Today's Game: Who's! The! Closer?
by Ian Casselberry on Dec 10, 2009 1:00 PM EST
in News
84 comments
If you didn't already grasp the idea that the 2010 Detroit Tigers baseball club would look different from the 2009 edition, further evidence of that came last night with the news that Brandon Lyon was set to sign with the Houston Astros.
Earlier in the evening, there were rumblings that Lyon was looking for a two-year, $9 million contract, in light of the two-year, $7.5 million deal LaTroy Hawkins signed with the Milwaukee Brewers. And that probably would've been too rich for the Tigers.
So when Lyon ends up agreeing to a three-year, $15 million contract, it's probably safe to say Detroit was never really in the running to re-sign him. Unfortunately, this is the guy the Tigers were presumably hoping would be their closer in 2010. Now, they probably have to go to "Plan B."
But if "Plan B" was Fernando Rodney, he might not be available, either. (I'm thinking Rodney wasn't the Tigers' Plan B, however.) Dave Dombrowski called it "a long shot." And now that the Phillies have lost out on Lyon, they might be targeting Rodney. The buzz around Rodney has almost been non-existent during the offseason, though there were rumblings in early November that the Phillies were interested.
(via The Detroit Tigers Weblog)
Even a lower-cost veteran reliever like J.J. Putz, which seemed like a near-ideal fit for the Tigers, might be out of reach. Reports out of Chicago have the White Sox nearing an agreement with him.
These developments might leave Detroit with no other choice but to go with an in-house option. And considering the investment this team has made in young relievers over the past three years (including the two just acquired in the Curtis Granderson-Edwin Jackson trade), maybe that's a direction the Tigers should've gone in anyway.
Could Joel Zumaya be the first candidate for the closer job? Dombrowski said the team feels he's ready. That might make a lot of fans cringe, given his recent injury. (And surely, the Tigers are nervous about that, as well.) But if he is healthy - and that's been such a big "if" over the past three years - he may be the best choice.
Zumaya has four seasons of experience (not four full seasons, mind you), and if you're a believer that a closer needs to have a certain mindset, being "the man" for the ninth inning appears to be a role he relishes. Plus - and this is not an unimportant point - Jim Leyland seems to trust him.
If Zumaya ends up being the favorite, however, the Tigers need an insurance policy. That's where the depth of young relievers comes in.
Should Ryan Perry be next in line? Zach Miner? (Leyland seems to prefer that sinker for groundball situations, though.) Casey Fien didn't impress all that much in his first two major league stints, but he did save 14 games for the Mud Hens. Is Cody Satterwhite (12 saves with Double-A Erie this year) ready for the big leagues? Robbie Weinhardt? What about Daniel Schlereth?
Who else would you like to see get a shot?
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I know I might be alone in this one
But I want Schlereth to give it a try. I don’t trust Zoom and I really think Schlereth has the tools to be a good closer. Two above average pitches, that’s all you really need.
The artist formerly known as Granderson28
Him or Perry
Mix and match- should all work out.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
You know what the scary part is?
With a new, or unproven closer taking the hill in 9th innings this year, we might not get to retire that roller coaster pic/
Official BYB Juju Consultant...now accepting rally creature applications!
Hey, that roller coaster picture has a long and proud history
It just would feel wrong somehow if we can’t find SOME occasion to use it.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Rodney was damn near perfect this season and it was still used.
I can’t see anyone filling in the closer role next year who wouldn’t require it.
OR develop some sort of stat comparing defined stressful save innings to non-stressful save innings, then decide if it’s needed…..I don’t know. The picture is hilarious though.
I know
As much as I wish we wouldn’t have need for it (as in, have a lights-out closer who comes in and strikes out the side in order every single time), I’d kind of miss it. It does have character.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Use the picture anyway. It’s hilarity is reason enough for the roller coaster.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find someone to pin it on
Come to think of it, we’re kind of in the midst of a fire sale of Gamethread images, aren’t we?
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
If things stay as they are
I would love to see how things go in spring training, and if Zumaya is healthy, let him close until he breaks down again. Seay would be my second choice, with Coke, Perry and Schlereth as setup men, and Ni, Fien, and Miner filling out the pen. We’ve definitely got some arms.
I think we’d be fine to stand pat. Our money would be better spent trying to acquire a mid-level starter.
A lifelong Tigers fan
Seay as closer
And then flip him next year for something nice… I like that.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
To start the year, it has to be Zumaya or Perry.
Weinhardt and Schlereth still need to prove they’re even ready for the majors in spring training.
Yes
I don’t know that much about Weinhardt, but Schlereth needs to be able to throw strikes a bit better before you hand him the closer’s job (15 walks in 18.1 IP this year in the majors). That’s something that Rick Knapp is supposed to be able to do, but I think it’s a gradual sort of thing.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
I have a sinking feeling...
that it might be closer by committee for awhile until someone really, truly emerges ready for the job.
In-house, but...
…other than that, I don’t really care. We basically spent an entire draft (2008) acquiring polished bullpen arms, and we just got 2 more. Use them. Let them all try out, run closer by committee if you have to. We’re the source of future closers at this point, not where they get traded to.
What is really cool is that between Schlereth and Zumaya/Perry, we might have left-handed scary fastball and right-handed scary fastball. Maybe we can manage Glass Joel’s innings a little bit better, so that he doesn’t break down.
I don't want to hear any weak sh*t from Jason Grilli.
I think ryan perry and zoom should each get a shot
Ryan deserves it due to all the hard work he put in last year. I think with zoom we just need to see what the hell his deal is for now, find out if he has any control. if he’s good, use him until he injures himself again.
Zumaya should just be put in a straightjacket, immobilized, and locked in the bullpen until it's time for him to warm up
Anything to minimize the risk. :-)
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Hannibal Lecter style?
That would be intimidating. I suggest they wheel him out to the mound on a gurney like that and then unstrap him and let him go. Maybe Nick Punto would pee his pants…
by ChrisDTX on Dec 10, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dude, that's awesome
If I didn’t have an exam to study for, I would so totally try to do a Photoshop of that.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Sure!
And don’t forget the bubble wrap.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
Suffocaiton is an injury
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 11, 2009 1:19 AM EST up reply actions
We wouldn't wrap it around his head:-p
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 11, 2009 5:22 AM EST up reply actions
Just checking...
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 11, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
IF Zumaya is healthy
that IF should be in about size 50 font. I love the guy, but I have a feeling he’ll just be “that guy” that could never get over the injury bug. and some of that is luck, like when a box fell on his throwing shoulder when he was helping his parents move during the Cali wildfires a couple years ago. part of that is stupidity, like doing kegstands (http://drunkathlete.com/2008/09/08/joel-zumaya-keg-stand/) while on the DL and playing guitar hero excessively. IF only that IF were a bit smaller!
ucka
my brain is getting worn out by all of this stuff. My gut is still telling me to stay in house. Besides, what are our outside options again?
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
Fernando Rodney, Kevin Gregg, or JJ Putz.
None on which I would spend more than two million.
by StringTheory on Dec 10, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Totally forgot to mention Gregg
Oops.
by Ian Casselberry on Dec 10, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
There's also Mike Gonzalez and Jose Valverde, but either of them would cost us a draft pick
I can’t imagine that would be too attractive. At least, it isn’t to me. Not for one year of the guy.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
hmm...
I’d say Zoom at this point having not yet seen Schlereth pitch more than a 1/4 of a season, and not really having faith in the others as “ice in the veins” closers. Problem with glass Joel (other than the obvious injuries) is the straightness of his fastball. Sure it’s 103mph, but this is the bigs. A lot of these guys can put the bat on the ball while Zoom provides the power.
I say Perry ...
cuz honestly for the season he didnt walk much more than Rodney. Rodney walked 4.9 per 9 and Perry 5.58. BUT after his mid-season demotion his walks per nine dropped to 4.48 … there was a marked improvement IMO and had a better K rate … if he no work than Zumaya I guess
I insist
that the new closer have a name that is a homonym of an animal. Preferably the set-up man’s name, when placed before the closer’s name, will also describe an animal. Do we have two guys in the farm system named, oh, Germán and Shepherd?
Roommates
Yeah, it ain’t an animal, but we can call Perry and Schlereth the Roommates. Or, I suppose, if you insist, the Wildcats, with them both having been in the U of Arizona bullpen.
At some point during spring training or perhaps in April we are going to have to come up with nicknames for Scherzer and Schlereth
Because their names sound too similar (It’d be like Raburn/Rabelo all over again, only worse) and they are difficult to type, especially Schlereth.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
I like that
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
The Gas and Glass Express
Give it to Joel, let him get injured in May, struggle through June, July by committee, find one in August when we’re ten games out and go into 2011 with at least a semblance of a shutdown pullben.
Did I just say what I want to happen, or what actually will happen?
I root for the Tigers, Pistons, Red Wings and yes, the Lions.
www.twitter.com/zajareich
Jeez
If that happens, I think I’ll be venting in like every game thread…
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
No, Joel . . .
. . . will have a year like the 2009 Rodney—good on paper but driving us crazy. Then, in Game 163 against the Twins, he’ll give up the tying HR to Mauer in the top of the 10th . . . what happens next I’ll leave to your imagination.
Game 163 almost killed me
But I’ll take it over the Tigers 1988-2005 Tiger template any year.
You could be a . . .
. . .Twin fan, and have your game 163 every year!
Didn't you just describe the closing situation of the 2008 Rays?
And look where they got.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
We got tons of arms
let them pitch in spring training and let Jim decide. Jim made some great decisions with the bullpen last year, and we had a solid bullpen throughout. I don’t think we need to get anyone….JJ Putz would be the only dude I’d get cuz he’s cheap
+1
This sounds about right.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Better yet...
Maybe our starters can pitch so efficiently that they’ll throw complete games all the time and we won’t even need a bullpen. :-)
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
He's too busy trying to save the Lions
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly
At this point, I’m hoping the boys can get to a point in enough games where they’ll actually NEED a closer.
Young Gunz
I think I’m alone in this thought…
I’d say continue with the cost cutting mode and let the young gunz log some innings so they are ready for 2011.
Miner
Ni
Schlereth
Weinhardt
Satterwhite
Perry
Zumaya
Paying Gregg or Putz tons of cash seems risky
thoughts
by JAYRC on Dec 10, 2009 5:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Looks pretty good
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Paying Gregg or Putz tons of cash seems risky
And the charming thing is, if we don’t pay out tons of cash for a veteran reliever, we might be able to afford a lefthanded hitting outfielder . . .
MILTON BRADLEY!
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Now I know you've lost it if you're advocating Milton Bradley to be our closer :-)
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
rea said LH hitting OF
Bradley hits switch… that’s close.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Can we put Bradley in the Hannibal Lecter getup too?
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Incredible Hulk when he gets angry?
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Am I the only one
who thinks that this has the makings of a pretty good bullpen. At least an intriguing one, what with all of the youth and mph out there. Perry had his moments of dominance. Schlereth throws really hard. Zumaya…well, whatever. I won’t beat that dead horse. Weinhardt could be in the mix. Heck, maybe Bonderman ends up out there.
I definitely think it has potential, so long as they can avoid walking people
Like I said last night, I think the team as is still has a decent shot at the division in 2010, largely because of the pitching.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
We're going to require players to step up
But we definitely have a shot.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, no doubt
But the ability is there, the potential is there, and the talent is there. It all comes down to execution.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely.
I’ve felt that way about this team all off-season. The fact is, our pitching has just gotten a little younger but ON PAPER looks like it’ll be just as good as last year. If that’s the case and the players who didn’t produce (Magglio 1st half, Inge 2nd half, Miggy after a brew, Guillen, etc) actually live up to their lifetime averages in many categories, this team will be over .500 and in contention for the division.
The Twins will always be right there, and the White Sox have awesome starting pitching, though once you get past them I think their pen will just collapse on them more times then not, and then the Tigers will be able to keep up with a good rotation and a solid pen.
2010 is not going to be a bad year, IMO. It’s just not going to be 2006 where we’re in a playoff spot a week and a half before the season ends.
The artist formerly known as Granderson28
I think Cleveland's also going to be slightly better than most expect, but...
If it’s a neck-and-neck battle for first place between us and the Twins/White Sox right down to the end, I’ll take it.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 10, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Not alone!
Young talented relievers under team control for many years!
by JAYRC on Dec 10, 2009 6:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Twins?
Anyone else feel like we are becoming the Minnesota Twins?
Slashing the payroll
Trying to improve our defense
Loading up on young arms
by JAYRC on Dec 10, 2009 6:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Verlander/Scherzer/Porcello
Is better than Slowey/finesse ptichers.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 10, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately...
Their ideals have worked. There’s a reason they’re always in contention year in and year out. Hell, I think Ron Gardenhire is one of the best managers in baseball, if not the best, he’s just in a location where no one gives a darn. If DD is trying to follow Minnesota’s mold, I have no problem with that.
Thankfully, because Detroit is a bigger market than Minny, we can then go out and afford a Miguel Cabrera and spend near 90 million on a team and get what it takes to put us over the top and through the first round of the playoffs, rather then falter like the Twins have done, but only once this team has matured its young guys enough where the spending is not in vain. I think 2010 will be fun as always but if these guys all get a solid year of experience, 2011 could be, for many of these young guys, their “establishment” years.
Kind of like JV did this year when he made himself into a true ace, you’ll see Porcello, Scherzer, Schlereth, Coke, Perry, etc all turn from sophomores into true veterans of the league, and it could be very, very exciting to watch them all progress into good pitchers. If all of them pan out, which is actually very possible, you’d have possibly the top pitching staff in baseball in only two years time.
I may be a little out there, but I think I’m making some sense (I hope). I just forsee these guys that are all about the same age and have the same amount of experience to all flourish at one time and really solidify this staff. Now DD has to hope guys like Jackson, Sizemore, Wells, etc, start to pan out as well, we need a run here or there too.
The artist formerly known as Granderson28
See if Kevin Gregg will take some pay cuts
Or, hey, if Putz is going to Chicago see if Jenks is bored. Say what you will about Mr. Bleached Soulpatch, it’d be a cheap alternative for a season.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Anyone but Kevin Gregg
Honestly…….if you thought rodney and jones were roller coasters over the past few years……..
Okay, I guess I will be the first...
No ZUMAYA for closer, please! Last year I was advocating them bringing up Fien to groom for this year, but with the emergence of Ryan Perry, I think Perry should get a shot. Zumaya is terrible…He always hangs that freaking curve ball, and then when that gets hit a country mile, he rears back and throws ninety-seven with absolutely no movement….and then that gets sat on, and hit a country mile….I think the Tigers should step up and sign Putz. We can compete for this division on our pitching….
by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 10, 2009 7:25 PM EST reply actions
Pierre or Milton Bradley
Trade Guillen to the Dodgers for Pierre, and trade Nate Robertson or Willis to the cubs for Milton Bradley…If i did the math right, we save about three million more this year, but have Milton’s contract for next year…(but that should be okay as sixty million is coming off the books)……Its one hell of a long shot, but I honestly think this could make us more competitive…..OH, and one last thing, I don’t think Seay could ever be a closer, he just isn’t very good….
by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 10, 2009 7:31 PM EST reply actions
Hmm
Rodney’s sav record looked impressive last year, but we all know how that really went. He is a student of Todd Jones for sure. I say make people earn their money or move them on. If Rodney comes back, great, but I prefered him as a strong set up, short reliever. The division tie-breaker game was evidence of that. The longer he goes the stronger. In short situations… he has been known to load them up. I hear all this talk that Perry is the future… he’s getting paid, make him earn it before he really comes on, in his last year, and then we can’t afford him after that. Zoom-zoom… I think he can handle it, but do we really want to put our faith into someone who has yet to have a healthy season? Ability is nothing when you are on IR. If you add it all up, does he even have 2 seasons worth of playing time? I also question his arsenal. Fastball, change, curve? A sinker or splitter would in my opinion make him much more dangerous.
remember Rodney in none save situations????
and you prefer him in set up/short relief?
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