line drives when guys are on base.
Even the hitting woes are hard to pin on him. What is Jim Leyland going to teach Miguel Cabrera or Magglio Ordonez about hitting? Nothing. Leyland has to make sure they’re ready to play. Everything at the plate is their business.
Hernandez is another issue only because it seems like all the pitchers are having the same problems. I don’t know much about the guy but it’s possible that he may not be able to adapt to the needs of all these young pitchers.
As far as moves are concerned Sheffield either has to be released or go on the DL. One would think that he is professional enough to know when he’s toast and retire, but I think $14m could make anyone unprofessional. Matt Joyce should simply be given the LF job. He’s too good a defender to use at DH and while he may cool down a bit at the plate, his .167 BABIP suggests that he may even get better. Joyce has overachieved at every level of his development and the fact that he’s only struck out 3 times in 33 PA’s might mean that he’s going to do it again.
Ideally I’d like to see Miggy go back to 3B, Guillen placed at DH and Jeff Larish get a shot at 1B, but that won’t happen. Nonetheless, bringing up the kid who apparently has nothing left to prove in AAA to bat DH wouldn’t be a terrible move either.
Galarraga should go to the pen. He’s generally struggled after 80 pitches suggesting he wouldn’t be a great option in the rotation anyway. Nonetheless, he’s done enough do remain on the team while Miner’s star has fallen quickly. Not only would Galarraga be a good long-relief option, but we could also use him as a swingman and maybe skip Kenny and his 43 year old arm every now and then.
Total batsh*t wildcard: Trade Pudge. If Inge can tolerate catching, make him a catcher. There’s basically no way Pudge is getting resigned next year, so we might as well get something for him. I’d love to trade Renteria too and give Santiago and Michael Hollimon a kind of platoon, but that’s even less unlikely than trading Pudge.
Don’t jump all over that last one, it’s more of a food for thought type deal than anything else.
by MacRae on May 19, 2008 11:17 PM EDT 0 recs
Puttin ball on bat...
Entering this season, we all knew what the Tigers were. A mediocre pitching rotation with an amazing offense that would score 1000 runs!!! (remember those talks?) Well, this utter lack of hitting is clearly not only getting into the players heads, but also into the minds of these pitchers.
Imagine starting a game, and KNOWING that you are expected to pitch 7 to 8 innings (due to a proclaimed weak bullpen) and give up no more then 2 runs. Thats enough pressure to get to any pitcher’s head, especially a bunch of 25 year old pitchers and an “its all on me” veteran like Kenny Rogers. And while none of our pitchers have pitched great (save for gallaraga) there have been at least a good 5+ games where the pitching was there and the hitting disappeared. This leads to circular negativity (sorry for the psycho babel) between the pitchers who can’t trust the hitters and the hitters who can’t trust the pitchers.
So with that precursor, here are my changes:
1) Put Sheffield on the 15-day DL (obvious move, that should’ve been done weeks ago).
2) Move Guillen to DH (easy to do when Sheff is moved)
3) Start Inge at 3rd and bring up Hessmen to spell him… the man deserves his shot at 3B.
4) Move Gallaraga to the bullpen (once willis comes back). He can’t stay in the starting rotation but he could also spell Rogers and Dontrele WIllis.
5) Change the lineup. I want to keep Granderson in that 1 spot, but move Cabrera to bat 3rd (keep polanco at 2nd), the rest of the lineup can stay the same.
My Problems with the Coaching:
1. Sheffield getting dragged out there still each game when he clearly is struggling. (nuff said)
2. What exactly is it that Chuck Hernandez and Lloyd McClendon do ? Cuz clearly they don’t have a clue as to how to coach these guys. and while I do believe partly it falls on the players, these coaches NEED to DO SOMETHING to get these guys out of the slump. Oh, and btw, check out Verlanders (and pretty much all the pitchers numbers) each year that Chuck has coached him… consistently getting worse.
3. Guillen can’t play the field, so either work harder with him, or move him to DH.
4. Leyland has ZERO passion of late. Anyone remember the last time he even came out to argue a call? And saying that you don’t know whats wrong with your team (for the past two weeks) is unacceptable, its your damn job to know whats wrong.
5. Give Inge EQUAL games at catcher as pudge (or close to it) if youre not gonna start him at 3rd. Hes our future catcher, treat him as such.
P.S. GO WINGS!!!!! GO PISTONS!!!! (gotta root for the playoff teams in Detroit ;) )
by Tigsfan on May 20, 2008 12:51 AM EDT 0 recs
catcher
If the Tigers start Inge for a majority of games at third base I think they’d need a fulltime backup catcher.
by MackAveKurt on
May 20, 2008 10:24 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Hessman
There’s a lot of love for ol’ Mr. Hessman on these blogs but there’s a pretty clear cut reason as to why he’s never spent substantial time in the bigs…He just isn’t that good. Since coming to the Detroit orgaization he’s displayed impressive power and last year was great. But when you look at any other stat aside from the HR totals, they reveal a guy who probably wouldn’t cut it as a starter in the majors.
2005 (1st year in Toledo): 28 HR, .214/.313/.436
2006: 24 HR, .165/.269/.406
2007: 31 HR, .254/.356/.540
In each of these years he’s averaged a strikeout in less than every 3 AB’s.
If ‘07 and this first 3rd of ‘08 were his career norm than he’d probably be in the majors by now. But with a .229/.300/.452 career in the minors one has to wonder if these past two seasons aren’t just the result of a hitter taking advantage of a league he’s been in for the last 5 seasons.
He’s basically the minor league version of Richie Sexson. I don’t know about you all but I don’t think Richie Sexson brings anything to a team, much less his AAA doppelganger.
by MacRae on May 20, 2008 1:36 AM EDT 0 recs
Where's Clete?
Clete Thomas did great while Grandy was on the DL, bringing him back up maybe be a good spark in the clubhouse. When it comes down to it though, we need to be a more fundmentally sound defensive club, and start swinging the bats, it isn’t out pitching. There wasn’t a game in Arizona that our starter didn’t pitch a jem.
Go Tigers
by Tony K on May 20, 2008 6:23 AM EDT 0 recs
Robertson
the idea that you can’t keep Galaragga in the roation because the other five have long term contarcts and “track records” is absurd. are we trying to win ball games here or massage people’s egos? the yankees took Mike Mussina out of the rotation for while last year (not a hall of famer but close). why can’t the tigers do the same? also, if you look at Roberston’s lifetime numbers he is a sub average starter. it’s starting to look like 2006 was a fluke (hopefully not for the whole team). obviously, he was awful last year.
Right now the tigers starting pitching staff is the worst in baseball- and that includes Galaragga’s numbers. In fact, in baseball prospectus the do calculations which show that right now we could be on our way to having one of the worst starting staffs in HISTORY! so why wouldn’t you keep the one guy has been good and who has been consistent? give me a break!
by cbm1723 on May 20, 2008 1:34 PM EDT 0 recs
To answer a few questions and add a couple of comments to this great comment thread...
In regard to the rotation, the Tigers made their bed in the past couple of off seasons when they gave long-term contracts to Bonderman, Robertson and Willis. For example, you don’t pay Nate Robertson $7 million a year, then move him to the bullpen. You just don’t do it. Middle relievers/set up guys just aren’t paid that kind of money.
Galarraga has pitched well, but his track record shows he’s an ordinary pitcher playing well over his head. He may continue to pitch extremely well, but his past performance says he’ll come back to earth. I want him on the roster, as you need to ride the hot hand as long as possible. i do like the idea of having him in the pen, available to spell the starters when needed. He’d essentially replace Miner, who has been awful.
Clete Thomas has struggled in Toledo. He’s hitting only .220, with 26 K’s in 26 games.
As for Hessman, he does have power to burn, but seems like a 4A player to me as well. Plus, he’s blocked by Guillen at 3rd, Caberra at 1st, and Sheff at DH.
I think we all agree Sheff needs to be placed on the DL. There’s no signs of it happening, unfortunately.
waynefontes.com sidelionreport.com
by BigAl on May 20, 2008 3:02 PM EDT 0 recs
Sheff/Guillen/Inge
I think if there is a ‘come to Jesus’, it’s going to include putting Sheffield on the DL. Which will indeed put Guillen at DH, and leave room for Inge to take back third base. Unfortunately, Brandon is weak at the plate, but then again so is just about everyone else in the line-up right now. I think Inge will get his wish and go back to third, and everybody will just have to hope he can at least provide sac bunt/fly/ground out services with a clutch hit or two thrown in now and again. There isn’t a lot of choice right now.
by pudgegirl on May 20, 2008 3:39 PM EDT 0 recs








