You guys are going to have to come up with something better than “we’re in first place, so don’t complain.”

-We’ve got a General Manager who is spending ludicrous amounts of money on nothing.
-We’ve got a manager in Leyland who hasn’t won a division since 1992.
-We’ve got (as a team) a history of failing in the second half.

Well, maybe you can tell me what young hitter is coming up out of the system that’s worth taking a look at? Nobody seems good enough to have won a starting job every day. It’s just a constant platoon for players who wouldn’t make the grade if they had to start 140 games a year.

I’ll be the first person to eat my share of crow if history doesn’t repeat itself. But (so far), there’s nothing that convinces me this will be the case.

How do the Tigers fail as a franchise? The Tigers have one of the better front offices in baseball that has drafted quality players in the last 4-5 seasons and turned down deals that other teams have foolishly made. Sure, there have been questionable deals made (Renteria for Jurrjens and Gorkys) but at least there weren’t overly stupid deals made (Soriano for Jurrjens and Maybin only to see Soriano subsequently leave and sign in Chicago).

The contracts you reference were offered years ago, and the only truly questionable deal is Willis. My assumption of Willis’ extension was to buy out his arbitration years at a rate cheaper than a re-vamped Willis would earn in arbitration (which is why Florida dumped him to begin with).

Nate Robertson’s contract is questionable but he had come off a solid 2006 season in which Leyland ran him out there as the Game 1 pitchers in the ALDS and ALCS. It’s hard finding quality left handed pitchers and when you do, you pay them. $7m isn’t exactly breaking the bank, it just seems like it is now.

Bonderman’s contract is a no brainer. 24-25 year old guy without a history of injuries at the time, near the top of the AL in strikeouts, on his way to becoming a top of the rotation guy for years to come… you gotta pay him or he leaves.

Magglio’s contract was signed years ago and every year he’s been worth it until this year. The incentives are stupid but the Tigers offered it so they have to pay for them if he reaches them.

Guillen has earned his contract every year as well until this season. Considering he was a SS at the time he signed his deal, his extension was worth it. The guy has hit all over our lineup and driven in timely runs for this team since being acquired.

Detroit is not a failure of a franchise. They don’t go out and hand blank checks to guys (Pavano) just to sign a name. Renteria wasn’t really a bad deal if he would’ve produced at his 2007 numbers. Detroit needed a SS since Guillen could no longer play the position.

Obviously not winning 100 games a year and signing free agents who 70 games into the season make your hindsight kick in and say “damn we could’ve had Torii Hunter and his 17 homeruns if Detroit would’ve signed him” even though Granderson is only 28 and this team’s centerfielder.

Trevor Hoffman? please.

The only guy I wish this team would’ve acquired was Mark DeRosa, but the team needs a left handed bat. Every team needs a solid left handed bat, so a left handed hitter is expensive.

All teams make questionable moves and trades, and Detroit is no different. The good thing is, year in and year out the teams makes good picks in the draft and is not afraid of signability which a lot of teams are. This offseason was one of the best in recent history by acquiring “glue” guys and going to back to basics. Last year they tried to outhit everyone and obviously that didn’t work.

based on the sheer level of negativity towards the tigers.

But I know Valenti has at least a basic idea of how contracts work in Major League Baseball, so you can’t be him.

The Twins and Tigers are both bad road teams and good home teams. That, I think, is pretty indisputable. The Twins have played more home games than road games. The tigers have played 7 more road games than home games. The Tigers have a four game lead. They’re in a good spot here. There’s nothing to indicate the Twins will be able to overcome the tigers other than “they’re the Twins, that’s what they do.” Twins haven’t won the division since 2006. They’re a 500 team, and that’s what they’ll be. Based on how the Tigers are playing, and the number of home games they have remaining, they should be an over 500 team pretty easily. The Tigs should be favored to win this division, absolutely so.

And inform all the posters what this Tigers team would look like if you were in DD shoes? Give us your ultimate 25-man roster.

Quote: “There are some good young players on the team, but the reality of it is that some of the Tigers best players of the last few years have come from other organizations (ie, Jackson, Cabrera, Ordonez, Pudge, etc).”

In this sentence, Winter encapsulates his arguments that A) older players suck at baseball, and B) teams worth following are built from within (this last point was never actually articulated, but I think it’s implied above).

Ignoring a multitude of other nonsense arguments, I would point out two things. Torii Hunter and Trevor Hoffman. Winter thinks a non-failing franchise would have signed them. But they are old. They were not discovered by our scouts. Bringing them here would have only been a symptom of the problems Winter has diagnosed. And they would have started to be terrible at baseball soon and would have been overpaid because they are old (actually, I’d agree for once on that last one).

Point being, this thread is too crazy to even wrap your head around. But Kurt was right that it’s entertaining, if frustrating. Comments have doubled since I started reading.

Well I’ve tried to state my case in as plain and in as non-insulting a way as possible, but it seems that at every turn, a simple statement is met with the harshest of criticism. I really never expected to be called half the things I’ve been called…stupid, crybaby, etc.

I also found out that I’m leaning more towards the Nats than the Tigers. And that people only look at the standings of today and don’t look at the deeper issues going on with the team and how things might turn out down the line. I don’t see this team winning the division, I honestly don’t.

But since you guys don’t seem able to respond in a civilized manner to a criticism that was not even directed at any person here, I will take your advice and leave. Some of what I said might be wrong, some of it might right. I only know that I stated what I think and apparently it’s the greatest of sins to express an opinion that runs contrary to what’s already in someone’s mind.

It occurs to me that this is how truth-tellers are generally treated. First, they get scorned. Then, they get exiled. And then, if they really start persisting, they get burned at the stake. Well that’s the feeling I get, right or wrong.

As far as I can tell, this is a franchise that is simply not worth my effort or my time or anything. The only reason I posted here was to let off some steam about my frustrations with this franchise as a whole. I didn’t do it to make friends, and I didn’t do it to gain approval. But on the other hand, what I didn’t expect was the somewhat puerile behavior that resulted.

I will do as you all seem to suggest and keep my opinions to myself. Enjoy watching the Twins play in October.

This franchise doesn’t want you as a fan.

Good bye, enjoy your 100+ loss season the Nats will provide you this year.