Should Leyland Have Pulled Jackson?
by Ian Casselberry on Apr 8, 2009 10:15 AM EDT
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintNot that anyone's questioning the decision to pull Edwin Jackson in the eighth inning last night (or maybe plenty of people are, and I'm just misreading the situation), but Jim Leyland addressed the matter in his post-game remarks.
"There was no question that he was starting to go. There was no question about that. It was the perfect situation for Seay to come in, get out the one lefty who was a pretty good hitter. We got that. We felt real good about it, but there was no doubt in my mind about that. I don't question that at all. He gave us everything you could ask for and more. Rolen hit the home run, and we had the unfortunate little play there that we didn't make. That's all part of the game."
Though Jackson had thrown 89 pitches to that point, making one think he could've stayed in longer, isn't this why you have a bullpen? To pick up the game when the starter tires out? Not to mention the folly of pushing a pitcher to the limit in his first game of the season. Unfortunately, the bullpen dropped the game badly.
Later in the season, if faced with a similar situation, it'll be interesting to see if Leyland feels he can't trust his relievers (despite any character they may have built) and keeps his starter in the game, hoping he can finish it out.
So is it far too early to second-guess such a decision? Leyland made the right call, didn't he? It's just that the bullpen couldn't follow through. What do you say?
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Bullpen Woes......Not Again!
You can argue it till your blue in the face but I agree 100% that Jackson should have been pulled. Quite frankly I was upset he came out for the 8th inning at all, regardless of a shutout its way to early in the year to be going for those kinds of things. We needed to get our 1st win, first and foremost to get us on the right track.
Seay did his job just fine and it was all well & good. No one was worried, & then this guy name Lyon came out the mound. I had that gut feeling we were screwed as soon as he came in. Not that I would have felt any more comfortable having Rodney come in @ that point & time. Frankly the whole bullpen keeps me on egg shells.
I pray 1 day we’ll recapture the magic we had in ’06 where most anything that could went in our favor!
I don’t have a problem with pulling Jackson. He was grunting so loudly the microphones were picking it up. I DO have a problem with Leyland’s inability to correctly assess which relievers should be used when. It makes no sense to me to bring in Lyon for that situation when he’s not a strikeout pitcher (8th inning) and he’s not a ground ball pitcher (leaving him out for the 9th). If Ryan Perry isn’t on the team to come in when they need somebody to throw gas past one guy, why is he on the team?
by mattintoledo on Apr 8, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Not a good sign, but not end of the world
Leyland was all for leaving Jackson in, but his 8th inning pitches were getting up and out a lot. It’s early in the season. He’s young. He was ready to be sat. If you can’t feel comfortable sitting your starter after 8 1/3 innings, you don’t have a bullpen, period.
Do we?
An important thing to remember is that before it got tatooed for the go-ahead runs, Lyon’s curveball was actually damn good! Hill was looking for it and got under it with a great swing. Similarly, the walk that started the 9th inning danger was only accomplished after Lind fouled off what seemed like 100 more great pitches.
Would you blame Duchscherer when Inge did the same in the statement game of 2006? The Blue Jays won that game more than the Tigers lost it.
I’m not ready to throw Lyon under the bus yet. But if this continues, and Leyland starts stretching the starts, I agree we’re in big trouble.
When the bases were loaded with 1 out in the 9th, we really missed Zumaya. A closer is a guy who can get you a scoreless inning, but when you need two outs and an outfield fly is off the table, it’s time for power pitching. Part of me kind of hoped he’d throw in Ryan Perry and go for broke.
Was not Lyon night
Therefore, somebody else should come in and pitched the ninth. If bullpen by committee, you pitch whoever is on a roll.
Pulling Jackson was the right move. My question is about his bullpen management. Why did he leave Lyon in so long when he clearly did not have it? I did not want to see him come out to start the ninth but I can understand that. Once he gave up the one out walk though, I felt it was definitely time to try somebody else.
ya, huh?
I was absolutely suprised when BL was on the mound again in the 9th, I was fully expecting 2 c Rodney out there. It’s a shame the 14mil $ man & throw n the dTrain, was not even worth a descent relief pitcher, what’s that over $20m, that’s 400,000 pizzas!
like we talked about
Yes. Jackson was out of gas. I think he was even a bit shocked he came out in the eighth, then he tried to give Leyland the ball early.
I am fine with all the decisions Leyland made. He’s got Lyon, he’s got to use him like he was intended, to see if he can do the job.
This was in the game thread last night a bit, but I absolutely agree that Jackson should have been pulled. No use over-stressing your starters at this point in the season. Jackson had a great outing and to see it get dismantled at his own hands would have been horrible — more so than the Lyonfest that followed.
Last night
Yes, Leyland taking him out was OK. My point last night re letting him stay in was that we probably would have won even with a tired Jackson. That is how bad Lyon is. Not a reflection on Leyland’s decision to take him out.
How long has it been since we’ve seen a Tigers’ pitcher be so dominant? Edwin was just terrific last night.
It's a long season
No reason to tire out Jackson in his first start. As bad as it was, it was still only 1 game. We can still split the series and end up 2-2 when we come home to play Texas. I’ll be surprised if we don’t win that series; we typically play well against the AL West.
As Beck said...
…Jackson had clearly lost some of that swagger. He was falling behind guys, not tossing that first pitch strike, and he’d done more than enough. Lyon just sucks.
Her we go again
Deja vu any1? Which leads me 2 believe what I said a few months ago, Mr. D needed 2 acquire a solid closer, & why wasn’t Lyon pulled anyways? Where was Rodney, he seems 2 b the only 1/2 way descent guy we got n the BP & he was kinda inconsistent last year 2, kinda like the rest. How many games did the BP lose last year & it looks like they’ve picked up, right where they left off. EJ looked very impressive, better than JV did, it’s a shame Mr. D can’t tell by now JZ is unreliable, just seems 2 b milkin his contract, sittin on DL every year, what a shame…
Using caution is preferred.......
………and it’s too early in the season to be pushing a relatively unproven, young starting pitcher to do too much. So Leyland was definitely justified. Jackson worries me a little bit. Maybe it’s just me, but it seemed like last night whenever Jackson didn’t get a first pitch strike, it went to his head and really caused him to try too hard to make up for it. I don’t want to see him lose his confidence so easily, and I think that Leyland understands that Jackson is fairly fragile mentally. But like I said, maybe it’s just me who thinks this way.
Lyon just scares the s*** outta me though. Like many people mentioned last night, he is a Todd Jones redux. In fact, he scares me more than Jonsey ever did, because at least I knew that when it came down to it, Jonsey would get the job done 90% of the time. Lyon has a track record of being a complete basketcase. I know we shouldn’t freak out and judge Lyon’s potential performance for this club on a single game, but last night was a continuation of what he’s been doing for years in Arizona. Oh, and by the way, AL hitters are only slightly more imposing on average than NL hitters, so way to go DD!!!
I don’t mind him pulling Jackson. That decision is obviously a catch-22 if he had blown it. What I do question was bringing back Lyon for the 9th, which to me was another case of Leyland’s overreliance on veterans. Seems to me that would’ve been a good spot for Perry, while saving Rodney for a lead.
The world's greatest wiffle ball tournament! TheFatty.com
Lyon was the only decision I’d second guess, but more the decision of DD to sign him that the decision of Leyland to use him. What choice does Leyland have? Maybe Perry would’ve been a better call, but if Lyon is supposed to be our 8th inning guy right now we have to find out the hard way whether he can hack it or not. But I have a feeling he’s going to make a lot of us more pissed off than Todd Jones ever did. Two games in and it’s already feeling a lot like 2008. We’ve lost both games the same way we lost most of them last year. Either the starter falls apart and blows the game early or the starter looks good but the bullpen can’t hold on to even a comfortable lead. My instinct is that we’ll be fighting KC for 4th place again.
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