Plate Discipline: The Detroit Tigers' Mantra Next Season?

Game 163 (small sample size, but it was like this more than not for him):

2-2 with a HR, double, and walk: 5 pitches, 4 pitches, and 7 pitches
0-3 when swinging at pitches early in the count (2, 3, 1 pitches)

I’m sure there are others who would definitely benefit, but this is one that I was thinking about specifically during that final game. Miguel has the type of talent where it might not matter when he decides to hit, but he’s so ADD that I think when he works the count, fouls balls off, takes pitches, etc., we know he’s being patient and focused. When he’s not, he gets out.

Maybe the Tigers weren’t swinging at enough first pitches

Cabrera, for example, hit pretty well. Obviously it gets better if the count makes it up to 2-0, but if there’s a quality control pitcher on the mound, you can’t assume it’s going to get there.

but when Maggs won the batting title he was retarded good on 1st pitches. Then the following year his BA tumbled 50 points, with his 1st pitch BA being the culprit. Not that BA means anything, but it was interesting to see how you could see cause/effect so starkly.

Oh, and yeah it sucks there’s no baseball until almost the weekend.

Seems like the organization went through this exact same exercise 3 years ago. Perhaps there should be a concerted effort to make this something that’s truly emphasized throughout the organization on a consistent basis, rather than talking about it only when it’s identified as a factor that caused the team to come up a bit short in a particular season after the fact.

Going after position prospects who can take a freakin pitch might help the overall minor league environment.

but I’ll believe it when I see it. You’ve got a group of primarily veteran guys. How much are they are willing and able to change their approach?

Of course, Knapp was able to do some great work with the arms. I am a bit skeptical, though. I think this approach will work best with the young guys-whenever they start to play.

And that seemed to work out well that year. I’m not sure if they moved away from that or what. And it seemed like the Tigers were really good at making adjustments in-game back then. If a pitcher was holding them down the first and second time through the order, the swings usually got better by the time the fifth inning or so rolled around (I remember one game in particular. It was a 0-0 duel between Kenny Rogers and John Smoltz and all of a sudden the Tigers scored five runs off Smoltz in the fifth or the sixth). The Tigers still have a lot of the same guys that they did in ’07 (though, admittedly, that number is dwindling). And…I just realized I have absolutely no point to make.

Not based on any stats, but it seems like it’s Polanco, and he seems to be getting prepped for a ride on the rails out of town.

Anyway, if we do the ‘plate discipline’ theme for next year, can we keep the "throw strikes!’ philosophy, too? It makes for a better t-shirt, at the least.

Get the elves working on that, Ian.

Sorry, I won’t believe this until I see it.

For me, It’s not about teaching this philosophy, it’s about supplementing the existing talents in the draftees. I fully believe that there’s an inherent trait that separates good eyes at the plate from decent or bad eyes. Sure, you can make some strides, but generally the guys that go from 80 to 100 walks are guys that were already above-average in plate discipline to begin with.

Dave Dombrowski and his scouting department NEEDS to get away from the toolsy prospects — both on the mound and at the plate.

The toolsy prospects are great and when you hit on one, you hit for a grand slam with a Miguel Cabrera or a Hanley Ramirezz. Trouble is that you miss far more than you hit. That’s true for all prospects, but even more so for the raw kids that have all the talent in the world, but no polish. See: Donovan Tate in this 2009 draft class that the Padres took. Kid can hit the ball far and can run and can throw (was going to be in the QB mix this fall at North Carolina for the Tar Heels), but can he show enough discipline to be great? Who knows.

This goes for the mound, too. I’m sick of the fire-balling kids who showcase little command. Why is Rick Porcello effective? Because he keeps the ball on the ground and is average in his BB rate. Why have guys like Robertson, Galarraga, Willis, and most pitching prospects we’ve had lately failed or faltered? Because they walk too many guys.

Walks are good for hitters, bad for pitchers. We need to reverse our philosophies within the organization. Unfortunately, Dave Dombrowski and company haven’t really done that. If they had these talks two years ago, why did it take until this year before h’s re-addressing this issue? Not buying it until I see it happening. And that starts with the type of players they’re drafting.

/my ranting on my frustrations with this front office.

Plate discipline is good, yes. Generally will lead you into the good hitters counts and higher OBP and all of that. Nothing seems to annoy fans more than swinging at the first pitch. But only when you make an out. The entire AL on first pitches in 2009, though – .346/.351/.578. That’s the best OPS of any count other than the “hitter’s counts” of 2-0, 3-0 and 3-1. So you don’t want to necessarily curtail being agressive out of the chute. Also, I’m inclined to think that more guys should get the 3-0 green light, as hitters tuned up a 1.768 OPS in those situations. Granted a lot of this is noise due to drawing a walk on the very next pitch, but still…that’s a piece of baseball CW that needs to be questioned.

Last year we wanted our pitchers to throw strikes, so we plucked Knapp from a team that preaches control. What’s the equivalent to that idea for patient hitting? Isn’t that what the Oakland Athletics are known for? What about approaching one of their minor league coaches?