The Yankee View of Austin Jackson and Phil Coke
by Ian Casselberry on Dec 14, 2009 8:00 PM EST
in News
19 comments
About a week after the big trade that sent Curtis Granderson off to the Yankees, many Tigers fans still have questions and reservations about the players Detroit received in return. In the past, we've talked to our buddy jscape2000 from our SB Nation brother site Pinstripe Alley when the Tigers and Yankees cross paths on the field or transaction wire. So he volunteered to provide some thoughts on Austin Jackson and Phil Coke:
Phil Coke: As I told Halos Heaven before the ALCS: The good news is that Phil Coke has a nasty slider. The bad news is that it's a breaking ball, and anyone who throws a breaking ball 25% of the time is bound to hang one eventually (1.5 HR/9).
Despite the high homerun rate and the high profile homers he gave up in the 8th inning of Game 5 of the World Series, I still have faith that Coke can be an important part of a major league bullpen. You can't hit him (44H in 60IP), so as long as he keeps his walks down, his high strikeout rate makes him a weapon.
Austin Jackson is a very good centerfield prospect, lacking only a cannon arm of the five tools. While I didn't get to see him play this year, when I've seen him in the past he reminded me of Derek Jeter, lunging into the ball. Unlike Jeter, it apparently is leaving some big holes in his swing (123K in 132G).Despite that, he still hit .300/.354/.405 in AAA, very productive numbers from a 22 year old centerfielder. Don't be alarmed by his lack of power - I used to live in Scranton where the Yanks' AAA team is, and that minor league park is a pitcher's park- high wall and deep alleys. In Comerica, he'll put his speed to good use.
He's got great range- he's not top flight fast, but he takes very good routes. On the basepaths, he's developed good instincts (124 SB, 35 CS, 78%).
A two-sport high schooler, he's improved at each level as his baseball intelligence builds. I would probably start him at AAA and make him the first outfielder up, but I can see a scenario where he breaks with the team out of camp.
I don't know if this affects anyone's opinion of the trade or perception of what Detroit received in return, but it's a viewpoint from someone who's seen more of Jackson and Coke than most Tigers fans. (I get the feeling the Yankees are happier with Granderson, though.)
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I really have no expextations of the rookie
So if he does something epic or even mediocre, I’ll be happy. I wasn’t to impressed with any of we got in return. So, for me, I’ll just wait and see if I can form a good opinion after the season gets going.
This is probably unrealistic,
but I would love to see Jackson eventually turn into Denard Span with more strikeouts, a lower OBP, more stolen bases, and better defense.
I still don't know what to expect from these two.
I think Coke might be better suited as a starter and Jackson may need a year in the minors. You wouldn’t see me too upset if DD signs Podsednick and let’s Jackson mature another year, or at least half a year. He needs to find a way to get the strikeouts down, otherwise it’ll be like having another Grandy leading off, minus the HRs.
I’m still excited to see how all four guys turn out, I think they’re all quality guys and definitely have potential to be good players on our team.
The artist formerly known as Granderson28
Is it just me
Or does the description of Jackson make him sound like a young Curtis Granderson? Assuming ballpark effects and young age explain away some of the power concerns, two sport star, lacks a cannon arm, fast but without top-flight speed, plenty of strikeouts as he figures out his swing. To me, the ceiling is that he can develop into Granderson and the Tigers will have him below market value for 6 years. The worry is Granderson represents the peak for this type of player, and that there is pretty big downside risk that he’ll develop short of that. Funny though how similar the two sound.
I've heard that
And it would be hilarious… that being said, I’ve heard conflicting reports on Jackson on just about everything besides makeup and tools… I don’t know anymore.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 14, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, not feeling it.
I mean, it really depends on how specific you are about the “type of player” these guys are. If you list a bunch of Granderson’s attributes and then call that a “type of player”, sure. But if you just call them toolsy outfielders, Granderson is not the peak, despite having turned out a lot better than a lot of the guys that get that label put on them.
I don't want to hear any weak sh*t from Jason Grilli.
by cherub_daemon on Dec 15, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Can I ask...
Is there a difference between “toolsy” and “5-tool?” I always thought 5-tool was supposed to be a good thing, and I never heard the word “toolsy” before last week.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 15, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
to me...
Toolsy means the player has a specific skill set. 5-tool to me means they got all the tools.
That’s just my take. I’m still a baseball n00b.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
to me toolsy means
he’s not really good at much yet so people just want to talk up his potential and use the word. There’s lots of toolsy players in the minors, it’s using the tools that gets you to the show.
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 16, 2009 8:00 AM EST up reply actions
This doesn't make me feel much better.
Jackson is in an impossible situation. He’s been designated as the heir apparent to an incredibly popular and fairly productive player. Gonna take one hell of a mentally tough kid to survive all the “Grandy would’ve had that” calls he’s going to hear every time he doesn’t track one down at the CoPa.
Who knows?
At least our management is active…Despite what people say, I don’t think this is anything of a firesale year….I think it is a wait and see year. The White Sox are looking to be pretty competitive, but we don’t look too bad ourselves. It could be a new look, but who knows? Maybe having that great bullpen will get us a lot of close wins. Good point about giving moral support, this is like a whole new generation of Tigers, all under team control for a while. Sizemore, Jackson, Schlereth, Sherzer, Avilla, Perry, Porcello. We have some of the best young talent in the league! Not to mention Miggy and Verlander is in their prime….
by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 15, 2009 6:21 AM EST reply actions
Shoot, when you put it that way
It makes everything sound much better. We really do have a nice influx of young talent on this team now.
The artist formerly known as Granderson28
+1
For a cruddy farm system, we’ve turned out some good stuff.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 15, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
we are looking good for the future...
and pretty decent for now. Maybe the future is sooner rather than later.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
Typical
This isn’t surprising that they would view him in that light. Most Tigers fans are less impressed with him. You always value your players more and other teams’ players less. It’s all based on exposure. So blank slate here.
Restatement
Yeah, that came out the wrong way…….There are a lot of people who love him. I, on the other hand, like him less. Although, I still believe that while a lot of fans will say they like/don’t like a certain player, their demands for trading that player would be higher than what another team would likely exchange in return. In that way, we do tend to overvalue players on our own team. Maybe I’m taking a really cynical approach there, but that’s how I see it. I certainly don’t see Jackson as a bad prospect, by any means; I just don’t know that he is anything close to the hype of being a Yankees prospect…
Thank you Ian (and jscape2000, if you're around) for taking the time to do this
It’s understandable that they’d be happier with Granderson. I’d think there was something wrong with them if they weren’t (though I did get a comment on my own blog from a Yankee fan who didn’t like Grandy’s on-base percentage and thought his home runs were an empty stat). However, this is the most fleshed-out analysis of Austin Jackson and Phil Coke that I’ve gotten so far and it’s allowed me to get a better visual on them. I’m operating somewhat on the hypothesis that there was something about Jackson that impressed DD (or someone in the front office) so much that they were willing to lower the asking price, and perhaps they were thinking along the same lines as jscape2000.
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