Morning Prowl: Missing Miner, Magglio's Contract, Outfield Defense, and Grandy's Slump
by Ian Casselberry on Aug 21, 2009 9:30 AM EDT
in News
51 comments
So as it turns out, the Detroit Tigers weren't one man short in their bullpen on Tuesday and Wednesday. They were down two relievers. The relief corps was already at six, as you know, after Eddie Bonine was sent down to Toledo to make room for Aubrey Huff.
But Jason Beck reported yesterday that Zach Miner also wasn't with the team for the first two games of the Seattle series because his wife was giving birth to their second child. Miner was back yesterday, of course, and pitched two key shutout innings that allowed the Tigers to eventually overtake the Mariners in the ninth.
Over at The Spot Starters, Blake is worried - very worried - about Magglio Ordonez being less than 80 plate appearances away from triggering that $18 million option for next season. And I understand the concern about that contract potentially crippling the Tigers next year and beyond, especially when they have future paydays for Justin Verlander and Edwin Jackson to consider.
But amidst all the hand-wringing, it seems to me that Jim Leyland had no choice but to play Ordonez. In mid-July, Ryan Raburn and Marcus Thames were both slumping. Josh Anderson was playing so poorly that he was eventually released. Meanwhile, Maggs has been hitting. In August, his batting line is .396/.420/.646. No, he's still not hitting for power, which is troubling. But can the Tigers afford to sit him down, at this point?
Take 75 North's Matt Wallace is now a featured columnist at Bleacher Report (joining our good friend Kurt Mensching). His latest piece laments the Tigers' bad match of outfield defense with its pitching staff. (Jarrod Washburn could tape this inside his locker.) Unfortunately, Jim Leyland has to make some concessions to offense, with as much trouble as the Tigers have scoring runs.
And if you don't think outfield defense matters, did you see what a difference Franklin Gutierrez and Michael Saunders made for Seattle over the past three games? How many doubles did those two take away?
Matt cited UZR in his column, and if you're not entirely familiar with that defensive metric, Newsday's Ken Davidoff recently spoke with the man who created it, Mitchel Lichtman.
It's Just Sports interviewed Tigers' TV analyst Rod Allen. Has Rod really been doing Tigers games for seven years now? Wow. Topics discussed include Allen's schedule during the season, what he likes to convey during a telecast, and what led him from coaching into broadcasting.
With Curtis Granderson likely to sit out his second straight game tonight (due to Oakland starting the left-handed Gio Gonzalez), Tiger Tracks looks at Grandy's recent slump. He's been terrible against lefties this year, after making some improvements last season. So what are the Tigers' options at this point?
Rob Neyer writes about the Yankees' plan to monitor Joba Chamberlain's innings once again, noting that their big lead in the AL East affords them the luxury to sit him down, if necessary. Neyer compares that to the Tigers, whose close race with the White Sox might force them to use Rick Porcello more than planned.
While explaining the process of putting players on waivers, Danny Knobler shared an interesting Tigers-related nugget. It's ultimately irrelevant, but some of you might be interested in the name he mentions.
Roar of the Tigers complains about FOX Sports Detroit's choice of programming during yesterday's one-hour rain delay. And I have to agree. I'm biased because I don't play golf, but was running "Michigan Golf Live" really the best choice in the second half-hour of that delay?
Sam also has a, shall we say, passionate description of Brandon Inge's stellar play in yesterday's 6-5 victory.
FOXSports.com's Dayn Perry pokes holes in the notion (apparently ignited by the NY Times' Tyler Kepner) that the Yankees' Mark Teixeira is a more worthy MVP candidate than Minnesota's Joe Mauer. How much might Mauer be hurt by the Twins likely not being a playoff team? And how much does Teixeira benefit from playing in Yankee Stadium, while also batting in a lineup that gets plenty of guys on base for him?
The aforementioned Neyer and Posnanski both weighed in on this debate a few days ago. (Neyer, by the way, thinks Miguel Cabrera has to be in the discussion.)
Oh, and Chris Lambert - recently designated for assignment to accommodate Jacob Turner and his new major league contract - was claimed by the Baltimore Orioles.
Did the O's management see Lambert pitch against the Red Sox last Tuesday? They remember that's a division opponent of theirs, right? Maybe they thought they were getting this guy.
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for those seeking photo of miggy from yesterday
that I tried to screencap but couldn’t -
BLS has the game featured with a photo. plus more cute ones of cletus.
by allikazoo on Aug 21, 2009 9:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just wondering
but maybe Zach Miner’s recent struggles were because his mind wasn’t 100% on baseball.
Congrats to him.
by actioncuse on Aug 21, 2009 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know the fine details of waivers.
So maybe someone who does could explain why we would put Porcello through waivers if we have zero intention of trading him. Do we somehow save a small amount of money by doing that?
by StringTheory on Aug 21, 2009 10:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For one thing, I think teams put all of their players through waivers at this time of year, most likely to cover themselves in case any possibility of a deal comes up.
Another reason might be to gauge interest around the league in certain players. Of course, any team would be interested in Porcello, and as you pointed out, the Tigers aren’t going to trade him this season.
But what if something came up next year or beyond? Maybe they think, “Hey, this team claimed Porcello. Maybe they’d like to make a deal.”
by Ian Casselberry on Aug 21, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The last point is interesting, and one I haven’t thought of. Thanks.
by StringTheory on Aug 21, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like Ian said, just routine August operations
Same as every team does.
by Kurt Mensching on Aug 21, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with you on the Magglio thing
And he does have 6 extra base hits in 51 at bats this month (2 doubles, 2 triples, 2 HR). That’s pretty decent power.
If the Tigers weren’t in playoff contention, it’d be a slightly different deal. But at this point I think we have to use our best Russian accent and say, “Pay that man his money.”
Cheer for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Aug 21, 2009 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
http://bit.ly/3w4plw
more cool photos from yesterday’s game
Tammy
by VegasTigers on Aug 21, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maggs Quick Splits...They don't look bad to me
vs Left .311
vs Right .260
Home Games .292
Away Games .262
Day Games .264
Night Games .281
On Grass .273
On Turf .289
August .373
Last 30 Days .325
Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.
by Detroitchik on Aug 21, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice!
and all I hear is complaints about plate appearances.
Tammy
by VegasTigers on Aug 21, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Simple solution...
…Mags starts at home and against lefties on the road. Check the standings again before the last three series of the year. If you’re in it, and he’s still hitting, he plays…if not…lawyer up and wait for the grievance.
by Mushy on Aug 21, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kurt is being modest
But he wrote a good column on this very subject today at his blog.
by Ian Casselberry on Aug 21, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
(Not that Kurt is modest—that he wrote a good column.)
Cheer for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Aug 21, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and many others too...
including the train wreck mentioned below
Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.
by Detroitchik on Aug 21, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
You never read things like that about Ordonez
Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.
by Detroitchik on Aug 21, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That will most certainly be an Open Thread topic later today.
by Ian Casselberry on Aug 21, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So I was pondering
If given the choice of only 2 starting lefties…. Who would any of you choose. Dontrelle Willis or Jarrod Washburn…. it’s a tough one.. but if I had, I mean absolutley had to choose one, I think I would hsve to go with Wahburn. Who would you guys choose?
Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.
by Detroitchik on Aug 21, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wash
Dead on, absolutely.
At worst, Washburn is a 4.5 FIP pitcher. That’s a fourth starter/league average innings eater. At worst, Dontrelle breaks down on the mound. That’s bad for him and us.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by demondeaconsbaseball on Aug 21, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question...
Can’t you release someone, even tho he’s on the DL or rehabbing?
Tammy
by VegasTigers on Aug 21, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
would be nice if you could, huh?
I have a couple in mind.
Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.
by Detroitchik on Aug 21, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oakland A's
Released Jason Giambi while he was on the DL
by peazgrl on Aug 21, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not exactly, but sorta
they released him a few days after he was eligible to come off it. He was expected in uniform and everyone was waiting for the corresponding move, and he was released. They should have released him months earlier, but I suppose that’s beside the point.
Braves did the same thing with John Smoltz too if I recall.
by Kurt Mensching on Aug 21, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoops I was thinking of Tom Glavine
wrong braves pitcher came out
by Kurt Mensching on Aug 21, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tigers have to get rid of the Choke Aspect of their Game
Since the World Series Choke, the Tigers have been a team that has played to not lose games!!! The Twins play to win and it shows in their grit and determination even with talent that is suspect to say the least. Clutch hits like the one yesterday have to start to the norm instead of the every once in a bleu moon. The Tigers have done a great jo of holding most leads this year thanks to a bullpen that is healthy and the great addition of Brandon Lyon. The only thing mssing is a clutch guy and Avila has been that guy recently. Avila is a rookie and is playing part-time, but when he is in the game the Tigers are much tougher at the plate to face. Laird is a great defensive catcher, Granderson is a highlight reel in Center, Everitt is an outstanding shortstop defensively and Inge has been spectacular at third. Unfortunately sometimes they all provide holes to big in the line-up for the Tigers big arms to overcome. Lloyd McClendon has been useless as a hitting coach this season!! Granderson should be a .300 20 20 guy with a .400 OBA and McClendon has turned him into pull hitting .250 30 15 guy with a .320 OBA much less valuable.
by Marcmargolis on Aug 21, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not to be the kill-joy here
as it was such a great rant, but you do realize that the Tigers have “not lost” several more times this season than the Twins have “won”, don’t you? Just thought I’d mention it.
by BigJP on Aug 21, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look.
I know these articles about Maggs gets everyone fired up and hungering for blood but it’s time for common sense. The $18m option blows as we all know but even at this point if he was outright released Boras and Maggs have reasonable grounds for winning the grievance suit, which does nothing but create extra drama in the clubhouse and will still tax the budget for 2010. Maggs looks like he is here to stay at this point.
I am as pissed as the next guy for the unreal contract he has, but let’s call a spade a spade, he has been kicking ass for us up until this year (batting title, heroics in the 2006 playoffs).
If you want to get upset about wasted payroll-
Sheffield – getting payed $14m to play for the Mets.
Bonderman – $12.5m this year, $12.5m next.
Robertson – $7m this year, $10m next.
Willis – $10m this year, $12m next.
If anything get pissed and get some articles on those guys, at least Maggs is here.
by sal. on Aug 21, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I assume the ire comes from
understanding that there is no way out of the contracts you mentioned. That money is spent. With Ordonez, there was a chance the Tigers could save $15 million next season, while the others would get their money no matter what.
I have personally written several pieces earlier this year calling for Maggs to be let go, but as it stands, the Tigers need the production that he is all of a sudden providing. so I have changed my tune. If the cost of a playoff push this season is $18 million next year, I’m happy the Tigers are willing to pay it.
by BigJP on Aug 21, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely understand what you mean,
but at this point he’d win the grievance suit and along with paying a portion or all of his contract off, it’d create stress and drama within the clubhouse. If the Tigers wanted to move him, the time has passed. Yet day after day I read articles and rants about Maggs and his shitty contract, I suppose I just had enough ;)
by sal. on Aug 21, 2009 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
there is a context to remember
When his deal was signed, the Tigers were still a bad franchise. Maggs was one of the best hitters in baseball and even with his injury, the Tigers had to overpay for his services. They did try to protect themselves with these options, however.
I can certainly understand being tired of reading the same stuff about him, as I understand why this stuff is written, having done so myself, but as of today, I am fully on board with paying Magglio all $18 million next year and riding his hot bat toward October this year. Whatever happens next year happens, we can all complain about it then.
by BigJP on Aug 21, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick question
What was the last grievance a player won?
by Kurt Mensching on Aug 21, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't think of any
since the Messersmith/Smith free agency cases
by BigJP on Aug 21, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did everyone get on the plane to Oakland?
Has there been any news on anyone being sent down yet?
Tammy
by VegasTigers on Aug 21, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
seems like it would have been announced
before they left, if someone got sent down. I hope not.
by allikazoo on Aug 21, 2009 12:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
fwiw...my take on maggs....
He can’t be waived for several reasons at this point. One, we would lose the greivance, especially now that he is sort of hitting. Two, it would damage the clubhouse beyond repair. Three, it would trash our name with agents and players. You think its hard to get guys to come to detroit now? Itd be way worse. Mr. I committed the money. It is his money. Soon to be maggs money. Waiving him would put us right back on track to being a baseball wasteland.
by rook34 on Aug 21, 2009 2:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
I tried to make your 3rd point earlier this week
I agree 100% with that…your second point too.
by Tagne13 on Aug 21, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Welcome to Detroit>>Where the weak are killed and eaten.
by Detroitchik on Aug 21, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop with the lose a grievance arguments
Because you don’t know. Sorry, but you don’t.
Frank Thomas had a great one… nothing came of it. Glavine looked long and hard… nothing came of it.
As we looked at earlier, there’s hardly a player anyone can point to who has won one. That isn’t to say it won’t happen at some point. But it’s not likely. And given in grievances the old stats — RBI, HR, avg — are given weight, and Maggs is not exactly producing in the first two, there’s far from a guarantee on the grievance issue.
by Kurt Mensching on Aug 21, 2009 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not to be argumentative...
But no one knows that we wouldn’t lose a grievance either. You want to waive him, put a hole in the lineup, nuke the locker room, injure our ability to sign or keep players in the long run, and still possibly lose a grievance? We would be headed directly back to 2003. No thanks. Bad contracts are the result of having to overpay, which we have to do to get players. Its either that or we become the oakland athletics.
by rook34 on Aug 21, 2009 7:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, if you visit my site you'll know exactly how I feel
but I think the grievance loss assumption is really not the way you want to argue this point.
by Kurt Mensching on Aug 21, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well put, kurt...
Just read the article. Excellent analysis.
by rook34 on Aug 21, 2009 7:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
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