BYOBYB: Friday Open Thread
by Ian Casselberry on Dec 4, 2009 3:00 PM EST
in Open Threads
129 comments
I don't know about you guys, but between arbitration decisions, free agent defections, and picking fights with the traditional media, it's felt like kind of a long week around here. So let's end with some BYOBYB. If you're new to these parts (and if so, please introduce yourself), this is the open thread where you can post whatever's on your mind.
If you want to talk Tigers, baseball in general with the impending Winter Meetings, or something off-topic like movies, holiday gifts, or a funny story to tell, this is the place to discuss it.
Just to get the ball moving around the horn, here are some possible topics to discuss:
- Fanhouse's Ed Price mentioned that the Tigers talked to the Arizona Diamondbacks about Edwin Jackson, and Max Scherzer would've been part of the package coming to Detroit in return. Is that something you would've been interested in? (Thanks to Corey for sending an e-mail about this.)
- Are you a fan of Christmas music or not? I myself am not (radio stations that begin playing it the day after Halloween are vile), though I do enjoy hearing "Jingle Bell Rock" at least once before Christmas. And I need to hear Bruce Springsteen's version of "Santa Claus is Comin' to Town."
- Have we overdone it with the Placido Polanco stuff now? Was the picture of him in a Phillies uniform going too far?
- Might you be interested in getting together with a few of your fellow BYBers the day after Christmas? If so, let yourself be known.
- Have you started your holiday shopping yet? Are you one of those who likes to push it as close to Christmas Eve as possible? Or are you already done?
Those are merely suggestions. You're free to bring up whatever you'd like. This open thread now belongs to you, people. Enjoy your weekend!
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Trades and Holidays
Trying hard not to get excited about any moves the Tigers make until we see what they are. Polanco making way for Sizemore is reasonable, but I cannot imagine that you can get for Jackson or Granderson what they’re worth. The team can use hitting, but also needs good pitching and good defense. We can afford to let Jackson go only if we have some certainty about Bonderman, and I don’t see that happening.
As for the Holidays, I’m not doing any shopping. My wife and sons have much that they don’t use or need, and I just don’t feel compelled to spend money in these hard times on things other people don’t particuarly care about just to celebrate a Pagan holiday commemorating the end of the Winter Solictice.
"I have seen the future, and it is much like the present, only longer" - Dan Quisenberry
BYB Get Together After Xmas
I would defintely vote YES although not sure I can make it from Fort Wayne (depends on weather and work).
"I have seen the future, and it is much like the present, only longer" - Dan Quisenberry
Who hits second now?
So now that Polanco is gone who is going to hit second? I would probably vote for Magglio. He is no longer a power hitter but showed in the second half he can still hit for avg. Of course it will depend on what else they do but as of now I would say Mags.
I would agree
with that since he seemed to make a lot of contact with the ball towards the end of the season, but lacked the “shear power” for many extra bases, this move would also make sense to me. I think Granderson should be further down in the lineup than second maybe 5th or 6th. But Maggs might get it done, and then I don’t have to wait as long to see him take his AB ….hahahaha
OMG.....
Mags will be fine. Quit panicking…. and even more important, judge Mags on his career, not what he did for 4 months. Man oh man…… I can predict rain when it is raining! Can you not see past what someone did for you last week, or yesterday? Mags has plenty of power left. We can have an excellent year this year with Bonderman comming back. Verlander, Jackson, Porcello, Bonderman, and who ever you want…. there are several choices. We need to re-sign Everett and Rodney, and we will win the central this year.
you need to calm down a bit.
Ordonez lacked power for an entire season. A season in which he was healthy. It was more than just a 4 month thing. That length of a slump is something to worry about. Nobody is panicking. I don’t think anybody expects his numbers to be as far off of his career norms this coming season as the were this previous one, but it is something to be a little bit worried about.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
I wasn't dissing Maggs
I would NEVER do that. However. I do not have much confidence in the lineup at this point in time. We will have to see. I wouldn’t count on much from Bonderman. And I could do without Everett at short or Rodney as our so called “closer” He may have gotten it done, but was iffy most every night he went out there. We will see about Maggs power in the days to come, but what I do know is that he didn’t hit for power all last season and started to perk up at the end of the regular season. He had a higher average than anyone in MLB in September and October and most of his contact with the ball were single base hits. Believe me, more than anyone on this site or anyone in the city I want him to come out swinging and keep it up, because when HE goes, part of me will die and I will ball like a baby. NAnyone on this site will tell you there’s no bigger fan of Maggs than me, but I am being realistic. He’s 36 in January and his power is declining If he can get on base, that’s all I care about. Let someone else drive him in…
Put Granderson Second
It would be nice if the Tigers could find a better lead-off hitter and move Granderson to 2nd in the line-up. IMHO Granderson strikes out too much and does not get on base enough for leadoff. Mags, Miggie and Guillen need to stay 3rd-5th.
"I have seen the future, and it is much like the present, only longer" - Dan Quisenberry
Thats not a bad idea
But we can’t afford a Figgins or DeRosa type this season.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Wait
Who’s on first? Or Who hits first?
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Lets assume he hit second?
What does he play?
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Unless we can get Max Scherer and something else shiny
For Jackson, I mean. Don’t trade Grandy.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
I watched quite a few Diamondbacks games over the course of this season (long story)
Scherzer and Jackson appear to have similar stuff, but Jackson tends to pitch deeper into games than Scherzer (I don’t have numbers for you; it’s just my observation). Beyond that, I don’t know much about D’backs prospects, but didn’t they already ship off their best shiny objects to Oakland in the Dan Haren deal?
And as far as Grandy goes, the word for today seems to be that the Tigers are listening, but not actively shopping him. I wanted to create a FanShot about this, but most of it comes from a Buster Olney post on ESPN Insider, which I don’t have. I only learned about it indirectly from MLB Trade Rumors and the RotoWorld feed that’s on the sidebar of this site.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Scherzer has more potential
And he’s under control for longer- which is a very good thing.
And it doesn’t have to be very shiny… maybe a bullpen arm or something.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Figgie's pretty much a mariner
weird. hard to picture him as anything other than an Angel, esp since I used to see him play all the time when I lived in so cal.
For some reason, I wasn't expecting the Mariners to be in the mix at all
I didn’t think they had the payroll space. I’m not sure who I thought would sign Figgins, but hey, I have no beef with the Mariners. It certainly beats having him with the White Sox.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
His full name is Desmond DeChone Figgins
Continuing the interesting trend of players who are better known by their middle names (We have two: Charles Brandon Inge and Jose Miguel Cabrera)
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
I've always objected more to his last name
It makes him sound like he should be a British butler
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
I've....
basically accepted that Jackson is gone. Maybe I’ll be surprised.
If we get Crosby, yikes. That would be another absolutely, positively, consistent out in the lineup, and we have at least three of those already (Inge, Laird, probably Sizemore at least for his first year).
It has been a long week. Gotta find something to get fired up about. At least Figgins didn’t come to Chicago. That’s good, right?
Agreed-Maggs is our new 2 hitter.
I'm not entirely sure Jackson is gone...
He’s being shopped for a high price. I think most teams consider him very good but not worth a high price.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
I'm not into Christmas music...
although Trans-Siberian Orchestra totally rocks.
I really don’t plan on doing much gift buying this year. I’ve become a bit of a scrooge towards Christmas. I’ll still buy you gift if I see a really good one but I’m not gonna actively shop around for someone.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
I like Christmas music, but there's a time and a place
November 1st is not that time (and I didn’t realize radio stations in other parts of the country did that too). Now that it’s closer to Christmas, sure I’ll listen (although I still remember the year I worked for Bath and Body Works and their 3-hour loop of Christmas music when I normally worked five hours; if I hear any of those songs elsewhere, I cringe).
I have a fairly small family, so there’s not a whole lot of shopping to do. I’m buying my parents tickets to see Wicked (which comes to Toledo in March/April). Now I just have to come up with something for my grandparents.
I suspect Sizemore will hit 2nd, because Leyland has this tendancy to put players into the slot of other players they replace—which is how Clete Thomas batted third so much.
Granderson is going nowhere.
Everyone, please stop listening to Lynn Henning. Everyone’s source for this rumor can be traced back to his original, unsourced story.
Stop it
2100 Woodward and Twitter
I didn't think Curtis was going anywhere at first
but I just purchased a jersey for my sister for her birthday……and now i’m afraid i’ve jinxed it
(shhhhhhhhhhhhhh nobody tell her!)
But I do think that
any acquisitions that are made will not be of any significance or any big names. I think the off season is going to be one giant raspberry just like the acquisitions that were made after the all-star break last season.
Oh, no
I don’t want Pudge playing for a division rival. I like him too much. This would be worse than if Polanco had signed with the Twins. Granted, the Royals are the least irritating of the bunch, but still…
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
I would
Like to eventually see Pudge as a bench coach or something there of, I think he would be good, he’s played his whole life and I think he’s s personable guy.
That would be cool, especially if he was a coach for the Tigers
I think I remember him saying he wanted to work with kids, though.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
I love Pudge
I would hate to see him with the Royals and love to see him with the Royals at the same time. Because even though he’d be on a rival team, I would get the privilege of watching him play. I am bothered that Polly left but more so because Polly went to the NL and we’ll rarely get the privilege of watching him play.
I still like watching him play, but I would hate watching him play AGAINST us so many times
I’d actually like him to re-sign with Texas. They love him there anyways.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Wake could use a coach...
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 4, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Well, being boring about it is better than stabbing us through the heart
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm...
It seems that the writers are starting to change their tune from “The Tigers ARE having a fire sale” to “The Tigers SHOULD have a fire sale” (speaking more about Mike Axisa than Jon Paul Morosi). Morosi does make an interesting point: If the Tigers free up payroll by trading away Jackson/Cabrera/Granderson, they may have a tough time getting Justin Verlander to sign a long-term deal because dealing those players away decreased the team’s chances of winning, and Justin may (understandably) be scared off by that.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
I also found that interesting
where he said that “JV was not on the trade block but his future was indirectly tied with the outcome of what may happen over the next few weeks”. So in essence if they don’t keep enough of the big names around even if he’s offered arbitration, he may not take it. I really get ticked off at these writers sometimes, but I have to keep in mind that some of what they write is only opinion.
+10000000000000000
I also don’t want to see any other team next to JV’s name ever.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Kinda like when Morosi said that the Tigers were “listening to offers on Cabrera” (and I can’t imagine there have been THAT many serious offers). I wonder if his sources told him that or if that was based on that Lynn Henning speculation piece that started this whole thing. Morosi was not very clear on that. (And Lynn Henning is most definitely entitled to his opinion, even if we don’t like it, but it should not be presented as fact by other writers).
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 4, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Got this from a Cubs fan
Carrie Muskat (their MLB.com beat reporter) writes in her blog:
The Cubs have had conversations with Detroit about Curtis Granderson, but it’s difficult to believe the Tigers will trade the popular center fielder.
Keep in mind this is only her opinion, and I’m not sure of her level of knowledge concerning the Tigers, but still…
I'm going to try and start a trade rumor.
The Indians are going to trade Shin Soo Choo to the Tigers.
Now that I’ve gotten that crazy out of my system I can continue to be disappointed to see Choo in the Naughty Logos’ uniform.
I'll do that too
The Cardinals are tired of putting up with Albert Pujols’s crap (like the winning and the community helping and whatnot) and are going to deal him to the Tigers for Cale Iorg, 17 bats and a player to be named later.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
you're kidding, right? Not enough!
I’m sure the Cardinals want at least 27 bats. At least! And a bag of pucks baseballs, too. :)
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Ooooh, my turn
Buster Olney says the Yankees are cutting payroll. Therefore, they MUST be having a fire sale.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 5, 2009 7:14 AM EST up reply actions
THIS JUST IN....
One player from each team has been dealt to the Tigers. The players (to be named) are at the sole discretion of the Tigers. Each team in return will receive a TWO topping pizza at the normal Hot n’ Ready price from the Tigers owner.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
HEADLINE
The Detroit Tigers have traded Curtis Granderson to Seattle for Carlos Silva.. and have moved Edwin Jackson to SF for Barry Zito.
How’s that for a fire sale!?
Ok, I am such a dork
I went looking for the headlines on this, not keeping in mind rumors were being spread by you guys…
I think the only firing that would go on
Would be torching DD’s office.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
pfft
I did it again and its spelled Interest
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/four-teams-interested-in-pudge.html
I wish we'd pick him up again
His BA has dropped off sufficiently, but he still finished up WAY higher than G$ … and we all know what he can do defensively.
The rational, level-headed, blogger side of me realizes that ship has sailed and it would never work
…but my inner fan loves that idea. Could you imagine a catching tandem of Pudge and Laird? No one would run on us ever.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 5, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
If Pudge is willing to sign for cheap
Then maybe… Avila could get regular AB’s at Toledo. And we could deal one of them at the deadline (not for Kyle Farnsworth, please) for something we need and then call up the kid.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
I didn't mean it as actual strategy...
But if Pudge follows the same pattern he did last year, he’s more interested in playing time, not money.. And as far as Avila goes, well, it’s not so much the ABs I’m worried about. If I were to send him to Toledo, it would be more for getting him lots of reps behind the plate. After all, he’s got a proud history to live up to.
As an aside, may I ask one question: How do you know for sure that Avila is “it?” How do you guys know he won’t flame out like Dusty Ryan did? I don’t want to invest in Avila emotionally until I know he’ll live up to my expectations of him (As I’ve said before, I’m exceptionally picky about my catchers).
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 5, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Ryan didn't flame out
He got screwed by Leyland. The tools are still there, and I think Ryan could easily be a starter or a real good backup- I’d like to see an Avila/Ryan tandem at C as soon as the trade deadline this year.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Is there any position that you don't want to replace with the prospect equivalent?
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 5, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
WTF?
I phrased that really badly, and when I hit the “backspace” key, it posted it instead.
What I meant to say is, is there anyone on the team over the age of 25 that you’d like to see stick around for 5 or 6 years?
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 5, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
Cabrera, Inge, Granderson, Verlander, Jackson.
There’s really no reason to use the mediocre veterans we have that cost us so much money when we have cheaper, possibly more productive in-house options at SS, 2B and possibly C. Every time I advocate for prospects, it’s in a position where the alternate options suck something fierce ($3MM for a decline phase Adam Everett at SS or $6MM per for a decline phase Placido Polanco at 2B or any amount of money for Fernando Rodney) or where I think we can cut money without losing too much of an advantage (Gerald Laird, who is due to make $3MM+ in arbitration versus an Avila/Ryan combination which would cost the league minimum). I really wish we didn’t have players like Ordonez (who is pretty much replacement level at this point in his career) or Robertson (blech) or Bonderman (the odds of him coming back are low), but what can you do.
Plus if we cut costs by letting go of Polanco and Everett and Laird it may mean that we get to keep Granderson and Jackson.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 5, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Also
I’d take Milton Bradley. ;)
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 5, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think you and one other person are the only people on this board who feel that way
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 5, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
At this point
I think it’s become a running joke. :D
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 5, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, you're making me feel old and I'm only 26 :-)
I keep half-expecting you to advocate trading Verlander at the deadline so that Casey Crosby can take his place (Seriously, though, you reckon Crosby is headed for Erie or Toledo? If it’s Toledo, I may have to go to a few more Mud Hens games so I can scout him out for you guys).
In any case, though, I’m of the belief that a prospect has to earn his way into a starting job, either in spring training or through the course of a season. If it’s just one position with someone who has consistently put up good numbers in the minors for a few years (like Sizemore; I do wish he was better defensively, but I put more of a premium on catcher and shortstop defense than second base. Catcher and shortstop are probably the two positions where defense should always take priority), that’s okay. But once you start throwing in four or five rookies who haven’t earned their spots, watching the team endure their growing pains would get a little hairy.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 5, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
It's a calculated risk
Prospects can earn playing time by performing well at earlier levels too… it’s how the system works. There’s also a fear among a lot of fans that prospects are inherently risky, but veterans are the same way- you have some more security, but the older the vet, the less security you have (see Edgar Rentaria). And I’d argue that Dlugach, Sizemore, Ryan and Avila have earned at least a legitimate shot with the big league club.
Regarding Crosby, he’ll start the year at Hi A Lakeland. He still has a loooooooong way to go.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 5, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I'm sure we can come to some sort of compromise
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 5, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Keep Laird, go with Dlugach and Sizemore?
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 6, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
whoa ...
When I first glanced at that I saw the word “intersex” and had a large shock and a big helping of wtf to go along with it.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Hey, are any of our guys playing winter ball right now?
I know Avila had been, and last I checked, he was only hitting about .150 or so (it’s been a while since I looked, though), but I was wondering if there was anyone else.
I think Wilikin
is playing in the Dominican Republic (or was) because I think their season done or almost done
A lot of the bigger stars show up close to the end of the season and in the playoffs
So guys like Wilkin Ramirez and Alfredo Figaro will lose playing time once that happens.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 6, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE AWAKE AT THIS INSANE HOUR
So weird seeing a live comment come up right now.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Right but I think its only if the teeams
have a shot at winning the title. For instance: the team that Maggs is on is in last place, so I doubt he’ll play, but I know he attends playoff games, I have photos of him there.
Well
I would say in all of that Biggy has paid off; but Dontrelle, will the Tigers EVER get their money’s worth out of him?
Miguel by himself is worth the six players we gave up
I’ve heard that the Marlins insisted that Dontrelle be part of the package. The problem wasn’t so much the acquisition of him as it was the big contract extension.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 5, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of Dontrelle...
I’ve been working on a blog post where I look at quirky items from the MLB.com Holiday Catalog, and I came across this:
It is $89.99. Nobody is going to buy this.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 5, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
It is kind of a shame that Dontrelle's pitching has gotten so out of whack, because he seems like a nice guy
I hope he figures it out, but that’s no easy task (stating the obvious here).
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 6, 2009 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
even if he doesn't figure it out
I hope he manages to find a spot in community outreach or something. Since he obviously cares about it and is an engaging personality, I think he would be happy doing something he thought was important.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Just a few more hours, mis amigos
And then we will find out who is right: the bloggers or the media. I just hope DD’s definition of “overwhelmed” matches our definition.
Edwin Jackson for
Max Scherer and Stephen Drew?
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 6, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I've been rewatching games this evening
some of game 163; which wasn’t as nerve-wracking the second time around. a bit of an ALCS yankees-angels game. and tigers vs. angels in august that I went to was still on the DVR as well, so I have that on. just watched a bitchin’ strike-em-out, throw-em-out by JV and G$.
Gotta love those strike-em-out, throw-em-outs
I DVR’d some of those old All-Star Games that MLB Network was showing last weekend. So far, I’ve watched the ‘94 game and the ’95 game. They’re kinda trippy, actually.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 6, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
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