No Fire Sale? Media Links Closers to Tigers
This might qualify as a news flash: a couple of writers in the traditional baseball media aren't suggesting the Tigers trade off players to reduce payroll (or subsidize the Yankees and Red Sox). Instead, they think Detroit should stay in contention by adding a key piece to their bullpen.
First, FOXSports.com's Dayn Perry lists 10 moves that teams should make this offseason to improve themselves. His suggestion for the Tigers? Sign Billy Wagner:
Detroit is in contending mode, so the wise play would be to resist the temptation to sell off and instead take calculated risks. Since the AL Central is so winnable (and since the Tigers came within a hairsbreadth of a division title this past season), tweaks at the margins might be enough. One tweak could be adding Wagner.
(Thanks to SabreRoseTiger for posting this in the comments yesterday.)
Wagner missed most of the season with an elbow injury, pitching in only 17 games. But after he recovered (and was traded by the Mets), he posted a 1.58 ERA and 22 strikeouts in 13.4 innings for the Red Sox.
Given his injury history and age (Wagner will turn 39 next season), perhaps he'd be looking for a lower-cost, one-or-two-year deal on the free agent market.
The other suggestion is made by USA Today's Paul White, who lists the top 10 free agents and predicts where they'll end up. White's destination for Jose Valverde? Your Detroit Tigers.
More closers are on the market than teams willing to commit significant money for one. That gives the Houston Astros a shot at keeping him. In the end, a contender takes the plunge.
(Hat tip to Bill Ferris for passing this along.)
I don't think we have a match here. Yes, the Tigers want a veteran closer. And Valverde is the top one available. However, he's also a free agent for the first time, and will surely be looking to cash in. (He made $8 million last season to avoid arbitration.) That doesn't fit how the Tigers apparently want to do business this winter (nor was it their approach last year).
But if, as White believes, there aren't that many teams looking for a top-tier ninth-inning reliever, maybe Valverde would be willing to take a shorter, cheaper contract and try free agency again when the market improves. That didn't happen last year, however, and it probably won't this time around.
Valverde pitched in 52 games for the Astros this season, racking up 25 saves in 29 opportunities, along with a 4-2 record and 2.33 ERA. He struck out 56 batters and walked 21 in 54 innings, his lowest totals in three years. Ankle and calf injuries kept him out early in the season.
So while it might be refreshing to get a break from the fire sale scenarios that so much of the baseball media seems to be envisioning for Detroit, are these realistic options for the Tigers? Can they make these moves without dealing off some of the players that have been discussed?
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Guillen for Cordero
Provided the Reds want to dump him… they add a veteran bat they can play either at 3B or in a corner OF spot and they save a million bucks. We get a pretty darn good closer.
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by demondeaconsbaseball on Nov 18, 2009 12:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No Papa Grande
Take it from someone who watched Jose Valverde “close” games with the Diamondbacks not long ago: this guy is Todd Jones and Fernando Rodney combined. In other words, if you’ve enjoyed the late innings the past few seasons, you’ll love Valverde.
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by MikeMcClary on Nov 18, 2009 12:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I’m against signing anyone who was sharing the closer role with LaTroy Hawkins. I would like to see what the price is for Rafael Soriano. I’m not hearing much talk of the Braves trying to re-sign him or Mike Gonzales
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by rock n rye on Nov 18, 2009 1:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Yes to Wagner, No to anyone else mentoned!
Make Santiago the everyday SS he deserves it and is getting much better at the plate and in the field when used on consecutive games. Sign Wagner, if his shoulder is better with an MRI and full therapy session after throwing physical. Have him throw fifty pitches on five consecutive days then do the MRI and make sure you are not getting dammaged goods. If not make Lyon the closer and use Bobby pay him the money Seay as the set-up guy. Let someone else deal with the immaturity that cost the Tigers the division…..Rodney!!
by Marcmargolis on Nov 18, 2009 1:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have to say
I don’t understand why so many people are willing to give a below-average hitter, below-average fielder the job at short.
I like Ramon, but he is what he is. And what he is, is a nice guy to have off the bench.
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 18, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why bother with Wagner?
He’s old, pricey and a closer (meaning not worth the money unless named Rivera). Detroit has a ton of relief arms so let’s use those and use any money we can for a SS.
by 13194013 on Nov 18, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to take psychology into account, though
It’s one thing to say that the ninth is “just another inning,” and that’s probably true, but it’s had such an aura thrust around it that a lot of good relievers let it get into their heads. Some only thrive in save situations (all you have to look at is Rodney’s ERA in save vs non-save situations; the guy walked a tightrope pretty much all the time, but the reason for the ERA split has to be mental). Others are dominant in the 8th inning but falter once they’re brought in to close. Psychology is a tough thing to change. It would take a lot of effort to “de-program” them, so to speak. That said, my baseball guru would agree with you, but for a much different reason: He’s old school and thinks the starters should finish their own games.
by SabreRoseTiger on Nov 18, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or luck
Rodney could have had a better ERA in save situations because he got lucky.
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by demondeaconsbaseball on Nov 19, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt there was luck involved
I’ve said so myself in past comments (which is why I’d rather go after Lyon than Rodney, as long as Lyon doesn’t ask for too much).. But it’s exceptionally difficult to sustain THAT much luck over the course of an entire season.
by SabreRoseTiger on Nov 19, 2009 7:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Overrated...
Closers – especially high-priced closer acquisitions – are tremendously overrated and risky.
There are arguably TWO dominant closers who played major roles on Championship teams since the late 80’s: Eckersley & Rivera (both of whom played on teams with multiple strong starters and high-octane offenses).
The road is littered with guys who’ve failed, often at very high expense to their employer. For every Brad Lidge ‘08, there’s Brad Lidge ’07 and ’09.
I would argue that most managers would be better served by abandoning the practice of managing for the “save” stat (bringing in the “closer” to finish games in the 9th, no matter opponent/hitters/ballpark/history) and play the matchups to finish games instead.
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by rings on Nov 18, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wagner is a intreging possibility
But Rings is dead on. Unfortunately baseball has created this mentality that only certain guys can finish off a game when there is a 1 – 3 run lead. Obviously I wouldn’t throw a Zach Miner into a game when there’s a 1 run lead, but teams just believe they need that shutdown guy. Why shouldn’t Bobby Seay come out in the 9th to face a Big Papi but instead Rodney comes out because that’s what the league is accustomed to? Never made perfect sense to me – match ups sometimes are just the way to go.
All you truly need is a hot pitcher. Rodney did a great job, but after Lyon settled in, he probably would have done equally as well. If Ryan Perry can control his stuff, he could shut down teams in the 9th. So could Zoom Zoom if he’s ever healthy and stops throwing 103 MPH beach balls up there.
If the Tigers sign a closer, I don’t mind Wagner at all. I want no part of Jose. I’ll take Lyon or Wagner, I’m just not sold on Fernando. Hopefully both those guys will come at a decent price, nothing that will break the bank.
by KidRick48 on Nov 18, 2009 2:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Closers
It’s not that the closer role ought not to exist—there is something to be said for having a guy who can come in with no one out and no one on in the 9th, and get 3 outs without anything happening.
The most valuable person to have in a bullen, though, is a good setup guy—someone you can call upon in the late innings to come in and get out of a jam. The guy you want pitching to ARod with the bases loaded and one out in the 8th.
by rea on Nov 18, 2009 3:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Personally...
I think bullpen roles are entirely a bad thing. You have a few guys in your pen who have set “jobs” who pitch all the time while you have a bunch guys who mostly sit around and get rusty. So than you have your best arms quickly wearing themselves out and others who are having trouble keeping themselves game ready.
Obviously, your always going to give the most work to the guys who pitch the best, but I’m what I’m trying to say is that the work is not spread out well enough anymore. In all actuality this is what the Tigers bull pen essentially was. Fu Te Ni, Zach Minor, Seay, Lyon, Rodney. That leaves a bunch of guys just sitting around as “specialists.”
My solution: If you have a guy who comes in and is pitching well, let him pitch. If the shit starts to hit the fan, than bring in someone to clean up the mess. We have clean up hitters, why not replace the closer with a “cleanup-pitcher?”
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by madpoopz on Nov 19, 2009 9:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Because bullpen pitchers have fragile egoes
This works if you have the talent (which we may in a few years) but pitchers tend to get testy if you use them as cleanup guys as opposed to closers- they get paid for saves. There’s also the pretty important argument that bullpen pitchers thrive when they get defined roles- I can buy that.
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by demondeaconsbaseball on Nov 19, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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