Leyland speaks with the press on a number of subjects
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 21, 2010 6:00 AM EST
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintWednesday, Tigers manager Jim Leyland conversed with reporters on myriad subjects during the Tigers' caravan stop in Toledo.
MLB.com's Jason Beck and the Detroit News' writer Tom Gage both included a number of these quotes on their blogs, so be sure to check those guys out for more details. And Big Al has already written about Leyland's views on the possibility of Phil Coke starting.
But what about the much-maligned Tigers batters? You'll find that after the jump.
The big story is of course the rookies in the lineup.
Leyland cautioned second baseman Scott Sizemore is not Placido Polanco, so don't expect him to hit as well the first month or two. (Or field as well, I'll add, though before you think I'm excessively negative -- too late, I'm sure -- I expect Sizemore to be in the rookie of the year conversation.)
On the other hand, Leyland's not sure what to expect of his new center fielder. Quoted about Austin Jackson by Gage, Leyland said:
"I don't know much about him, and the reviews from a lot of people I respect in baseball went all over the place. Ideally that would be great (to hit him leadoff), but you don't want to throw him to the wolves, either. He may lead off and tear it up, but I'm not smart enough to know that."
One big thing Leyland does as a manager is manage expectations through his quotes to the media. I feel like he's doing that with those players, trying to take a bit of pressure off from the start.
The Tigers manager mentioned the need for his veterans to get off to a fast start and guide the way while the above rookies adjust to the big leagues. Carlos Guillen and Magglio Ordonez will have to play much better this April than they did last. Hopefully all the injuries have healed up. Leyland also believes catcher Gerald Laird will hit better in 2010, now that he doesn't have to learn an entirely new pitching staff.
As for the Tigers' batting order, well, your guess is as good as Leyland's at this point. Like the rest of us, he does not know who he's going to be able to write in at the top of the order after the Tigers traded away leadoff man Curtis Granderson and let No. 2 batter Placido Polanco walk. The players you'd most like to see near the top of this order lack the experience that allows you to write them in from the start, basically.
So, there you have it. It's now less than a month before pitchers and catchers report to Lakeland, and we have actual baseball content to discuss. Do your thing!
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I have a crazy idea with absolutely nothing to back it up...
Let Binge lead off. I think it might work.
Lets just hope hes healthy....
….he had a double knee surgery and hes not a spring chicken anymore……Im just hoping hes healthy enough for the season.
by BennieBladesFan on Jan 21, 2010 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Inge hit .290 leading off for Tram
in the first half of the 2005 season. But then he started to tank, and was moved back down in the order. Sometimes, a hitter will adjust his approach at the plate just by batting him lead off. I would not be surprised if Clete Thomas didn’t make the opposite adjustment last year when JL kept batting him third. Clete could be a lead off hitter, but he has some adjustments to make.
We have no lead off hitter, and no No. 2 hitter. DD should go hard after Maicer Izturis.
Clete....
…..strikes out way to much currently.
by BennieBladesFan on Jan 21, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Granderson didn't exactly avoid the K himself.
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by madpoopz on Jan 21, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree....
….i didnt say he didnt…..grandy wasnt a leadoff man and neither is clete is what im saying.
by BennieBladesFan on Jan 21, 2010 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
I love asking this question:
What makes a leadoff hitter a good leadoff hitter? Because honestly, as long as they can get on base and find a way to score, I don’t really care who they are or how they did it. And that goes for every player that bats throughout the game. I guess if you want speed, then Jackson is probably the way to go. Otherwise, what does it matter?
Because honestly, as long as they can get on base and find a way to score,
ah, but there’s that whole “getting-on-base” thing first. I don’t have the figures in front of me, but I think Curtis’s OBP was in the .320s last year.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 21, 2010 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
.327, .006 less than league average.
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Yes.
And an OBP that’s too low to really be an ideal leadoff man.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 22, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
question: do you take all stats at one year intervals?
Will his OBP be 327 in 2010 because it was in 2009?
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by Kurt Mensching on Jan 22, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
I can't predict what his OBP will be
but it is worth noting he has trended downward the past three years.
And I’m going to be skeptical of him if for nothing else than the fact that he can only hit righties. Since 2007, his OBP/SLG/OPS split against lefties is .261/.309/.570.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 22, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
2007: 361
2008: 365
2009: 327
I’m not sure that is trending downwards. 2009 is certainly down, but is BABIP was 50 points off his career norm, while his line drive rate went up.
I can’t say with certainty what his OBP will be either, but I’d say with pretty good confidence it’s going to be higher than 09.
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by Kurt Mensching on Jan 22, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
I was speaking in general about his averages
slight OBP bump in ’08, but a good slugging drop as well.
And I’d hope it’s better in 2010 than it was in 2009. Many Yankee fans speak glowingly about how Granderson could hit 25-30 homeruns in centerfield. That’s all fine and dandy, but it was when Granderson started trying to be a homerun hitter where his rate stats dropped. I don’t view that as a surprise.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 22, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately, when he does rebound, everyone in the media and some Tigers fans will attribute it solely to the NYY ballpark.
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Not denying that.
My old blog is Tigers By The Numbers.
Now I write at Bless You Boys.
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when Clete chokes up his swing he's very good...
when he doesn’t he’s very bad. So it’s a matter of consistently choking up for clete. If he can do it I can see it happening.
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at first glance
I thought you typed “consistently choking Clete” and I was going to say that is a little harsh, to say the least.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
hahaha
That’s how I read it too…
i don’t even know if its a matter of choking up, as much as shortening it. If He shortened the swing and did that consistently he might improve at the plate. He is so good defensively, if he could hit, i would have more confidence with him in CF because he is used to it out there, and knows how vast it is… I wish he could hit consistently.
If Maggs and Guillen don't put it together
The season is toast. No matter what other moves they make. The whole wacky idea of contending (kinda) in the Central in 2010 is predicated on those guys getting back to something like 90% of their respective peak forms.
I would like to see them work something out for another bat. I really like the Damon idea, actually. But even if they signed him, it’s still all about those two.
I'm more bullish on Ordonez than Guillen
Magglio was really quite good post-ASB. I don’t think Guillen will ever be 100% healthy again at this point, so who knows with him.
Completely agree
I love Guillen and how he plays the game, but I agree that he’s definitely in the DH-and-declining phase. Hopefully if he can stay healthy and start, oh, 130ish games he can give them a solid .280-15-80 kind of season.
Maggs, who knows? If the second half of last season is anything to go by (I’m nowhere near convinced it is) he could be in line for a last hurrah.
I think it would be hard to keep up august-september
But if he can bat in the low 300s and Leyland puts him in the 2-spot, that could be pretty useful.
I have more faith in Magglio than I do Leyland, on those points.
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by Kurt Mensching on Jan 21, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Leyland will be gone by the end of 2011
I think we all know this team will not be that terrific in an already horrible Central division. We may be surprised. Doubtful, although I can only hope and wish. And supposedly we are “building” for when we have more money to spend for 2011. If Leyland does not win a division or get us to the playoffs in either of the next 2 years, he will be gone. And rightfully so. I say bring back Andy Van Slyke to manage this team. I hear the ghost of Sparky (even though he hasn’t passed) talking through DD about Austin Jackson and Scott Sizemore as if they were Chris Pittaro. J&S…….Out!!!
Actually....
….to me this team is no different then last years team to start the seaon except a rookie 2nd basemann and center fielder and a much better pitching staff as a whole….I think this team will be better if the rookies just do what they do best….With Valverde we clearly have the best bullpen in the division and with JV leading the starters I think the best starters as well….We will be in this thing all year and it will be becasue this team is not that bad and becasue Leyland is a good manager.
by BennieBladesFan on Jan 21, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
I'm currently not worried about the rookies
Say what you will about Jim Leyland, but he’s had a pretty good track record of bringing youngsters into the mix.
"I think we all know this team will not be that terrific"
No, we don’t all know that.
1-2
I actually think that Guillen-Ordonez at this point in their careers would make decent 1-2 hitters. I like the way that Guillen works pitchers and Ordonez seems to be a contact/singles hitter now. Obviously the big problem is that you don’t want to lift your leadoff hitter for a defensive replacement and putting Ordonez in the 2 hole makes it much more likely that the ’11 option will vest. Could be an interesting way to start the year, though.
you only leadoff once though.
so why is lifting the leadoff guy a big deal?
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timing
If Guillen would continue to be lifted for a defensive replacement it would force Leyland to either keep his subpar defense in the field longer or give up valuable end of the game at bats to a worse hitter. Obviously Guillen as DH eliminates this issue.
bleach...
I don’t think I could watch Carlos and Maggs go 1-2 for an week let along a whole season. It is true that you only hit in your lineup position once, but you hit in-front of the same people all game and I would much prefer to have someone ahead of Cabrera who might possibly score from second on a single. Yes-yes I know you have to get on second in the first place, but I have faith Rayburn-Sizemore would provide plenty of opportunities.
I love it
Guillen can take some pitches and draw out at bats. He’s also one of the savviest baserunners on the team. It may not be conventional to have your aging DH hit leadoff, but I think it makes sense here.
Maggs at #2 is a no-brainer. He rarely strikes out and usually hits for a high average.
A lifelong Tigers fan
Guillen will bat 2nd in my mind...
…mags hits 3rd…Leadoff is def up in the air….Not sure who id put there now but maybe Jackson can handle it…..After all its only one time a game it really matters.
by BennieBladesFan on Jan 21, 2010 11:59 AM EST reply actions
I wouldn't put it past the Marlboro Man...
…to pull a Billy Martin, and pull his batting order out of a hat. Hey, it worked for Billy!
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I think the lead off spot is too much attention. Once you get out of the first inning, the amount of times the lead off hitter in the 1 spot comes up isn’t guaranteed.
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my issue
with the leadoff spot and the two hole for that mater, is not how often they will start out an inning, but who they will be hitting in front of. For Miggy to get 100 RBI’s he needs people to not just be on base, but to be able to score from where they are. If there was one thing grandson did better than anyone in baseball it was take two bases on a single. As things stand now three of our top five hitters might as well be named Molina while they run the bases. The tigers do not have the power to be a station to station team they need to be able to take chances and make things happen on the bases.
I don’t have a big problem with it. For me, the OBP is way more important than the speed of the lead off hitter. It’s not like anyone who Leyland — who is very much a traditional manager — will put there will be devoid of any speed whatsoever. He’s a believer in the fast guy at the top of the order.
In fact, advanced studies show that you should put your big slugger first in the lineup because of the number of PA’s he gets (each spot lower in the lineup gets about 20 less PA’s as you move down).
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The old saying is
“You can’t steal first base”.
There are many speedy ballplayers in baseball who would be perfect lead off hitters if they could actually get on base. Willy Taveras is a perfect example of this. If he could even muster a .350 OBP, he’d be great. Alas, he sucks.
There are many other players like this.
by FloridaownsFSU on Jan 21, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Weell, but . . .
. . . the other part about batting somebody leadoff is that you’re giving them more at bats over the course of the season. Which is a big reason why you don’t want to have some speedy guy who doesn’t get on base a lot bat leadoff.
My Lineup... I just like making these things!
1. Sizemore – has 20 steal potential, so he has to be able to run the bases. Also knows how to take a walk.
2. Guillen – the closest thing we have to a guy who can put the bat on the ball.
3. Cabera – I know Leyland wont do it but i think your best hitter belongs here, plus Cabreras #’s are better with a good bat behind him. But if not I go with Maggs here.
4. Maggs – or Cabrera since I know Leyland doesnt think highly of the 3-hole, ala Clete Thomas
5. Rayburn/Thomas/Wilkin Ramirez Would love to see Ramirez getting the most time
6.. Avila/Laird Platoon. I would love to see these 2 in a true platoon with Avila getting more than 60% of the PA’s.
7. Inge – putting him here instead of 5th or 6th keeps the bottom of the order from being a total blackhole
8 Everett – The worst hitter on the team. I like him here, kinda like how LaRusa bats his pitcher 8th
9 Jackson – SEE ABOVE, plus it puts some speed in front of the top of the order. Like having him bat leadoff after the 1stt time through, but without the pressure.
nice lineup
…and it’s basically the same as mine. and though i want to see a lot of Wilkin Ramirez this year, i don’t know if i want him hitting 5. that said, i’m not really sure i want any of those guys hitting 5 and would prefer to see Avila – when playing – in 5, with whomever is in LF down at 6. but when Laird is in, he’s got to be lower.
either way, i think you’ve got the top 4 right. Miggy’s got to have someone behind him and Maggs may be the only other one we can put there. i like Sizemore up top because of his speed and contact. plus, i feel like Action Jackson isn’t ready for a leadoff role – or is at least less ready than Sizemore might be. maybe next year this discussion gets a bit easier.
that said, i’m not in any way worried about the pitching staff. Knapp’s the man and i like the guys we brought in. we’re all questioning Coke as a 5th SP, but i haven’t seen a single post about Ni. isn’t that the reason we signed him – as a long reliever or starter? he had a nice year last year and was a starter before we had him. Skip may want to give him a look as a starter too.
by GreatGooglyMoogly on Jan 21, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
Mine is similar
2B Sizemore
RF Ordonez
1B Cabrera
DH Guillen
LF Raburn
3B Inge
CF Jackson
SS Everett
C Laird
On days Avila plays, put him between Raburn and Inge (6th).
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by David Tokarz on Jan 21, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still waiting for the league to ratify my proposal
that Cabrera be allowed to bat 1-9. But, alas, until that happens I like your lineup. Except I’d use the DH spot for Everett and let the pitcher bat. Opie hits like a pitcher anyway, so why not make it entertaining!
Mags should bat second
His power has dropped off, so why not bat him second? He can hit the ball to the right side, and is a great contact hitter. He showed us how good he can be the second half of last season. Leyland needs to quit taking him out of the game in the 6th or 7th for a defensive replacement. I don’t recall mags making too many poor defensive plays and he needs to be in there late in the game when the other teams are bringing in their set-up men or closers, especially in a one run game.
by the big bone15 on Jan 21, 2010 10:20 PM EST reply actions
+1 as the cool kids say
I’ve been saying this for awhile, he’s perfect at No. 2. Heck, he could be No. 1 in my book, until the kids are ready.
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by Kurt Mensching on Jan 21, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see a reason why Maggs won’t slug .430+ this year. Had this conversation (kind of) with Kurt recently when discussing how many runs the lineup would score.
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14 actually
of course, that’s all season.
but seriously folks, i’ll be here all week.
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by Kurt Mensching on Jan 22, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Close. I think we’ll score more runs than last year but only by 10-20 in my early estimates. So around 750-ish.
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The one downside to Maggs hitting #2 is the number of DP he grounds into
But, we don’t have an ideal lineup and he is one of our 3 best hitters, so he should bat either 1st, 2nd or 4th (and Miggy is batting 4th). The batting order is pretty overrated and Leyland won’t construct it properly anyway, but I’d be ok with Maggs batting 2nd given the makeup of our roster.
based on what Leyland said today @ Tigerfest
that’s probably not going to happen. he said the top of the lineup was still a mystery but when yo have guys like" maggs carlos and miguel in the middle, you have to have someone on base so the can drive in the runs", not an exact quote, but pretty close.
so my guess is 3 4 -5 . Maggs Biggy Carlos
Raburn hitting 2
I don’t see why no one is considering raburn to hit second. He had somewhat of a breakout season, when larish beat him out in spring training it looked all but over for any chance for him to become anything more than a utility player. However he really had a good season, and hes becoming acclimated to LF, by the start of the season he wil be even better. Also this will allow guillen to dh which is clutch, we need him healthy and we need a bat like his hitting behind cabrera. This may sound counter-intuitive because ive just spoke highly of raburn, but guillen has more experience and is a switch so he is a better guy for the 5 spot. Raburn has the speed, the power (that leyland loves at the 2 stop ala marcus thames), and the ability to get on base.
1.Sizemore/jackson
2. raburn
3. maggs
4. miggy
5. guillen
6.inge (at least before the break, always seems to start strong, last season and when he led off, which was referred to earlier in this blog was early in the season, plus this allows us to go lefty, righty, lefty, with avila)
7. avila/laird
8.sizemore/jackson
9.everett
jackson
i like the idea of jackson hitting 9th unless he’s outplayed by casper wells this spring and then what? I hope they play the best out of spring training and not just give jobs away. I also think maggs is far from over the hill and will have a helluva season i’d hit him 5th behind cabrera but i’d hate to see him vested for 2011.I hope the bat D.D trades a lefthanded pitcher for is young and plays 3rd base
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