Evening Prowl: Granderson-Jackson Trade Reactions, Views on Scherzer, and Other Minor Deals Made Today
by Ian Casselberry on Dec 8, 2009 7:30 PM EST
in News
183 comments
As we did yesterday, let's do a little recap of Tuesday at the Winter Meetings thus far, if for no other reason than to catch some breath after the big three-team trade involving Curtis Granderson and Edwin Jackson. (Maybe you heard about it?)
The deal's still not official, pending physical exams. (Jason Beck mentioned that Granderson hadn't heard from the Tigers as of this afternoon, and hasn't heard from them in a while, which may have been an indication of their plans.) But that's apparently the only hurdle left to clear.
There's plenty to sort through, which I'm sure we'll be doing - both as a blog and community - in days, weeks, and months to come. I know there's already been a lot of that today at BYB, as this deal is viewed from several different standpoints and through a range of emotions.
As a baseball writer, I think the Tigers made a good trade and am excited about the pitching they've received in return. Max Scherzer and Daniel Schlereth should be fun to watch over the next few years. As a fan, I'm disappointed to see a popular, homegrown player like Granderson off to another team. And I really came to enjoy watching Jackson pitch this season.
For tonight, however, I'll leave the emotional reactions to The Detroit Tigers Weblog and Mack Avenue Tigers. Detroit4Lyfe rounded up a lot of the post-trade response thus far. Here's more from today:
Ken Rosenthal says the Diamondbacks viewed Scherzer as a reliever, not a starter, which is why he was on the trade block. His mechanics also raise some eyebrows among scouts.
That lines up with what D-Backs beat reporter Nick Piecoro wrote early this morning, after trade discussions had stalled. Lack of a consistent third pitch, an inability to pitch deep into ballgames, and - again - those mechanics were all causes for concern.
(Hat tip to Mike McClary)
Fangraphs' Dave Cameron believes the Yankees are the winner in this deal, as they're getting the best player in Granderson. But he thinks the trade "makes some sense" for the Tigers.
ESPN's Keith Law, however, thinks Detroit came out on top here, getting two power arms and a full-time, lower-cost centerfielder. Law especially likes Schlereth out of the Tigers' bullpen, and sees Jim Leyland handling him well. (Insider)
If you'd like to learn more about Austin Jackson, the centerfielder coming to Detroit in return for Granderson, check out this NY Times profile of him. Tyler Kepner writes about Jackson's lack of power, basketball skills that almost led him to Georgia Tech (and comparisons to Chauncey Billups), and his status as a top prospect in the Yankees' organization.
(Thanks to granderson28 - who might have to change that screen name - for posting that in comments.)
In a FanPost, Boney thinks Tigers fans will eventually learn to like this trade.
Long-time Tigers minor leaguer Mike Hessman signed with the Mets today. The agreement is a minor league deal, with a payout if Hessman chooses to play in Japan (the amount depends on when he goes). Hessman didn't get a call up to Detroit this year, batting .217/.324/.442 with 23 homers and 77 RBIs in 131 games with Triple-A Toledo.
Detroit also picked up a minor league catcher this afternoon, signing Robinzon Diaz. Diaz played with the Pirates this year, splitting time between the Triple-A and major league clubs. The Tigers were reportedly interested in Diaz before the trade deadline.
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Hessman's news got lost in the day
I think he’s the big winner right now. Should get a shot at the big dance at some point now. In Detroit’s system, he didn’t stand a chance.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Mechanics, huh?
why is “Dontrelle Willis” the first reaction to pop in my head when I hear that term?
That’s probably unfair…I’m sure it is…but Scherzer needs to be a quality starter right away for the Tigers, or Dombrowski’s acumen regarding starting pitching prospects is going to be even more suspect.
Official BYB Juju Consultant...now accepting rally creature applications!
Mechanics
Insofar as he may get hurt, not that he may forget how to pitch.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Wasn't that a concern with Dontrelle, even in his rookie year?
That with his ungainly motion, he might not make it 5 years before breaking down?
Official BYB Juju Consultant...now accepting rally creature applications!
Starter, absolutely.
We’ve got long relief men, at least in 2010. Robertson and Miner, whichever one doesn’t make the rotation (or both, who knows).
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Milton to Tigers? [I thought Angels, but apparently not]
Another AL team is in mix for #cubs Milton Bradley but it’s not Mariners or Angels. There could be announcement Wednesday
http://twitter.com/CarrieMuskat/status/6478531566
If he's an upgrade, I won't be too pissed if he produces.
I want another World Series win for the Tigers, personal opinion on players be damned.
Ding.
He’s an upgrade in LF. Especially with CF becoming a question mark, something we haven’t been used to around these parts.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
If they do get Bradley
he won’t play LF, Carlos has already been assured he’s the everyday guy there. As sad as it’s going to be to watch, the position is his.
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh
DD is either a genius or an idiot. Right now I’m leaning toward idiot; I hope he proves me wrong. Very, very wrong.
Guillen for Bradley switch
Which is what I’ve been touting, that’s not an issue.
And boo hoo, we don’t give Carlos Guillen what he wants? Learn to hit the damn ball and we’ll talk.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 8, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
Ah
I believe I was the first guy to suggest that. Not to get all territorial over my ideas, but I’m just saying.
/end giant ego
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, no worries
It’s something I considered when we were linked to him, can’t say I ever posted about it. We’ve got a lot of the same ideas with regards to the team anyway. This way we know this is a good one!
Right?
RIGHT?!
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 8, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
lol
Just giving you a hard time. It’s nice to have an echo- that way you don’t think you’re crazy.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Just giving you a hard time. It’s nice to have an echo- that way you don’t think you’re crazy.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 9, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
It's not the drama that bothers me...
…it’s the idiocy. Milton is a moron, and his appearance in the outfield would only further solidify how much Granderson will be missed.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." -Mark Twain
Buh?
He’s not a bad fielder. The sample may be small but his career in LF has gone extremely well.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
I don't dispute that he can play
baseball. Like I said toooooo much Drama goes with him, where ever he goes. We really don’t need that here.
Please point to one instance of a player pointing out Sheffield as a clubhouse cancer.
Or hell, even a well-written piece about how he was such a negative impact among other players that their performance on the field suffered.
Sheffield was liberal with his opinions about a great many things related to baseball. Doesn’t mean the man was a clubhouse cancer.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 8, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
I never thought of him as a cancer...
a pain in the butt, but not a cancer.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
He got trashed by a lot of people
Media and fans alike. I just don’t see it being that big of a deal in the end.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 8, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
I certainly understand the aversion to MB and I know I'm in the minory on this, but
I kind of like him and I also remember how he absolutely torched us in the 2006 ALCS. If he can be a shade of that Milton Bradley, then I’m for picking him up. I seem to always end up with him on my fantasy team, and so have followed his career closely from a distance. Some of his bad publicity is his own fault, but I’ve also seen him bond with players (Swisher, Hamilton) and become a team guy. I’m less worried about his attitude than his frailty, but if we can get him on the cheap and have the Cubs pay some of his salary—I’m unsure what kind of deal he has—I’m all for this.
by BarbaroGarbeyc1984 on Dec 9, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
YES YES YES YES YES.
A million times yes. I’ve said on numerous occasions we should be targeting Milton Bradley.
And now at Beyond the Boxscore and Project Prospect!
on the way home from work I was
listening to 97.1 the ticket (sports radio) and they were talking about the players the tigers picked up today. I can’t remember which one Scherzer or Schlereth, had Tommy John surgery in high school. I almost think it was Schlereth and I was kind of bothered by that. They went on to say just what Rosenthal said, both of these guys are viewed as relievers. We actually need starter and bats. Where are the bats? Offense is pitiful (or was). I don’t expect much to change in the near future.
I will head to a game or 2 when the season opens to see what the 2010 Tigers have to offer, but next season may turn out to be one in which I watch most games from the comforts of home.
Scherzer had Tommy John
But he consistently throws in mid 90s, having more Ks than innings (and we’re talking about 170+ innings!)
this is is 2010 (well almost)
Tommy John don’t mean shi*t
This.
Tommy John doesn’t mean what it meant when Tommy John had his surgery.
“Although our success rates are close to 85-92% in elite pitchers, other studies have shown only 74% of high school pitchers return to play,” [Dr. Michael Reinold, rehabilitation coordinator for the Red Sox] says. “Bottom line, if you have this procedure, there is going to be a lot of hard work for an entire year or more.”
Scherzer had it in high school and has posted stellar numbers in the past two seasons. I’d say he’s clearly in that 74%.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Stop listening to The Ticket.
Seriously. Those guys are Grade A Morons. Every time I’m in Detroit and I turn them on, within 10 minutes I’m turning it off due to the large amount of stupid. They’re basically morning show shock jocks that stay on one topic for an hour… all day long.
Scherzer had the surgery. It has not had a visible, negative effect on his pitching to this point.
The Diamondbacks viewed Scherzer as a relief man. The rest of the world sees him as a starter. Schlereth is a potential closer and fits in with the rest of our minor league organization under that heading.
Putting the 2010 team under now, December 8th 2009, is one of the most foolish things I’ve read with regards to this trade.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
And when someone disagrees at them...
They scream at them, hang up, and talk about how the guy was a moron for an hour…
I remember listening to them coming home from a Tigers game and they were talking about how Stafford could be rookie of the year. A guy called in and said that it was the biggest who cares argument he’s ever heard. He said he wanted to see the talent level and see him produce and just get him the experience. The guys repeatedly yelled at him and hung up on him (something I’ve rarely seen on radio). Then they talked about it for the rest of my trip home. So much to talk about, and you choose your last caller?
I always listen in the morning
rarely in the evening, I was just curious about the trade. In the morning they don’t talk much sports. It’s usually current events. I hate Valenti and Foster. Those are the evening guys.
I will not tell a lie...
…this move officially sent me to the bar, where decisions like this are typically “discussed” over some wings and beer. After several of both, I have two three thoughts:
1) This was inevitable. Unfortunate…but inevitable. The extremely poor financial decisions the Tigers have made in the past are finally coming back to haunt them. Anyone who believes that economics had nothing to do with this trade is off their rocker.
2) This may not actually be all bad. I will also shamefully admit that I was extremely pissed about the Tigers getting rid of Jeff Weaver back in the day. Looking back on it now, the signature players in that trade (Carlos Pena and Franklyn German) are no longer Tigers, but Jeremy Bonderman was a HUGE part of the reason the Tigers beat the Yankees in 2006, and it’s not like they were actually wrong about Carlos Pena. The point is, we never know how these trades will turn out until these players careers are almost over, so I guess I’m going to turn my initial dissapointment into excitement.
3) I’m bummed to see Curtis Granderson go. Not a player of his caliber, not a person of his character, but THE player/person Curtis Granderson. For anyone who has followed the Tigers for more than a couple of seasons, losing Curtis Granderson hurts a little bit more than it probably should…considering the vast majority of us have probably no personal relationship with the kid. I won’t go into all the reasons I think Curtis would have made a great Tigers “Lifer”, but I will say thanks Curtis. Oh, and when the Yankees come to town you better believe the fans will let him know where we think he belongs!
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." -Mark Twain
^"two three thoughts."
Yes I’m aware of the idiotic typo above, but like I said…this is several beers in.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." -Mark Twain
1) Then anyone who’s actually looked at the numbers is off their rocker. $5.5m comes off the books in 2010 for Granderson. Jackson had no contract for 2010 yet (but wasn’t a FA). After 2010, you’ll see that a bunch of bad contracts comes off our books and we could easily afford Granderson’s ballooning contract.
2) It’s not that bad of a trade. We get some nice pitchers and a potential CF. Scherzer, from all regards, could be an ace. If he continues developing like he has since 2008 we’ll have Verlander-Scherzer causing a lot more fear than Verlander-Jackson would down the road.
3) It sucks to lose the off-field presence, but I doubt that was even factored into the ultimate decision. We’re talking raw baseball talent here. The Tigers organization just got a nice influx of it.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
On item #3.
I’d feel a lot better about this if two of the pieces of raw baseball talent weren’t heading straight to the bullpen. We still have an alarming lack of everyday baseball players who aren’t of the AAAA variety.
I agree with point #2. I doubt this ever entered the decision. They may think of it down the line, but the deal would have happened regardless. The Tigers haven’t had a true face other than Grandy since Gibby and Tram, and they don’t have one now, unless you count JV, and who knows whether or not they can sign him. Cabby’s incident takes him out of consideration.
Some people
would say Inge falls into that category. But not me. I am not an Inge hater, just not a huge fan of him either. Curtis was shaping up to be a true franchise player, someone who the Tigers’s could build a team around. So now what?
I wouldn't say Curtis was a franchise player.
Good? Yes. But if you’re asking me to build a team around one player, Granderson isn’t it.
+1
That would be either JV or Miggy.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Curtis was the face of the Tigers
People knew him and liked him. Even People who didn’t follow baseball. I would say that makes him the face of the team. When people are out buying stuff just because his name is on it, I would say that does make him a franchise player. And was definitely the kind of person you would want representing your team.
yes
and he will do the same thing for the Yankees, he’s built that way. He will be sorely missed in the community
Charity is nice.
and it puts him in the public eye. But to say that a team is built around him is kinda mad. Essentially at this point in Grandy’s career he’s a nothing more than a power hitter with a very good glove.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
Also, how many times did we hear...
…“maybe Granderson shouldn’t focus on off-field stuff so much?”
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 8, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
Fine, you get off the hook.
However it was a statement uttered by several fans and the media alike. It’s not an unknown thought when it came to Granderson this season.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
You can have a face.
I’d rather have a championship. Cabrera’s off-field stupidity was a black mark but winning makes people forget many things (look at Kobe Bryant).
This trade isn’t the end of the world. Hopefully things work out but it isn’t a doomsday event.
It's just like losing Pudge...
Or if you’re a Pistons fan Big Ben or Billups. Or if you’re a Red Wings fan, Shanahan or Osgood (only to have him ultimately come back).
This one hurts
…but admittedly, losing Pudge hurt more (from a personal standpoint, anyways).
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
I hated seeing Pudge go...
especially for that 4 eyed freak.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
I'm usually not an emotional person, but Farnsworth will bear my wrath for eternity
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
mine too...
as much as I love Polly, Pudge will forever be my Tiger.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
Tigers will be hard pressed to find
someone who can play CF as good as Curtis. I may not know as much as most of you on here about baseball, but I do know that he had the speed and agility to cover what is the largest outfield in the AL. When you think about that and you have Maggs and Carlos in the corners, its going to be a tough job for someone to do. Whoever it is.
It will be multiple people.
Jackson isn’t ready, by most accounts. Wells isn’t ready. Raburn can’t play the position.
DD may grab someone off the scrap heap to fill in for half the season.
He can defend well
That wouldn’t be a bad option if we picked up Bradley or Burrell off the scrap heap…
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
They can't play centerfield
At least Coco Crisp can
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
No...
Crisp in CF, Maggs in RF, Crisp in LF
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Bradley/Burrell in LF...
I’m an idiot
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Geez, if cloning was an option, we could do much better than that
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Totally JV
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
We wouldn't have to worry about losing him to free agency
Just make another clone of him and voila! Six more years of club control…
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
One in the hand...
…is worth two in the bush. Two All Stars better be worth 4 potential All Stars.
This was not a simply a “baseball” decision, and you’re flat nuts if you think that financials didn’t play a role in this move. The Tigers know where they stand financially and I’m sure they figured they couldn’t afford both these players when it came time to pay the piper. It’s better to get something now than to lose them both for nothing later.
I don’t know how you can say that Scherzer “from all regards” could be an ace. If the Diamondbacks felt so great about him, why are they even willing to let him go? That doesn’t mean I don’t like the trade for him, I actually thought that Edwin’s value peaked this season. Regardless, this may turn out to be a nice trade for the Tigers…but there is a reason why the Yankees got only one player back.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." -Mark Twain
This is the second time you've called people nuts for thinking financials weren't that big of a deal.
Yet you’ve provided zero real defense of it. This is where I go “put up or shut up”.
Plain and simple: you do not know something about team financials that the rest of us don’t know. Unless you’re secretly a front office staffer posting here, you can not possibly provide special insight here aside from what DD and co. have said publicly.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 8, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Apologies
I didn’t realize that this was a legitimate source for investigative reporting. If you’re asking that I have documentation showing that the Tiger’s financial situation is dire enough to consider dumping payroll, then you sir have got me…I do not have said documentation.
However, Dave Dombrowski has publicly stated that this was a “business decision” and I am using my interpretive powers to read that financials had something to do with this “business decision”. If it is wrong for me to believe that the General Manager of the team might actually know a little more about their financial status than what you can provide on a spreadsheet, then I guess I’m just a sucker.
Furthermore, all those salaries that you talk about coming off the books can/will be easily used up trying to re-sign Verlander, Porcello, and if Scherzer ends up any good…Scherzer. This team is just not made of money. They overextended themselves to try to win a Championship and now they have to take a couple steps back to re-evaluate themselves.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." -Mark Twain
I want a Salary Cap...
I’m tired of the Yankees being the only ones to accept these trades now. The Red Sox too… Those seem to be the only teams that can afford anything. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, SALARY CAP SALARY CAP SALARY CAP.
Also...
The D-backs rotation is looking pretty good… Only if they could manage any offense, they might be a playoff contender (the weak division helps as well, their only competition is LA).
I am so disgusted
I’m thinking about taking my clock-counter for opening day off of my Facebook. may not seem like much, but trust me that’s a biggy. 121 days to go…. :o(
If it's another reliever I'm gonna flip
I am sick and tired of all these relief pitchers.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Package would be nice
Seay and maybe Thomas for a blocked player.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
*twitch
I F*CKING HATE RELIEF PROSPECTS. I F*CKING HATE RELIEVERS. I F*CKING HATE THE CONCEPT OF THE BULLPEN.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Sorry
I needed an emotional release.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
You sound like my baseball guru
“Back in the day, the starters finished their own damn games”
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I hate Nick Punto
Can we blame this whole thing on him?
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds good.
Nick Punto, you are on notice!
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
via www.mlbtraderumors.com
The Red Sox discussed a Curtis Granderson trade with the Tigers, according to Amalie Benjamin of the Boston Globe. Apparently, the Tigers wanted Clay Buchholz and Jacoby Ellsbury (Michael Silverman reporting).
Ugh. Seeing Curtis in Red Sox uniform would have been downright repulsive.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
Because pinstripes are just that sexy.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Hey, Yankees > Red Sox any day of the week
I can tolerate the Yankees. I loathe the Red Sox (and the Indians).
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yankees/Red Sox > (Indians = UNC = Pittsburgh)
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Erm...
Yankees/Red Sox > (Indians = UNC = Penguins)
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
BLASPHEMY!
THE INDIANS ARE THE SPAWN OF SATANS ASS!
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Inside A Head
on A-Jax defense
MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo breaks down the minor leaguers in the deal. For those of you wondering about Austin Jackson’s defense, Mayo offers the following: “Many feel he has the skills to be an everyday center fielder at the Major League level, with above-average range and a solid arm.”
Morosi perfectly expresses my greatest fear about this deal
“But I can’t help but wonder if that future is now less likely to include Justin Verlander.
Verlander, 26, is only two years away from free agency, where a nine-figure contract may await. He is from Virginia. He lives in Florida. Do you think Verlander, a competitor on the order of Roy Halladay, will want to stay in Detroit if players of Granderson’s caliber are being traded away? The Tigers’ performance over the next two seasons will need to convince him.”
verlander is not going anywhere
the trades were made in part to give Verlander the $$$$ he will be asking for
by Tigersin2010 on Dec 8, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No big
We just get rid of everybody except JV and Avila. We won’t need to cover the rest of the field. :)
Hmm
162 games times 27 outs… 4374 strikeouts.
Totally feasable.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'd pay to see that.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Well, that way I wouldn't have to worry about Avila's throwing ability
…but what about the rest of our starters?
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
We already had the money he'll be asking for
We lose almost half our payroll by this time next year. He’s not going to ask for $50m/year.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 8, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Then
We say no and go sign the best FA on the market that year.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
I thought it was our objective to lock him up THIS offseason...
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
News to me.
It’d be nice, sure, but he’s not eligible to be a free agent until 2012.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 8, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm...
For some reason, it was my belief that once a guy was a year away from free agency that he’d be very likely to want to enter the market.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 9, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Tigers 100 loses This Year Again!
More no talent lefties, stupidity reigns again in Dumbrewski’s trades.
Screw that
Let’s lose them all- field the 2008 little league champions!
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
And yet...I'd still go to the BYB meetup and one game in August
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'd go too
It would be comically hilarious. And we’d get a good draft pick.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
You'd have to think, with our pitching, we could win at least 50 games where we score 4 runs or fewer...
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
And
Since we’re soon to have the best bullpen in baseball (or Dombrowski gets it) we’ll never cough up any leads after the starter leaves!
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 9, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Dumbbrewski?
So he’s dumb and drunk. Creative.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
As an aside, I do wonder how many trades are made under the influence of alcohol
An NBC Sports report pointed out that there are three bars in the hotel.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a good strategy for getting a player
Might actually explain the Mariners old GM.
“Hey Bill, it’s Carlos Silva’s agent… wanna have a couple brews?”
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 8, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
That walk of shame would be incredible.
I may have slept with an unattractive person but at least I didn’t sign Carlos Silva for 12 million a year for 4 years.
Snap
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 9, 2009 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Wait...
Aren’t you the person who said that all the Tigers had to do was play .500 baseball down the stretch and they’d easily win the division?
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 8, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Knock it off.
Post something substantial or be treated like the troll you are. Coming in and dropping random nuggets of ignorance like that are only proving to me that this trade is in fact a good idea because people like you just see red the second a big name isn’t on the team anymore.
Wake up, there is more to this trade than Opening Day 2010.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 8, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
My take on the Granderson trade
I hate to see Granderson go but a strike out prone lead off hitter that bats .249 shouldn’t be an organizational cornerstone.
We get younger, and I think Grand Man, as much as it really hurts, will be as good as he can get offensively.
"The Dallas Cowboys might be America's Team, but the New York Giants are America's DREAM team." -- Robert Tisch
He'll probably enjoy a small uptick in New York
Especially with that home run “jetstream” everyone keeps touting for whatever reason.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 8, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
MILTONBRADLEYMILTONBRADLEYMILTONBRADLEY
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 9, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
Is it possible for me to go to sleep now without having to wake up to more…carnage?
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 9, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
Carnage is trading Cabrera or Verlander for a bag of prospects
This was a good baseball move with calculated risks. Kurt said it best earlier when he talked about DD putting himself on the line with this one.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 9, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Any trade where you lose beloved players is carnage
Your scenario of trading JV or Miggy for prospects would qualify as “senseless carnage”
Carnage is sometimes necessary in baseball. But as you say, we’ll have to wait a bit to find out if this was “necessary carnage”
Or, to put it more gently, whether losing Grandy was a “noble sacrifice”
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 9, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree.
Seriously, you’ve got to look at this objectively. You’re allowed to mourn the loss or whatever but you’re just tirelessly being negative about it, acting like we just got four copies of Edgar Renteria circa 2008 in exchange. You’re just haplessly chasing the emotional aspect of the trade.
Does it bite to lose a guy beloved by every fan and involved in the community? Absolutely, there’s no doubt about this. However at the end of the day DD is running a business, not a charity. It might sound harsh but it’s a reality.
Besides, it’s not like Granderson was the sole Tiger involved in the community — Everett and Inge’s wives have an organization that I know of which both of them work through and Inge has a permanent visitor’s pass to Mott Children’s Hospital in Ann Arbor.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Actually, I'm not a very emotional person at all (and it's one of my pet peeves if someone thinks I am)
I am not a prospect expert (though I have seen three out of the four acquisitions on occasion thanks to MLB.tv), so I have had to rely on a lot of you guys for assessments on what we’ve gotten (and you and DDBB have been especially helpful in this regard). Based upon what I’ve gathered here, my objective opinion is that the return on Jackson seems to be pretty good, but I think we can and should have gotten more for Granderson (as an aside, I freely admit that I would make a horrid GM, mostly because I think too much like a filmmaker and would go for guys who would make the best movie characters).
However, I am also a story writer and sometimes my keyboard gets away from me in terms of prose. Baseball is a lot like war. You’re in a constant battle, and every side is adjusting their strategy to gain the upper hand. However, it’s not pretty. In baseball and in war, there are many casualties, and that is what I meant by “carnage” (And that’s all I meant by that. It’s simply a metaphor). We have sacrificed two of our own so that we may survive, thrive, and triumph. And along with sacrifice comes exploitation. I generally like most of our longtime players (some exceptions, but on the whole they’re a good group), but I can be downright ruthless with guys I’m unfamiliar with. When we have a rookie comes up to the big club and makes an immediate positive impact, one of my usual catchphrases is “might as well milk him for all he’s worth.”
So let the sacrifice not be in vain. Let us kick some ass in 2010.
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 9, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
Denial
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 9, 2009 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Or bargaining...
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 9, 2009 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
@Jim_Leyland
“Yankees don’t want Granderson’s charity work (would rather him take extra BP vs. LHPs) but we’re insisting that goes with him.”
2100 Woodward and Twitter
Ouch
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 9, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
It's a valid point.
While Granderson struggled this year, many people questioned his heavy off-field obligations.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
by john.kmiecik on Dec 9, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Understandable
But still… ouch.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 9, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
My three favorite fake Leyland tweets:
“Finalizing a deal with the Yanks…making sure they send over a box of cigs.”
“I better be packaged with a box of Marlboro’s to LA.”
“Big series coming up. If Hawk tries to buddy buddy me, I’m going to send Fu Te Ni after him. That kid can scrap you know.”
The general tone of the sentiments seems to be begrudging acceptance, which is my sense as well...
Losing Polanco and losing Granderson (and to a lesser extent, losing Edwin Jackson) might make good baseball sense, but it’s killing me inside. I realize the hard stats and financial beancounting, but much of what fandom is goes beyond mere statistical and monetary computations. I understand why this is happening and buy the logic, but I’m not nearly as excited about 2010 as I was only recently.
by BarbaroGarbeyc1984 on Dec 9, 2009 12:55 AM EST reply actions
Agreed.
To be honest, I can pretty much guarantee I won’t be buying tickets for as many games as I would be if Curtis were still here. I hope they actually save money by trading Curtis, because he sure sold a lot of tickets and merchandise.
What if the Tigers are in first place in 2010?
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 9, 2009 6:38 AM EST up reply actions
Then it doesn't matter
We can hope.
For Milton Bradley.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 9, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
See you in 2011 with the packed house, then.
Go ahead and take the season off. Plenty of us will keep the light on for you.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
The 2006 Team
By my count, we’re down to nine remaining Tigers from our beloved AL champs: Inge, Verlander, Maggs, Guillen, Bonderman, Robertson, Miner, Santiago, and Zumaya (10 if you count Bobby Seay, but he spent barely any time with the big club and by all accounts, he’s not long for this world).
Yahoo Sports reporting that POSSIBLY
Bradley to Detroit for Dontrelle. So if that’s the case, I might be able to stomach him
We sure as hell better win the World Series in 2010, though
by SabreRoseTiger on Dec 9, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
I love Dontrelle
No matter what anyone says. If Bradley comes and Dontrelle goes I’ll hope that D-Train lights it up in Chicago and that Milton will shake off the Bud Black Curse.
Linky?
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Dec 9, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Pass.
Even if this was real, Willis is not a problem contract we’ve actually a problem with. Insurance is saving us a boatload of money on him. Rather see the Guillen/Bradley swap occur.
2100 Woodward and Twitter
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