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Trade Guillen for Bradley

I want to preface this post by noting that I agreed with the Granderson trade from the moment Henning mentioned it during the season.  Yes it is risky, but the team got younger, more athletic, and cheaper. 

Milton Bradley fits the Tigers' needs.  The team needs a left-handed bat and the Cubs apparently will do anything to rid themselves of his contract and personality.  I understand the reservations concerning Bradley's reputation as a cancer, but Leyland can manage an individual of his sort.  If Bradley does not work out the team has limited risk as he has only two years remaining on his contract. 

Thoughts???

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.

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I've been pushing this since...

Well, it’s been a while. Bradley has a ton of upside and if we can salvage him, would really help alleviate the loss of Granderson.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 12, 2009 11:26 AM EST reply actions  

Way too much for Bradley

Guillen is way too much to give for a Bradley, who has two years remaining on his contract, instead of Guillen’s one….So, Bradley is not enough value, and he is more expensive….now juan pierre on the other hand, and give us Bradley for a Nate Robertson/Willis/Bonderman and we got something good going again….

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 12, 2009 12:03 PM EST reply actions  

Guillen and Bradley each have two years left on their contracts. Their salaries are similar in the 11-13 million range.

by NicholasR on Dec 12, 2009 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

NicholasR

My mistake, you are right. two years left for Guillen at 13 mill for 2010 and 2011.
http://www.dtownbaseball.com/2007/03/30/carlos-guillen-contract-welcome-in-detroit/

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 12, 2009 2:36 PM EST reply actions  

Pierre or Bradley

But who would you rather, Juan Pierre or Milton Bradley? Bradley could be a huge run producer for us, but Pierre could very well end up being a huge upgrade in left and leadoff…..

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 12, 2009 2:38 PM EST reply actions  

Again

Pierre cannot hit.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 13, 2009 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I prefer Bradley. His skills as a run producer will be more beneficial to the Tigers considering it looks like Austin Jackson has the capability to grow in to a good leadoff hitter. Secondly, I believe Bradley is a more proven commodity in the AL in contrast to Pierre. Juan Pierre success has been limited to the NL.

by NicholasR on Dec 12, 2009 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

Pierre’s success……Sorry.

by NicholasR on Dec 12, 2009 3:27 PM EST reply actions  

NO

Perhaps I’m partial because I live in the Chicago area and I hear about all the crap Bradley brings to the table that doesn’t make national headlines but there is no way I want Bradley. Your main point is that he is a switch hitter which was why the Cubs got him. The only problem is that last year he was garbage hitting left handed. If I am comparing Gullien to Bradley defensively I see 2 guys who have had their range diminished over the years by injuries but I would argue Gullien will pay attention more consistently than Bradley who had several mental errors in the field last year including throwing a live ball into the stands when he didn’t know how many outs there were. His work ethic in Chicago can be summarized as last one in, first one out. He gets suspended for ridiculous reasons, he suffers from self-inflicted injuries, he accusses fans of being racist (http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2009/aug/27/sports/chi-27-cubs-milton-bradley-aug27), this one I just found (http://www.ryanmcbain.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4947), his wife/mother of his children complain that their pre-school aged children who were being sent to expensive private schools were subject to racial slurs from students, teachers, administration and parents and he was suspended for the final two weeks of the year for conduct detrimental to the team. In ten seasons he has only once played in more than 126 games. And if all that is not enough, the talk in Chicago is that Milton Bradley will not be a Cub in 2010, whether that means they trade him or release him. I don’t believe there are any teams out there right now hot to trade for Milton Bradley. I believe the only ones calling Jim Hendry are doing so with the thought that the Cubs will pick up his entire contract or take on significantly more in bad contracts (a Tigers combo Gullien and Willis would be an example) or perhaps both. But that’s just my opinion.

I can't believe I ate the whole thing!

by tigerfaninChicago on Dec 12, 2009 6:38 PM EST reply actions  

agreed

I prefer Pierre just because I think he will get almost 200 more AB than Bradley if both of them were offered the same playing time….I know Bradley is a cancer, but if we can trade for Pierre and sign Bradley later than I am all for it…

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 12, 2009 7:31 PM EST reply actions  

wait a minute

You think Pierre will get 200 more at bats than Bradley … why?

by Kurt Mensching on Dec 12, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

because

 he seems to top out at 400 AB.
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=150396
… (and trust me, I followed this closely as I was always looking for a good bat to pick up in Roto league) There are very frustrating stretches where there doesn’t seem to be anything wrong, (bruises, fatigue, sore left knee, etc) and he doesn’t play for weeks at a time…I remember him even saying he doesn’t play when he is not 100%, "My agent was saying that Jon Daniels was telling him, ‘There are days when he doesn’t want to play because of his health.’ Well, you can get a healthy guy to go out there and play 162 games, but he won’t do what I did in 120."

"When you’re on one-year deals constantly, you’ve got to put up as good numbers as you can. When you have days where you’re not feeling like you can contribute, you’re not going to go out there, because you’re not going to want your numbers to suck. So, if you’re in a situation like I am now, if they want me to go out there when I’m feeling a little banged up, I’ve got no problem doing that because they’ve made the commitment to me."

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-bradley-comment/
 

The cubs made a huge commitment to him, and he definatly did not live up to his big talk.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 12, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't use at-bats to measure that

Use plate appearances.

If both players get 300 at bats and hit .300, but one takes 20 walks and the other takes 80 walks, who do you prefer?

In the case of Pierre vs. Bradley, both have similar numbers of at bats, but Bradley takes two to three times as many walks per season, so he’s getting on base more. Bradley’s career on-base percentage is .373.

As for trying to figure out who would get more plate appearances … you have to decide that based on how they would be used in Detroit, not how they’ve been used in the past.

by Kurt Mensching on Dec 13, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Bradley is a cancer

He has shown that on pretty much every team he has played for. Do not want!

by vanman on Dec 12, 2009 9:18 PM EST reply actions  

One last comment on Pierre

It seems Pierre can MATCH the same amount of AB as Milton Bradley can, WITHOUT a starting job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 380 AB! (granted that Manny was suspend, but really?) a guy with a starting job who never had less than 592AB, and at one time was hitting almost 700 AB year after year seems to me to be a bigger benefit than a guy who we cross our fingers to get 400……..Pierre said last year…
“The mental stuff, you can only control what you can control. You put all your work in and give it your all and let all the other stuff just be.”
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090912&content_id=6920774&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

That seems to be the EXACT opposite of the posted Bradley quotes….kinda funny now that I see the two quotes so close together….

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 12, 2009 11:30 PM EST reply actions  

And he still can't hit

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 13, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

People Keep Saying That...

So I must be missing something when I read his stats, I see a decent leadoff hitter. His relevant stats were better than Curtis’ Granderson’s last year (albeit he had half the AB’s).

by metatron5369 on Dec 13, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously?

His on base percentage was around .330 the last three seasons he started. He’s never slugged over .400 and his SB percentage is lower than 75%. Please explain to me what part of that screams “decent leadoff hitter” to you.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 13, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

200 hits says he can

If you can get two hundred hits in one season, I would guess that qualifies you as someone that COULD hit…..I am betting on 170 hits if he gets a full time gig somewhere…

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 13, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Batting average isn;t everything

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 13, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

You tell me...

Who we have or can get that is a better choice for the leadoff hitter spot.

Besides, it’s not like this is a long-termed deal, and it’s certainly better than the alternative with Milton Bradley being discussed.

by metatron5369 on Dec 13, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Milton Bradley

OBP of .400 on a regular basis, walks a lot. Barring him, how about Scott Sizemore and his OBP’s of around .380-.390 in the minors.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 13, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh

Milton Bradley’s a cancer and I wouldn’t want him in the clubhouse even if we weren’t rebuilding.

Sizemore… can he steal, or are you basing this simply on his ability to get on base?

by metatron5369 on Dec 14, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't know if stealing is necessarily important to the leadoff spot...

I look at that “runs scored” column. If it doesn’t consistently show around 100 in major league season than I don’t think you have any business being in the leadoff spot.

I know there are flaws in my evaluation of the spot and a bunch of things it doesn’t doesn’t take into account, but the leadoff hitters job is to get on base, make it around the basepaths, and score a run. How he does it really doesn’t matter, as long as it happens.

My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head

by madpoopz on Dec 14, 2009 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

Runs scored correlates to OBP and stolen bases don’t matter at the top of the lineup… they can actually be really risky.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 14, 2009 2:51 AM EST up reply actions  

This is an appropriate time to discuss what a leadoff hitter is

A leadoff hitter is a guy that leads off the 1st inning………
A leadoff hitter is NOT a guy that leads off every inning….
So…..ultimately it doesn’t matter too much about peripherals when it comes to leadoff hitting. Everybody leads off an inning at some point. Just saying……

by baum on Dec 14, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

see how much I agree with this point? I don’t +1 any subject line!

by Kurt Mensching on Dec 14, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

And he doesnt get on base either

Pierre makes outs over two thirds of the time.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 13, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Clubhouse chemistry is not as important as everyone thinks.

While Bradley may not be the greatest guy in the world to work with, his presence in the clubhouse probably has a negligible effect on the actual outcomes of games. There is nothing mystical or mysterious about baseball players: they are just highly paid dudes collecting paychecks. We all work with people we don’t like, but it doesn’t mean that we do a half-assed job because someone else is jerk. I see no reason why the same thing doesn’t hold true in a baseball clubhouse. Leyland agrees.

Let’s also not forget that while Guillen has a reputation as a clubhouse leader, he has also caused his share of problems, whether he is publicly complaining about his role on the team or making excuses for a poor start to the 2008 season. Leyland has called him out on at least one occasion for taking this public. Everyone but Carlos knows that he is no longer a capable defensive starter, so I’d be willing to bet that when he is inevitably relegated to DH or platooning this year (assuming he doesn’t hit the DL first), we will hear some more complaints from him.

At this point in their careers, Bradley simply has more upside than Guillen. Guillen has been in steady decline over the past several years. Bradley, on the other hand, had a monster year in 2008 and a mediocre year in 2009. I think I would also trust him in the field than I would trust Guillen. In Texas, Milton kept it pretty cool, with the exception of a few incidents. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of his problems in 2009 are a result of having to work with Lou Piniella. Frankly, I’m surprised their whole team isn’t nuts.

by Dberg on Dec 13, 2009 12:35 AM EST reply actions  

Eh...

I don’t think chemistry as important as it is in say football, but it is a powerful motivator.

I mean, remember 2005? We could very well still have Tram as our skipper if it wasn’t for that.

by metatron5369 on Dec 13, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Bradley

has played for 7 different clubs since 2000. That’s a whole lot of clubs. No one is doubting his abilities as a baseball player; however 7 clubs? Obviously there is a problem. A lot of drama goes with him. That’s most likely the reason he’s played for so many different teams in his short career.

I disagree. I think club house chemistry is important. If it were not an issue he’d probably still be with the Expos, Indians, Dodgers, Athletics, Padres, or Rangers. As it stands now the Cubs want to get rid of him. They are probably having such a hard time because of the way he acts.

No thanks. They can keep him and will probably have to as every one in MLB is getting wiser and wiser to his antics.

by Detroitchik on Dec 13, 2009 10:04 AM EST reply actions  

Left Handed bat

The thing about trading Guillen for a left-handed bat is that Guillen is already the Tigers’ primary left-handed bat. We need another left handed bat, not just a debatable incremental upgrade on the one we’ve got already.

by rea on Dec 13, 2009 10:34 AM EST reply actions  

EXACTLY

The only way I would be interested in Bradley would be if we were dumping one of our bad pitching contracts, i.e. Willis or Robertson. I’d rather have Guillen than Bradley, even without the whole “Clubhouse Cancer” thing.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on Dec 14, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Other options?

Since I got the conversation started…….

What other LH bats are available and fit for the Tigers?

by NicholasR on Dec 13, 2009 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

Try asking a Cubs fan what Milton Bradley brings from the left side.

Seriously, there may not be anyone else out there but Bradley was garbage last year from the left side.

I can't believe I ate the whole thing!

by tigerfaninChicago on Dec 13, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

ok...

I’ve tried looking at this without thinking about Bradley’s mouth/actions. If I had to choose between Pierre and Bradley…I’d take Pierre. Now we know stat’s behind these guys but I see a pretty good reason on the stat sheet to get Pierre over Bradley….games played in. Why trade a guy who’s gonna break down in Guillen for a guy who we don’t know can play a full season? We can at least expect Pierre to stay healthy for a season, bat decently for us, and bring some speed along the basepaths.

Now I’m gonna note that I’m basing this on batting stat’s only. I’m not looking at contract info and I don’t exactly understand defensive stats.

My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head

by madpoopz on Dec 13, 2009 2:18 PM EST reply actions  

Because

120 games of Bradley and 42 games of a replacement player produce a better offensive player than 162 games of Juan Pierre. Hell, trade for Bradley, sign Jack Cust and you have a replacement for when Bradley wants to sit.,

If Bradley’s gonna hit .300/.400/.500 in 120 AB, he can do whatever he damn well pleases. That makes him our second best hitter, by far.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 13, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

so than...

Instead of trading a lefty bat for a lefty bat why don’t we just sign Cust, make Guillen the DH (as he should be), and have 2 left handed bats in our lineup?

The point was made above that we need another left handed bat, not to just flip bad contracts. I’d rather have 2 left handed bats and Guillen complaining about DHing than have one left handed bat and listen to whatever absurd thing Milton Bradley can find to whine about next. Our lineup is insanely right handed right now. Why trade a known commodity for something that may or may not be an upgrade when it is more of that commodity that we need? That commodity being left handed batting. Sure there will be games where we’ll be able to plug Clete Thomas or Alex Avila into the lineup but we don’t actually know what either of them can do for sure at this level. All we know is that Clete is inconsistent and Avila was hot for a bit until he got shut down for the stretch run.

Shouldn’t adding that extra left handed bat be our main concern? I’m just using Cust as an example because I haven’t really checked if he’s the best LHB to add to our lineup. But what else can we do? Trade Guillen and find a DH to sign? Who do we sign for that purpose?

I’m starting to rant here, to sum it up…trading Guillen for Bradley seems utterly pointless to me.

My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head

by madpoopz on Dec 13, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Bradley has more upside

Besides, I’d prefer Bradley and Cust over Guillen and Cust.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 13, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know about that....

What I think we need in a bad way is a new set of guys who can set the table. Who knows? Maybe Sizemore, AJAX can fill Grandy’s and Polanco’s shoes, but I seriously don’t like trusting it to two new guys. They are going to go through some slumps, guaranteed. We need someone who CAN leadoff, and I am sorry for all of you who doubt that Pierre has any abilitiy left, but HE has a great work ethic, had 200 hits at one point during full time career, and could make HUGE contributions.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 13, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

CF options

Pierre has hit .270 only ONCE in his NL career. So even if he hits .270 again I think he is the best person available. What happens if AJAX can’t handle CF next year? Then who do we turn to? Bradley? Cust? Podsednik? Raburn? yuk.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 13, 2009 7:40 PM EST reply actions  

Has he ever on based more than .350 in full time duty?

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 13, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

Granderson is a career .327.
Polanco’s is .332.
Pierre had a .365 OBP last year,
2001 in 617 AB he posted a .378 OBP
’03 and ’04 in 660 AB he posted over a .360 OBP
The last three years of his “Full TIME CAREER” he had .330 OBP, but he also reached the 200 hit plateau once, and 180 hits twice
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4486

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 14, 2009 2:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Hits don't matter that much

And Granderson’s/Polanco’s low OBP’s are why they should have been moved down the order.

Plus, citing 2001-2004 is irrelevant- Pierre has aged. And last year he had one good month.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 14, 2009 2:52 AM EST up reply actions  

WHO WOULD HAVE REPLACED THEM?

Who would you have replaced Granderson and Polanco at the top of the order? Magglio? Guillen? Santiago/Everett? Oh, maybe Raburn, Clete? Give me a break. HEY remember JOSH ANDERSON? Remember how he stole a lot of SB, getting Polanco that second or third fastball during an AB? THAT IS what having someone like Pierre around. Its not jjust about his stats, he makes the guy after him better too.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 14, 2009 3:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Did you really just use Josh Anderson as a positive factor in your argument?!

Josh Anderson? He of a .278 OBP???? I don’t care that he had 25 SB last year. That means nothing. If he was so great, why did the tigers trade him for a bag of chips? He was one of the worst players in the majors last year! I really don’t think Josh Anderson got Polanco favorable pitch counts….JOSH ANDERSON?! Ha.

by baum on Dec 14, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Josh ANderson WAS a terrible player last year....

But that doesn’t take away from the fact that when he GOT on first base, Polanco DID get more fast balls to hit because Josh Anderson was a maniac on first base….If you watched any Tiger’s baseball last year, you would have heard Rod Allen or Mario bring it up, point out how now that Josh Anderson was on first, Polanco got two fastballs in a row, which normally never happens, because the opposing team was guessing, (and usually rightly so) that Anderson was about to steal second.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 14, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2-hitters

Most teams still use speed as a significant factor in choosing their leadoff hitter, and stolen base attempts from the #1 spot in the batting order dwarfs attempts from all the other line-up spots. There were 498 SB attempts from #1 hitters in the majors last year – no other batting order slot got more than 239.

So, since leadoff hitters are going to be stealing far more than any other line-up spot, we can infer that the #2 hitter will be at the plate most often when SB attempts occur. What’s the common wisdom on how pitchers defend against stolen bases? Throw fastballs. So which line-up spot should see the most fastballs? The #2 hitter.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 14, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Speed is one component...

but it is ONLY ONE component. Just because a player is fast doesn’t mean that A) he is an effective baserunner and B) that he is capable of getting on base enough to truly make a difference in runs for that team over the course of a season. At this point, it is difficult to argue that speed significantly contributes to the number of wins a team gains over the course of a season. Also, conventional wisdom is not always the best way to determine the worth of players.

I would agree that faster players can be more valuable, but when a player’s worth is almost entirely tied to their speed then they are not that valuable. Pierre can hit for avg., but his ability to get on base is not much better than his BA, thus making him less valuable to a team. What worth is a player on the bases if they aren’t great at getting on base? Also, as has been repeatedly pointed out, pierre is not the most effective baserunner, particularly if he’s stealing fewer than 75% of the bags he tries to swipe in a season. For a guy with so much speed, that isn’t very good.

You can try to to keep arguing this whole speed thing, but I, like many others, use more than just conventional wisdom when it comes to player analysis and worth. You really aren’t getting anywhere…..I’ll stick to my analysis that says that Pierre is a replacement level player with a big salary, and you can believe that just because he can run fast that he’s a great player to start every day……

by baum on Dec 14, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Who says Pierre is going to be a great player to start everyday?

All I am saying is that we need some speed to avoid becoming a station-to-station team. That there are benefits to having a leadoff guy who wants to steal a base, especially when that guy batting in the two hole is not Polanco anymore…If we can swap out a bad contract, then what are we losing? Who is saying that we can’t have Pierre and Bradley? After losing a guy like Curtis, I would much more prefer a classier player to ease the pain, man, I can just feel the headache from Gary Sheffield coming back…

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

If we trade Guillen,

I would only assume that getting Pierre in exchange would lead to Pierre playing almost every day. And if he’s a great leadoff hitter in your mind, then it seems like you would want to play him as frequently as possible. If not, then maybe he’s not so great. I don’t think that 1 player like Pierre (not effective stealer) makes a team any more of an effective baserunning/speed team.

by baum on Dec 14, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

without Guillen

If we trade for Pierre with Guillen, I would like to see him play everyday, But I don’t think he is a GREAT player. He is a good player, with a great attitude and work ethic. He is a “threat” on the basepaths, which helps the no. 2 hitter get more fastballs to give the opposing catcher the best chance of throwing out the runner. If Maggs hits second, I don’t think batting Pierre first would be a good choice, due to the fact he couldn’t hit a fastball anymore. However, I DO think Pierre is an upgrade to the other options we have, OR at least some solid insurance incase Sizemore can’t live up to his minor league 380-400 OBP, or if AJAX does need more time.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 14, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

You're still missing the point then....

Above, I posted that a leadoff hitter is simply a leadoff hitter for the first inning, maybe a few more innings sprinkled throughout the game. However, I do not believe he really is an upgrade over many/any of the other options we will be throwing out there. Like I said, he’s a replacement level player making a lot of money.

by baum on Dec 14, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Fine,

bat him ninth, but whoever bats first will get extra fastballs, because they are trying to keep Pierre out of scoring position…AND that might just workout greatly if we have a rookie leadoff guy, and we are trying to protect him from breaking stuff……He most certainly is NOT worth the money he gets, BUT neither are some of the players on our team, and I think his will be far more useful than any of their contracts.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 15, 2009 6:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Ordonez should have been hitting second

I’d lead off with Raburn or… well, the options really sucked, didn’t they.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 14, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

I really want to see Maggs bat 2nd in 2010. He’s a really good fit for it.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

You know what's even more telling of Pierre??

He has a career .720 OPS. That’s not good. In fact, that’s not even remotely close to being adequate for a career starting CF/LF. If you want to compare that to other guys that we’ve discussed here in terms of a more complete look (OPS (OBP/SLG):
Granderson .828 (.344/.484) I’ll take it
Guillen .805 (.358/.446) Not Bad
Bradley .821(.371/.450) Pretty Good
Pierre .720 (.348/.372) Wouldn’t touch him

So if you think that Pierre is an upgrade as a leadoff hitter over Granderson or Bradley, then it sure looks as if he might have an OBP equivalent to Granderson and inferior to Bradley. Heck, I’d even seriously consider batting Guillen at leadoff ahead of Pierre. The point is, Pierre is not a legitimate everyday OF for a major league club. The number of hits he has had in any single season is irrelevant. He is a far inferior overall player to Bradley. His clubhouse presence is another story, but one that is irrelevant to this particular discussion of comparing numbers to determine team value.

by baum on Dec 14, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Has he ever on based more than .350 in full time duty?

Has he ever on based more than .350 in full time duty?
HMMM, YES. maybe If I would have just have said YES, and not CITED 2001-2004 TO PROVE why yes IS THE RIGHT ANSWER, WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT TO HAVE BEEN RELEVENT to the question, "Has he ever on based more than .350 in full time duty? "

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 14, 2009 3:00 AM EST reply actions  

He was a younger player

He aged. Your yelling isn’t helping your prove your argument.

Pierre is a washed up fourth outfielder with a good glove for left and a horrendous bat.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 14, 2009 3:11 AM EST up reply actions  

You are missing the whole point,

You asked has he EVER, had a .350 OBP. I said YES, and CITED the years and gave you the link. I am not yelling, I am typing the part about answering THE QUESTION in big letters in order to point out that YES, even though it was a while ago, the answer is still relevant because that is what YOU asked.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 14, 2009 3:15 AM EST up reply actions  

It's not relevent

He posted those when he was in his twenties… it’s like saying numbers from Andruw Jones’s 20’s are relevent.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 14, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I am not saying those numbers are relevent now,

I am saying they are relevent because YOU asked for them.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 14, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Then why post them??

If you know they aren’t relevant now, then its pointless to use them in an argument of his skillset now….

by baum on Dec 14, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

i posted them because he asked for them

i posted them because demondeaconsbaseball asked for them in the original post.

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 14, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Enough

There’s no need to argue anymore.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 14, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Dec 14, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

This discussion...

is starting to turn into a discussion about discussing instead of talking about bringing Milton Bradley to the D.

I know it’s a fanpost, but we should at least try to stay on topic and be less touchy feely about things. it’s really had to interpret any sort of emotion through text anyway unless you plan putting a ton of work into your comments.

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My Blog: Inside A Head

by madpoopz on Dec 14, 2009 10:34 AM EST reply actions  

All of this talk has been a wonderfully irrelevant exercise

as it now appears and has been reported that Juan Pierre has been traded to the White Sox for 2 minor league pitchers. Dodgers are paying a significant portion of Pierre’s salary too….nothing official yet, though..

by baum on Dec 15, 2009 10:54 AM EST reply actions  

See what I mean

Bradley isn’t even here (yet/maybe never) and look at all the problems he’s caused :oP

by Detroitchik on Dec 15, 2009 4:53 PM EST reply actions  

Dang,

Even if we didn’t land him, I was hoping someone else not in our division would have……The White Sox are starting to look pretty decent at this point in the offseason….

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 15, 2009 5:00 PM EST reply actions  

Nix

Milton Bradley is for Milton Bradley. No thanks.

by Greenberg5 on Dec 18, 2009 2:20 AM EST reply actions  

Bradley to Seattle

I got this from the Chicago Tribuen:

Report: Cubs to trade Bradley to Seattle
The Cubs may have finally found a taker for Milton Bradley in the Seattle Mariners, with a trade possible sometime Friday or Saturday, according to the Seattle Times.

by Greenberg5 on Dec 18, 2009 1:57 PM EST reply actions  

Carlos Guillen didn’t hit last year because he was hurt, before that he was one of the league’s best hitters. Milton Bradley didn’t hit last year because he got kicked off the Cub’s for being a douchebag, guess what? In 2010 Carlos will be healthy and Milton will still be Douchebag. Bad deal sorry.

by adpizzaboy on Dec 27, 2009 11:55 PM EST reply actions  

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