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Your 2009 Detroit Tigers: Brandon Inge

[Editor's Note: Promoted from the FanPosts.  John Kmiecik will be doing this throughout the offseason.  You can read his work at 2100 Woodward.]

Brandon Inge during batting practice prior to the August 25th game against the Angels

Brandon Inge during batting practice August 25th via Tigers superfan Allison Hagen

 

Brandon Inge is, without a doubt, a fan favorite in Detroit. With the organization since 1999 (entering the bigs in 2001) Inge is the longest-serving member of the squad. Inge was one of the most popular Tigers during the "Who's Your Tiger?" marketing campaign run by the Tigers for a few season. He also continuously scored well in FSD's player of the game text message polls no matter what his day at the plate or in the field may have gone.

Off the field Inge is a regular visitor to C.S. Mott Children's Hospital in Ann Arbor, MI where he regularly visits to talk with the kids there. TBS did a story about his efforts, especially how he helped touch the lives of two particular boys. Read on for the full review.

Star-divide

  Games RBI BA OBP SLG
April 21 18 .319 .447 .667
May 28 15 .235 .297 .412
June 28 19 .287 .376 .532
July 23 7 .182 .292 .312
August 28 9 .184 .234 .316
September/October 33 16 .197 .274 .287

 

2009 Notes

Inge played in his 1000th career game on April 13th in a 10-6 loss against the Chicago White Sox. Following his strong first half with 21 home runs, he was nominated to the All-Star Game in the Final Vote for the AL. Unfortunately he must have emptied the power tank on his way to the Home Run Derby, where he posted a big fat donut. The discerning Tigers fan probably saw this coming anyway, as he was a solid 4 inches shorter and 20 pounds lighter than any other Derby contestant.

On a Monday night in Anaheim this year, Inge wandered into a tattoo shop and had his son's names boldly added down each of his forearms. The memory that will be burned into Tiger's fans' heads for some years to come will be his phantom HBP in game 163 against the Minnesota Twins, which if called, would have forced in a run to give Detroit the lead at the top of the 12th inning.

OFFENSE

April

Inge started off the season with an absolute smash. After making some adjustments to his batting stance in the off-season, he came out firing and as a result posted his highest average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage of the season. Anyone posting in GameThreads or following the Tigers closely at the time could tell you that Inge was a sigh of relief at the plate considering how his 2008 had gone.

I remember mentioning to my co-workers that he was on pace for 162 home runs as he went yard in the first 3 games of the season. He sported a 1.114 OPS for April, which was just shy of Albert "IBB" Pujols' OPS of 1.132 in the same span. He gained a great deal of plate discipline as his K/BB ratio plummeted to 1.07, just under half his 2008 ratio of 2.18. His biggest game of the month game on April 12th when the Rangers came to town. He led off the inning by hitting a 2-0, no out dinger to deep right. By the time he cycled back to the plate the Tigers had tied the game 4-4 and his sharp ground single to center allowed Cabrera and a pinch-running Anderson to score for the eventual final of 6-4.

May

May was "crash back to Earth" month for Inge. Both his OBP and SLG were 200 points off his April pace, and his batting average dropped over 80 points. This was the Inge that Tigers fans have known for years on offense. In 28 games this month, Inge posted a donut in 11 of them. He struck out a staggering 31 times to only 7 walks, cranking his K/BB ratio to a sky-high 4.42. His May was relatively unremarkable, except against a 13-1 slaughtering of the Royals on May 25th at Kauffman Stadium. Inge was 3 for 6 in that game, plating Ordoñez and Cabrera in the top of the third to open up the scoring on a single to left. He continued in the fifth to load the bases for Clete Thomas and eventually himself came around to score. His third hit was an otherwise unremarkable single to left.

June

June fared a bit better for the beloved 3B, with season-high RBI and an average that gained 50 points over his dismal May. Inge played long ball 6 times in June, helping crank his slugging percentage closer to where his season began. His K/BB ratio came back under control similar to his career numbers, showing some regaining of plate discipline on display early in the season.

On June 7th against the Angels, the Tigers were quickly down 3-0 after the top of the first with Porcello on the mound. In the bottom of that inning, Inge was up with 2 outs and bases loaded. He lined the 0-1 pitch from Saunders to right allowing Polanco and Ordoñez to score, keeping the Tigers in the game for their eventual 9-6 win. In a rare Dontrelle Willis start 2 days later, Inge pulled a solo shot off Mark Buehrle and drew walks in back-to-back plate appearances en route to a 10th inning win.

July

If May was "crash back to Earth" then July has to be "drilling a hole to the center of the Earth" for Inge. Even with the All-Star break shortening his service by 5 games this month, his RBI count was the lowest of the season at just seven, stranding 15 runners in scoring position and another 12 standing at first for his longest RBI-less streak of the season at 13 games. His batting average fell 100 points and an on-base percentage 84 points. Even with these poor numbers, the slugging percentage clearly stands out here -- 3 home runs and 1 double this month led to a 220 point drop in power.

The explanation of this poor performance was the patellar tendinitis Inge had played through all season finally catching up to him. This issue wasn't exactly a state secret among Tigers fans, but hadn't gotten much press until Inge's numbers took this drastic dive. Lynn Henning (please, control your booing and hissing) quoted Leyland as being "worried about Inge…very concerned."

Inge, on the other hand, shrugged off the skipper's concern. Chris Iott quoted Inge saying "if [head athletic trainer Kevin Rand] said, 15 days and you're never going to feel it again, you'll be as good as new, I'd [go on the DL]." However Rand had advised Inge that a short DL stay likely wouldn't help, leading Inge to play through the pain in order to help the team. The result of that decision is questionable with his July numbers being what they were.

Many BYB faithful will remember staying up until 1am Eastern in the early morning of July 4th watching the 16 inning affair at The Infernal Hellhole in Minnesota. Inge didn't do much of anything this game offensively, but he did manage to get hit by a pitch in back-to-back at bats. 2 of his 3 home runs this month came on July 12th at Comerica, in a 10-1 shellacking against the Indians.

August

Inge's injuries certainly continued to plague him in August, mustering only 2 more RBI. His average up only 2 points, his on-base percentage dropped a further 58 points while his slugging climbed 4 points on the back of an extra home run compared to July. His K/BB ratio was the highest this month than the rest of the season, at 6.60 as he struck out 33 times and walked only 5 times (1 intentional, Eric Wedge apparently knew that Dusty Ryan was hitting even worse than Inge).

Perhaps the biggest story with Inge in August was his sudden trip to the tattoo shop, partially visible in the photo above. Allison Hagen has more shots from the Angels game Inge first appeared in with his new ink over on her Flickr page for the game, if you want to get a better look. Leyland was quoted bemoaning Inge's trouble at the plate but noting the jam he was in, "don't know what the hell I'm going to play at third" if he were to try to give Inge some time off.

Even with the bad news going on for over a month with Inge, the shining point of his season came on August 14th against the Royals in Detroit. Zack Greinke had gone 7 innings allowing only 3 hits; Jarod Washburn had gone 8 innings also allowing only 3 hits. In the bottom of the ninth following a Marcus Thames strikeout, Inge pulled the 2-1 delivery from Roman Colon into deep left field for a walk-off victory and the only run in the game. 6 days later when the Mariners came to town, Inge helped drive in the bottom of the 9th rally. He sacrificed to deep center, allowing Guillen to score and on an error allowed Cabrera to reach third. The following at bat, Clete Thomas drove Cabrera in for his second walk-off hit of the year.

September/October

September offered some minor improvement for Inge, hitting better with RISP as his RBI count came close to what he did at the beginning of the year. His average and OBP nudged up while slugging fell off a bit as he only went yard twice. His slugging could have been worse but Inge doubled 5 times this month, after hitting 11 all season prior.

On September 6th, the Tigers visited Tropicana Field and the Tampa Bay Rays. Down 3-1 in the top of the 9th, Inge powered a 2-2 pitch from Russ Springer to deep left field for a grand slam to give the Tigers a 5-3 lead and an eventual win after Brandon Lyon had a 1-2-3 bottom of the 9th. Inge also had a hand in the September 30th win over the Twins and Carl Pavano after a liner to left-center field for a double plated both Cabrera and Ordoñez in the bottom of the second to tie the game 2-2. Santiago's single to center plated both Guillen and Inge, good enough for the eventual 7-2 win.

These 2 games aside, this span wasn't remarkable for Inge. In the month of October Inge only had 2 hits in 19 at-bats. Inge did play an important part in game 163, as his line drive to left plated pinch-runner Don Kelly in the top of the 10th to give the Tigers a 5-4 lead.

  Games Innings Errors Fielding % RF/9 UZR/150 Batting Value Fielding Value
Season 161 1387.0 20 .955 2.75 6.6 -7.9 8.5


DEFENSE, VALUE AND THOUGHTS

Inge's most rabid supporters have consistently claimed that his fielding prowess outweighs his offensive shortcomings. In 1387.0 innings of service this season, Inge only committed 20 errors for an error every 69.35 innings good for his lowest rate at 3B since 2004.

Dave Cameron's calculations put Inge's defensive value at 8.5 runs above the league average 3B while his offense falls 7.9 runs short. Only 8 3B in the league had a better fielding value than Inge (min. 100 PA) while 45 did better offensively.

Meanwhile Casey Blake, the 3B for the Dodgers, had a defensive value of 8.4 runs and an offensive value of 13.5 runs. So, could the Tigers do better offensively and keep the defense relatively steady? Absolutely. Blake even cost $1.9m less than Inge did this season. It's too late with Blake, as he's locked up until 2011 (2012 club option) and would demand north of $18m in free agency. Inge's UZR per 150 games for 3B has been steadily falling since his phenomenal 2006 campaign. Only time will tell if the off-season will be kind to Inge's knees, and he can recover some of that range that Inge fans missed this season.

It's difficult to put a quantitative number onto a position that is qualitative by nature; excellent measurements for talent, prowess and field awareness simply don't do a player justice sometimes. However if you're a believer that defense wins divisions you will probably land on the side that Inge is worth what we're paying him for what we're getting out of him.

However, those that believe Inge's failing bat has much to do with the Tigers' woes this season would probably like to see Inge return to his April form or even have him replaced. Kurt from Mack Avenue Tigers opined on this in my initial season review post when this same discussion came up. Kurt argues that Inge's value is placed at $11m for this season, while he only made $6.3m. He gets a bump next year to $6.6m which if you buy into this measure of value means we'll be getting Inge at a steal. I'll admit, after writing this review I sit on the fence. The numbers from 2009 speak for themselves and I have to wonder what his future is beyond his contract that expires at the end of next season.

What do you think? Is Inge worth it at 3B, or should the Tigers pursue a better bat after 2010? Do you believe Inge's season was as bad as the numbers make them out to be? Please leave your comments below about Inge or this review series. Up next: Magglio Ordoñez.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.

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He is who we thought he was!

I am fine with his bat, as the fielding is top notch….the problem sets in when you look at the bottom 3-4 in the line up. Although that bottom three carried the team the first couple of months, there is just too much lacking. If we had a SS or C that could really hit the ball it wouldn’t be so glaring.

What else can they do next year though? Nobody will take Inge in a trade (and I don’t want to see him go!).

"Without deviation from the norm, 'progress' is not possible."

by Zappatista on Oct 12, 2009 12:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Talk of a platoon at 3B would crop up occasionally

Though I don’t know how I feel about this. Inge plays at his best when he’s a full-time player (see: 2005-2007, .251/.319/.420 20 HR per 160 games) so I think whoever the 2nd half of the platoon is would have to post some major offensive numbers… and whoever that is, will not be pleased with posting those numbers and being stuck in a platoon.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Raburn as supersub

Come on, I’m gonna say it until I’m blue in the face.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But does Raburn's offense make up for what Inge would lose?

Believe me, I’m a big believer in RR being a future power for this team but I don’t know that he belongs at 3B. I think I’d rather see him play left, without looking around at data.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There really isn't a lot of data

I think he’d be passable there (at least enough to give Inge some time off).

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm interested to see if we're going to have a 3B competition come March

Certainly wouldn’t hurt to at least start thinking about an Inge-less future.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two words: Mat Gamel

of course Detroit would have to trade some sort of pitcher they don’t want to give up, because that’s what Milwaukee is asking for. It’ll never actually happen.

But very soon there’s going to be an even worse problem at 3B.

by Kurt Mensching on Oct 12, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mat Gamel is an excellent choice

He’s shown quite a bit of promise in the minors, decent enough power numbers. If the Tigers go after him, when do they do it? Now, or in 2010 if he’s still available?

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do you mean, Kurt?

No Inge after 2010? Think he’s gone?

by rook34 on Oct 12, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Depends on the contract he asks for

We can’t keep him around at $6m/season like this forever. It might be a bit early though, he could improve in the off-season with his injuries and keep showing stellar defense for another couple seasons.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That gets a BIG TIME PASS from me. Mat Gamel is doubly worse at 3rd base than Ryan Braun is/was. If anyone remember Braun from his rookie year in Milwaukee at the hot corner, he was awful. UZR had him posting -23.7 runs in just 112 games/945.1 innings. That is -35.5 runs over 150 games. Gamel’s minor league defensive numbers have been just as bad (or worse) than Brauns.

if we’re dealing for anyone from Milwaukee, it’s JJ Hardy or bust, please.

by Mike Rogers on Oct 12, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

isn't this the place a good saber points out

that whole thing about UZR, sample size and minor league defensive stats unreliability?

by Kurt Mensching on Oct 12, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scouting trumps stats in the low minors

And they’re about even in the high minors. He’s got the arm for 3B, but his range just doesn’t fit the position. Mat Gamel is not a major league third baseman.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you referring to Braun? If so, he was never regarded as good. I can’t remember which guy it is, but I believe the wrap was that Braun could handle it but was just a terrible thrower of the baseball where as Gamel is an awful defender in the other aspects, but I’ll have to look it up.

Gamel’s defense in the minors (you have to click on defense in the right corner) has been:

-12 in 287 chances in 2006 at West Virginia
-23 in 324 chances in 2007 at Brevard County
-2 in 332 chances in 2008 at Nashville
-5 in 97 chances in 2009 at Nashville

Those aren’t prorated to 150 games, those are the raw TotalZone numbers that were created by Sean Smith.

Now, huge caveats as defense is skeptical unless we’re taking 2-3 year samples at the major league level, it’s doubly that at the minor league level. Still doesn’t bode well for Gamel. He was essentially average at 3rd in Milwaukee this year, though.

by Mike Rogers on Oct 12, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

naw, I was actually just busting your chops

because that’s the kind of line a sabermetricly minded folk would use in a debate, so I do enjoy getting to turn it around on ya!

by Kurt Mensching on Oct 12, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, haha. I obviously missed that, Kurt. But, I did enjoy it. It made me double-check my facts/argument.

by Mike Rogers on Oct 12, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not good defensivley

And he’d cost Jackson.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about that reality?

Do we move Jackson? Can we move Jackson with what we’ve got in-system for starting pitchers?

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No and no

E-Jax is a solid #2 with potential for growth- you lock that up longterm.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nate had injury issues

He was also a 27 or 28 year old third/fourth starter with peripherals going in the wrong direction.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Take the injury into account

I wonder if that affected his change at the plate. If it did, we can toss out a lot of information.

I still think Inge can hit .260-.270 with 20 HR.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

when I think back on the year it’s easy to track his decline and see that it came with his worsening knee injuries. if it weren’t for those, I think he definitely would have kept up a .260 average, easily. sometimes you could see in his face when he’d swing how much he was hurting.

by allikazoo on Oct 12, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Inge is a career .236 hitter

I think this year could have been phenomenal for him, comparable to 2004 and 2006, if not for his knee injuries. Looking over his last three seasons (2006-2008, tossing 2009 for injury reasons) I just don’t know if he’s got another potential year like that in him to come.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I truly don't know what to expect

He was having a career year, so definitely can’t expect that. Interestingly, you can actually track his peak numbers to the very series he was injured during: in June vs. the Cubs.

He did make changes to his swing and it did seem to be paying off. So I think I’d expect something above his career averages but below where he was hitting in June.

Probably slot his numbers in closer to 2005-06 going forward, if the knee is actually healthy next year. You’d expect some decline from those based on his age, but maybe the changes he made during the last offseason will counteract it some.

by Kurt Mensching on Oct 12, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If Inge returns to 2006 form, I'd be ecstatic

He was a key part in the 2006 drive to the WS, and it certainly would be nice to have that again.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

with the defense he plays all he has to do is hit about .230-.250 & smack around 20 HR’s, anything better is just gravy

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 12, 2009 3:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Inge should be on the bench

People here think web-gems = great D. Fact of the matter is that he’s above average defensively but offensively, at a power position, he’s darn near worthless. He’s always had hot and cold streaks and it’s ridiculous how people look past the fact that he complains constantly about one thing or another, always making excuses.

I think what he does for the community is great, and I think he’s rightfully a fan favorite because he does work hard. But he just doesn’t have it. He should be a super utility guy, like a Raburn, while we’ve got someone at 3rd who’ll commit the same 20 errors but also hit at least .280.

I just personally can’t stand Inge the player because he’s constantly whined about those knees. If he was hurt so bad people, he would have sat. Or Leyland would have sat him. Clearly it just wasn’t that bad. He didn’t want to hurt the team, but each time he came to the plate, he was basically an out the last 3 or 4 months.

I could rant about Inge all day but I know it’ll tick people off. Magglio didn’t complain once, though Boras did, Maggs kept his mouth shut. Polly never blamed his year on anything. Guillen never opened his mouth, just to say he can’t bat right handed so that he wouldn’t hurt the team. Jackson was tired but never once complained, because he wanted to pitch. Yet day after day, Inge and the media had to make it well known he was injured and that was the reason for his follies.

And to anyone who says his D makes up for his O – unless he commits only 5 errors all year, he better hit at least .250 with power (30hrs) if he’s going to commit the most errors amongst 3B in the AL. 20 Errors is a short stop number, not a 3B. ridiculous.

OK, rant over. Keep up the good community work Inge and realize your greatest use would be a bench player or catcher! Be smart DD, go get Chone Figgins.

by KidRick48 on Oct 12, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Inge in UZR

See here.

He’s been between 6 and 8 runs better at 3B every year he’s played there except his first. Inge is, without a doubt, a solid to above average Major League 3B, and I’m beginning to think he’s underrated because of his injury this year.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As Kurt pointed out in the original review thread

Inge’s “worth” was $11m this season, and we paid him $6.3m. Saying he’s worthless in any regard is doing a huge discredit.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the injury was such a big deal...

Then why the heck was he not on the DL. His average was below .200 every month he had his knees bugging him. Where is his time off to actually help the team? Trust me, he hurt them by being out there. And 20 errors is not even close to the amount he truly committed. Amazing how many plays he makes, yes. Stupid how many simple plays he botches. I’ll take the good with the bad and wish for a mediocre fielding 3B who’s letting one or two runs in under the average but batting .280 and driving in runs in the clutch.

And don’t give me his “Mr. Clutch” nickname. Incredible how that even sprouted up, it’s totally unwarranted. With men on, he was awful in the 2nd half. With no one on, he managed to do damage, absolutely.

by KidRick48 on Oct 12, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

Injury was a big deal for the bat but he was still able to field. We had no replacement 3B and we don’t have one on the farm.

Also, the clutch argument is ridiculous and merits no time.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The clutch argument is huge

Because what is .300 if it’s an empty .300? I’ll take a guy who drives in runs but hit’s .250 (Which is what Huff was supposed to do) instead of a .300 hitter who hits when no one is on (see Tony Clark)…

There had to be someone who can field 3B averagely while hit at least .250. That difference of .60+ points those last 3 months could have been huge. Inge, yes, makes his great plays and is solid. But I have a hard time believing he saved more games then he could have won with the stick.

by KidRick48 on Oct 12, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He hits 7th or 8th

He hits almost 30 HR and gets 84 RBI in 2009, and you’re still complaining? Those are horrible measures, but I think we can all agree that the guy hitting SEVENTH isn’t going to get as many RBI chances as the guys hitting 3, 4, and 5.

And the numbers show he saved more runs and games than he lost with the stick. So fail.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defending him with offense?

You aren’t seriously going to try and defend his offensive performance are you?
2nd half:
.186 BA/.260 OBP/.281 SLG.
49 H w/85 K.
6 HR & 26 RBI in 263 AB.
10 extra base hits in his past 55 games.
He started this season as a .239 career hitter. Its lower now.

The world's greatest wiffle ball tournament! TheFatty.com

by rings on Oct 13, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was injured

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Inge’s first half offensively went extremely well, and is up there with one of the best first halves of his career. His knees broke down, of course his numbers fell off. I think I covered that pretty heavily in the article.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 13, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

knees, schmees.

And I would submit that the “knee” nonsense is just that: nonsense.

Everyone plays hurt and in watching nearly every game either live or on the telly, I saw no hindering movements from him, aside from stretching his legs and makings sure the beats were aware of it. He ran well, dove for balls, charged bunts, checked his swing, etc.
The fact is, his first half was a mirage. He has a hot streak every year, but always returns to norm, in this case, by setting his career high for K’s. Its been this way since he played at West Michigan. You’re basically asking us to base his valuation on the best 60 days of his career – mainly because the ball was going over the fence at an abnormally high rate over that period.

The world's greatest wiffle ball tournament! TheFatty.com

by rings on Oct 13, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah,

Not everyone plays with torn tendons in their knees.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

But not all tears are hindering. He’s not a hockey player, he’s just got to find a way to extend his knees to hit and throw. If he can plant and gun with that cannon of an arm, he sure as hell should be able to swivel on those knees and hit the same that he did in the first half.

Rings is right, the first half truly was a miracle. He was sitting on a lot of FB’s and getting a lot of FB’s to crush. Occasionally he got an offspeed pitch, was out and front, and pulled it. I’ll give him credit for his first half but he’s no Miggy. There’s no pure talent here – just a guy who’s a mediocre hitter who barely makes contact when he needs to (see game 163, extra innings).

by KidRick48 on Oct 13, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah

He’s just got to extend his knees… the ones with torn ligaments. That can’t be hard at all.

Please. Swing mechanics can be affected by the slightest of injuries.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 14, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I heard it numerous times this year

especially at Detroittigers.com. There was a whole article about it.

by KidRick48 on Oct 13, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's great

And that argument has absolutely zero bearing here, as this isn’t detroittigers.com it’s blessyouboys.com. You started complaining about an argument that didn’t even get brought up here. That’s not proof in your favor, that’s proof that your argument has flaws.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 13, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was written about in the freep

I’m sorry for bringing in legitimate news sources instead of BYB to make a point. I should just cite the damn things, my bad.

by KidRick48 on Oct 13, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, you should.

You’re a really, really crappy troll. You’re making an argument here, primarily against two people (myself and demondeaconbaseball) and saying that you’ve heard it numerous times this year… at places outside of this argument, and the scope of your side of the story.

I’m done now. Please, direct your rage elsewhere.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 14, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait... what?

You say he’s average defensively, but he ranks eighth among 64 other third basemen this season (min. 100 PA) at defensive value. 2004 aside, Inge’s UZR has always been positive with last season being his worst.

I don’t understand the “inge constantly whined about those knees” line. It’s not like Inge pulled a Gary Sheffield and loudly announced to the media how sad he was, or how hurt he was. Reporters (rightfully) would ask him how his knees were, and he would answer. The two articles I linked to in my review were indicative of that, I believe.

And you want Chone Figgins? Figgins made $5.7m this season, and will probably want a raise next season. He also hit .298/.395/.393 this season with only five home runs (31 in his career). He probably peaked in 2007 but his career OPS is .751. Inge’s career OPS is .735, not that big of a difference between the two — and he’s hit 108 home runs since seeing full playing time at 3B. If you sign Figgins next year, you’re just going to pay Inge $6.6m for what? Another Gary Sheffield situation? Yeah, I guess we aren’t paying enough players a ridiculous amount of money right now not to play baseball.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus

Inge actually took the field virtually every single day- he fought to get on the field when he should have been taking rest days. Calling Brandon a whiner this year is blatantly unfair.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He whines to the media

to get the attention and sympathy. They ask how he is, he says not good but “he’s going to play through it” and goes out there, we watch him hobble down first or wince doing something, and he loves it. It gives him an excuse when he looks at the 2nd half to say why his production fell. We all knew why, it was his “knees.” Forget the fact that he should have noticed, say, after a month, that he should be on the DL – no way, he wants to play. That bat was cold as ice and hurt us more then his D helped. He was batting 6th most nights and the amount of men he left on after Guillen or Maggs the #5 hitter was ridiculous.

He should have been on the bench and was not. I blame Leyland for not having the guts to sit him and putting someone at 3B. Doesn’t Don Kelly play 3B? Santiago? Damn there were options that would have hit at least .200.

by KidRick48 on Oct 12, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please start linking evidence at this point

We’re obviously having a very difficult time believing you with the whining to the media thing. Repeating it isn’t going to make someone go “oh, yeah!” and agree with you.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 13, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

8th defensively

is exactly my point. People place him on a pedestal for his defense when 8th is hardly a spot to get overly excited about. I’m not going to lie, I don’t understand where you got 8th from, from your link, but I do know what I see – and it’s a streaky hitter who’s mediocre AT BEST with the stick, and above average (not great) defensively.

And he did whine, not boo-hoo whine, but to the media. I’m not one of the only people who feel this way, the man took every opportunity to bring up the knees if he could, especially when asked about it. If you’d like, I’d love to go digging for Inge knee quotes on my spare time later this week. And the media ate it up – every chance they got, they talked about his injury. During the 1 game playoff and even during other team telecasts. It was incredible how much coverage it got. Granted the media coverage isn’t his fault, but he should take the Magglio or Guillen route and shut it and play.

And yes, I would LOVE Chone Figgins. Give him 7 mil to come here to change the culture at 3B. The hell with HR’s, our team constantly tries to hit them and gets NOWHERE. Get a guy who can hit for average, can run, plays good D and leads off very well. Sizemore can be the #2 and Grandy can be #5.

Btw, I’d pay Inge 6.6 to play catcher, the position he SHOULD be at if he’s hitting .220. Oh, but he whined his way out of that one too. The man cries, the media listens, and Leyland bends over for him half the time. Amazing.

by KidRick48 on Oct 12, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again.

Start linking evidence for the media thing. That’s not an argument at all. First, you praised Inge for his off-field work at the hospital, then you turn around and keep smashing him for “whining to the media”. Everything I saw was simply “this is why Inge is struggling” and it certainly didn’t come off as whining to me.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 13, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Link fail.

But you get where I’m coming from.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 13, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Simply put: defense saves runs.

Defense generally doesn’t have down periods (slumps) and helps the offense and pitching by lessening their burden.

Having a mediocre defensive 3B means the offense and pitching has to pick up the slack from runs allowed. Inge is above average at 3B and comes up positive in what he brings to the ball club.

Because you have problems with some folks calling Brandon “Mr. Clutch” (never heard this) or your perception of him being a complete whiner does not mean Inge does not contribute to the team.

by 13194013 on Oct 13, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

UZR isn't everything

“Eighth” is pretty much average, especially in a 14 team league. He’s also led the league in errors every full season at 3B.
Contrast his defensive performant to Polanco’s stellar defense, which is nearly overlooked. He’s committed 10 errors, while playing a more difficult position, over the past THREE SEASONS (total 2119 chances). Brandon, on the other hand, has committed 60 (!!) errors over his past three full seasons at third (in 1432 chances). Polly, while respected, doesn’t generate nearly the passionate defense of his glovework that BI does.

As for whining,
Inge complained when Pudge took his job, as a .201 career hitter.
Inge complained when Miggy took his job, coming off a disappointing first year under his new contract.
Every broadcaster of a Tiger game mentioned his knees. TBS went so far as to call it a “devastating knee injury” during game #163. ESPN mentions it when they covered the Tigers. Jim Price mentioned it several times a week. Yet the man still ran fine, played defense fine and “checked” his swing fine.
Were his knees sore? Probably, but EVERYONE hurts in MLB over the course of the season. Stop using it as an excuse. Either sit down or suck it up. He stunk in the second half, no ifs, ands or buts.

Inge is not going to be back after next year at his current pay grade. He’s only a year removed from being offered around the league for a pack of chewing gum, without takers. The Tigers (and many of their fans) have consistently overrated his value, as evidenced in that contract. He’s an excellent athlete, and perhaps a nice guy, but he’s also been divisive, selfish (“I want to play third every day!” – hey, dude…everyone wants to play.) and a black hole in the lineup for much of his career. That said, he’ll still likely be back for 2010, to finish off his four-year deal.

Chone Figgins will probably not happen, due to cost (as you mention, he’ll likely get a raise), but he would solve several issues for Detroit: quality leadoff hitter (.395 OBP), excellent defense and more positional flexibility. Its up to the front office and Ilitch if the cost is worth it and they want to try to move players to make room or eat the salary, as they’ve done with other guys.

The world's greatest wiffle ball tournament! TheFatty.com

by rings on Oct 13, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you even read what you typed?

Comparing Placido Polanco to anyone else defensively is doing them a disservice. Polanco is one of the leagues premier defenders and few can compare to him.

Also, please read the following. You wrote this, and I added the emphasis.

Every broadcaster of a Tiger game mentioned his knees. TBS went so far as to call it a "devastating knee injury" during game #163. ESPN mentions it when they covered the Tigers. Jim Price mentioned it several times a week. Yet the man still ran fine, played defense fine and "checked" his swing fine.

So, since all of those people mentioned it when Inge was clearly 1) not on the field or 2) not being directly interviewed, it’s whining to the media? I suppose you think Scott Boras running his mouth about Ordoñez was nothing but whining coming from Ordoñez, right?

by john.kmiecik on Oct 13, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eighth in a 14 team league is average. However, the 8th in UZR is for the entire major leagues. So that point is moot.

If you don’t like the UZR debate, how about the Fans Scouting Report which is simply done by fans through watching their favorite teams play. Inge is 3rd best at the hot corner.

by Mike Rogers on Oct 13, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you for existing.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course I read it...

…its a disservice to compare to Polly. But reading some of you guys makes it sound as if Inge is the greatest of all time and the most important defensive player, blah-blah. Polly is better and much more valuable, yet receives a fraction of the love.

And where do you think all these “media” guys are getting their information? Inge was on the field (or walking back to the dugout). We haven’t had anyone since Sheffield try to excuse his performance by claiming injury. At least Sheffield had the decency to go on the DL.

Boras is trying to get his money and protect his client. That’s his job. Ordonez never complained in the papers about playing time. That’s just silly to compare.

UZR, Zone Rating, “FANS” Scouting Report (the same who voted him into the All Star game over Adam Lind)…there are metrics to support all views. 8th, 3rd…whatever. I’m merely saying the guy has underperformed and he’s completely overvalued for defense. He’s good, not great, because he’s inconsistent. And third base defense is just not very important in the grand scheme of things.

The world's greatest wiffle ball tournament! TheFatty.com

by rings on Oct 13, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What proof do you have that he's overvalued at defense

Because we’ve cited our numbers that him at $11.8 million dollars of value as just a glove.

Put up or shut up, buddy.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What proof?

Use your eyes. These numbers you all calculate are just theoretical numbers. If I had time, I’m sure I could come up with some formula that would prove otherwise. The truth is, you find equations and formulas in order to prove what you want proven.

I challenge you to find me numbers sir/ma’am that support my view. I’m sure they’re out there, since they’re plain as day. Please do – I’m not familiar with saber metrics at all. I just notice the amount of errors he makes and ridiculous amount of time’s he misses balls that steady old Mike Lowell would make look routine day after day.

by KidRick48 on Oct 13, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh those pesky numbers

UZR isn’t fuzzy math, it’s a formula designed by ppl who did what you said you might do to prove it wrong, only they did it better than you could

by The Nicker on Oct 14, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it seems obvious he's made up his mind and won't allow anything to change it

If I’m wrong, maybe he’ll ask for an explanation of how UZR or other fielding stats are measured and calculated so he can understand them better.

If I’m right, it’s no use bothering.

by Kurt Mensching on Oct 14, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just let this one die.

I’m sick of seeing “ohhh new comments!” and just coming back to see this moron stinking up the place.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 14, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look above. There’s a fans scouting report in which Inge has rated highly at 3rd base every single season.

by Mike Rogers on Oct 14, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he misses more balls because he’s got more range than the average third baseman? In getting to more baseballs, he’s giving himself more chances to commit and error.

If we have a group of three people shooting free throws and two shoot 25 and the third shoots 75, and they’re all non-NBA’ers, the third guy is most likely to have the most misses, because he’s taking the most chances. It doesn’t mean he’s the worst free throw shooter of the group.

If one goes:

18/20

Second one goes:

18/20

Third one goes:

72/80

That doesn’t make the third one the worst shooter. They all are at 90%. Yet, he’s missed more shots than the others.

by Mike Rogers on Oct 14, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I can't stand Polanco.

I own one Tigers jersey. It says POLANCO on the back.

No one, no one is claiming Inge to be the greatest 3B in existence. That title, at least this season, belongs to Evan Longoria.

Keep yammering though, whatever. I don’t know why we’re chasing this line into the damn ground, looking up for a second, then digging at the same damn thing.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 13, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, you ask for something that isn’t some math based thing and I give you just what fans see, and then that’s not good enough for you. Basically what you’re telling me is that there is no other side to the story and that you’re 100% correct.

Good to know.

I do like that you glossed over the fact that he’s 8th in the entire major leagues, not just in the AL, thus, again, invalidating your point. Although, that’s a metric made upon what an average fielder would do with the same batted ball type hit to him. Completely objective and the ONLY downfalls in UZR are:

1) it takes a long time to stabilize. So, if you’re projecting in the future, you need multiple seasons worth.

2) the batted ball type varies depending on the person recording the batted ball type.

Otherwise, the math is as good as possible given the inputs. I don’t know how you can argue against that, but whatever. Scouting isn’t good and objective numbers aren’t good. So you tell me what you’re looking for?

by Mike Rogers on Oct 14, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something that supports his opinion

Duh.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 14, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Brandon Inge

He is a very good 3rd baseman. Although, sometimes his offense is lacking, he makes up for it with his defense 10 fold. Like I said yesterday, I hope he always wears the Olde English D.

by Detroitchik on Oct 12, 2009 3:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We can go back and forth all day with stats

Brandon Inge might be one of the few “Tiger for life” players that we have on the team. In this era of free agency, I like to have players on teams that I can think of as only being in 1 jersey. Brandon Inge should be only playing in Detroit.

One thing I will say is that I can’t imagine getting rid of him after that video… You really can’t put a price on what he did for those kids.

As for my view on his play. For a 7th spot hitter, 30 homers is fantastic and I can live with a .240 average. His defense is fantastic. He had 20 errors, but he also gets to so many balls on the line and slow rollers that he takes away bases just as much, if not more, than he gives them away. Numerous times he’s had leaping catches and taken away doubles.

by actioncuse on Oct 12, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

plus errors are can be bad a bad defensive stat...

the amount of runs Brandon keeps from getting in should be an offensive stat for him. And yes, I said offensive stat.

by madpoopz on Oct 12, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not a 30HR hitter

20 is a more realistic expectation.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great job, John!

I’d like to see B.Inge in a Tiger jersey for his entire life, but somehow I don’t think a 90 year old would give us the kind of numbers that would support that idea.

by wepri31 on Oct 12, 2009 4:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I threw this out there on my blog in mid-July, but this is what I said:

Off the wall solution for the 2010 season:

Adam Everett is a free agent at the end of this year. He’ll likely get a raise where ever he goes — we got him on the cheap because fielding’s underrated and he was coming off an injury plagued couple of seasons. This leaves a hole that I do not want Ramon Santiago to fill on his own. Here’s where I come at you with some outside-the-box thinking: Brandon Inge to shortstop, Adrian Beltre to 3rd base.

If we let one of our Type -B free agents that walk at the end of the year (Rodney, Lyon?), we can essentially trade those picks for Adrian Beltre. Beltre’s hurt and I believe out for the season. So he’ll only drop on this list of Type-A/B free agents and he’s currently a Type-B. We can sign a Type-B and let a Type-B walk and those picks will cancel them out.

Follow me here. Inge is +37 in his career in runs saved at the hot corner. Lets say he finishes this season by saving a couple of more runs and gets to +10 runs saved defensively this season. His contributions would be: 7.8, 17.9, 9.8, 2.5, and 10 from 2005 through 2009. If you weight those at .05, .10, .20, .30 and .35 from oldest to most recent, we get a weighted average of 8.39 runs saved. However, if you throw out his 2008 score where he wasn’t a full time 3rd baseman, you weigh them at .1, .2, .3, and .4 you get a weighted average of 11.3 runs saved.

So, let’s call him a 10 run fielder at 3rd base. The positional adjustments for the Wins Above Replacement calculations are based on what a player who was an average fielder at a position would do moving to another position. For instance, a player who’s average at SS, would, based on historical data, be worth about 2.5 runs defensively at 3rd base. So if you’re moving from 3rd to SS and you’re an average fielder at the hot corner, we’d expect you to be about -7.5 at short.

So, if you hack off 7.5 runs from Inge’s total — but lets just call it 8 — you still get a shortstop who is worth 2 runs defensively. He’s got the athleticism and the arm.

Adrian Beltre is an elite hitter coming off a big injury. Add in a potential Type-B status and you’ve got a player that not many teams would be jumping at the chance of getting. Since signing his big deal with Seattle in 2005, he’s put up WAR numbers of 2.5, 4.6, 3.0, 4.1 from 2005 through 2008. This year, he was at 1.3 through 73 games. If you extrapolate that over just 140 games this year, he was on pace for a 2.5 WAR season again. Over 150 games that’d be 2.67 WAR.

I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibilites that Beltre could be had on a cheap, low risk deal. Say, something like 2 years, $15 million, with incentives due to his injured right shoulder.

Obviously, you only make this move by securing some sort of back-up plan at shortstop. If Beltre’s shoulder acts up again, Inge can slide back to 3rd base and the back-up plan could man short for the duration of Beltre’s injury.

I really don’t think it’s that crazy of an idea. It’s just an idea that Dave Dombrowski and company won’t be making.

It’s outside the box, to say the least.

by Mike Rogers on Oct 12, 2009 5:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's creative

I don’t know whether Inge would particularly like that switch, but I love Adrian Beltre, so I’d be willing to at least ask Brandon.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 12, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He played it in College and DD should be able to spin that he’d be playing a more crucial defensive position as “we think you’re this freakin’ good to take such a lauded position defensively” to get him over there. Though, that was before his knee(s) became a huge problem later in the summer, so I’m not sure how much his range would translate unless they’re 100%.

Also, he’s not getting any younger, so that doesn’t bode well.

by Mike Rogers on Oct 12, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brandon will basically play anywhere

I think we saw that last year where he played catcher even though everyone knew he wanted nothing to do with it.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well it didn’t come without some immense whining through the media.

by Mike Rogers on Oct 12, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But, still he did it

I can’t fault the guy for being a bit ticked when he was told at the start of the year he’d be the big time 3B going forward, then having to do that.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well it was either move or not play at all. So any player will play anywhere. Alfonso Soriano didn’t want to play the outfield, but he’s moved and stuck in LF (albeit, I believe he’s terrible out there but I haven’t checked the numbers), so Inge isn’t an overly do-anything-for-the-team type of guy. He either has to move when the team says so or they’ll find someone who will.

I like the value he gives the tigers and like all the things he does for Motts, but I don’t like his personality because I hone in on his whining the past for some reason (about moving positions, about getting “pitched like babe ruth” when he was refusing to make adjustments to his swing a couple years back, etc etc).

by Mike Rogers on Oct 12, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It never got a bunch of attention here . . .

But right before the All-Star break, Peter Gammonds said that he believed that Brandon Inge could’ve been a very good professional shortstop had he been allowed to come up through the system at the position. As we all know they tried to make him a catcher, and that’s out the window.

It was a really quick, almost off-the-cuff statement from Gammonds. He didn’t get a chance to back up fully, and I don’t want the argument to be “Peter Gammonds said he could do it, so obviously he can,” but I thought it was interesting to hear him say that. I’d like to hear the support for that argument, because he’s got a good one, I’m sure.

by TennesseeYooper on Oct 13, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm an idiot . . .

Gammons is not spelled the way I thought, and that makes me slightly slow. Apologies.

Also, I’d link to where I saw this, but can’t seem to find it. I was watching Baseball Tonight, and it was a comment Gammons made on that show.

by TennesseeYooper on Oct 13, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe you

It’s really, really hard to source stuff off Baseball Tonight. One of the things I hate about that show.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 13, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you think about it . . .

It’s on every night of the summer and has about 20 different renditions a day (hyperbole, but you catch my drift). Maybe, just maybe, it’s kind of hard to keep up with everything that’s said on that show.

I appreciate you taking my word for it ;-)

by TennesseeYooper on Oct 13, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read that article and, while I didn't comment, I thought the idea was interesting to say the least.

Inge could possibly have two years + left in him at shortstop while Beltre would be a great 3B pick up. I imagine having Beltre would actually shorten up the amount of ground Inge would have to cover (though Inge’s knees are still a massive question mark) and Beltre is not too shabby with the stick.

Beltre could also protect Cabrera in the line up. I think, though, that DD will sign Everett (for a raise but not a giant one) and we’ll have P-Squared thanks to him accepting arbitration (free Scott Sizemore).

by 13194013 on Oct 13, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Polanco won't accept arbitration

Scott Sizemore will be free!

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree. We probably wouldn’t lose (much) defense on the left side of the infield and would gain a better bat. I like the idea all around, but it won’t get tried at all.

by Mike Rogers on Oct 13, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What I found interesting about Beltre is many vocal people bought into the notion he stunk in Seattle.

Beltre was pretty solid for the M’s and his glove never faltered. I’d love to see him in a Tigers uniform but that’s just a pipe dream (like Shin Soo Choo patrolling right for Detroit).

by 13194013 on Oct 13, 2009 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, he definitely got a bad wrap by the general populous for not hitting 40+ homers in Seattle and just ‘cashing in on one good year.’

by Mike Rogers on Oct 13, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Tigers have a lot of problems, although they have some real strengths. If you rank the Tigers’ problems in order of urgency, though, Inge is not very near the top. If we have the money to buy Beltre, I’d rather spend it on a left fielder, and hope that time (or surgery) improves the state of Inge’s knees.

by rea on Oct 12, 2009 9:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Curiosity

What would you rank the Tigers’ top 5 weaknesses (and strengths) as?

by john.kmiecik on Oct 12, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tigers top 5.

Weaknesses:

1. Offense
-More consistency than anything else but the Tiger bats seem to be weak (though that may have been just bad luck in some cases)
2. Almost no team speed
-Station to station running of the bases means it takes a little more to score runs.
3. OF defense
-Magglio can’t play RF, Guillen can’t play LF and Raburn needs better judgment. Curtis seems to be regressing.
4. Bullpen
-Mixed bag; Miner-Rodney are/were nightmares but there does seem to be some promise in Ni-Perry-Fien
5. Back end of the rotation
-4 & 5 starters seem to be crap. Armando fell back down to earth fast and then it was more of a merry-go-round for starters. Dontrelle (despite my insane hopes) looks to be done as a MLB pitcher, Nate is a question mark, Bondi is also a giant what if and there doesn’t seem to be anyone else who merits discussion.

Strengths:
1. Front end of the rotation
-Jackson, Verlander, Porcello look solid, even if E-Jax looked gassed at the end of the year. Strong foundation for awhile.
2. Miguel Cabrera
-He’s a force and not to be trifled with.
3. Improved defense overall
- The emphasis on defense seems to be staying around and I doubt there will be much of a change in 2010.
4. Comerica
The Tigers home stadium suits them and they play very well there; don’t see this changing for the worse and I think DD understands what sort of players to bring into Detroit to take advantage of Comerica.
5. Younger players
-Contributions by Clete, Raburn, Avila, Ni, Fien, Perry, Porcello shows the Tigers aren’t afraid of using youth; possibly see Sizemore in 2010.

by 13194013 on Oct 13, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me give this a shot

Weaknesses
1. Offense: black holes at LF, C, DH, SS, 3B and to a lesser extent, 2B are bad, and I only see 2B, C and LF getting better (Sizemore, a little more Avila and Guillen).
2. OF defense: Maggs can’t field and LF seems to be a black hole of suck.
3. 4th and 5th starters: We don’t have anything approaching reliable 4/5 men.
4. Team depth: if anything happened to Inge or Granderson, we’d be hosed.
5. Age: Granderson, Cabrera, Jackson, Verlander, Porcello, Sizemore, Perry, Ni, Avila. Ladies and gentlemen, these are your building blocks for the future. Everything else is old and decrepit.

Strengths:
1. Starting Pitching: Verlander-Jackson is one of the best combinations in the game, and Porcello might just make this the Three Aces.
2. IF defense: Inge-Santiago/Everett-Sizemore/Polanco-Cabrera-Laird/Avila is damn good.
3. Cabrera/Granderson: two of the best hitters in baseball. Hands down.
4. Rick Knapp: A damn fine pitching coach.
5. Ownership: We couldn’t ask for better than Mike I.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like your strengths more than the ones I listed (mainly 4-5).

As far as weaknesses, seems we’re pretty much in agreement (Tigers LF scared the living heck out of me all season).

by 13194013 on Oct 13, 2009 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much on the weaknesses

I think I bogarted 3 of yours. :)

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Tigers problem with offense:

Is that they sacrificed too much of it for defensive purposes. Most teams have a 9-hole guy that blows, but is in the lineup for his defense. We have Inge, Everett and Laird. That’s an entire inning’s worth of places in the order sacrificed for defense.

by Elfuego51 on Oct 13, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So pick two to replace

Who stays? For the sake of this exercise, let’s pretend all three of their contracts are up now and will only get a 4% raise on a one year contract if they were to resign.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 13, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't replace any

Everett is a good, cheap option at short, nobody wants to phase Laird out in favor of Avila and Inge costs too much.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 13, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Inge stays

Everett is a decent shortstop, but by no means sets the world on fire. He’s middle of the pack as far as fielding. Now batting……..don’t need to say much, but I’m pretty sure I’ve read “Out #3 coming up to bat” when ever he steps to the plate. It would be tough not to find an upgrade at the plate with equal fielding talent.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Avila takeover for Laird, although I will say he must improve his ability to throw out runners. I think Avila had more clutch hits in his short time in the bigs than Laird did the whole season.

by Elfuego51 on Oct 14, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The obvious solution at C for 2010 is to keep Laird, but get Avila more big league at bats, with the idea of Avila becoming the regular in 2011. Keeping Laird fresher might make him a better hitter over the course of a season—I beleive his career is full of seasons that start off relatively well at the plate, but taper off toward the end. Get Avila 2 starts a week or so.

by rea on Oct 14, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Laird played in 100+ games over each of the last three seasons

2007 1st half: .230/.287/.339 — 2nd half .214/.263/.365
2008 1st half: .306/.360/.437 — 2nd half .242/.294/.354
2009 1st half: .241/.326/.364 — 2nd half .205/.238/.265
Career 1st half: .269/.331/.394 — 2nd half .224/.279/.338

The numbers certainly reflect that Laird falls of second half. In 2006, when he played in 78 games, his second half numbers looked similar to his 2008 first half.

I like this idea, and I hope the Tigers pursue it.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 14, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure why those years created links

Well, I do know why, but oops. They don’t go anywhere.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 14, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ROFL at "unclutch

Y’know my instincts (which, as the rational person knows, is not normally the best way to analyze a baseball player), told me that, even though Brandon Inge was atrocious in the second half, he still had some key hits.

As it turned out, Inge had a clutch factor of 1.25 this year, pretty, pretaaay, pretaay clutch.

Put clutch to bed, put this argument to bed, and worry about things that are worth worrying about, like a corner outfield and fifth starter.

by The Nicker on Oct 14, 2009 12:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Clutch factor?

That’s a Fangraphs invention, right?

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 14, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I should point out

I’m not being sarcastic, I just can’t remember where I heard about clutch factor.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 14, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Oct 14, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He did have some nice hits at key moments this year

I think I did a good job highlighting the big ones in my writeup.

by john.kmiecik on Oct 14, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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