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Leyland speaks, contradicts Dombrowski

With the Tigers winter caravan now on the road, hoping to sell fans on the '10 team, the local press is finally getting to speak with the team brain trust. How brainy they may be remains to be determined.

If you read Kurt's post about Phil Coke (and I'm sure you did, right?), you'd know Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski recently told the media the newly acquired lefty was a candidate for the 5th spot in the rotation.

When asked about Coke during the caravan's stop in Toledo, Tigers manager Jim Leyland wan't parroting the company line.

Via Tom Gage at the Detroit News:

"Personally, I'm looking at him as more of a bullpen guy."

This is coming from a manager who insisted on giving Clete Thomas 183 plate appearances in the 3 hole, so I'm not really surprised.

Guys, do us all a favor, and get your stories straight before camp...please?

Update: Jason Beck has the full quote from Leyland. It puts things a little more in perspective, but not much.

"Personally, I'm looking at him more as a bullpen guy," Leyland said. "I think we're going to have enough issues when you talk about Galarraga bouncing back and Bonderman bouncing back and Nate Robertson bouncing back and Dontrelle Willis bouncing back. There's only so many innings.

"Am I ruling it out? No, I'm not. But you can only give so many innings to so many guys in Spring Training, and the one thing you want to make sure is that you're getting the guys ready that you know need to be ready."

Even though the Tigers are already penciling Jeremy Bonderman into the rotation, expecting any of the above mentioned pitchers to bounce back to their former effectiveness is a tall order.

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Leyland elaborates on Coke- via Jason Beck

“Personally, I’m looking at him more as a bullpen guy,” Leyland said. "I think we’re going to have enough issues when you talk about Galarraga bouncing back and Bonderman bouncing back and Nate Robertson bouncing back and Dontrelle Willis bouncing back. There’s only so many innings.

“Am I ruling it out? No, I’m not. But you can only give so many innings to so many guys in Spring Training, and the one thing you want to make sure is that you’re getting the guys ready that you know need to be ready.”

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 20, 2010 10:41 PM EST reply actions  

You beat mme to it, Tigerdog1

I just caught the post on Beck’s blog with the full quote.

“Hold that thought on Phil Coke”

I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience and a deputy editor at Bless You Boys.

by BigAl on Jan 20, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Off topic

My first thought after reading: Leyland elaborates on Coke: “I tried it but it just isn’t smoothe like my smokes”.

by 13194013 on Jan 21, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

*facepalm

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Jan 20, 2010 10:47 PM EST reply actions  

I had kind of forgotten about Leyland...

and why he drives me insane. Now I remember.

by rook34 on Jan 20, 2010 11:09 PM EST reply actions  

Bondo/Robertson/Dontrelle/Galarraga all bouncing back?

“Wishful thinking” doesn’t even begin to describe Leyland’s quote. If even one bounces back, I’ll be happy.

by Elfuego51 on Jan 20, 2010 11:30 PM EST reply actions  

Bouncing Back?

About the only thing Smokey will see bouncing back by WIllis or Robertson is a few doubles off the outield wall.

by caeg68 on Jan 20, 2010 11:37 PM EST reply actions  

Or pitches bouncing back off the backstop

by mich_n_trum84 on Jan 20, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

My take on the rotation

JV, Scherzer, and KidRick are shoe-ins. I think Robertson and Dontrelle are going to be lost causes due to their performance over the last couple seasons. I really want Bonderman and Galarraga to bounce back, but I’m not too convinced that they both will; with Bonderman, at this level, no surgery is really minor, and this was a freak injury (which just so happened to hit Kenny Rogers a couple years ago). I think we get one rotation spot out of both of them, so that should leave the 5th spot open for Coke (as a lefty especially). Either way, it looks like we might have some interesting spot-starter implications, and we can leave Miner to the bullpen as an inning-eater.

by Arvay7 on Jan 20, 2010 11:49 PM EST reply actions  

Apologies in advance for being off topic, but....

Jimbo also seemed to hedge a bit on whether Sizemore might bat near the top of the order. He had earlier shot down the idea that SS would bat second, or lead off. He seems to be saying that they’d first look at Austin Jackson in a lead off role.
And it also looks like they’re not locked into “Carlos Guillen is my left fielder”, which JL declared at the end of last season. Good, but why make such comments to begin with?

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 21, 2010 12:09 AM EST reply actions  

My guess is the nicotine has addled Leyland's brain

It’s only explanation I can come up with for those screwy batting orders, the comments on Coke and declaring a gimpy Guillen his full-time left fielder…

I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience and a deputy editor at Bless You Boys.

by BigAl on Jan 21, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

you almost gave me a heart attack

when I first read “SS would bat second, or lead off” I immediately thought shortstop, as in Everett. Now, I wouldn’t put it past Jimbo, but I can breathe again after realizing you meant Scott Sizemore.

by MarkL on Jan 21, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m in the minority, but I’m really anxious to see Nate Robertson. If his elbow is okay (big ‘if’) he, beneath the ERA, had some solid peripherals for a back-of-the-rotation arm.

My old blog is Tigers By The Numbers.

Now I write at Bless You Boys.

Like music? See what I'm listening to at my Last.fm account.

by Mike Rogers on Jan 21, 2010 12:26 AM EST reply actions  

This

I still swear he was a combination of injured and unlucky in 2008, and he could be a good pitcher for us once more.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Jan 21, 2010 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

He was. I mean, he wasn’t lighting up the scoreboard with K’s, but he was 3:1 K:BB ratio with a 92-MPH heater. That went away when he started throwing 88-89 with his 4-seamer and I think that coincided with his injury really affecting him. I honestly think he’ll be the “surprise” pitcher this year (after guys like Byrdak and Galarraga in past years).

My old blog is Tigers By The Numbers.

Now I write at Bless You Boys.

Like music? See what I'm listening to at my Last.fm account.

by Mike Rogers on Jan 21, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Even 2008

108-62 K/BB ratio with a .343 BABIP as a flyball pitcher screams unlucky.

It’s nice to see someone else that agrees.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Jan 21, 2010 2:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I was jumping all over that last year

I agree. I hope you’re right. He could easily be a decent #5 if he’s finally got it together for the first time in a few years. That is a BIG IF, though.

by baum on Jan 21, 2010 7:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm with you guys

His performance, although extremely small sample size, was ok at the end of last year.

by MarkL on Jan 21, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Right on

I know everyone is saying Bondo is a lock for one of the last two spots, but in my mind, Robertson is the closest thing to a “lock” out of our candidates for the last two spots. I am hopeful he will be money.

Galaragga, however, is dead to me. :)

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on Jan 21, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

One of the things to remember . . .

. . . about baseball managers commenting to the media is that they are not (or at least, should not be) speaking their mind—they’re talking to an audience that includes their players. Leyland at this point of course ought to be positive in public about the chances of guys like Robertson, Galarrega and Willis—he doesn’t want to discourage them. I suspect, though, that we’ll see Coke given a chance to stretch out as a starter, even so.

by rea on Jan 21, 2010 7:11 AM EST reply actions  

Willis? Really?

I don’t understand why Jim even threw Willis’ name in the mix. I think there’s a chance Bonderman and Gallaraga bounce back, and Robertson to a lesser degree, but I don’t see why we haven’t just cut Willis loose. If my some miracle he did bounce back it would probably be the greatest comeback in the history of professional sports. The guy is done.

by Sutelc on Jan 21, 2010 8:29 AM EST reply actions  

we get insurance money I do believe...

I’m not exactly sure why but I believe we do.

My Music: Now on last.fm!!
My Blog: Inside A Head

by madpoopz on Jan 21, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

We get insurance money if he can go on the DL . . .

. . . and if the Royals had cut lose Greinke when he had the same trouble as Willis, that would have been a mistake.

by rea on Jan 21, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Reposting this because no one probably saw it on a post that fell off the front page

I think people are sounding far too confident they know what they’re talking about with insurance when, in fact, we don’t have a clue what we’re talking about.

We just don’t.

It’s possible he’s been insured for some amount, but we don’t know for how much. We don’t know when it kicks in. We don’t know if the insurance company will dispute the reasoning for the disabled list. (And they should, on general principle. It is their money at risk for a non-physical injury.)

Unless anyone has any concretes to fill in all the holes, we should probably all sound less sure of ourselves on the topic of insurance.

Here’s a post with a bit more information, anyway.

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Bless You Boys.com -- MackAvenueTigers.com

by Kurt Mensching on Jan 21, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Track Record Best Projection Tool

The best tool we have to make projections is major and minor league track records and history of injuries. Looking at Armando Gallarraga we see a peak year as a rookie at age 28. He will be 30 this year, past a peak that is not that great. His minor league statistics were nothing we can build our hope on. He is most likely to not make the rotation. Next is Wilis. I cannot recall anyone making it back from the kind of collapse Willis has experienced. The history of baseball is littered with players who lost it emotionally and dropped out for unfathomable reasons, and I think that’s where Willis is. That leaves Bonderman and Robertson. Both had several good years at early enough ages to give one hope that they can bounce back from their injuries and travails. I think both stand a good chance of making the rotation, and at least one of them making it is a good bet. I also think that by mid-season we’ll see someone from the crop of minor league arms float to the majors.

"I have seen the future, and it is much like the present, only longer" - Dan Quisenberry

by 3strikes on Jan 21, 2010 10:22 AM EST reply actions  

I look at this for Armando as well...

he pitched excellent in the first month of last season and than just tanked. Guys don’t typically tank that hard. They get worse, some faster than other, but with Mando it’s like between starts going from April to May something just happened. It’s still too early to call him done I think and really out of all the names he’s the one I have the most confidence in even though I project Bondo as the 4th starter.

My Music: Now on last.fm!!
My Blog: Inside A Head

by madpoopz on Jan 21, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Greinke, Ankiel and Hamilton

“I cannot recall anyone making it back from the kind of collapse Willis has experienced. The history of baseball is littered with players who lost it emotionally and dropped out for unfathomable reasons”

by rea on Jan 21, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Not too accurate...

Greinke was a mess, but not a “walk 8 guys in 3 innings mess”. Ankiel had to stop pitching and come back as an OF. Hamilton’s problem was drugs.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Jan 21, 2010 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

So what I can glean from this is that

Leyland isn’t on Coke. This is shocking. Wasn’t he in Pittsburgh in the 80’s?

One down, 477 to go ;-)

by ChrisDTX on Jan 21, 2010 11:03 AM EST reply actions  

Leyland and decision making

Leyland and Dumbrowski should be on the same page. It’s good business. I think Jim is stubborn at times and has the propensity to make a bad choice in terms of player personnel. Neifi Perez ring a bell, Clete batting 3rd 183 times, pulling Porcello when he did in the do or die game for Minor (who blew it), leaving Rodney in there for 4 innings (brain fart), not pinch hitting for the human ground out (Laird) with a chance to blow the game open. By the way, will someone tel Laird he doesn’t have to swing so hard. With that crappy upper cut swing and swinging out of his shoes each time, he is a tremendous liability at the plate. His defence doesn’t make up for his lack of offense and I don’t understand why they don’t see it.
Not a Leyland fan. He’s better than Trammel, but I don’t like the way he manages a game. There should have been more fallout from the one game playoff decision he made. Frustrating.

by Chuck W on Jan 22, 2010 12:18 PM EST reply actions  

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