Elijah Dukes??

by grozzy on Jul 1, 2009 12:07 PM EDT Comment 44 comments

So the Nats just sent down Dukes and are supposedly looking to dump him. I really hope Dombrowski has his eye on that. Dukes is incredibly talented and seems to have shaken off a good deal of the baggage he had in Tampa. We could use an athletic power hitter like Dukes. He seems like a younger, cheaper, more athletic Thames at worst and has the potential to be a middle of the order power hitter. What are your thoughts?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff. However, it does reflect the views of this particular fan, which is as important as anything else written here at BYB.

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Potential isn’t always realized. I suspect that will be the case for the career of Mr. Dukes.

Mack Avenue Tigers

by MackAveKurt on Jul 1, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

On a baseball level, kid is skilled. Five tools, and he’s been able to use all five in the Bigs (see his hot streak earlier this year).

Dukes’ problem lies mostly with his attitude. I still think it can be fixed with a veteran manager who doesn’t take crap (Ozzie Guillen/Dusty Baker/Jim Leyland type), a positive clubhouse environment and a role model or two (Thames and Granderson, maybe?).

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 1, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

he would kill Guillen. on the field. if he ever played for him ;)

by RollingWave on Jul 2, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

Something tells me that they’d be at odds for a couple seasons, but that Guillen would inevitably break him.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 2, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For some reason, Dukes has always struck me as the next coming of Juan Encarnacion…and the Tigers have been through that experience before.

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by ahtrap on Jul 1, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not sure...

I would probably say no. Franklin Gutierrez is an OF I would like to see the Tigers get from the Mariners. I’m not sure they would part with him, but it’s a good option IMO. .274 hitter with 7 homers, and he’s heating up over the last few weeks. $450,000 salary doesn’t really hurt.

by actioncuse on Jul 1, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dukes “realized” a .264/.386/.478 line with 13 HR and 13 SB last season (334 PA).

He’s also an above-average defender in RF.

Elijah would be a tremendous addition to the team.

by MacRae on Jul 1, 2009 8:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

I’ll take that at league minimum.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 1, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So will I.

Oops.

a .709 OPS in 184 at-bats in 2007.

a .723 OPS in 193 at-bats in 2009.

Where do I find this guy with the .864 OPS again?

Maybe he’s out threatening to kill people and knocking up teenagers again.

I’ll pass.

Mack Avenue Tigers

by MackAveKurt on Jul 1, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dukes's attitude problem outweights his potential.

Unless we want cellphone pictures of guns and death threats on our team. If that’s the case then Dukes is our man.

by 13194013 on Jul 1, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you’re going to cast a guy off for 220 PA in his rookie season and less than a half season of PA in 2009?

I know you’re hell bent on keeping Magglio and his .663 OPS in RF, but that still doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

by MacRae on Jul 1, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where's the risk?

Yeah the guys had some off the field issues, but so has Josh Hamilton and I’d bet anyone would like to have him on their team! I haven’t seen or read about any issues since Washington hired a “Special Assistant: Player Concerns” in 2007, to chaperone him (which Josh Hamilton has also).

I don’t know though, I’m deadlocked on this. I think he’d be an improvement over Anderson and Raburn, but only if his attitude is 100% straight.

by jryno on Jul 1, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You got to wonder if he’s a guy not wanted by the Ryas, then he flunks out of the Nationals, what, exactly, his baseball future is.

As far as personal issues go, Hamilton was being self destructive. Dukes is destructive to others. To me, there’s a difference there.

Hamilton also made a commitment to being clean and being a different person before he made his comeback. Has Dukes?

Mack Avenue Tigers

by MackAveKurt on Jul 2, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So true...

Josh Hamilton’s story is great, I remember watching an episode of “Flip this/that house,” and the owner of that real estate company did so much to help Hamilton out and make sure he got a tryout with the local team. He made such a commitment to himself, his wife (whom I think he was separated from at the time) and kids, and family.

I don’t know enough about Dukes to say he has that commitment, but looking at his past issues and that he hasn’t cut it with 2 teams, I’d say you are 100% right, that he hasn’t made that commitment to himself.

by jryno on Jul 2, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Excuse me?

Did you just assume that Dukes “flunked out” of the Nationals?

Funny, because the Nationals say it’s baseball related.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 2, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So your thought process here is to take a 25 year old who can’t cut it in the Nationals outfield, and who they say needs more development, and who they would be happy to trade, trade for him, and then to write him in as a starting outfielder in Detroit?

Mack Avenue Tigers

by MackAveKurt on Jul 2, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to follow up:

If the Tigers are trading with the Nats, get me Dunn or Willingham. They can step right in and play. Dukes can get his work in with the Nationals and maybe — maybe — live up to that potential.

Mack Avenue Tigers

by MackAveKurt on Jul 2, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dukes is cheap

We need cheap. Desperately. We can’t afford to give away the prospects- but we can afford to take the risk on a player that may need transition time- he can’t do worse than Josh Anderson.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 2, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Josh Hamilton

has a priest and an NA sponsor, that’s a far cry from a having an ex-cop accompany you everywhere. Also Hamilton pays these people out of his own pocket, not from his club’s payroll. Huge, massive difference. There is no comparison between Dukes and Hamilton.

Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.

by Detroitchik on Jul 2, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you don't have a clue what I feel about Magglio

But thank you for thinking you do.

You like your 2008 stats, but you don’t like 2007 and 2009 stats that disagree with yours. Why is that?

Mack Avenue Tigers

by MackAveKurt on Jul 2, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because

When looking at young players, you take a long look at the whole picture and try to find the positive, instead of pointing out the negatives.

Dukes makes sense to many many teams as long as the price isnt’ ridiculas. if they’re simply looking to dump him for anything, then I don’t see why a team who isn’t exactly stacked this side of the Yankee / Red Sox should not at least look into it.

by RollingWave on Jul 2, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I feel like this...

… is my stance on it too. When you have a young player with a lot of tools, its good to look at the positives overall, and, when the asking price isnt high and the downside isnt really low, it seems like a good gamble to try.

Yeah, he only has a .244/.308/.415/.723 line right now, but thats after he came back from the DL and was being pulled in and out of the lineup, etc. When he went to the DL in May, he was hitting .277/.347/.473/.820, which I would love to have out of an OF right now.

On top of that, the second half of last season he hit .267/.417/.554/.972 with a great eye and showed speed on the base paths. Because of his athleticism, he has above average range for a corner OF as well. For league minimum, this would be a great deal.

Even in 2007, he was incredibly unlucky on balls in play, but showed an excellent eye (IsoD of .128) and hit 10 HRs in 187 ABs with an excellent ISO of .201. The bad overall line is masked by a hideous and unsustainable .192 BABIP.

by grozzy on Jul 2, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 2, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay...

Congrats- you’ve proven the kid is a lottery ticket. But if he can put up even a .723 OPS, he’s outperforming every OF on our roster not named Granderson, Thames or Raburn. Considering Thames and Raburn are a virtual platoon (or should be), that leaves an open spot for us to take a gamble. And in order to stay in contention without dealing away the farm, we need to do that.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 2, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh...

The kid hasn’t played a full season since 2005 due to injuries and issues (the issues mostly early in his career). Because of that, it’s probably best to take the numbers with a grain of salt (as much as I hate to do that).

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 2, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+5

Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.

by Detroitchik on Jul 2, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reputation

I have read and seen things about Dukes. I, like Kurt, will pass. (the +5 was for him) The Nationals had to hire a ex-cop in the role of “Special Assistant: Player Concerns”. . No Matter how good of a player he is, he is a liability. I am sure DD would agree on that . We have a bad enough reputation in this city without adding Dikes to the mix…

Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.

by Detroitchik on Jul 2, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

typo *** I meant Dukes^^^

Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.

by Detroitchik on Jul 2, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

I would have never caught it till you pointed it out.

Freudian slip?

by Tagne13 on Jul 2, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

…maybe. Either that or the I and the U are neighbors on the keyboard.

Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.

by Detroitchik on Jul 3, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

I think you’re a homophobe. It’s ok.

by Tagne13 on Jul 3, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

no, I’m not…

Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.

by Detroitchik on Jul 3, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No.

Discussion over.

by Tagne13 on Jul 2, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+10

Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.

by Detroitchik on Jul 2, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Umm....NOOOOOOOO

Well let’s see. The Nationals have given up on him so now he seems ripe for the Tigers? I’d like to think that the Nationals would be after our castoffs & not the other way around. I live in Northern Virginia and while I do not follow the Nats (would like to see their stadium though), I can’t help hearing bits and pieces and from what I recall, he still has some pretty big attitude problems and I don’t think that’s anything the Tigers want to mess around with.

by pachanga74 on Jul 2, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

At this point?

What do the Tigers have to deal for an established, solid OF bat?

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 2, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rasheed Wallace comes to mind...

…every time I hear people claim Dukes has an attitude problem, because I swear that’s what everyone said about Wallace when the Pistons picked him up.

by jryno on Jul 3, 2009 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A.I. come to mind?

Now, there’s someone who couldn’t change his stripes. Don’t want another one of those. And, why do we need another OF when we have Clete.

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by densogirl on Jul 3, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We need 4-5

Granderson, Thomas, Raburn, Thames. Neither Anderson or Ordonez cut it.

by demondeaconsbaseball on Jul 3, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I find myself being swayed by the, “why the heck not take a chance on this guy if he comes cheap?” The biggest knock on this guy is attitude, based on past exploits, right? Do we trust our team’s manager/coaching staff to be able to do a professional job in getting this guy’s baseball head on straight?

Honestly, I have no idea how to answer that question….Even after 4 years, I’m not sure if Leyland’s a players coach or a hardass or what style he takes when he’s away from the cameras. That’s partly from not being able to watch the games, sure. But it means that I can’t answer the question in a way that makes the next one moot: do the Tigers players have that character guy Dukes could take after if he were to come to Detroit? I say, in Granderson, yes, the Tigers do have such a character.

Can’t answer if Dukes would take after Curtis, nor whether Curtis would deal with any crap on Dukes’ part.

And all this is secondary to the Tigers even taking a chance on Dukes.

But all that said….if he comes cheap, if it’s a matter of a player that won’t come back to bite us in the butt (the Raburn/Anderson type, who’ll never be a real star, but could poke in a few runs here and again on a major league roster), it may well be worth a shot.

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by ahtrap on Jul 3, 2009 3:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes....

I think the Duke is worth it. For one thing, we’re talking about a 5 too guy who fell out with the Rays (before they hit their stride last year, by the way) and ended up with the Nationals who have offered nothing in the way of player development. I think he’s worth it; the past is the past, and I think (and this is pure speculation) Dukes may be helped by playing on a team in a pennant race may provide some important motivation to get his stuff together. For the league minimum, he’s worth a shot.

P.S. The Nationals also had Daniel Cabrera, who would also, I think, be worth picking up. He has great stuff with serious control issues (a bit like Edwin Jackson). I think it’d be a great idea to pick him on the cheap and see what happens in the minors…[Although at the same time, I shudder to think about my psyche when having to deal with another Tigers pitcher who throws hard but has control issues.]

by BarbaroGarbeyc1984 on Jul 3, 2009 3:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The problem with Daniel Cabrera now....

… is that he still has no control, but his stuff disappeared as well. Check out his page on fangraphs ( http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1931&position=P ), his fastball barely cracks 90 now instead of high 90s.

by grozzy on Jul 3, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

D-cab

Have a major flaw with his tools, in that he just doesnt’ have any balance. I never seen a major league player look so….. uncordinated.

Dukes’ problem isn’t that. it’s that he has a scary past and hasn’t really putten things together. while he’s brooding attitude and scary past tend to mean he has a short leash.

by RollingWave on Jul 4, 2009 4:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs