Tigers Lose With Valor in 12th Inning, 6-5
by Ian Casselberry on Oct 6, 2009 10:05 PM EDT
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintIt was a five-hour thrill ride. 12 innings of emotion. And there is so much to process from this game.
There were heroes and goats. Fielding excellence and defensive incompetence. Clutch hitting, and failure to produce when it counted. There was plenty of redemption. And several players went above and beyond what they're normally called upon to do.
The Detroit Tigers and Minnesota Twins played what has to be defined as a classic, in a last battle for the AL Central title. And while Tiger Town is surely disappointed with the final score, take pride that your baseball team fought to the very end.
Tigers lose, 6-5, in 12 innings, and thus cede the AL Central to the Twins in a heartbreaker.
There will be a recap at some point, but for now, thank you to each and every reader who devoted their night to spending their time with this community. And not just tonight, of course, but throughout the entire season. Regardless of the outcome, this was truly an amazing night, and you deserve applause for enduring it together.
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thats what the cubs say
you guys know better than that
YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD YES!
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions
much love to you all
great ride, sad it ends before the playoffs….looking forward to next year….especially the meetup….
Official BYB Juju Consultant...now accepting rally creature applications!
Oh well...I have one last picture that I didn't use, even if appropriate.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
I think it works
It was a hell of a ride, and it wouldn’t have been the same without everyone here. The ending sucked big time – but most of it was fantastic.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Anyone else have a song stuck in their head?
I always get one stuck in my head in sad situations like this… Either a really sad song, hollow song, or somewhat uplifting song…
Tonight’s is Inside Us All – Creed.
If you haven’t heard it, you might want to listen to it, it might perk you up… Well or make you cry I guess too, but it will make you feel better.
I'm have Teardrop by Massive Attack in my head...
but the Newton Faulkner version is more or less the one I’m thinking of.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
Creed?
That’s terrible.
I have “Why Don’t We Talk About Something Else” by Detroit garage-rockers Outrageous Cherry in mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hok-14XS3s
(skip forward to the 0:50 mark, you’ll thank me for it)
by frisbeepilot on Oct 6, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh, it's not terrible...
It’s actually a good song… by the way, I hate all of Creed’s singles just so you know…
Creed is an awesome band...
most of todays bands play a style of music that Creed made popular. Like em’ or not they are a huge part of music history. Plus Mark Tremonti is an amazing guitarist.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
I do like Creed, I just hate Scott Stapp
And their songs off their CD that are not Singles are SO much better…
Plus I like Alter Bridge more…
No.
We are not the collapse spectacularly in the last month Mets. We are the team that saw the second place heel-nippers become white hot and take it to game 163, extra innings.
We are not the ’07 Mets.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Oct 6, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
the title of this thread
made me feel better … good year((fuck that extremely entertianing year) … but why did miner come out for the 7th?! …by the by I am rooting for the Twins … central division solidarity unless its the white sux!!
As long as the Twins do not win the series...
I do not give one tenth of one damn who wins. Baseball is over for me for a long, long time.
Hate 'em.
with a stupid dome, stupid turf, and a stupid dome. It bears repeating.
Welcome to the great outdoors next year, you bastards.
Yes, I am bitter.
Marsh was awful tonight
we hated him over at TT also
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Oct 6, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely
+1 on that brother.
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I’m pulling to the Yankees.
Also, I am fairly confident this will be the last playoff run for the Twins for quite some time. Sure, all of their key players are back next year, but this is a team that played way over their heads, and most importantly, will not have the ridiculous homefield advantage next year. Next season players like Punto and Tolbert will be nearly worthless without the ability to slap a ball into the turf.
A lifelong Tigers fan
I kinda feel this way too.
I’m tired of the AL Central being the doormat. I hope the Twins sweep the Yankees.
I hope they beat the yankee's too...
despite how much I hate our division rivals, the yankees deserve nothing good…ever.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
Porcello looks exhausted.
Poor kid gave everything he had.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
You know, I like the beard
I kinda hope he keeps it.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
We got hosed by pinch-runners
Both here and back in Detroit.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose I should clarify
Pinch-runners who come in, don’t score, but later on make dazzling defensive plays and get big hits.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
My bottom line
tonight sucked hard. It will hurt for a while
But I’ll take this loss 10 times out of 10 over losses of August and September of 2008
http://www.fromthecopa.blogspot.com
by rock n rye on Oct 6, 2009 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
rec'd this
If a loss hurts this much, it means the season meant something.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
I know it's only sports
but damn, when you devote every day for six months into following a team…shit like this is a huge buzzkill
I'm sure there will be multiple threads on this....
but Polly, Rodney, and Lyon may all be gone, and probably Thamesy too.
Yeah, 2010 will be a different look
but the pitching will be there – JV, Porcello, E-Jack, Theoretically Healthy Bonderobertson, etc.
I'm skipping my 9:00
And work
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 6, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing that eternally sucks...
from now on, we get to hear about this team in the “Biggest Chokes Ever” lists that they always do in September. Blargh.
Rook is right
The Tigers played their game and the Twins played better.
Imagine if you’re a Twins fan and you lose 2 sudden death games in a row?
and maybe september
wasbt either … the Twins had no buisness playing that well 17 of 21!? probably wouldnt happen if the seasn was played out another 100 times
Yeah, I really don’t think people will classify this as a “choke.”
People will remember this tiebreaker.
by Ian Casselberry on Oct 6, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that if the Tigers were blown out and outclassed
It would be remembered as a choke, because it would blend together with all the earlier games. The way this game went, it stands alone as a tremendous game, and how each team got to the position of being tied is far less important.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
It might be too soon...
But, I just wanted to come over from the Twins board and say nice season. Obviously, we know how much it stinks to lose a one game playoff and I can only imagine it hurt worse to lose it in extra innings.
I know it sounds cheap after that win, but I (and a lot of my fellow twins fans) have a lot of respect for the Tigers and Detroit.
It’s going to hurt for awhile, but you guys have a helluva ballclub. See you guys next year.
"This ain't a football game, we do this every day." - Earl Weaver
I hate the Twins...
Nothing against you or anything, I just don’t like anything Minnesota… Except for the Timberwolves, I never minds them…
Yeah
You’ve been a good sport. After all, it is only baseball. Good luck and all of that. I think the Yankees can be viewed as a common enemy. And again, you’ve been cordial and I think a lot of us appreciate that. Even though I really freaking hate the Twins right now.
Thanks for not being a troll.
It was civil and good conversation. Good luck.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
I'm not as depressed as I thought I would be if they lost
the game was not a blow out (I was afraid it would be). Instead it was very hard fought with interesting plays and calls. It was epic baseball!
yeah
i’ll take a nailbiter loss over receiving a 8-0 buttkicking any day
http://www.fromthecopa.blogspot.com
well, in the tradition of the hockey handshake
I’m going to wander over to the Twins blog and wish them luck. It won’t do them a damn bit of good, probably, but it was a heck of a game and both teams played their hearts out.
then I’m going to cry myself to sleep. G’night, all.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Thanks for an amazing game
I don’t think we could ask for a more exciting final game of the season. I just wanted to say you guys are great rivals. If I could make it like 2006 and get both of our teams into the postseason I would. Thanks for making me feel welcome here during the playoff race.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Oct 6, 2009 10:15 PM EDT reply actions
thanks for being civil
There is nothing as irritating as seeing a bunch of comments like “you suxors!!!111 My team RULz!!1111” with all the intelligence of a retarded gibbon on the keyboard.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
yea
Stupid Penguins trolls were the worst last year. :(
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
God
I hate the Penguins- more than I ever hated the Wings.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 6, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
their trolls were horrible
It was an exhausting days-long fight to get them to go away and celebrate their Cup win. Unbelievable.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
And they JUST....KEPT....COMING
All summer long just to rub our noses in it. And like was said so often at A2Y…it’s like they had to keep coming to defend themselves.
zombie penguin trolls
And of course, they never bothered reading what the commenters had been typing for days before hand so it was like constantly explaining the same concept over and over and over to a senile goldfish. Ugh.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Not to mention his knees
And I do hope they overlook the batting average and give him the Gold Glove he deserves.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
and his first half has to make you wonder
if he is healthy all year whether or not he could not contribute positvely ALL year in ’10 on that side coupled with his amazing defense …. he saved the season for a few more innings tonight on the play in the (whatever) inning …
Ugh...
I really have NOTHING to look forward to now…
I just realized this… Absolutely nothing.
Hopefully the Lions turn it around and have an amazing season :D
okay, I couldn't stay away.
I don’t get FSD here, but I am watching MLB Network.
by TigerFanInCleveland on Oct 6, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions
This isn't a shameless plug for myself...
but this song I wrote is also befitting my mood.
http://www.garageband.com/song?|pe1|S8LTM0LdsaSgZFW2ZmE
I need relaxing music at this point to console myself.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
my newest one is "A Minor Transgression"
just added it today. They are all free to download as well.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
thanks...
music is my sanity. I just make it and hope people like it as much as I do.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
my most popular song seems to be Classically Reserved...
just to let you know.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
my interest is gone.....
I’m already sick, so I can be depressed and sick all day and it won’t be out of character… Hopefully everyone that called me during the game will understand that I’m crushed right now and leave me alone…
ugg it’s just hard being a loyal fan of the Chiefs, Tigers, Sabres, and Syracuse… not too much success there recently…
I have to say this was a great season
even if it ended crappy. Look back at the season previews and all the “experts” picked Detroit for fourth place at best.
Yeah it was a great ride at the end. The kids learned a few new words which I’m going to have to encourage them to NOT bring to school with them.
And now off to my obsession when I’m not obsessing over the Tigers…the Red Wings and all the ulcers they’ll provide me with until next spring.
Later bitches. (meant in the figurative fraternal sense of course so as not to offend any of our softer skinned crowd)
We should have won in 06.
I literally cannot move from my couch. I think there’s something really wrong with me.
Yeah
From the moment Wainwright struck out Inge I thought to myself – “they may never get this close again. Squander.”
Was Inge the tying run?
Can’t remember
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
There are only two moments since 2006 in which I willingly turned off the TV, not being able to watch
That was one of them. I’ve never seen the footage of Inge striking out.
(For the record, the other was that 2008 Labor Day game against the Yankees. It was right after Pudge got traded, and the emotions were still a little raw at that point).
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I was watching with my girlfriend, now my wife.
She looked at me like she was worried about me that night. She’s giving me the same look right now.
Honestly, I can't get up.
I can put my tickets for Game 4 of the DS right next to my World Series Game 6 tickets.
yup
How many players get one chance and never get another?
And yet, they were close to making the playoffs again. Not a bad turnaround from 2003.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Its the anger speaking
but I am so glad I wasted about 150+ days planning days, nights, and losing hours of sleep around this epic fail….
I never would feel like I wasted them
Like you, I’m just sad to have had it end so abruptly. Hell, I probably would’ve found a way to have enjoyed the ‘03 season to some degree. I enjoyed last season, but I enjoyed this season more. And part of it was because of the fact that the Tigers did what no “expert” thought they would do, but part of it was you guys. I’m glad I found you, and I’m glad you guys accepted me into your group. I’ll definitely hang around and comment on Ian’s off-season posts, but it won’t be the same as the wackiness that goes on in Game Threads.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention
fights with my wife over the time spent watching the Tigers, turning down nights out with my friends, to watch the Tigers, making my family mad at dinner because I’m watching the Tigers….
Oh jeese...
I guess I have to avoid all sports and news sites as well as ESPN and local channels for a couple of days.
I don’t want to keep seeing this news.
I avoided it all day today to avoid the Favre-smooching
So just need to extend that a bit until they get distracted by the next shiny thing.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
So...just out of curiosity...
Who WILL be watching the postseason?
I probably will, but I may stay away from Yankees-Twins (the first game of that series should be easy enough, it’s at 6:00 and I’m at work then). I’ll watch the other three series and root for the Dodgers (and the Yankees…sorry, but I made a promise to someone).
I probably won't...
I have lots of trouble watching other teams. I just don’t get as engaged. I’m just gonna wait for basketball.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
I dont really
like any of the postseason teams except for the Twins … they have an organization with a low payroll but smart managment … thats who I like to root for … there really isnt any other team like that …
Don't the Rockies have a fairly low payroll?
And they’re the HUGE underdogs… a much bigger deficit to come back and make the playoffs for them than the Twins.
maybe the NL
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 6, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know
I certainly won’t watch any of the games for a while – after that, it will depend on how the series work out and if there is a team advancing that attracts my interest.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
I've gotten so used to NOT seeing the Tigers in the postseason thats it's old hat to me now
I’ll pick a team and go from there.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll skip out on LDS
Might tune in accidentally for the LCS, will probably watch the WS if it gets interesting.
Hockey season just started.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Oct 7, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
New 3rd baseman
For god sakes, get rid of Inge. One hell of a 3rd baseman, to bad he can’t hit worth ….
What a load of horseshit
Where the hell were you for the first half of the season, when he hit .270 with 20 bombs? Or the second half of the season, where he played through God knows how much pain in order to try to keep this team in the race because we had no other options at third base?
Look, I’m far from an Inge apologist, but if you want to blame Brandon Inge for what happened today, you’re a fucking idiot.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 6, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Whew
Sorry about the bile… little stressed right now.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 6, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
No, there's no need to apologize
Just another dipwad looking for a simple, one-person excuse. Remember, the entire team was brought down by ONE PERSON.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Oct 6, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and he has all of THREE comments
And it spells T-R-O-L-L.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Oct 6, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I am an Inge apologist.
I will admit he wasn’t great in the second half but damn it, he helped get us in the lead and stay there for who knows how long. His knees are shredded and today he did as much as anyone could to try and get a win.
Inge left everything he had out on that diamond.
Agreed...
Let’s just upgrade at other positions… I think 3B is fine…
If he’s healthy he should hit around .260-.270 the whole season next year, which is fine with me if he hits 30 hrs.
Like C
Or LF or DH or SP slots 4 and 5.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 6, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
C it’s hard to say. Laird obviously has offensive struggles but his defense has been top notch. I think keep him around, start to see if you can edge Avila into two (or so) starts per week and see how it goes.
LF I think we’re fine if we could just set Carlos Guillen adrift somehow and get Raburn some kind of repetition, regular playing time seems to benefit him.
DH please god. Everyone loves Marcus Thames, but it’s time to move on. Aubrey Huff? Well, at least we gave up jack crap for him.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Oct 7, 2009 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's an idea
Wait until AFTER he gets his knees taken care of and see if he can repeat the first half of his season but extend it if he is healthy before you start throwing out a guy who can play defense like that and plays with that much heart.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Hell of a game, guys
I really thought you had the game won about three times. If you had one, I’d certainly be rooting for you guiys to kick the shit out of the Yankees.
Oh, and thanks for not trolling. No way that would happen in a football game of this magnitude.
Thanks Ian - It was a helluva ride
Ian -
Thanks for hosting one of the best Blogs out there, finding it made a great season even more fun.. I said it a couple of days ago that this reminded me of 67 and unfortunately the result was the same……but remember what happened the next year! I am as disappointed as any Tiger Fan but it was a terrific season with lots and lots of highs. ANY of us would have been thrilled if we knew in April where we would be today. Start the hot stove I’m ready to make the trades and signings that will allow us to clinch in September next year.
Jim
Dewitt Michigan
I'll be here all off-season
I guess I can get a month early start on my off-season player posts.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
I'll still keep an eye here during the offseason...
I’ve spent to much time here to just up and leave now.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
same here
I need a few days to recover, but I’d miss everybody.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
I'll probably be around tomorrow.
I heal quick. When I got my gall bladder removed I was doing normal activities in a couple of days. When I got my wisdom teeth out I was eating and drinking whatever I wanted the next day. When I got my toe operated on I was walking around that night. When I cut my finger wide open on the deli slicer I was cutting meat again after an hour.
I imagine my heart will heal just as quickly as well.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
hey there folks
i watched as much of the game as i could before work, listened to it on the radio during work, and watched the finale of it in our little cafe. the tigers played their hearts out.
i was angry at raburn for his uber botch (should have played that hit as a single instead of diving and letting it get past him). but he redeemed himself with the throw to gun down the runner at homer later in the inning. i was also angry at randy marsh all night. his strike zone was terrible (for both sides, at least it was even) and his miss of inge getting hit might have lost the tigers some serious momentum in the last inning.
you all are pretty awesome here at this blog. it’s a place i can come and express my love of a team and a sport and people actually understand, and embrace, how i feel. thank all of you for being a great group to watch games with.
ps…the girlfriend is a keeper. she sat and watched the game with me after work even though she should have gone home and done homework
I Like Pie
will do
she was always amazed when i said i had to watch the game with you folks because most of my friends aren’t into sports.
I Like Pie
Magglio
Man, that game tying home run was awesome as was Inge’s lead taking hit and his defensive save.
I loved this group of players overall.
He's an emotional SOB.
His decisions baffle me to the point of irrational anger at times but I genuinely like him.
he frustrated me so much tonight
IMO if the players want him still, keep him…
Even now I still want to type “take out Zach Miner…PH for Laird…Don Kelly???”
he knows he could've done better...
but we forget the fact that he took a team that missed Carlos for most of the season, had a ill hitting magglio for most of the season, a slumping Curtis Granderson for the whole season, a pitching rotation with only 3 really good pitchers, and managed to make a winning ball club out of all of that.
In all honesty I think Jim Leyland did an excellent job this season with what he had. He had next to no offense this season but still managed to have this team lead the division up to this point. To me that is very respectable and I will challenge anybody who says to fire him after this effort this season.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
he managed to put the right players in every night for a long time...
he may have failed near the end but it doesn’t deserve his job.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
He did the best he could with what he had
With that offense, I doubt anyone else could have kept a team in first for as long as the Tigers were.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
The injuries.
This Tiger team was nowhere near healthy for any part of the season. I love Leyland, despite his weird proclivities.
Yeah, look at all the key pieces who were either lost or significanly affected by injuries for part or most of the year:
Zumaya, Inge, Bonderman, Galarraga, Thames, Guillen, Robertson, and even Washburn (though he kinda came to us already bearing the injury).
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
very tough loss
twins just happened to be on the winning side today
really it coulda gone either way…..sigh
Because when I think of Boris Diaw, I think of Beethoven and the age of Romanticism....
Watching the highlights (on mute)
Geez, the Twins scored the tying run and the winning run on two of the weakest ground ball singles you could imagine. THAT’S frustrating.
Unfortunately, the damn thing lives to see at least one more game
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying that the Twins have been cheating...
but we’ll definitely see how much of advantage the Dome has given them next season.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
watching the office
haven’t managed to change the channel since the game ended
one good thing, no highlights….but I haven’t managed to laugh yet, and this show usually cracks me up
Official BYB Juju Consultant...now accepting rally creature applications!
Had to work tonight...
so I wasn’t even able to watch the whole thing. However, if there is any consolation right now, Rick Porcello was a man possessed tonight. He is going to be a force to be reckoned with in the very near future…..
that he will
He was focused and determined, and with that talent he will be an amazing pitcher.
I’m glad he’s a Tiger.
(I’m also glad I got a chance to change out of my damp clothes.) :)
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Okay guys... Going to bed... I'm done...
It will be REALLY depressing tomorrow when the loss really sinks in.
One thing I will say
I only got to watch a little bit of this game, but it was clear to me that all our guys battled their asses off. It was a hard fought game to the end, and you couldn’t ask anything more of any of our guys. Miguel Cabrera came up big, as did Inge, as did Magglio. We didn’t lay down and die. The only thing that sucks is the score.
Oh...and I forgot to praise Rick Porcello, Fu Te Ni, and Brandon Lyon as well for their fine work.
Hopefully, all three of these guys will play a big (positive) role in 2010.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
and Rodney?
he gave up the winner but agin weak ground balls and he was at 45 pitches … but I dont really ant the Tigers to bring him back …
Yeah, forgot him, too
As I said, the game-tying and game-winning singles were not hit hard at all, and he didn’t exactly get help from his friends to start that 10th inning (got some help later, though). He held nothing back, I’ll give him that.
It would be weird to see him in anything other than a Tigers’ uniform. But I wouldn’t mind seeing Lyon inherit the closer’s job next year.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
I love these guys even more than the 2006 team … I cant stress how how much Lyon and Rodney are part of my Detroit Tigers memory but the team has used a lot of high draft picks over the last few years on relievers and they should give them a shot instead of giving out contracts to Rodney and Lyon that may hurt them in 2011 and even 2012. The same goes for Polly even though I’d hate to see him go.
I'd like to give Perry one more year of seasoning before slotting him in as a the closer.
Also, Lyon and Seay together can be the backbone needed to give some cushion to those youngsters.
Reference my earlier post...
Tigers + bad calls + Tigers toy bat + stuff on the table in front of me =
Do you live in the Toledo area?
Or is Gino’s Pizza a wider chain than I thought it was?
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, I live just east of Toledo, in Oregon
But I usually just say Toledo when I’m on here cuz otherwise I confuse people.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here
I haven’t really said anything on this thread because I’m just too sad and upset to think of anything good to say.
by kendra.michelle on Oct 6, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I know
Sometimes it’s just cathartic to read all the comments and know that we aren’t alone.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
I wish we could all collectively hug it out
I feel like everyone needs it right now. haha.
by kendra.michelle on Oct 6, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I do.
Actually I could use a stiff drink right now. But I despise alcohol so I won’t.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
doctors advise against it
Too easy to transmit flu. This is more hygenic.
Goodnight everyone. Talk to you sometime later – and have a good offseason.
Go Tigers! //sniff
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
One thing's for sure
We make a damn good support group.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
banding together throught the good, the bad, and the squandery
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
All for one and one for all!
Good God, I just turned us into the Three Musketeers.
That’s okay. I like fencing. Hence my screenname.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
we need a picture for this
Tigers with cavalier hats. :)
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
I could do it if I had a picture of three Tigers standing together
The only one I have is of Maggs, Verlander, and Pudge, so that’s a little out of date. Is there a Cabrera/Verlander/Inge picture somewhere?
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 6, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Same with me
It’s mostly just sad. I’ve seen this many times with the Olympics where you have it within your grasp and at the last second it gets snatched away.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Bummer of an ending
But it was nice finding a place to talk during games with other knowledgeable Tigers fans. Thanks for the great stretch and that was one hell of a game.
This season was awesome thanks to BYB.com and the Tigers fans that post on here.
That’s what made these games so much fun – sharing the fandom. Conversely it also makes this loss sting more but at least I know there are others who share my Tigers love illness.
I can't tell if I still have adrenaline pumping from the game...
of the caffeine from to much pop. But I’m kinda shaky right now still.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
I still haven't left the couch.
Guess I’ll have to eventually. Thanks to everyone for listening throughout the season-eventually I’ll be able to summarize, but right now I am just very, very sad.
Well, I said congrats to the Twins fans
They were very nice. It would be even easier to hate them if their fans acted like douchebags instead.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Oh, I still hate the Twins
their fans, well they’re fine by me. But the team is worse than cancer. And by the team, I mean the uniforms, not the guys who wear them.
To all of you at BYB:
Here’s a little quote from Lord of the Rings that I think sums up a lot of people’s feelings:
I’m glad to be with you, Samwise Gamgee, here at the end of all things.
You know what?
Now that I’ve had time to decompress a bit….this was one of the best baseball games I’ve watched in a long time. Too bad the wrong team won. I’m drunk, my throat is sore from the yelling, and I’m epicly sad but it kind of gives me that “this is why I love sports (specifically the DT)” feeling. I don’t know if that makes sense, but whatever
If my sister has that place in Arlington I may fly down and watch the Tigers.
And wonder how much dust is around.
It hasn't quite sunk in that I'm not going to see these guys again for 5 months
After seeing them nearly every day since April, I’ll going to miss them terribly. And some I will never see again, I’m sure. Here’s hoping that Inge, Bonderman, and Galarraga get 100% healthy and ready to kick ass next year, that Magglio can keep the momentum he started to build in September, that Granderson and Laird do the necessary work to get themselves more consistent at the plate, that Miggy stays out of trouble, and that Justin Verlander remains his awesome self.
and
Bonderman was one “bad son of a bitch” at one time … maybe as heathly he is a sneaky FA signing that the Tigers won’t have to make … I agree I am looking foward to what all three of these guys will do when healthy next year … plus the core of Cabreara, Granderson, Jv, E-Jax and Procello makes them competitive any year in my book …
Hey fond memory
remember Bondo’s Game 4 in the ALDS? That was some serious dealing. Wow, I guess I’ve resorted to remembering past triumphs to make myself feel better….
Oops, forgot Zumaya
I hope he gets (and stays) healthy and learns how to pitch instead of just throw, cuz he’s still got the potential to be one hell of a weapon. Hey, if JV could do it, Zoom certainly can.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Geat season guys,
and great final game. Had it gone the other way I would have been a BYB regular for the rest of the way. I like your blog and your respect for the game. (Not as big a fan of the SSS Blog..) I was terrified of your lineup all night, your rookie pitcher owned us for the first half of the game, and I do not have a single fingernail left on my hands. I certainly know what it feels like to have my team lose a one game playoff (See: Jim Thome, One year ago) so even though I am excited for my club, my heart goes out to you.
I always loved that one.
Tip of the cap to you, too. It was a hard-fought game
And maybe these things are cyclical, and next year WE’LL win the one-game playoff with whomever :-)
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Twins fans
Stop being so nice! It makes it hard to hate your team. lol. Seriously, I like those guys – Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Afro Gomez and the like are a fun group. Just stop with the beating us all the time thing…
+1
I hate the Twins, but it’s hard to express that here when you guys are so awesome.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 7, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
It's unfortunate
FoulJack seems to be the gem in the crap. Lots of flaming all around the webz tonight from Twins fans.
Thanks for showing us some class, Jack. Always nice to see.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
yeah
Act like arrogant douchebags so we can hate you easier. And beat someone else for a change and stop with that “adding-on-runs” business. It’s annoying as hell. :)
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
HA!
I know. I was full of piss and liquid hot magma for a week at least after last years shitty one game playoff. (Especially since we had owned the WhiteSox and won the season series but had to play at Chicago because of a coin flip) But yes, sorry, I’ll try to be more of an a-hole.
- cough *
“Um…LOLZ Twins roolz Tigers droolz!!!11”
How was that? Eh, I don’t have it in me. You guys had a great year, enjoy the offseason dreaming of a rotation of Procello, Jackson, Verlander and whoever else. That is SICK pitching.
And now I am going to go pass out from complete exhaustion.
I always loved that one.
you make a pathetic excuse for a proper troll
Congrats.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
I'm rootin
for the Twins and Mauer better win MVP …. and Zach better win Cy young ,,, and after tonight Porcello better win ROY … a central sweep … the white soxs still suck though.
My heart is broken and it will mend
But you know what?
I STILL LOVE THESE GUYS!!!! Tried and True
Bless You Boys for the effort and thanks for a Great season….
Well, if nothing else, our season would make for one hell of a Shakespearian tragedy
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
or novel
“It was the most prolific of innings, it was the most squandery of innings …”
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Oh gawd this is going to make me cry
by kendra.michelle on Oct 6, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I am incredibly proud.
Still sad, not sure when I’ll get over it, but I still love them and am still proud to be a Tigers fan.
by kendra.michelle on Oct 6, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell yeah he is.
If he hadn’t proved himself before, he certainly did today.
by kendra.michelle on Oct 6, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He was focused and determined
Tremendous, gutsy effort. And I think he should keep the beard. It works on him.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Dude, you and me both
The beard looks good on Rick. It goes nicely with Verlander’s facial hair.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
by this point I think even Nick Punto's mom
hates Nick Punto.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Sad news
I grew a beard as well. You know, as a show of fan solidarity. Now I guess I’ll have to shave. That’s going to be a pain in the ass. Damn Twins.
First thing I did
Filled the bathtub and shaved everything off.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 7, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
although the photo tripped me out. I’m used to seeing the Rangers in white and the Tigers in gray…
I'm afraid I don't really have it in me.
It’s like I kicked out my significant other for getting a little soused at a party and hitting on my girlfriends, and for a few months he’s been crashing at a buddy’s house, but he reminds me that we have such a long history together that it would be a shame to throw it away without trying to patch up our differences, so I’m taking him back.
But he’s still sleeping on the couch. I may be a slut for hockey, but I’m not that forgiving. :D
Now that the baseball season is over I need something to distract me from the cold dark nights of winter.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
and I think you're right
Nobody died, and next season has a lot of potential.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
yeah. i switched to a tigers background i made a few weeks ago.
i guess i’ll have to change it, or else i’ll get upset every time i’m on the computer.
doesn't help but i just want you to know...
You guys posting at Twinkie Town are 10x classier than I would be in your shoes. You guys have a great community here and I respect the hell out of the Tigers fanbase.
The crappy thing is that baseball is the only one of the "big four" sports that I follow
But I guess there is some perspective: The other sports thing I go nuts over is the Olympics. If your guy/girl/team doesn’t pull through in the Olympics, you have to wait FOUR years for another chance. Six months doesn’t seem so long in comparison. I just wish I had something to occupy my mind until then.
yup
Pretty much every sport is 12 months a year if trades, contract negotiations, drafts, etc. are included.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
It won't be the same, though
It’s hard to come up with a reason to post a picture of, say, vegetables in a post about the Rule 5 Draft
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 6, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmmm ....
But did the vegetable pictures show up for a reason, or did the vegetable pictures show up and then we tried to manufacture a reason after the fact? :)
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Long story
It came into being after “rally ice cream,” “rally cake,” and “rally chocolate” stopped working. We decided that the Tigers would get no more dessert until they “ate their vegetables.” This is also what led to me posting “Victory dessert” after ever win.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
oh, I remember
But I’m sure vegetables could be justified for prospects, too.
An exercise in creativity.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
And prospects!
Don’t forget prospects.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 7, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I only really follow baseball, college basketball, and college football.
Hockey too, but not being able to watch it in Indiana kind of screws with that.
Anyways, since my college football team blows giant donkey balls this year, it’s going to be a LONG 37 days until college basketball starts. At least we have a good basketball team.
I have a favorite college football team, and a favorite hockey team, and yet I never watch college football or hockey
I will occasionally watch a pro football game (usually during the playoffs), but I don’t really have a favorite team. Just teams I like, teams I don’t like, and teams I’m neutral about. I do find myself rooting for the Steelers and Cowboys fairly often, though.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I posted a very short blog with a photo of rick in the dugout tonight
and I just want to cry some more looking at it. he so deserved this.
Yeah since it was a 12 inning game
it’s almost easy to forget how fucking incredible he pitched tonight
maybe so
But in 2002 (?) (Angels WS win) one of the young pitchers was pulled relatively early – 80 pitches or so – and he commented afterwards that it felt like more pitches because there was so much intensity and concentration he had to put into each one that he felt as though he had thrown more.
Maybe that was what Leyland was thinking of.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
To the Tigers:
This one’s for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_CQcrwgFyw
Or, if you prefer to watch the slideshow tribute I did for Pudge last year/this June (same song—and please don’t laugh):
Anyone know where I can watch the players' postgame interviews online?
by okie for michigan on Oct 7, 2009 12:07 AM EDT reply actions
hey heres something positive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKQnkFkOaFQ
Because when I think of Boris Diaw, I think of Beethoven and the age of Romanticism....
I can't either
But someday…SOMEDAY we will get back there.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
dont blame ya
Because when I think of Boris Diaw, I think of Beethoven and the age of Romanticism....
gonna go to bed.
night kids. it’s been awesome, and I’m sure most of us will still talk here through the off-season.
holy crap
I’ve been hanging out here for the last seven hours!
If this was real life you would all be yawning and making hints that it might be time for me to head home. :)
Goodnight, everyone – I was hoping for the Tigers to play again tomorrow, but no such luck. Too bad – these guys played their butts off to try to make it.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
This is a sad day for us.
but of course I think most of us will be watching the playoffs and then of course the World Series. Now that our boys are on hiatus for a bit just out of curiosity, Who would any of you like to see take it all?
I can never stand to watch the playoffs after losing.
Definitely not the Twins/Yankees series. Maybe the World Series, if it doesn’t feature either of them.
I’d like to see the Angels in the series from our side, and the Cardinals in the NL. Rockies wouldn’t be too bad either.
I will watch the postseason (after all, the Tigers usually AREN'T in it anyways)...
…but I’ll probably stay away from the Twins/Yankees series (first game should be easy enough to avoid—It starts at 6:00 and I’ll be at work then).
I’ll probably end up rooting for the Dodgers and the Yankees (because I made a promise to someone to do so).
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
All due respect
but how could you root for THEM? They are evil (cf. 2006) and must be stopped at all costs!
I'm always amused when I go to Pujols' espn player page.
And see “Pronounciation: POO-holes”. Bwahhahah.
My roommate is a Cards fan.
And although I nearly stabbed him in 2006, he was nice about it and supported the Tigers down the stretch this year. Plus, how can you not like Pujols, Carpenter, and uh…those other guys they have…someone…
I really despise any AL team
I have players that I like from all of the AL teams but as a whole, I loathe most of them. So when our boys don’t go the distance, I usually gor for the NL in the post season. I also like the Cubbies, but we all know how that ended up too.
last year i went with the brewers
since milwaukee is closer than detroit, and they were a good story
I always go NL too.
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 7, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Last year I rooted for the Rays and the Dodgers
Rays cuz they were a good story, Dodgers cuz I just like ’em (except Manny Ramirez). And, well, one of those teams got in and proceeded to almost duplicate the ’06 Tigers.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to have to go with the Phillies
As I am a native Philadelphian. For some reason that team never took for me, but I’ll go there for some hometown nostalgia. No, wait, screw it. The Rox are a better story.
For some reason
I hate the Angels … but not as much as I dislike Jeter … so Yanks and Halos out … heart Manny but heart Tulo more so I’ll go with the Rox … Twins in AL though … I would enjoy the fact that the Rockies and Twins could not be more of a bad draw for Fox ratings-wise .. so that be cool … plus I like both their orgs.
And another reason I won't take a hiatus during the postseason is that I know all too soon there won't be ANY baseball
And I’ll regret that hiatus during December.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Angels I suppose, or I'll settle for anyone from the AL
Just so I don’t have to hear the AAAA-league fanboys scream about how the NL wins the WS all the time and aren’t a junior league, so I can stop hauling out the interleague stats.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
From a White Sox fan...
My M.O. is to root for the White Sox and when they are eliminated to root for the AL Central team, then when the AL Central team is eliminated, root for the AL.
In 2006 I was ticked off at the Tigers World Series collapse. Hearing about what happened tonight, glad I didn’t watch it live. I would be ticked off again. I taped the game so I can ruin tomorrow night by watching it, if I want.
The Twins make it difficult for me to stick to my M.O.
Darn Tigers, I really wanted you to win it all.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
By the way, what happens with those ALDS tickets people bought.
They are refunded, right? Or are people screwed?
Refunded, of course.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Yeah, I get my money back.
Hopefully sooner rather than later. I already shredded the tickets.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Aw, man, getting up at 6 AM is going to SUCK.
If there is any upside, it’s that there is (likely) nary a Twins fan either at school or at the pharmacy.
It's communication?
You’re not fucked- it’s all common sense.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
I can't fall asleep
I’ve gotten used to having replays of games on MLB.tv playing in the background, and I now have complete silence. That’s when the tears started to fall. And I don’t cry.
Can't fall asleep either.
I think I’ll do some homework and maybe just pull an all-nighter and wallow in my sorrow.
Last thought of the night
I’m really glad Magglio’s option vested, even after all of the handwringing leading up to it. Dude is nails.
He turned it up a notch
Hopefully it’ll carry over into next year.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I am wondering if he will play winterball this year
since he got hot so late in the season, he might want to stay honed for next season. I know the leagues start in Venezuela on Oct. 10
HIGHLY doubtful
Just don’t see that happening. Could go all Brandon Inge offseason 2008-09 though, really condition himself and work on his game with trainers.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
That brings up an interesting question
Of all the Tigers, who do you guys think will play winter ball? I know they want Dontrelle Willis to do it. I also wouldn’t object to seeing Granderson and Laird down there, at least for a little while, to see if they can become a little more consistent.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Granderson, Willis, Jackson
Light load on Jackson. I think he showed a lot of promise at the start of the year and he’s young yet. He was 14-15 in 2008 with the Rays and finished respectably this year overall, even with his last month or two being garbage. He needs some work and maybe the winter boys can work it right.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
last year was the first he hadn't played
since he came to the majors, Maggs had played every year before that.
We'll see
Right now, I’m skeptical. He finished the season on an unbelievable tear (.528 average and 1.300+ OPS) and I really do hope he has another year left in him. I just don’t want to wait until late August 2010 to see it again.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
my thoughts on what must be done
the core of verlander, porcello, and jackson should hold. The bullpen is generally pretty solid. And one day, perhaps Joel Zumaya will be able to pitch again. Also, Bonderman should go in the pen and stay there.
Brandon Inge must go. I don’t know how many of you remember the Bobby Higginson-era, but he is a remnant of it. He is a career .236 hitter who has some power and is a decent fielder. His OPS (On-base plus slugging percentage) of.720 is 134th out of 154 players being counted—-and he was actually .021 higher than his career average of .699 this year. In short, he is a terrible player, and since he had a high HR total, there’s probably some team foolish enough to trade us something decent for him
We need an actual Shortstop. We don’t have one know, at least that I know of.
Laird needs to go. He may be an excellent fielding catcher, but with the offensive problems this season I would prioritize hitting above .250 over throwing out a lot of guys.
I don’t know about Polonco. I could take him or leave he gets on base, but the Tiger’s problem is getting people in after they’re on base.
Make Marcus Thames the regular DH or trade him. His career OPS (.797) is just a few points under Guillen’s and around 40 above Polonco’s. His value is just being wasted as is.
Another thing I think the Tigers need is…well, you could call it a “douchebag”. You might say that the Yankees are entirely composed of this type of player—-guys with a mercenary attitude and an inflated sense of entitlement. You might say this is clubhouse poison, but on the contrary, it’s what they need. Whenever the Tigers are under pressure, or when they are expected to win, they choke—-this is because deep down, they don’t feel like they belong in the winners circle and they are just waiting for someone to knock them to their senses. Gary Sheffield kind of delivered this, but when he stopped being able to perform, his ‘tude became simple posturing that he couldn’t back up. As a team, they need to get away from this “righteous franchise” crap, because it just breeds this attitude of victimization. They need to go out there thinking not just “I expect to win” but “I expect to win because I’m better then them”. In short, they must embrace the dark side.
I'm sure there will be several posts from Ian about what should be done in the offseason.
But I generally agree. Our position players need to get younger. Inge is difficult because he’s such a good fielder, but he’s just getting old and injury prone. It might be time to sell high on him (except his contract blows). We should probably get Sizemore up here next year and let Polanco go. Guillen probably needs to go soon. Magglio will be gone after next year, obviously. I love G$‘s defense and throwing, but his hitting is completely unacceptable. It might be time to give Avila the job if they decide he’s ready.
I don't think Avila's ready yet, though
And remember, Laird IS a career .250-or-so hitter. And I think catcher and shortstop are the two positions in which to prioritize defense. That said, I could very well see them slowly transition from Laird to Avila over the course of next season, as long as Avila continues to show progress defensively and with throwing out runners.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Avila isn't ready
You’re right on the money here. I think McClendon will probably be the last scapegoat to get trimmed before Leyland gets exposed to any real managerial danger as the entire team had problems hitting this season. Get Laird back near his career offensive numbers and we find a solid catcher suddenly where we only had a great defensive one before.
Avila needs time to mature. The kid shows promise, but so did Dusty Ryan toward the end of 2008 and we saw how well that turned out. With Laird on the Tigers, I see no need to rush.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
He probably isn't ready.
I really have no idea. But there were so many goddamn holes in our lineup this year that I just get so frustrated with all those players that represent the holes.
It really is understandable
Everyone (myself included) wants to point and go I FOUND THE PROBLEM but with how this team struggled offensively, it’s really hard to place. I think McClendon will probably shoulder a good chunk of the blame, but I’m not quite sure what players truly showed a lack of development or drive as the season wore on.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
fuck dat
Avila is good enough to go … trade Laird while his defense gives him value … the brew crew need a catcher … trade ’em for some of that JJ hardy action while its availible … plus Miner or a proespect.
Wait... what?
Peg your catcher on a rookie with 29 games experience, trade a struggling offensive catcher to the NL (that already lacks a powerful hitting DH) and package in one of our best relief men. For JJ Hardy, who hit .229 in the NATIONAL LEAGUE this season.
No thanks, I’ll pass on that brand of Kool-Aide.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
silly
good lord am I only one who lets fangraphs tell me what to think!!! his D alone is way above avareage and why base what he is capableof offenively on one bad year … dude could be steal so why not trade a catcher who is having a career year defensively… fuck it … JJ had back to bakc 4+ WAR years in , 07, 08 … you just dont get the opportunity to get a REALLY good defensive SS who is capable of above avaerage offense when his value is at its lowest … I like Laird and think he is worth a lot more than what he is paid but considering the team has an option to replace him capable of replacing that value put G$ on the goddam block … get some prospects then …
At this point I think you're just trolling.
I’ll kill you with numbers and be off then.
JJ Hardy has a career .262/.751 OPS. Career range factor per nine 20 points under league average, per game 50 points under league average. Career zone rating +4.8 per year (barely above average). Before you cite his 2006 season, it was actually his best season defensively because the law of averages didn’t have a chance to kick in and make him suck.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
hmmm
every year since he has qualified,i.e., 2007 he has been top 5 in UZR … but ouch for the Trollin comment … peace bra … taint worth it … free Sizemore, Free Avila and Free hardy for whichever team is smart enough to exploit the Brewers desperation to unload him b/c they want to play Alcides at SS (unless they want to give JJ a shota 3rd which is what I would do) …
Meh
I don’t think you’re a troll… I actually plan on taking up those causes.
Well, maybe not Hardy…
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Oct 7, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
No, that was a troll.
If he could string a sentence together I might take him seriously, and I ain’t nobody’s fucking bra. Did the frat down the street suddenly stumble in here? The concepts are just as dumb and the language sure as hell is following what I hear spewing from their pie holes.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
inge
His fielding is HUGELY overrated. He’s never cracked top ten in fielding percentage, and most years he’s been near the bottom. As a matter of fact, he had the lowest fielding percentage of any regularly starting 3B in the AL; and in the whole league, he’s 15th out of 18. So I shouldn’t have said he’s a good fielder—-he’s terrible at that too, he just makes some flashy plays from time to time.
20 errors in 2009
only 1 3B had more, Chipper Jones
explain then what you mean by "good fielding"
is it “making a flashy play every day or so”?
There are several factors.
Range, throwing, the actual fielding, footwork, quickness, and about five other things that I can’t really express in words. One of those is covered by fielding percentage.
Try zone ratings.
Range factors work a bit better, but are still based on putouts and assists. Think to yourself, how many times have you seen a questionable error called on any play? Errors are a very subjective thing (basically up to the scorer and rarely corrected) and while you can say “over time it evens out” it’s better to just junk the qualitative stat if you’re trying to analyze something quantitatively.
Zone ratings are a bit harder to explain, but The Hardball Times does a great job of explaining it. They actually use SS stats from 2006 here, which is the season a lot of us got really amped over Everett for.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
2009
RF: 2.75 (9th of 18)
ZR: 8.759 (11th of 18)
Well, I suppose that makes him…mediocre, rather than terrible
Or UZR, which puts him at 5/18
Which I think is the best overall indicator of a fielder right now, but definitely not perfect.
UZR works too
The problem is we’re trying to pry a quantitative analysis out of what is, and always will be, a qualitative position. Inge will go after balls others wouldn’t even dream of going after.
The market for 3B is garbage, and we don’t have money to spend. Our problems are elsewhere, I think, and the resources are better focused there.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
but in UZR
(ultimate zone rating from fangraphs) he has been either 4th or better in the MLB since ’06 (tops in ’06). … why dont people just let fangraphs tell them what to think … sheesh …
...because we aren't robots?
Seriously, stop trolling dude. Fangraphs is not the ultimate end all be all of stats.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
didnt you just site UZR at
11:01 pm … I’m kinda kidding about my devotion to it …sheesh … its more so a dimutive way of admitting my lack of real knowledge on the subject while trying to enter into the discourse … sheesh again …
fuck all dis
drama about how to evaluate feilding(thats what cost me my first two ex-wives … the thrid I kicked to the curb b/c she thought “Jeter played the right way and was a great clubhouse presnece”). Alls I know is that I remeber when RHP Harold “One leg” Brown pitched 37 innings of no-hit ball with his left hand after breaking his right pulling a dying handicapped kid from a well … twas 1946 …and twas simpler time after the those “Krauts” werent a problem anymore … FUCK I miss “Fire Joe Morgan” … it as simpler times when that site told me what to think … fangraphs is a poor substitute …
Come back sober.
Or when you gain some basic intelligence about how to act as a person.
Jesus.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
www.fangraphs.com
It’s another site for us statistical types to get our jollies off. Unfortunately a guy like drew3434 here is blindly devoted to what the stats say for an argument that is really based on subjective opinions.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Allow me to retort.
That SP core could work. It depends on how you look at Jackson. In May-June we heard from most sports MSM outlets that Verlander-Jackson was the toughest 1-2 starting pitching in baseball, and it was true. However, Jackson finally came back down to earth. I remember when the trade went down, hearing we picked up a starter that went 14-15 last year and thinking “Well, there are certainly worse ways for this to go.” Unfortunately for us the bulk of Jackson’s poor performance came in the second half, instead of neatly peppered everywhere like one would expect out of a 3-4 SP. You also have to remember that Bonderman, Robertson and Willis are all in the ether waiting for a starting slot. I know it sucks to think that we’re going to have to deal with Willis again but it’s an economic reality for the team.
You’re off the reservation on Inge. The guy played hurt most of the year, clearly evidenced by his second half compared to his first half. When his knees first started acting up, someone asked Kevin Rand about what Inge’s reaction to the developing injuries was. Rand responded that Inge approached him about a DL stint, and whether or not it would help him in the long haul of the season. Rand responded that a DL stint (a 15-day trip, that is) probably wouldn’t help much long-term. Inge decided to tough it out. Still playing 3B he posts a .955 fielding percentage on the season (league average .957 at 3B) which slowly slid south as the second half progressed. Playing with his serious knee injuries and keeping that sort of defensive power is not something you just let go. I understand that I am ignoring the Tigers’ larger problem of HIT THE DAMN BALL here but I really do believe that this was a factor of his knee injuries (he really does torque those things when he has an at-bat). This season had the potential to be a career year for him. Whether or not he can continue that into next season remains to be seen.
I am biased on Polanco. He is my Tiger and he is the only jersey I own. That aside, his K/AB ratio and defensive prowess don’t fall from trees. We have kid infielders waiting but any replacement of Polanco at this point from the farm absolutely will be felt defensively and in the two-hole. Santiago is not an everyday player, a fact he accepts and a role he fits well into — it’d be unfair to ask him to try to do it.
Adios Marcus Thames. Regular playing time for him is just not an option, he’s worse than Clete Thomas in LF (look it up — Thomas is garbage in LF for some weird reason). He was basically a DH this year and never produced. If you remember his 2008 tour he had a few stints where he was hitting a long shot every 4-5 ABs, which was fine because no one expected Big Papi 2004 numbers out of him. However this year he’s been virtually vacant, .252 average with a .777 OPS and only 13 HR is just unacceptable for a DH in a team expecting to compete for the division and perhaps the AL title. I don’t know where to find a DH right now, because I haven’t looked at the market and I think we’d all like Aubrey Huff to just go away a-la Gary Sheffield.
We don’t need a Gary Sheffield. We don’t need a clubhouse poison. There’s really no need to get in-depth here.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
only a few
I can’t by brandon inge. his career ops is just too abysmal and I don’t see it getting better.
Maybe not a Gary Sheffield exactly. I’d just like them to start playing like they expect to get into the playoffs and make a deep run therein, not to poop their collective pants when they realize they really might do it. Basically, a guy with a good bat who’s been on contending teams for awhile and is a bit more experienced than a Miguel Cabrera.
Like a house by the side of the road
Again with Inge and his excuses.
So Inge’s knee issue explains why he had many more strikeouts than he had hits each month in the 2nd half of the season:
Inge’s strikeouts and hits by month, 2nd half of 2009
MTH | HITS | K’s
July 14 32
Aug 18 33
Sep 22 31
Oct 2 3
total 56 hits 98 K’s over July, August, September, October
And a lot of those K’s were of the backward|caught looking|house-by-the-side-of-the-road variety.
I had banned myself from posting comments...
But I have to lift it to say this was such a waste of four hours of my life. Can’t sleep. I hope the Yankees destroy the twins.
Well, I saw somewhere that the Twins are 3-23 against the Yankees since 2002
So the numbers certainly favor the Yankees.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm outta here.
People are getting a bit too whacky, hard to use logic now. Night.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Go away.
Or at least stick this line of insanity up where the discussion was in the first bloody place.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Disappointment and Pride
What a game, what drama and what a disappointment at the end. A heart break loss again, but although I want to scream, I am very proud to be a Tigers Fan. Thank you Tigers for the season. Maybe next season
Metrodome, never again. That’s the good of it
Greetings from Germany. Dirk
I don't feel any pride at all, only shame
and deep down, I want the twins to lose. badly. I don’t think I’ve ever wanted the yankees to win anything, but if I’m honest with myself, I want them to lose. Baseball isn’t like some cartoon where you become friends with your enemy after they beat you. I want them to feel the same pain and humiliation I’m feeling, only worse. I want A-Rod or someone to hit the last home run at the Metrodome, and see them slink away in shame. It’s a terrible instinct, but it’s a true one.
I've been searching Fox Sports videos to try to find the Inge, Cabrera, Leyland, etc, interviews from last night
No luck. Apparently Cabrera broke down into tears while he was talking to the media (they did not show this on FSD).
You could tell Leyland had been crying at some point before they interviewed him
His face was all red and his eyes were still watery.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Why the Twins had late-season sucess and the Tigers late-season failure
TWINS
Age Player
23 Young
23 Gomez
25 Span
25 Casilla
26 Mauer
26 Morales
27 Kubel
27 Tolbert
29 Harris
30 Cuddyer
31 Punto
== glue factory line
35 Cabrera (late season rent-a-bat)
DET
26 Cabrera
26 Thomas
28 Raburn
28 Granderson
30 Santiago
30 Laird
==== glue factory line
32 Everett
32 Huff (late season rent-a-bat)
32 Thames
32 Inge
34 Polanco
34 Guillen
35 Ordonez
Yankees are pretty old too
They just have much better old players and have a jet stream in their new billion dollar bandbox that enhances it even more. Twins have had to stay young because it was the only was they could field a team – once their players got older they cost more money and the organization had to let them walk for budgetary reasons.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
2008 Tampa Bay Rays
The 2008 Rays were similarly young and they beat the over-the-hill White Sox and the over-the-hill Red Sox.
Hopefully, the Twins beat both the Yanks and Red Sox this year.
Tigers won’t contend again until Inge is off the roster after 2010 and they can get a top caliber third-baseman. Unless they eat Inge’s salary in 2010, which they might if they find a Pablo Sandoval or Gordon Beckham in their farm system.
Also, I think that for these old guys like Inge the season becomes too long and they lose focus in the 2nd half on a day-in, day-out basis. Sure, Inge could will himself to get a hit and an RBI once in a blue moon in the 2nd half. But the baseball season is all about hitting for average and getting on base as often as you can. Inge didn’t do that at all in the 2nd half (.186 avg in the 2nd half, .260 OBP).
The wins pile-up when you get those 2 out hits down by run in late July and early August in Cleveland. And then you win those games and you don’t end up choking away the season in Game 163.
Yeah, Inge could get up enough to hit a HR for some kid when he really, really felt like it and really, really tried. But that’s nowhere near good enough for major league play. You gotta come to the ballpark and give a 110% every day. The Twins did that in August and September and now October. The Tigers did not.
wait until Inge gets both knees functional
Then see what he does before anyone throws him overboard.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Inge ain't getting any younger
Inge has declined in production as he’s gotten older, as do all major league players (unless they use PEDs to stave off the inevitable):
Inge’s battting average by year
2006 .261
2006 .253
2007 .236
2008 .205
2009 .230
The smart money is on Inge hitting like he did in 2007, 2008 and all but 2 months of 2009 (only in April and June this season did Inge hit higher than his .236 career avg )
April .319 (pitchers facing him for the 1st time this yr?)
May .236 (right on his career avg)
Jun .287 (inter-league play + facing some AL teams for the 1st time in 2009)
Jul . 182
Aug .184
Sep .216 (well done, Brandon)
Oct .100 ( 1 for 15 against the White Sox and 1 for 5 last night)
And he led the Tigers in strikeouts, 170 for the season. It wasn’t even close. Granderson is next highest with 141, but Grandy had more at-bats:
K’s AB’s K’s Per AB
170 562 3.3 (INGE)
631 141 4.5 (GRANDY)
And Inge, of course, led the Tigers in errors this season.
I understand people like Inge. I like the guy too. I also like my friend Chuck. Doesn’t mean I want Chuck playing 3B for the Detroit Tigers.
Tho I do think that if the Tigers had made the playoffs, they would’ve likely done well—most likely better than the Twins will.
Teams like the 2008 Rays and the 2006 Tigers and the 2007 Rockies ended up losing to more veteran teams in the World Series. The 2009 Twins remind me of those teams.
If the veteran teams can stay motivated enough throughout the regular season to make the post-season, they should do better than the younger teams in the playoffs.
It’s those games late in the season in Cleveland and Chicago that the old and tired Tigers couldn’t be bothered to win that cost them the season.
The young and energetic Twins went into Chicago in September and swept a 4 game series. Tigers went 2-4 against the White Sox in the last 2 weeks of the season.
Tigers just didn’t do the work in the late regular season they needed to do to get to the post-season this year; where their veterans would’ve come alive.
Yeah, that really shows it.
That Ordoñez guy, completely worthless down the stretch.
Swing, giant miss. Sorry dude. Age ain’t nothing but a number sometimes. I certainly wouldn’t call a 32yo ballplayer destined for a glue factory.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
next morning and I still feel miserable
So close so many times – and they just couldn’t finish it. Ugh.
There aren’t enough colons and parentheses to make a large enough bunch of sad faces to express my depression.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
as for watching any more baseball
I don’t know. Right now that game has completely destroyed my desire to turn the television on to a baseball game ever again. Maybe in a week or so.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
I woke up around 4am thinking about last night
and never really went back to sleep. this feels awful.
Couldn't go to sleep
Went to bed, had to get back up. Didn’t drop until about 2:30am, and then didn’t fall asleep for a while.
Fuck.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
i have gone from sad to angry
Angry at Marsh for the blown call on Inge and for callibg out Polly on a pitch nine inches inside. Angry at Leyland for pulling Rick, for leaving Rodney in, and for not squeezing. Angry, mostly, at the whole team for putting themselves in an imossible situation. There was no way we were going to win a must game in the hellhole. Angry at the Twins for playing in a hellhole.
by rook34 on Oct 7, 2009 9:01 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I guess I'll have to force myself to get\ back into Hockey and Basketball...
Last year it was so easy…
I’m actually REALLY excited for college basketball surprisingly. Michigan should be even better this year.
By the way...
Not only is Lynn Henning a crotchety old man, but he CAN’T SPELL (emphasis mine):
what would likely undue manager Jim Leyland’s team
And then he does it AGAIN:
And he’ll due this without any blank checks.
That's just lazy copy editing
It’s since been fixed, but fuck how does a thing like that go live?
2100 Woodward and Twitter
So...
This one is hurting more than the Red Wings loss… At least then the Tigers season was fully blossoming… The Red Wings just started and are 0-2 and the Pistons have only played one pre-season game.
What the hell am I going to do for the next few weeks?
What the hell am I going to do for the next five months?
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
My thing is that I don't watch football, basketball, or hockey
I suppose I could, but it wouldn’t have the same passion.
Plus I’m faced with the daunting task of trying to recap this game on my blog, as well as come up with a season review in the next few days. I’m definitely more level-headed than most, but it’s still gonna be a challenge.
(And it’s probably not the best idea to write about this game in a school computer lab, but I don’t have any choice).
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
every second lloyd mcclendon isn't fired
is like a dagger in my heart. C’mon, do they have something better to do this morning?
Well, this is probably the truth
The blame here can’t just be on Lloyd. It’s not like these guys didn’t know how the hell to hit a baseball, they’re all big league guys. McClendon absolutely had a lot to do with guys falling apart down the stretch (unless the nameplate says Ordoñez I guess) and he’ll probably end up being the big public scapegoat that the firebreathing dicks on The Ticket won’t be able to shut up about. That is of course if they take a breath from constantly calling for Leyland’s head.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
2010
I’m already looking forward to it.
Tigers vs. White Sox. It’s going to be a battle. We’ll need Mr. Illitch to step out on a limb one more time for us…
A lifelong Tigers fan
Shout-Outs
Was at the ballgame last night.
Twins Fans
I’ll be rooting for Minnesota from here on out. I’ve been an away rooter on plenty of occasions, but this was the most welcoming group of fans I’ve ever met. They also were LOUD! They got up for an 0-2 count like they’d just won the World Series. Amazing!
Folks on De Plane
So many Tigers fans on the flights to and from Minneapolis. Singing “Eat ’Em Up Tigers” on a Delta Flight is one of those surreal experiences in life. Also, way to be cool about it, Minneapolis-based flight crew.
Dave, Juan, and the usher lady
We hung out during batting practice down by home plate just off toward the 1st base side (thank you usher lady who not only let us down there but took a photo of us!). And who was there but Dave Winfield! Thames is the only Tiger who saw him, and Marcus’ eyes lit up like a kid.
Later in the game, while watching the 11th inning through a gate hole with one foot started toward the airport, we ended up chatting with Juan Berenguer.
.
Nice guy. Had on a really bad sweater (and might have been the only guy in the building not wearing at least some team apparel). But nice guy. He won a Series with both teams (and also lost to the Twins in ‘91 while wrapping up his career in Atlanta), and said the teams he’s been on who went to the World Series kind of knew that’s where they were going all year. He said Verlander is going to be the best pitcher in baseball at some point in his career.
Oh yeah, the ballgame
Best game of baseball I’ve ever been present to witness. I can live with this. The Tigers were a .500 ballclub this year which way outperformed its talent. They gave us some riveting games through September and capped it off with a ballgame-for-the-ages a week into October. I don’t know if ending like this, or as the sacrificial lamb for New York’s American League franchise would make a more suitable ending. Probably this.
I don't think we overachieved
They made it to the range which I believed they could play at (85-90 wins; they finished with 86). And there’s still a lot of talent left, particularly on the pitching end. I’m not sure it’ll be as easy for them to contend next year (the White Sox are going to have some really tough pitching, and I still think the Indians will be better than most think, though they probably won’t contend).
Pythagorean W-L: 81-82
I’ve been back and forth on that statistic a hundred times, trying to determine if there’s any correlation to anything (manager, division strength, field, pitching rank vs. hitting rank, etc.) that could explain why some teams perform better or worse than their Pythagorean W-L record.
The only thing that correlates is Days in 1st Place. A team in 1st has a better chance of outperforming its actual level of play. No idea why.
So in other words: we got the best imaginable season from these guys that we could have.
It was there to win this year. Next year will be tougher.
Chicago’s starters will be great, but their pen is a mess, and some of their bombers will be gone. Minnesota will have to make up for the 10 or so wins they get every year from the hellhole. It’ll be a much more level playing field outside.
We have our own concerns, among them a likely rebuilt bullpen and major uncertainties at the 4 and 5 starter positions.
We should have won this year.
So much for the cliche of "It's a marathon, not a sprint"
Apparently the Twins picked up Usain Bolt when they lost Justin Morneau.
by SabreRoseTiger on Oct 7, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
How lame am I?
I was re-reading my 2008 season review in preparation for my 2009 season review, and I noticed that last year, when I was discussing potential closers, I referred to Brandon Lyon as “Brendan Lyon.” That must’ve been the guy we had in April who sucked and then Brandon Lyon took over. Oh, well, there’s a reason my website is named what it is.
The bottom line about this tiger team.
They could not hit in the clutch down the stretch.Aubrey huff was hardly no help except one game.In my mind tigers did not make good trades to help the team.If we had got Matt Holiday tigers would be facing yankees.Dave Dombrowski did a terrible job for the tigers as far as trades go.Theres no guarantee tigers will be in the same position next year.So i blame Dombrowski why the tigers did not make it to the post season.
*blink*
Just who the hell do you let go for Holiday?
Listen folks, can we calm down the crazy trade talks? I know the Cabrera/Willis trade just turned this machine into super-fuck-overdrive mode and it’s never been shut down but yikes.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Also
DD has exactly what to do with the other 25 guys? Like bringing in Holliday would suddenly make the other eight batters start smacking away or something.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
maybe he has problems with his baseball immune system. :D
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Tigers were not willing to give up a quality minor league player.
They thought they could get to the post season cheaply.They had to give up something to get a quality hitter like Matt Holiday.Tigers were not willing,and it cost them.I’m sure Mike illitch wouldve said get Holliday.Dave probally said oh we can win without giving up much.
Wait... what the hell dude?
Do you fact check at all? 4th highest payroll in baseball. I’m not quite sure how that is getting to the post-season cheaply.
If you know anything about the history of Illitch and Dombrowski (which you don’t) then you’d know that the scenario you suggest just wouldn’t happen. In the winter meetings of 2007 ahead of the 2008 season, Illitch mentioned to DD that he heard Cabrera was available from Florida. DD responded that he heard it, but wasn’t sure if the Tigers had the package to send Florida that would jar away their franchise player and a potential HoFer. Illitch responded that he would dig as deep in his wallet as necessary, and he thought Cabrera would look good in a Tigers uni. The trade was done the next day and included Willis.
Illitch is not an absent owner. If you are a Red Wings fan, you know that the ownership and GM of that team (as well as the Tigers) work in very close harmony. Illitch is a sports man, a Detroit man, and he’s here to win championships. He’s not some ownership group, he’s not some old man who had too much money at some point in the past.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Since I had the sheet up, I figure I would mention this. Of the top 10 payrolls in baseball, only 5 of those teams made the playoffs (Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers). And honestly, how fast have we forgotten the 2008 Rays? They made the playoffs on a three-buck budget.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
mostly
Illitch was an absent owner from when I started following the Tigers as a kid in 96 up until the early-to-mid aughts. It seemed to me that he only cared about the Red Wings—-I actively hated him pretty much all through high school, at which point I stopped caring.
At least he’s manned up now and tried to make the team a contender. I just wish we could go into a season where we’re expected to do well and actually do well—-this year and 06, nobody expected jack of us, but in 2007 we were supposed to be serious World Series contenders and we didn’t even make the playoffs.
What if the price for Holliday was some pitching?
Say for instance they insisted on Porcello. You can’t make a trade by throwing crap you don’t want at someone and taking back a quality player.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Man, wouldn't THAT have been a nightmare
No Porcello and nothing to show with it after this season (Holliday is going to the highest bidder as a Boras client).
2100 Woodward and Twitter
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