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Stark Views of the Fifth Starter Battle

Matt mentioned this in the comments of yesterday's Morning Prowl, but just in case you didn't see it, Jayson Stark shared a couple of scout's takes on the Tigers' two struggling fifth starter candidates. 

First, Nate Robertson:

The Tigers need either Robertson or Dontrelle Willis to step up and win their fifth starter's job, just so 20-year-old Rick Porcello doesn't have to start the year in the big leagues. But Robertson has scouts shaking their heads over his "minus" stuff. "I really think it's over," said an AL scout. "He pitches like he's 40 years old. No life whatsoever. His stuff has gone backward across the board."

"Pitches like he's 40"!  Maybe Detroit should try harder to bring back Kenny Rogers.  At least we know he can pitch as a 40-year-old. 

I'm guessing, however, that this scout hasn't watched Robertson in his last two outings.  Today, for instance, he was pretty good, pitching four scoreless innings with five strikeouts, one walk, and two hits.  Jason Beck seemed a bit concerned that he got more fly ball outs instead of ground balls, but they were outs nonetheless.  And the Nationals have some decent hitters in their lineup.

Here's the take on Dontrelle Willis:

A scout who has seen a lot of the Tigers this spring says Dontrelle Willis has thrown so badly that "I don't think he's in their [rotation] mix at all." When Willis sacrifices stuff for command, he can still throw strikes. "But when he gets in favorable counts and has the leeway to add a little more stuff," the scout said, "it goes all over the place." This guy has $22 million coming the next two years ($10 million this year, $12 million next). So while the Tigers need his permission to send him to the minors, he'd have to say yes -- or forfeit that money.

And nothing we saw last night would do anything to change that opinion.  It's peeking through your fingers as you're covering your eyes sort of stuff right now.  Even Rick Knapp is now saying, "Okay, we'll try it your way," trying to find a comfort level for Willis, even if it means bringing back the "herky-jerky" that seemed to be the cause of so many of his problems. 

The Tigers seem willing to let the D-Train try and work it out, and with just over two weeks left in Spring Training, they have the time for it.  But you do have to wonder if Robertson has made a breakthrough, perhaps leaving Willis as the one who's now fighting for a job (and maybe even a roster spot).

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Just got home from work and see Robertson had a good outing. Willis is working with Rick Knapp and he’s got 2 weeks to maybe get it together. Rick Knapp seems like a terrific guy, and can connect with his pitchers. Hope it works out!

by densogirl on Mar 20, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I cant stand Robertson....

…..His velocity keeps going down…..I sure hope Willis gets the 5th sport becasue at least we will see someone who loves the game pitch every 5 days!!!

by BennieBladesFan on Mar 20, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting Timing . . .

Ian, it’s kind of funny that you come out with this story and then not hours after you post it the Tiger’s website posts two very positive stories about those same two pitchers. I wonder if it’s propaganda, or maybe wishful thinking on the Tiger’s part. Or possibly . . . and I’m going to show that I’m also a Lion’s fan, eternally hopeful . . . these guys are actually going to turn it around based on a looseness regained or confidence gained.

Obviously one start after a mess of terrible outings does not create a lot of hope, but hey, why not?

by TennesseeYooper on Mar 20, 2009 8:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Robertson

Hey, if Nate is picking it up, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt. But we can’t give away any games, ’cause the Central is gonna be tight this year.. probably.

By the way, maybe someone can answer his, because I couldn’t find an answer through some light Googling…

Porcello = Poor-sell-oh or Poor-chell-oh??

download my minimalist tigers wallpaper here

by explosivo2k2 on Mar 20, 2009 9:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I’ve mostly heard it poor-chell-oh, but also the other way. Don’t really know for sure.

by densogirl on Mar 20, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I haven’t heard it at all! I get most of my sports news from the ’net. And check BYB all the time for my updates on the Tigers.

So yeah, a definitive answer would be awesome. I’ve been saying it Poor-sell-oh, but I don’t wanna look like an idiot.

download my minimalist tigers wallpaper here

by explosivo2k2 on Mar 21, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Poor-cell-oh

I HEARD DAN DICKERSON SAY IT THAT WAY ON THE RADIO!!

download my minimalist tigers wallpaper here

by explosivo2k2 on Mar 21, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

SIDE BAR

Cleetus hit a triple yesterday…….Where is the CULT?

by Zappatista on Mar 21, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

WILLIS WILL BE 5TH STARTER!!!!

Robertson is done in Detroit….With his latest outing he is easily tradeable along with Clevlen to a team that needs some pitching…..Willis will start in April and if that doesnt work say Hello to Mr Porcello……DONTRELLE WIL HAVE 2 GREAT STARTS TO END THE SPRING AND WILL BE NAMED THE FIFTH STARTER AND START THE HOME OPENER!!!!! GO D TRAIN!!!!

by BennieBladesFan on Mar 21, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions  

unique perspective

I think we do forget that good outings out of any of these guys instantly make them trade bait for teams absolutely in need of some pitching. Obviously, their contracts might make that impossible. But DD and Jim DID say they expect to make one big move before camp breaks. That was awhile ago, though. I wonder if they were just waiting for Nate or even D-train to start pitching better to make that possible. I do recall Ian’s post (or comment, I can’t remember) that had a scout’s take on Nate— that he wasn’t throwing as hard and his pitches weren’t as sharp. But I do like this perspective that a potential trade could happen.

Personally, with the uncertainty surrounding Bondo’s shoulder, in addition to the contract situations of Nate and D-train, I think it’s unlikely. But it’s not a bad thought one bit.

by Detroit4lyfe on Mar 22, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Baseball Prospectus 2009 Projected Standings

They just re-ran their projected standings for 2009, with a defensive adjustment or something. Here’s how they see it:

Cleveland Indians 86 -76
Detroit Tigers 85 -77
Kansas City Royals 76 -86
Minnesota Twins 76-86
Chicago White Sox 74 -88

Someone pass the Kool Aid, I’m really talking myself into the Tigers being a contender…

by ThaWalrus9 on Mar 21, 2009 11:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Here's what they had to say about them

Joe Sheehan invoked the troubled auto industry when describing the Tigers’ payroll issues earlier this week, and while from the longer-term standpoint the outlook isn’t pretty, there’s more reason for optimism on the 2009 front than previously thought. With the exception of the Dodgers—whose addition of Manny Ramirez understandably rocketed them up the projected standings—no team has seen its PECOTA projection improve more since the beginning of the spring than the Tigers. A month ago, when Clay Davenport first ran the Playoff Odds report, the Tigers were at 78 wins, while today they’re at 84, just two behind the Indians. That has much to do with the aforementioned defensive adjustments; last year’s club finished 11th in the league in Defensive Efficiency, but they’ve knocked about 60 runs allowed off of their initial projection, thanks mainly to turning over the left side of the infield from Rent-A-Wreck and Carlos Guillen to “Quality .216” Everett and Brandon Inge. The calculus of the comings and goings doesn’t reflect the retirements of Kenny Rogers and Todd Jones, whose departures aid their payroll and their overall projections given last year’s craptacularity. Nonetheless, there’s still a whole lot that needs to go right in the pitching department for this team to live up to the forecast, starting with rebounds from Justin Verlander, Jeremy Bonderman, Joel Zumaya, Fernando Rodney, and the incoming Lyon—and yes, that’s a lot of ifs.

by ThaWalrus9 on Mar 21, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

That looks about right, except...

I don’t know if the Twins would be that far behind with their starting pitching. I have questions about their offense (even if Joe Mauer isn’t hurt) and bullpen (besides Joe Nathan), but Minnesota almost always finds a way to be in the race.

by Ian Casselberry on Mar 22, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

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