Jhonny Peralta's option will be declined, but Tigers expected to sign him to 2-year deal
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 27, 2010 6:50 AM EDT
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintOK, a real quick one this morning:
Fox Sports' Jon Paul Morosi reported last night the Tigers will decline Jhonny Peralta's option for 2011, at a cost of $250k. He adds they are "expected to reach an agreement" with Peralta on a two-year deal worth "a little less" than the $11 .5 million guaranteed to Brandon Inge.
Morosi wrote:
Peralta's range at shortstop isn't what it was, but he performed capably on defense after arriving in a July trade with the Cleveland Indians. The Tigers are willing to accept something less than Gold Glove-caliber defense at shortstop in exchange for Peralta's run production; he totaled 81 RBIs in 148 games last year.
MLB.com's Jason Beck confirmed the option will be declined, but added no deal with Peralta is imminent.
Here's a look back at Peralta's 2010 season, and much discussion whether it is wise to bring him back next year. The consensus I get: Some would not like to see Peralta at all, but most who would accept him back in 2011 would prefer it be a one-year deal.
One issue we haven't talked about much: A groundball/contact pitcher like Rick Porcello needs a strong defense in the infield to find the most success. Having a poor fielder at the infield's most important defensive position will likely cost Porcello. Hopefully Will Rhymes will end up playing second to help shore up the right side of the diamond, which already has an average-to-below-average fielder at first.
As I wrote in the piece, I have many reservations about whether a full season of Peralta will end as a positive experience for the Tigers, as I view him as a lighter version of Edgar Renteria based on his career-to-date. You might remember how disliked Renteria was by the end of his time in Detroit. Needless to say, I dislike a two-year deal.
(Via MLB Trade Rumors)
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There probably is
But who knows how much that would cost in prospects. If this is a deal that’s less than 5 million per year, I’m ok with it. (this is acknowledging that Jhonny isn’t very good at all)
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Need to save our prospects for a SP trade
If any trade is going to be made this offseason, it will be for a #3 starter
Two year deal for Inge and now Peralta is too risky for a 250 hitter
Two things I do not like the deal is, if it does not work out next year, guess what, we will have to suffer through 2012 as well. Secondly, Worth will be playing AAA for two years instead of one. Tigers have to quit putting a stop to the pipeline to the minors but signing average players.
I'm not sure why we would be interested in playing Worth
He seems like the kind of guy that you want on your AAA team, not your MLB team. He’s a replacement level hitter that didn’t show (in an admittedly small sample) that he can play above average defense at short. You feel fine if you must bring him up and insert him into the lineup, but you don’t want to count on him by any means.
MotorCityBengals.com
I'm not crazy about Worth either
I know what we’ll get from Peralta. He’s a true everyday player. With him at SS, we only need one SS on the 40 man roster. Peralta might be a little slow compared to other Shortstops, but he knows how to play the position well and he never gets hurt. We really need his bat too. His bat adds some power and run production to our rather weak line-up.
+1
Tigers formula of success is developing young players and then add your stars
I not saying to play Worth this year but he might be an option in 2012. I will take Peralta this year but two years becomes risky with Inge getting a two year contract. I think the Tigers will have to put Worth on the 40 man roster in 2012 or he can walk.
What young players have the Tigers developed under DD? What stars have they added for 2011?
Let’s see. Verlander, Porcello, Granderson…..
Can’t think of any more that are at least major league average at their positions.
Even give him Inge, who was drafted before DD arrived.
Worth can’t walk, but he’d have to clear waivers to be sent down, and I would not bet on him clearing.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
DD doesn't do scouting
DD always takes the shortcut, that his problem, he puts 110% faith in his scouting personnel and he flys with it. I saying don’t block the young guys. Look at Fryman, he had a career minor league average of 254, averaging 10 HRs and made 30 errors a season. Where exactly is C Ross right now?
Fryman was also 20-21 at the time
And was playing in AA and AAA respectively. I’d say that’s a special case, and probably a guy you would make room for these days.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Conversely
Verlander and Scherzer don’t require a good defensive infield. Peralta is nobody’s dream signing. Like Inge, however, he’s a known quantity who is going to give you above replacement-level production. With the biggest names available via free agency being Juan Uribe and Orlando Cabrera, and the internal options being Santiago and Worth, it’s hard to find a better realistic option. The Tigers seem to have identified OF/DH and SP as the positions they will try to improve this offseason, and I think that is the correct answer. Assuming that a Peralta deal would be a prerequisite to spending money to bring in upper echelon players in those positions, I would support a $2/10 deal.
So 40% of the rotation can strike out batters consistently?
The rest of the staff need help from the defense, both infield and out. That’s a big key to what made the 2006 team so strong, and another key to what cost 2008’s team.
Up the middle, you want strong defenders first and foremost. The other positions, you can sacrifice defense for hitting.
In the case of Peralta, he is not an .800 OPS shortstop. He is sitll a weak hitter in the grand scheme. You are better off playing a true shortstop who hits worse.
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 27, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Adam Everett
Runs scored and prevented have the same value. Peralta wasn’t an .800 OPS guy. He was, however, a .700 OPS guy with a BABIP about .040 below his career average. Going forward, probably a meh-to-decent .260/.325./395. I just can’t figure out what option is better than Peralta. You’d rather Santiago/Worth? Or you have another name in mind?
agree
Offer one year @4-5 mill option for 2nd year,then next year you know where to go…Worth…Dlugach..Free agency
If we don't give him 2 years, he'd just sign somewhere else
He’s the best available SS in the market and we got 1st dibs at landing him.
+1
Pretty much
When the best FA options for SS are Juan Uribe and a washed up Orlando Cabrera, you know things are dire.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Uribe hit 24 HR, knocked in 85 and posted a higher OPS than Inge or Peralta
Uribe’s also higher rated defensively at SS than Peralta.
And Uribe’s much better than Inge defensively at 3B.
Uribe’s UZR/150 for 3B in 2010 was 20.1 vs 3.5 for Inge.
Uribe’s RngR was +3.2 vs -3.8 for Inge.
Uribe’s also a plus defensive 2B.
And Uribe’s playing in his 2nd World Series in 5 years….
by downinthezone on Oct 28, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Tigers are in a tough spot
Third base was no meat-market, but the FA market for SS is like a wasteland.
As for SS, the options are tougher to come by and more risky. Uribe offers some comparable power numbers to Peralta but a significantly better defensive skill set. This year Uribe had a 1 yr, $3.25 mil deal which has been a bargain for San Fran. I’m betting after an increase in UZR and an above career average OBP and HR totals yet a dip in BA, he’ll land another 1 to 2 year deal worth between 4.25 and 5.75 mil per year, depending on length. He’s also 2 to 3 years older than Peralta.
Another option to compare to would be J.J. Hardy. He had a tough 2010 due to a wrist injury. Hardy is nothing but stellar defensively and would have likely lead the MLB for shortstops in UZR if not for the injury. His 2010 offensive stats aren’t spectacular either: .268/.320/.714. If the Twins offer him arbitration, I could see Hardy making roughly $7 mil. This certainly supports the Tigers’ decision to decline Peralta’s option. I’m sure if Peralta signs for anything north of $5 mil this contract will be used by Hardy to negotiate a higher value.
After these two, O-Cab seems next followed by a group of replacement players (Izturis, Hairston, Counsell, etc.)
Bottom Line: The Tigers didn’t have an internal prospect ready to take the job at either third or short, therefore they were stuck with status quo. If this deal stays near 2 yr, $9 mil I’ll be okay with it.
What's the big deal
I like Peralta and no one in the league is better for $5.5 mil per. Porcello sucks and needs to be trade bait. Lets go after Carl Crawford, resign Mag. and make a trade for Zack Grienke and we will be World Series bound. FYI Grienke for Porcello, Boesch, and Worth.
Pass. Grienke sucked this year too
Porcello is just 21 years old. He’s light years ahead of most pitchers his age.
+1
Guthrie + Luke Scott, Garza + Bartlett or Zobrist, Greinke + DeJesus, Josh Johnson or Nolasco + Cody Ross (no, wait)
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Oh, goodness, a down year!
His career is OVER~!
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Actually, 2009 was arguably the outlier in his career
Career ERA is 3.82, WHIP 1.26, K/BB= 3.33
If it takes Porcello and Turner, I’ll pass.
Turner and another prospect not on the roster, I’ll do it
Porcello, even up- I’d hesitate, but have to do it
For the cost, though, I’d go after Guthrie, Garza, or the Marlins studs
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Arguably.
The cost of dealing with the Rays and Marlins is usually high. The cost of dealing with the Royals is rather unpredictable.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Matt Joyce for Edwin Jackson
Six prospects for Cabrera and Willis
I’d pay those prices all over again in both cases
I’ll give them another “pick six” deal for Hanley and either Josh Johnson or Ricky Nolasco.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
That's the gamble with prospects.
Joyce for Edwin becomes better because Edwin was flipped for Max, but on its own I’d call it a small plus for Detroit. I can’t fault the Marlins for their prospect haul.
Moore traded for Yuni, actually traded baseball players for Yuni. That trumps either of those two.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
I Agree
100% Get rid of Porcello & I like your trade names. Go For It.
by TigersFan1957 on Oct 29, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess we can nix that Fanpost now! :)
I was not at all pleased with the acquisition of Jhonny, but I’m okay with giving him a year.
He does have a lot to prove on the field. He has always been a sub par defender at shortstop, but he used to make up for that at the plate. But in 2009 and 2010 in Cleveland, he didn’t even do that. He still put up below average numbers, even for a shortstop, both offensively and defensively in 2010 overall.
No question that, when Peralta was traded to the Tigers, he got a new lease on life, and he became the Jhonny Be Good that Cleveland had in the 2008 season and prior. He doesn’t kill you in the field, and he has a knack for driving in runs. He won’t be a hole in the lineup that Adam Everett was for a season and a half. The Tigers are betting several million bucks that he’ll be the player that he was for the past two months, not the bum he was for the past two seasons.
I would keep him to a one year deal, with an option if necessary. He obviously needs the motivation of playing for a contract.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
He didn't put up below average offensive #s for a SS in 2010, though
His 94 OPS+ would’ve tied him for 11th among MLB SS (and two of the guys in the top 15 play for Cleveland, so good on them I guess).
Once more, Jhonny is not good, but the SS alternatives are crappy too (and possibly costly) and Detroit has much more important holes to fill already.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess that depends what you look at.
Fangraphs has Peralta as a minus 5.8 vs the league average SS offensively, and minus 3.6 defensively. OPS is still a bit slanted toward the slugger somewhat, but even then, he was under .700 in both 2009 and 2010 with Cleveland.
This is still all about the Tigers betting that Jhonny will be the player that he was in 2008 and prior, rather than the player he was for 09- 10 in Cleveland. Otherwise, they’re better off going with Santiago and Worth.
I’m still waiting for DD to add Cale Iorg to the 40 man roster, which he’ll do next month.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Seems like that would be just a tad bit skewed
Since he played 100 games at 3rd for the Indians last year.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but it's all we've got to go on.
There’s no getting around a .311 OBP, or a SLG under .700
He turned into a bum the past two seasons in Cleveland, and that’s why they could find no takers for him. Couldn’t even get a C level minor leaguer, and had to pay the Tigers his full salary just to get rid of him. This is still all about betting several million bucks that he’ll get back to his old self with a change of scenery. I’d rather bet one year than two on that proposition.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Yes, those offensive stats are awful
But I cannot stress enough how low the standards are for the SS position, especially in the AL. (he would’ve had the 3rd highest OPS+ in the AL for SS this year, seriously)
The reasons Cleveland was so quick to jettison him are simple, they already had 2 SS in house that were as good or better than Peralta, and he was going to cost too much (and they were going to decline his option at the end of the year anyway). Not to mention he was putting up those awful stats while playing 3rd the entire time for Cleveland, which is unacceptable for the position.
You know where it’s a lot more palatable? Shortstop.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
There isn't much at 3B either, if you look around the league
ARoid, Longoria, Youkilis, I guess Young, and everybody else struggles at that position. (Wow, what do all those teams have in common?)
The Tigers are destined to have a sub par 3B man.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
And the Twins get Danny Valencia
Boo. Hopefully he returns to Earth.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought about him before posting, but he's still an unknown quantity
He’s strong enough that they weren’t a threat to steal Inge from us! :=)
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Love This Move.
Guy can Play SS or 3B and can also DH. Good Player.
by BennieBladesFan on Oct 27, 2010 11:13 AM EDT reply actions
None of the above. He's below average at all three positions.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
2 years...front load it?
If he’s going to sign for 2 years, I’d like to see the contract front-loaded (although this hardly ever happens)…Maybe 6/4 or 7/3. That way, he’s a pretty attractive trade for other teams if we decide to move in another direction toward the end of 2011 or between 2011 and 2012.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
+1
I like the thinking, Momo. The money is there to spend now, and it’s doubtful we’d spend all the $$ coming off the books this year anyway. No Cliff Lee, Maggs takes a pay cut, and even if Crawford and VMart come we’d still probably end up with a small fortune left over. Front load the package to make Peralta expendable in a year if you feel Worth is ready to contribute. Who knows what injuries and question marks will come in time.
by InJimWeTrust on Oct 27, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Only problem there is if the Tigers want to move in another direction after just a year,
other GM’s will be moving in another direction just as fast as they were when Cleveland came calling last summer.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
But he could be a 1 year player for 3-4M
That’s a different situation than the Tigers / Idnians were in this year. The tribe traded a player that was set to be a free agent or make 7M. The Tigers would be trading a player with a major league proven bat, that can play 3B, a little SS, and DH, for 3-4M per season. If I’m a team looking for a cheap, reliable starter or even bench depth, this is a pretty good option.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
We had 2 choices
We either pick up his option year for $7 million
or we give him 2 years for about $11 million.
+1
My Guess
At the logic of these two signing is that DD wants to establish a baseline payroll as quickly as possible so he has a good idea of how much money he has to throw at FAs or absorb in trades. Peralta and Inge give the Tigers the flexibility to go out in the market and not have a specific position they desperately need to fill, allowing them to be involved with basically any player available. At the same time neither of these players is especially expensive so they are not locked in if a better option becomes available.
by rif23 on Oct 27, 2010 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Somewhere around 5 million per year (even if it’s for two years) isn’t nearly the albatross that something like Carlos Guillen’s deal is/was. And that’s assuming that Peralta is abysmal.
Signing Peralta won’t prevent the Tigers from going in a different direction if a nice opportunity arises or he plays poorly.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. I guess DD could do worse.
I mean, he could sign Renteria, or even trade a good young pitcher for him
Or he could sign Guillen for $ 48 million
Or he could sign Everett, and then extend him
Or he could tell us that Cale Iorg is the second coming, and put him on the roster
Or he could trade Omar Infante for Jacques Jones
But seriously, this isn’t the end of the world. There weren’t a whole lot of options out there to begin with. I’m glad that DD sees that Jhonny ain’t worth $ 7 million, and they expect him to work on his range. This is just something that has to be done, so they can move on to bigger issues.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
That's all I'm trying to say man
I’m glad we agree.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The Team
I feel like we are gonna just have the same team as last year, and worse if we don’t resign Magglio. I thought this was supposed to be the year we drastically improved, but its just not looking like it.
The World Series isn't even started yet
How about we wait for Free Agency to open before we get all doom and gloom about the lack of roster moves?
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I Agree
I know its a little early to start complaining, I’m just frustrated from the lack of hitting last year and I dont want to see it happen next season. Hope they come up with a big free agent signing.
Honestly
I’d worry a lot more about the pitching staff next year. They’ve really got to do something to get it squared away.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I worry about run prevention
and no pitcher can do that by himself. I’m not as worried about run scoring myself. They do need to upgrade there a bit. But they can’t be a softball team again.
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 27, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
But where can the Tigers get solid run prevention?
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
I'm concerned about the combined impact of lower OBP in the 1, 2, and 3 slots
AJax because of a natural drop in his world record setting BABIP
the 2 slot where the Tigers were second in the league, led by Damon
Magglio’s .378 in the 3 slot
Merely replacing Maggs and Damon with one No. 5 bat doesn’t cut it. It’s a net downgrade, and the team was 8th in run production last year overall. I’d give you two Dunns for one Crawford.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
There's always Figgins.
The M’s are probably willing to listen to trade offers and, while his contract and age are scary, I think that a trade with the Mariners is within the realm of possibilities. Figgins can go back to being a lead off man and could possibly go back to being the utility man he was early on in Anaheim.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
That was my plan for 3B, but DD never listens to me!
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Just throwing this out their, but
What about an in-house fix for SS? Why not put in Rhymes/Sizemore at 2B/SS or . . . give Ramon Santiago a shot at starting? I really don’t want to see Peralta’s defense for a full year as I’ve seen him bucher some easy plays when he was in Cleveland.
Member of the Will Rymes fanclub.
Ramon wears down.
That’s why he has never been handed the starting job.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
the dirty secret behind the Peralta signing
He’s able to play shortstop and 3B and should Inge falter even a bit
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/are-the-tigers-content-with-inge-at-third/
Or another Tiger steps up and takes over shortstop..
Peralta takes over 3B, where his weak glove is less of a concern and he can focus on hitting (Peralta’s OPS when he played 3B was 50 points higher than when he played short in 2010).
Peralta + Inge = $10 mil a season, platoon them at 3B
Inge posted a .787 OPS @ Comerica in 2010, but only a .648 OPS on the road in 2010.
Peralta posted a road OPS of .777 in 2010 (approx for Tigers, that’s his overall for away OPS in 2010).
However, Peralta posted a .589 OPS at Comerica Park in 2010, .644 career OPS @ Comerica.
Inge has better defensive numbers at Home than on the Road. Peralta might be the opposite (Peralta’s better defensively away from Comerica) but not enough data there.
Tigers were 52 -29 @ Home in 2010, 29-52 Away.
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