If the Season started tomorrow....
by infinitetigers on Dec 14, 2009 5:55 PM EST
54 comments
What would your Tigers lineup be??? Work in progress, but here goes (top of the order is anyone's guess)
LF/CF- RABURN
CF/LF-THOMAS OR JACKSON
RF-ORDONEZ
1B-CABRERA
3B-INGE
DH-GUILLEN
C-AVILA/LAIRD
SS-EVERETT
2B-SIZEMORE
I know faith has been diminished over the past few days, but we are still in the worst division in baseball. We have 3 solid starters with the addition of Scherzer. Pick two more from Gallaraga, Robertson, Bonderman and Coke. Looking to the future, we also have a small group of pitchers ready to start in a couple years in Crosby, Turner and Wilk. We also have some young position players that could produce in the near future in W.Ramirez, Wells, Strieby, Boesch, Pounds, Dlugach and don't give up yet on Iorg. I am not ready to give up on 2010. I don't think we're done making moves yet, I could definitely see the Tigers going after Kelly Johnson as insurance for Sizemore. This is just one of many possibilities among many serviceable free agents.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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I haven't given up on 2010 either
Considering how poor our division is and considering how strong our pitching can be…well, it won’t be easy, but we’ve got a decent shot.
I haven't given up either!
Just because Grandy and Polly are gone, doesn’t mean we’ll suck!!! Come on now, We’ll hold our own, you doubters will see.
Tammy
Ooh... lineup predictions!
2B Sizemore
RF Ordonez
1B Cabrera
DH Guillen
LF Raburn
3B Inge
CF Jackson
SS Everett
C Laird
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Evidently . . .
. . . that’s Grady Sizemore you have playing second, there!
Either that or he's playing off the observation that Leyland sometimes says one thing (adamantly) and then does the opposite...
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 15, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
This one
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 15, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
I am very excited about
having a bullben that is a strength. We might be able to hold those one/two run leads this year! My lineup, if Ajax wins the starting CF, barring trades/pick-ups :
Jackson
Guillen,
Ordonez,
Miggy
Inge,
Raburn
Avilla/Everett
Laird/Everett
Sizemore
by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 15, 2009 12:09 AM EST reply actions
Not bad
Though I’d flip Ordonez and Guillen…and move Sizemore up to protect Miggy.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 15, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
I just really like a lefty batting in the two hole,
but Maggs works, since he hits to right all the time…
I would like to see Sizemore bat ninth so he can get that leadoff fealing at some point in the game, and also maybe able to start things off after that Laird/Everett inning killer.
by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 15, 2009 5:59 AM EST reply actions
That's not a horrible theory
Still, Sizemore deserves to hit higher than 9th.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 15, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think he does too,
but Guillen isn’t much of a run producer anymore, but he still grinds out plate appearances. I guess to me, it depends on how much power sizemore shows….if he is hitting for decent average, might as well put him in a position to set the table.
by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 15, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Back off on the man crush for Sizemore!
How in the world does Sizemore DESERVE to hit higher than 9th when HE’S NEVER EVEN HAD A MAJOR LEAGUE AT-BAT?
C’mon, I’m hoping like hell this kid works out as much as any Tiger fan but you post about him like he’s freaking Charlie Gehringer at the plate.
So you think every rookie in the majors should be slotted in at 9th?
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 16, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Did I say that?
No, I simply posed the question as to why he DESERVED to hit higher. Look, I am a big Polanco fan and was very disappointed to see him go. That said, I want my team to do well and want Sizemore to succeed as much as any Tigers fan. I am just amazed at how many people post as if they expect he will just step right in and become Ryne Sandber or Lou Whitaker overnight. Baseball is littered with guys who hit tore up AAA but couldn’t cut it at the big league level. C’mon, bat him 5th to protect Miggy? Hand me the bottle, I need a swig of that juice.
Do some research.
Seriously. You sure as hell implied that because he’s a rookie he should be batting in the nine slot. The comment right under this told you where to look at Sizemore’s numbers. Could he crash and burn in the majors? Sure, but so could have every other big leaguer ever. If the team believes he can do it, they’re going to use him that way.
Look at this kid’s numbers. He’s not some Dane Sardinha chump called up simply because he’s a body that happens to play at the needed position.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 17, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think every rookie
should be in the 9 slot either. Last year when they brought up Wilkin Ramirez up (when Maggs took those few days off); he batted in the 3 slot and got a homerun. I am not absolutely positive but fairly certain it was only his second MLB at bat. Point being, just because someone is a rookie doesn’t mean they don’t have the stuff. Even though I am not happy about losing Polly, we really need to give this kid a chance. He should be higher in the order, if for no other reason maybe just to see what he can do. If it were me I would put G$ or Opie down in the 8-9 slots.
Did you see his AFL numbers?
Have you looked at him at all? Listen, I was probably the most vocal supporter of bringing Polanco back but that didn’t happen. Sizemore is not some garbage kid we’re yanking up from Single A West Michigan or something.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 16, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
but does he deserve it?
or should we make him earn a higher spot in spring training?
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
My problem isn't with Sizmore in the nine hole
It’s with dabirdin76’s claim that simply because Sizemore is a rookie, he’s best suited for that slot.
Spring training will tell us where he belongs.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 16, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
understood.
I’m bad at deciding on lineups. But to me Magg’s is your #2 guy next year and Miggy is your #4. Around that I don’t know.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
Note I haven't posted a proposed lineup
I wouldn’t even try with how much has changed with this team since game 163, especially with Leyland calling the shots.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 17, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
+1
If Sizemore starts off slow, then by all means, move him down. But he’s going to hit, and he’s going to hit fairly well.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 17, 2009 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
What would our starting pitching staff look like?
I know our bullpen is beefed up, and our top three SP are excellent, but who is going to be the fourth and fifth?
Verlander
Porcello
Sherzer
Galaragga
Bonderman/Robertson/Miner?
Maybe Coke can switch with Sherzer, and Sherzer will be our closer….Either way, I feel Robertson, Miner, and Bonderman have the potential to be good, but then again they could all be complete garbage….Maybe the three of them together can get us seven innings.
by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 15, 2009 6:27 AM EST reply actions
Coke isn't a starter.
He’s a lefty bullpen man, and a good one at that. No need to push him out of that job that he already excels at when Detroit has a surplus of potential starters.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 15, 2009 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
Not a Starter?
I don’t know why you say that. Coke was a starter everywhere in his career except one year with the Yankees, where he couldn’t break into the rotation.
And, I don’t know why you focus on the fact that the Tigers have a surplus of potential starters. That’s true, but the problem is that they don’t have a surplus of potential good starters. My guess is that Bonderman will return to something approaching his pre-injury form, but that Robertson, Galleraga and Willis will continue to suck. Miner isn’t going to start, absent catastrophe.
There are multiple reports that refute your belief:
I’d link them up, but apparently I’m having trouble doing so right now. Anyways, Kornacki of mlive and Lowe of freep both claim that DD is seriously considering such. It would be a bonus if he were an effective starter. But we’ll just have to wait and see….
I just don't see Coke being used that way
He excels at being used out of the bullpen. The one season he started in AA or AAA was 2008 (yes, I’m throwing out A and under) and he did fine in AAA Trenton that season. However since coming to the bigs he hasn’t started a game. We have plenty of other talent to go with first before falling to Coke as a backup starter. Can he do it? Probably. Is he used to it? Not by a long shot.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 15, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yeesh,
As long as the Tigers don’t screw with his head like the Mariners did with Morrow…I know it will never happen, but it would be badass if Bonderman turned out to be our closer next year…
by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Dec 16, 2009 4:41 AM EST up reply actions
mans definitely got the mentality to close a ballgame...
totally unflappable.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
you can't just arbitrarily throw out seasons as a starter because it doesn't make your argument
If the Tigers want to get value out of the deal, they need to get two starters out of it. A couple of relief pitchers would just prove how bad a trade it was.
I think they’ll give him a chance to start, like they said. Robertson doesn’t get a free pass to the rotation. It’ll be up to Coke to earn it.
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 16, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions
How often do you take Single A and less into account?
I mean, honestly? Outside a case like Crosby or someone that was drafted high in the first place, there’s just too much systemic volatility at those levels of ball to look at it and say if someone’s going to be a great player or not. I’d much rather look at AA+ any day to get a better handle on whoever it is.
I also don’t care for the “we have to get two starters out of this for the trade to work” mentality that seems to be developing since the trade went down. No, Robertson doesn’t get a free pass to the rotation, but I think throwing Coke into the competition with Miner/Robertson/Bonderman/Galarraga for the 4-5 job is just a bit silly. Coke is 25, he doesn’t have to start in the big leagues right out of the gate.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 16, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
The issue is need
We need a starter much more than we need a 5th lefty reliever.
We need to see Coke compete for a rotation spot. If he’s ready, great! We need that! If he’s not, then that’s fine, we’ll use him in the ’pen.
I agree that we shouldn’t feel compelled to make the trade look good, but at the same time, let’s give the kid a chance.
A lifelong Tigers fan
I don't have a problem with giving him a chance
I just don’t want to see him virtually thrust into the position. He’s only 25. Perhaps give one of the four I mentioned a try at #5 and let Coke either work out of the pen or out of AAA Toledo to start the season. If one of the 4/5 men starts to falter, have him take his spot.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 16, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Coke is 27 and will be 28 midway through next season
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 16, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I've no idea where I got 25 from today.
Said it over and over, and I have no idea where it came from.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 16, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
The issue is value and need.
As I argued on my blog, the Tigers did not need to trade for a couple relievers. They have Bobby Seay and Fu Te Ni in the pen. They just added Brad Thomas to the team and put him on the 40 man roster. They have Andrew Oliver in the system. And then they traded for Daniel Schereth and Phil Coke, two more lefty relievers.
What in the world are you trading one of your best position players for a couple of lefty relievers when you already have a bunch?
So how about value?
Granderson has been a 3.5 to 4.0 win player yearly, which puts him in the upper tie of center fielders. That will be pretty difficult to replace.
So you trade him for lefty relievers you don’t need. And oh yes, relievers are not big difference makers, outside the best closers. In the case of Mr. Coke, he was a 0.1 win player for the Yankees in 2009. A dime a dozen player.
Give him a chance to start where he can actually make a difference and maybe find a spot to keep warm after 2010.
Otherwise, he’s just a pointless piece in the trade.
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 16, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
This
It would make the trade significantly more interesting, and while I think Coke’s future is in the bullpen, he might not make a horrible starter.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 17, 2009 3:10 AM EST up reply actions
Coke/Galarraga/Bonderman/Robertson
He who pitches best in spring training gets the rotation spot. No playing favorites and no trying to validate trades. There are some guys on that list that I’d prefer in the rotation from a preferential, human-interest standpoint, but execution should be the determining factor. If the guys I like don’t pitch well in spring training, I will welcome them to Toledo with open arms.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 17, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
if I had to decide who got the job based on who I liked most...
I’d pick Galarraga. If I had to make it based souly on baseball knowledge, I would hope that a lefty got it. Of the lefties I’m not amazed by either option in that list.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
You and I are pretty much thinking along the same lines
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 18, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I am hoping that whatever
was ailing Armando, has been taken care or is being taken care of. I like him a lot and would love to see him in rotation.
He's better in the bullpen
But he could theoretically move to the rotation.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 15, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
But no one knows for sure
Sample size is WAAYYY too small (nonexistent) to determine how effective Coke will be as a starter at the major league level. And, he was a pretty effective starter in the minors.
Scouting reports
All indications I’ve seen say that he’s a 2 pitch pitcher with a dominant slider and average FB.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 17, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Geez
I just hope Galaragga isn’t part of the rotation. The man is done.
If he wows in spring training we should give him a look, but I have zero faith in him right now. I think i would actually rather see Willis that Galaragga.
A lifelong Tigers fan
I disagree with that
He’s young and like many of our pitchers, he was pitching injured. I am hoping he comes back and is a DEFINITE part of rotation. Everyone wants to giver Bonderman a chance and give Nate a chance and even Dontrelle, Why not Galarraga? I saw more out of him than I did in ’08 and ’09 than I did any of the other three I mentioned.
by Detroitchik on Dec 22, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I still believe he has #4 upside.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 23, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Think......
The surplus of lefties in the bullpen benefits the Tigers in multiple ways. First, having the arms allows the team to match up well with hitters in the division like Mauer, Morneau, Choo, Sizemore and others. Secondly, lefties are finite resource in the game especially during the pennant race. The Tigers can trade a surplus arm for another beneficial player.
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