Report: Tigers are "deeply interested" in Carl Crawford
by allikazoo on Oct 27, 2010 1:22 PM EDT
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This has been floating around the internet the last few hours so we figured we should link it. Ken Rosenthal blogged about the Tigers making a run for Crawford this winter:
Crawford, in fact, might make a greater impact for the Tigers than he would for any other club.
Defensively, the Tigers would benefit greatly by pairing Crawford in left field with Austin Jackson in center. The two would cover an enormous amount of ground, providing an edge at spacious Comerica Park.
MLBTR also linked to Rosenthal's story, and they have a pretty comprehensive post on potential Crawford suitors from a couple months ago you may want to take a look at.
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Well that was unexpected
Didn’t DD say he wasn’t going to persue Crawford? Well at least I’ll have a fresh topic to discuss in the sports management class.
I really like
the way the Tigers have handled this offseason so far. DD usually manages to stay under the radar with deals until they are announced, thereby limiting media coverage that can complicate negotiations. DD knows that it will be impossible to keep his pursuit of any big-name FAs underwraps this offseason, so he has methodically managed to link the Tigers to just about every FA out there. At this point we are linked to everyone, so no-one outside of the organization has a real idea of what we are going to do.
Nice call
That provides the organization with multiple fallbacks, and it can alleviate fan reactions.
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Free Scott Sizemore!
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
More often than not, Agents are the source of "leaks" or rumors regarding any potential signings
Of course, it’s early for agents to get busy, because a GM can not express any real interest until after the World Series is over, but it’s in the player’s interest and the agent’s interest to create a market and create interest in their clients. We haven’t yet seen a flat denial from DD, though.
Like the SS and 3B positions, there are very, very few outfielders available on the free agent market this winter, so it’s only logical that DD would at least kick the tires on the few that are out there. Hopefully, Rosenthal’s source is Morosi, who is pretty good on Tiger stuff.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Ya, like the way DD holds the cards and hope Crawford is just the smoke of Agents
A long term deal for a speedster might be disaster down the road at say 35. At Comerica 19hrs would be 10. With JL 70 steals would be 30. The guy wants to be in the middle of the order. Outfield play would get a boost for sure, but 20-25 million dollars more a year than the cost of Casper Wells who has 25-30 HR power, plays great def, and is expendible if he doesn’t perform/gets hurt? Baseball economics ingeneral are whacked, a salary cap would make make the sport more enjoyable for me. Would rather have a Power hitter if they can only afford one.
Totally disagree with your Math Tigerdog, you start with 75 not 72, omit 29 million loss, 13 deferred 2011, 11 deferred 2012, 10 million raises, 5.5 for Inge, and the other 10 or so players to be signed including Peralta. Plus they are likely buying the Pistons, with a lockout looming. The 53 million committed to start is still more than all but a handful of teams. Did you see San Diego’s 1 million and TB’s 11 million of commitment so far, for 2011. Imagine a bidding war with them.
"Always 1984"
by Hack Johnson on Oct 27, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The Tigers certainly SHOULD make a run at Crawford
He’s the top position player available on the free agent market, or any other market. The Tigers have $ 75 million coming off the books, only one salary increase- to Verlander, nothing to worry about with arbitration increases, and a massive hole or two immediately ahead of their best hitter, who just led the world in RBI.
I don’t expect the Tigers to go hog wild and give out another $ 150 million contract, but they’re presently giving $ 18 million to Ordonez, $ 8 million to Damon, $ 13 million to Guillen who’s gone after one more year, and $ 34 million to three starting pitchers that are leaving or gone. The money is there. All that’s needed is the desire and willingness to spent it.
CC’s cost will hardly go over $ 20 million unless the Yankers jump into the fray, but I don’t think they will. No player outside of New York has an annual salary above Miggy’s $ 20 million, and the Tigers won’t be going there. Crawford will get in the 15- 20 million range, probably closer to the high end, and between five and eight years, probably six or seven. The Tigers CAN do that.
Crawford solves a lot of problems in the Tiger lineup. He’s one of the top offensive players in the league, a legit SB threat which they lack, the best defensive LF in the game, and he kills RHP’s from the left side of the dish. He could bat lead off, could bat second with Miggy either third or fourth, or he could bat third. The Tigers need an OF and a DH, and there are really only two free agent OF’ers worth looking at- Crawford and Werth.
The Yanks CAN buy any player they want, but they have $ 145 million committed before they try to extend Jeter and Mariano, and then they still need a dozen players to fill out their roster, but the outfield is set. When you add in Jeter, Mariano, Pettite, and their arbitration cases, the payroll is back up around $ 200 million, and they haven’t even started to go after Cliff Lee or any other upgrades they’d like to make. When you figure that they’ll pay a dollar for dollar luxury tax on any additional salaries, then $ 25 mil becomes $ 50 mil, and I don’t see them doing that for the marginal difference between Crawford and Granderson, Swisher, or Garnder.
The Angels have $ 92 million committed to payroll, they have TEN players eligible for arbitration, and they have maybe one hole in the outfield. They could move Abreu to DH if they land Crawford, and let Matsui go. They have Juan Rivera, Torii Hunter, and some young guys in the outfield. The Angels offense needs a boost. They’ll be players in the CC derby, but they have some shifting to do. They could just as easily go after Werth.
Boston has $ 100 million committed with five or so arbitration cases, depending how many they offer. They have an outfield of JD Drew, Ellsbury, Ryan Kalish, and Mike Cameron. Big Papi has a $ 12.5 million option. If they pick that up, it’s far less likely that they go after Crawford. Unlike the Tigers or Angels, Boston’s offense wasn’t lacking last season. They were second to NYY in runs scored, while their pitching was ninth in team ERA.
The Dodgers could be a player, using Manny’s money to buy Crawford, and they’d have a helluva outfield with Ethier, Kemp and Crawford, but everything is up in the air with their ownership.
The Padres have almost no salary commitments, but they’re cheap as can be. The Gnats like to run at top free agents, but they haven’t landed one yet. If the Yankers do go for CC, the Tigers are out, but if not, the Tigers make the most sense to me.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
by Tigerdog1 on Oct 27, 2010 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
We have to remember...
The Tigers do have some deferred $$ on the books… so, it’s not exactly 75 mil (altho, still a lot). I think the Tigers owe Sheff $$ for a few more years, in addition to a few other players…
It looks like 13 million is owed next year in deferred $$
So, there is the $$, but they most likely want to get the most bang for buck.
$ 75.1 million comes off the books in expiring contracts
That’s based on money paid out in 2010 that won’t be paid out in 2011
-Some of Sheffield’s money is deferred, so it has to be paid, but that doesn’t change the $ 75 million coming off
-The ONLY salary increase of any consequence is Verlander’s $ 6 million raise
-Unlike the Angels and Twinkies, who have ten guys apiece in arbitration, the Tigers have only four. Two of them (Zoomer and Miner) spent the season on the DL, and two others (Raburn and Galarraga) are first time eligible and spent some time in the minors. Their increases won’t be more than $ 3 million total.
- Deferred money is in the $ 11 million range, but $ 3 million of Guillen’s 2011 salary is also deferred, so it’s a net of $ 8 million
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Crawford good but Lee is better
Tigers were near the bottom when it came to pitching and yes Tigers do need another bat badly. With crawford in LF they can move Raburn DH. This almost perfect.
The Yankers will buy Cliff Lee if he leaves Texas
If you can’t beat em, BUY em!
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
The Tigers aren't lacking in top of the rotation talent
Let’s not forget that for the first half of the season, the rotation was in complete disarray with Scherzer and Porcello both seeing the minor leagues which probably contributed to an inflation in rotation stats. In the second half, Scherzer was one of the greatest pitchers in the AL and Porcello improved. I expect both to continue on those trends next year.
With Verlander already an unquestionable ace, and Scherzer and Porcello to follow, the Tigers need a mid-level reliever, not an ace like Lee. However, aside from Cabrera, who was our go-to offensive talent in the second half? Don’t get me wrong, I love Lee, but he is only driving up his price tag further this offseason and with the Yankees postseason rotation meltdown you can bet they will be aggressive bidders.
There is a difference between Porcello and Verlander or Max
Having another ace will prolong win streaks. Tigers also have to fix their bullpen too. They also need a bat that can hopefully play the field instead of being a DH. I would still pick Lee over Crawford if possible. Reports are Crawford will get at least 20 million a year. Having three aces is mighty if they reach the playoff. Porcello is a #4 guy or even #5 guy.
Lee is better but . .
Lee is older and will command a much much bigger price. Lee is going to upwards of $140-150 M, whereas Crawford will be in the $100-120. Plus, we need Crawford more, IMO, and won’t have to bid against the Yankees for him.
Please DD, make this happen.
Yankees....
will be in the running for Crawford as well.
Like I said above...
The Yanks CAN buy any player they want, but they have $ 145 million committed before they try to extend Jeter, Pettite, and Mariano, and then they still need a dozen players to fill out their roster, but the outfield is set with Granderson, Swisher, and Gardner. When you add in Jeter, Mariano, Pettite, and their arbitration cases, the payroll is back up around $ 200 million, and they haven’t even started to go after Cliff Lee or any other upgrades they’d like to make. When you figure that they’ll pay a dollar for dollar luxury tax on any additional salaries, then $ 25 mil becomes $ 50 mil, and I don’t see them doing that for the marginal difference between Crawford and Granderson, Swisher, or Garnder.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Is Carl Crawford a Type-A Free Agent?
Would the Tigers lose their 1st Rounder for signing him?
Neither do I
I think he and Lee are the only players that are worth losing a 1st rounder for
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I think Crawford is the perfect signing.
I like the idea of Crawford much more than Werth, Dunn, or Vmart. He has a much better chance of living up to his deal than those 3 previously mentioned. His “young man skills” usually last much longer to an older age.
Crawford would slot perfectly into the #3 hole infront of Miggy, and then the Tigers could look for a mid-priced DH like Maggs, or Berkman to bat 5th.
A middle of the order of Crawford-Miggy-Berkman would look great next year.
this would look great to me...
1. Jackson CF
2. Sizemore/Rhymes 2B
3. Crawford LF
4. Miggy 1B
5. Maggs or Berkman DH
6. Raburn RF
7. Peralta SS
8. Avila C
9. Inge 3B
I like it, but skip Berk, give me Maggs in RF and let Raburn DH
I’d rather have Maggs than Raburn in the OF. Maggs is much more reliable with the glove. I think Raburn could be a good DH if given regular AB’s…if not, you can always find a DH in the organization somewhere (Boesch and Wells could even be candidates.)
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
Crawford...
I like the idea at first glance obviously…but there are a few concerns. The man will be 30 years old, and played all those years on astro turf. I just have a bad feeling he is going to “age” quickly.
well usually...
speedy type players like Crawford age much much better than high strikeout sluggers like Dunn… This Kenny Lofton…
Huh???
Not sure anyone would quite agree with that. The first thing to go is speed.
not really
the speed does go away, but the players usefulness doesnt… usually those type of players add more power and patience as their speed diminishes…
I will try and find an article on old man vs. young man skill type players…
Kenny Lofton took a lot of walks
His career OBP is about 40 points higher than Crawford’s. That’s my main issue with crawford, his OBP isn’t that impressive for a guy that’s supposed to get on base and wreak havoc.
The guy certainly isn’t Juan Pierre, but he’s definitely not Rickey Henderson (or even Tim Raines). I just don’t know if he’s going to be worth a contract in excess of 100 million dollars.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
here are a few links to some articles...
the best research was by JC Bradbury, but i cant find a non-pay site article by him.
http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2010/06/war_aging_curve.php
Some 33 year old led the league in steals this season
Crawford won’t be 33 for another four years
as if Leyland would let him steal anyway!
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
You mean like Jim Thome? :)
You don’t have to find an article. Crawford is a great, great player. I just don’t want another declining, aging, overpaid player in 2016.
well there are always exceptions..
Thome is one of the best home run hitters EVER… so sure his skills wont fade away fast… but usually players of his skill-set age much faster than speedy/high average type players…
Depends on the price..
but I would rather the Tigers make a push and try to steal Colby Rasmus from the Cardinals. He’s a great young, cheap player that’s currently in the doghouse. Rasmus will be a stud.
by vandamage on Oct 27, 2010 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Cards will ask for an entire farm system for Rasmus
… of course, that’s assuming they’re even willing to part ways with him.
by Let's do this! on Oct 27, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I would of loved to have Crawford before this year
For many years he was one of the better values in the game, but now he’ll be one of the grossest overpaid players.
IMO, he’s not worth $15 – $20 million per year. He’s not a great OBP guy. He’s not a great power hitter. If his speed fades, then his value goes down pretty quick.
+1
meh
when he’s inked, I’ll believe it.
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someone has to be a realist around here :)
President & Founder of the "Bring back the Big Tilde in 2k11" Campaign
Um, no...it's the off-season
To hell with realism.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
Smoke and Mirrors...
Maybe. But it sure would look good having Crawford batting in front of Miguel. I honestly don’t think it will happen. I still think there is a better chance of Dunn ending up as a Tiger. I also want to hear something positive about DD going after Kuroda. The Yankees may be willing to dump Vasquez for a song. He may be a cheap option. He seems to pitch a heck of a lot better when he’s not in Pinstripes.
Vazquez is outta there. He's a free agent and he won't be offered arbitration.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Naah
He seems a heck of a lot better when he’s in the NL. Sorry, just not a fan of his and I never have been.
by Let's do this! on Oct 27, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard the Tigers are writing Carl's name on their notebook.
DET + CC = 4EVER
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
that's left over from the Sabathia era
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 27, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I commented something similar to this earlier this year
If the Tigers do indeed go after, and acquire, Carl Crawford that would open the doors to an almost unlimited amount of possibilities to throw into RF. What we would do there is allow for Jackson to play more right-center vs. straight center to cover for, say, an Adam Dunn or Maggs type in RF. This would also give us a perfect No. 2 hitter right behind Jackson. Between Jackson and Crawford, there is bound to always be someone one base for Cabby — even if he does bat 4th.
whoa, whoa, whoa
Adam Dunn CAN NOT play RF. He can barely play 1st base. He would be stricly DH/part time LF if the Tigers signed him to a multiple year deal.
He won't admit it to himself though.
Dunn in the field takes a few years off my life.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
the Cubbies want him for first base
and he’ll probably go there, hit a ton of homers, and retire with bags of money, and without a ring
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
That's a franchise that could use a complete front office purge.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
And the Mets as well. Alderson will be cleaning house over there.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Woah, woah, woah
Easy there peeps. It was merely an example. I REALLY highly doubt anyone in the Tigers organization would be dumb enough to put Dunn out in RF regardless of who else was there. I was just trying to make a point of saying we could get a bigger hitter with perhaps their best defensive days behind them.
by Let's do this! on Oct 27, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the idea of having a speedster in the lineup
It’s been frustrating to me that the one piece we actually had when we were terrible has been somewhat elusive. I wish base stealing was more a part of our game. Less squandering, more threatening.
I'd prefer spending the money on power or pitching
But I wouldn’t mind Crawford for the right price.
Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore!
why do we have to choose between a competent offense and competent pitching
8th in runs scored
12th in team ERA
a .500 record in a weak division
$ 75 million in expiring contracts
Is it that hard to see that the Tigers need upgrades all over the place?
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Again
Power (as in homers) or pitching (as in starters).
Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore!
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Cliff Lee... ;)
Oh how I tease.
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by DetroitTigersGeek on Oct 27, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I'm being greedy
I just don’t understand why they don’t spend nearly all of the money coming off the books. I dont want to hear a comment about the economy or how they can’t justify the payroll etc…
Mike Illitch is rich with or without the pistons and has a great desire to win (supposedly). There was almost 3 million fans last season and I’m guessing that more fans will go to the games if they sign some big names.
Just my opinion but why not sign Crawford, Dunn, a decent back-end starter and a solid late inning reliever?
I’m more than happy with standing pat with Inge and Peralta IF they spend some cash on a few names to let us compete for a pennant!
by JAYRC on Oct 27, 2010 8:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
think of the Pistons
don’t blow it all at once if you’re not getting properly priced players for it or you may live to regret it.
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 27, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That comparison would only be valid
If DD went out and signed a 1B to come off the bench for a 12 million dollar a year contract or something.
The Pistons roster construction is just a whole other level of ridiculous.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 27, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And a power forward with no eyebrows that is to feeble rebound and score.
by JAYRC on Oct 27, 2010 11:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't do this to me... Stop the teasing... Just STOP IT!
/sob
it’s never going to happen…
/sobs again
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by DetroitTigersGeek on Oct 27, 2010 9:26 PM EDT reply actions
Having Crawford would help quite a bit . . .
. . . but I wonder about the plan overall with him. Going after a big free agent like Crawford for a long term deal would tie up a ton of payroll for a long time in three players (Cabby, Verlander, Crawford). While these three players would obviously be a good foundation, I wonder how we could possibly retain Scherzer, Porcello, and Jackson once they come off their current contracts.
Adding Crawford would tie up $55-$60 mil (hat tip: Cot’s Contracts) through at least 2014, which likely represents about half, if not more of the overall payroll (I’m guessing the Tigers will take this opportunity to reduce costs a bit). It just seems like a lot wrapped up in just three players, to me.
Besides all of that, Crawford slots really well into the 2-hole – where he has played almost the entirety of his career – and doesn’t really add that pop to the five hole to protect Cabrera like we need. What’s the option at that point? Berkman sounds good, but I’m not completely sure what he’d cost. I like the Tigers’ chances for next year much better if they can sign Maggs for the 3-spot and Berkman for the 5, but then what is the plan for the long term? I’m not fully convinced they’ve got those kinds of guys ready to reload in the next couple of years.
Overall, I’m very confused about what the plan is either way. The Tigers are in an interesting spot, and we’ve seen before how handing out big contracts can handcuff a team. Best/worse case scenario, the guys we believe will be stars in 3-4 years when club control runs out will live up to expectations, and we’ll have to make a decision who we’re going to keep.
by TennesseeYooper on Oct 27, 2010 10:54 PM EDT reply actions
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