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Around SBN: Seahawks Trade for TE Kellen Winslow

On What I'm Betting

by  Stephen Grosberg-----

Will Rhymes will become a part of a Championship Team like the Yankees of old like Billy Martin, Tony Kubek, Bobby Richardson, who won games with timely hits, but with much better #’s.

The Tigers will find a starter or at least an innings eater 3.4 ERA from Adam Wilk, L. J. Gagnier, Thad Weber, Alfredo Figaro, Andy Oliver, Brayan Villarreal, and Charlie Furbush.

Lakeland and below has great pitching talent for Erie sometime this year like Cole Nelson, Alex Burgos, Chance Ruffin, and obviously Jacob Turner.

The IF should be Inge, Peralta, Rhymes, Worth, Sizemore, and Cabrera. The OF + DH should be Raburn, Jackson, Wells, Boesch, Andy Dirks. The replacements for any DL should be 100% Ryan Strieby, Rawley Bishop, Billy Nowlin, and Brandon Douglas.

The Tigers will have a choice with Phil Coke because Dan Schlereth will continue a performance like his last 4 games, Robbie Weinhardt will improve his slider to give the Tigers a big 4, namely Perry, Schlereth, Weinhardt, and Valverde. The starters mentioned above will surprise a lot of people in relief.

Ryan Raburn will develop big time as they start him every day.

Brennan Boesch will swing at the first 3 pitches if they’re close and stop listening to advice to work the count. The genes are there to perform.

Akex Avila will perform better and better as he plays most days with Max St. Pierre to back him up as Bryan Holaday and Rob Brantly develop.

If Danny Worth doen’t perform, I’m betting he will, the Tigers will pick as #1 a SS who can field first and then hit like Will Rhymes. Rhymes might even be the SS if he felt HE could do it. I love the way he plays so far. By the way, his #’s almost matched Jackson’s if you adjusted for a full season. His BB vs. K was FAR better.

The Tigers will realize that the game is to get to Erie by the end of the second Season, but no later than the third season, high school or not. Fillers at Toledo, unless they can be with the Tigers are out, because Toledo and Erie will get to the playoffs with the type of players that I’ve mentioned in this post + the good stats players at Lakeland and below. The list includes Danny Fields, Cole Nelson, Matt Little, Corey Jones, Wade Gaynor, Trevor Feeney, Jared Wesson, Zach Samuels, Kenny Faulk, Shawn Teufel, Jeff Rowland, P. J. Polk, Pat Cooper, Kevan Hess, Nick Castellanos, Steve Crnkovich, Bruce Rondon, Dan Gantzler, Jade Todd, Jack Duffey, Casey Crosby, Alex Burgos, Chance Ruffin.

The key is to make maxim use of AFL, DL, and Spring Training to test them.

Only potential Tigers will be signed.

The Tigers don’t NEED free agents other than a Holliday in 09 to win the pennant by giving up Casey Crosby.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.

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Rhymes

so much about his game reminds me of Polanco.

+1

by linuxit on Oct 8, 2010 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Same here

I really like the guy. Much, much more than Scotty

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by BrianCMU. on Oct 8, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the young Tigers

take a step up in their game, 2011 could be special.

One time while a young lad, someone made fun of the Ditka name. One time.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 8, 2010 4:51 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope your right, and I hope the brass is listening

The Main Advantage with a youth movement IMHO is that if a prospect doesn’t perform they can be sent down, and another one tested out. There is pressure to play the 13 million dollar contract. Tigers can get stuck with a subpar Guillen for years but don’t have to with the 400K Worth, Sizemore or Rhymes. They can be replaced any game. Thats true of the DH, OF, 5th starter, and relief positions as well.

Illitch needs a solvent conservative business approach to arrange the financing to keep the Pistons in Michigan. The Tigers have 73 million coming off the books but lost 29 Million, have 13 million in defered payroll and about 10 million coming in raises. They seem to like backloaded contracts. So really its more like about 20 million to spend, unless some of the loss and defered are double counted. Figure 10-14 Million for Peralta and Inge and the rest will be eaten filling out the roster with cheap guys.

That said they need to sell season tickets, so they have to make a splash somewhere in a trade or free agency. I am hoping a Slugging 30+ hr DH and like Kenerko, Lee, Thome or Vlad with a 1 year contract for less than 5 million.

I Like Casper Wells best for the outfield postion. Great Glove, ARM, Range, 30 hr power and maybe a .260 hitter. Would rather see Casper/Boesh/Strieby in left rather than Maglio, Crawford, or Werth. If a position does not work out, they can trade before Aug 1st.

by Hack Johnson on Oct 9, 2010 11:45 AM EDT reply actions  

Agree, there's no pressure to keep playing a prospect

But who do you send them down for? If you take your guys from Toledo and play them in Detroit, who do you call up? Someone that’s at Toledo that should be at Erie?

The problem with promoting too many young players at once (and still hoping to contend) is that your team is left without organizational depth at too many positions. A combination of injuries or ineffectiveness can cripple a season if there’s no one to replace them.

Very few teams go with a youth movement that depletes their farm system and still contend. Strong youth movements are for teams that aren’t serious contenders to begin with. I hope that’s not the situation with the 2011 Tigers.

Most successful organizations promote one or two players every year or two. I think the Tigers were hoping to do this with 2B in 2011 and corner OF in 2011/2012. I think we’re in a situation to finally start building slowly from within, but you can’t call ‘em all up at once because it robs your depth and doesn’t give you any room to be “wrong” on a couple.

Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.

by momotigers on Oct 9, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andy Dirks is the reserve OF and a potential Tiger in 2011. A 100% Ryan Strieby + Rawley Bishop & Billy Nowlin are the reserve DH. Brandon Douglasis the 2B. A combination Danny Worth, Santiago, Sizemore takes care of IF. Wilk/Weber/L.J.Gagnier/Villarreal/Brown/Oliver/Furbush/Figaro are the pitchers. Matt Little, Shawn Teufel, Drew Gagnier, and Cole Nelson are close or ready for Erie. Zach Simons could be ready for the Tigers. Alex Burgos, Chance Ruffin, and Jacob Turner are the rising stars I’ll provide more as I see more stats. Wade Gaynor and Bryan Holaday could make the jump to Erie. I appreciate all your comments.

by StephenGrosberg on Oct 10, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most of these guys need to prove themselves at Toledo

Dirks tore up Toledo…for 88 AB’s. He’s almost assured a starting spot for the Hens and I think he should have the opportunity to play every day against AAA pitching. There’s no room for him to get regular AB’s in Detroit with Wells, Boesch, Raburn, and Jackson (and I think we’ll add a FA outfielder as well.) If it’s June and he’s still on fire, he may see a call up if we have an ineffective OF or injury.

The same is true for Douglas. If 2b works the way I think it will, Sizemore and Rhymes will both be in Detroit while Douglas gets a steady diet of AAA playing time. I’d be surprised to see Worth, Rhymes, Santiago, and Sizemore all in Detroit unless someone is playing 3B (and I hope that’s not the case.) There’s just not enough roster space to carry that many middle IF sticks.

At SP and RP, I think we need to sign external candidates. Our best in the minors came up this season (Weinhardt, Sborz, Fein, Schlereth…) and didn’t exactly prove themselves major league ready. Weinhardt and Schlereth may be ready to step up in 2011, the the rest of the guys you mentioned are more raw and need the same sort of exposure that Weinhardt and Schlereth got this year…not regular gigs.

Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.

by momotigers on Oct 10, 2010 10:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Assuming Guillen on the DL to start the season and 1 resreve OF, with Ryan Strieby not 100%, my first choice for DH, Andy Dirks makes it with Inge, Peralta, Santiago, Worth, Rhymes, and Cabrera in the IF. Sizemore is first up if anyonr goes DL. The RP are Schlereth, Valverde, Perry, Weinhardt plus possibles from my big 8 from the minors plus Zumaya and Zach Simons plus the possibles from Spring Training. My idea of second string Vets vs Kids as an extra second daily game involving ALL levels from 2010 would be a GREAT innovation.

by StephenGrosberg on Oct 10, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll say it again

If the Tigers go with a kid who’s got a career OPS around .760 in the minors at DH, they’re going to be in very big trouble next year.

Can you come up with some good rationale as to why you’d make these moves? You’re not really going into any detail here. Momo, Tigerdog, and DT have all been making good points, but you seem to be just tuning them out and saying the same thing over and over again.

Kudos for sticking to your guns, but damn.

by ozymandius1024 on Oct 11, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I look at the latest stats available, especially the trending stats like Raburn and Toledo for Andy Dirks. I also look at all levels for Adam Wilk. That marks them as a possible Tiger. Then it’s just a question of testing them wherever possible. For example, the AFL will tell us alot about Chance Ruffin and Brooks Brown. It’s why I favor a secong game in Spring Training wherever possible of the extra Vets vs. the Kids at all levels. In addition to the players I mentioned in this post, you can add Cole Nelson, Matt Little,and Shawn Teufel. I think the Kids will win some games and help to mark potential for the future. Rawley Bishop DOES need work at Toledo. A 100% Strieby would prove out quickly. Danny Worth only needs .270 because he can field with practically anyone. Wade Gaynor should be jumped to Erie quickly if he performs at Lakeland. It only takes 100 AB and 30 innings or less for a pitcher. I spotted Phil Coke in 2008 after 14 innings for the Yankees. The same is true for David Price in the World Series year for the Rays. That year, they had a bigger chance if they had more confidence in the series. I’m prepared for moving too soon like Weinhardt, but I’d do it the same way again because he is close enough. They just have to pitch him in less risky situations, the same way they pitched Figaro at the end. Dan Schlereth was given AAA handling and you all saw the performance in his is last 4 games.

by StephenGrosberg on Oct 11, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Brooks Brown is a 25 year old at AA

Who put up an ERA over 4. The year prior he put up an ERA approaching 5 in AAA, and his peripherals haven’t been impressive. There’s nothing to be told about Brooks Brown, because we know he’s organizational filler.

What does David Price have to do with any of this though? That’s not a visionary prediction to know the #1 prospect in all of baseball at the time would have an impact on a young team in the postseason. Who among the guys you continually keep hyping is even in the same stratosphere as David Price? There’s not one guy in the Tigers farm system right now who is as highly regarded as he was before he came to the big leagues.

Regarding Danny Schlereth, I’ll just re-post something I said in another thread:
“Daniel had a nice end to the year, but what exactly did he do that was out of the ordinary for him?

6.2 IP
5 hits
5 walks
11 Ks

That’s an amazing K rate, but the guy still allows way too many baserunners for a reliever. There’s no problem with getting him consistent opportunities in AAA to see if he can sort it out instead of just giving him work every now and then in the majors."

by ozymandius1024 on Oct 11, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Andy Dirks has a good Spring Training, he would be my extra OF with Raburn, Jackson,Wells, and Boesch. Any extra could be the DH. The potential DH if someone goes DL would come from 100%, not 80% Strieby, Rawley Bishop, and Billy Nowlin. In my opinion Bishop and Nowlin earned Toledo, NOT the Tigers based on their improvement at Erie from VERY slow starts. I mark them and move them based on performance. If I were running things, my batting order would be Jackson, Rhymes, Raburn, Cabrera, Peralta, Wells,,,I’m sorry about repeating myself, but I go by what I see and compare. So far, I’m happy with Raburn, Wells and Dirks as the extra. Boesch has to go back to his successful game that produced. If he likes working the count, it’s up to him, but he was successful swinging at the first 3 pitches if they were close.

by StephenGrosberg on Oct 12, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like the Kids, cause I'm a long term Tiger Fan and what really scares me,

is the prospect of an NBA lockout in 2011-2012. In a worst case scenario, (loss of a year, damaged asset afterwords), I could see a bank consortium pulling the loans the pistons are being acquired with. In a hemoraging cash flow environment we could loose our Hall of Fame ownership in Bankruptcy Court. A bank pullout would sink the Tigers faster than corrupt Enron went from $50 a share to Zero.

by Hack Johnson on Oct 11, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Big leverage is for foolish people, unless the purchase is at bargain prices.

by StephenGrosberg on Oct 11, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

You are incredibly right.

Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys

Free Scott Sizemore!

by David Tokarz on Oct 11, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I could not agree more with momotigers....

Stephen, you continue to hype our AAA and AA players, trying to will them into full time roles with the big league team. Exactly how well did you feel this worked out for us after injuries derailed our season? I am not saying that our minor leagues are filled with trash, but what I am here to say is that these guys must do it consistently in Toledo, to earn the opportunity to play in the Big Show, and then here they must be able to produce consistently. Boesch is an example of a guy with the talent to produce but was unable to maintain this when other teams made adjustments and exposed his weaknesses, which will happen over the course of a season.

Bottom line, think about your proposed starting lineups, with these minor league players, against the likes of the Rays, Rangers, Twins, Yankees, Boston or Chicago – and we will get smoked every day and twice on Sundays. We have the financial means to compete for quality players that already have proven their abilities, instead of hoping these Toledo guys belong. We have MAJOR needs at C, SS, 3B, LF, RP (2), and SP (2); and could use some help at 2B and RF (although Raburn and Rhymes could be answers). If we do decide to go with the likes of Boesch, Inge, Santiago, Peralta, Worth, Sizemore, Dirks, and our minor league fill in stable of pitchers we saw at the end of the season – expect one thing from the Tigers next year – a sub-500 season in third place or worse.

The Chairman of the Steve Yzerman for President fan club.

by Christopher Horvath on Oct 12, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I feel the following earned more playing time based on performance: Rhymes, Raburn, Avila(improvement with more playing time), and Schlereth. Adam Wilk earned it at every level to get a Spring Training shot. Christopher, I appreciate your comments, but I’d rather try my choices in the AFL, Spring Training and Winter Leagues than trade or sign free agents. Obviously, if my guys don’t do it there, I’ll have to reconsider my strategy. So far the Tigers have gained from Rhymes, Wells, and Avila. I know they’ll gain by giving Dirks a shot. We’ll know about the others as they play.

by StephenGrosberg on Oct 12, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey Stephen and David

what do you guys think the ceiling is for 22yr old Seawolf relievers J. Ortega and Lester Oliveras? They seemed to progress quickly this year, jumping levels. Oliveras struck out 36 in 20 some innings, walked a ton, but if he had had control, like at privious stops, it would have been wow. Ortega whip 1.23 at hitter friendly Erie.

Maybe Detroit mid season or Sept. callup?

by Hack Johnson on Oct 11, 2010 2:04 PM EDT reply actions  

If Maglio and Armando are not resigned

a couple more Venezuealen Mafia types could help preserve Cabbera’s good Vibe. Am slightly concerned, because Cabbera has publically said Maglio should come back, and Maglio has Boris and health concern.

by Hack Johnson on Oct 11, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really like Oliveros

The results don’t quite match up to the stuff yet, but the stuff is pretty awesome. Good FB/SL combination, but he needs more seasoning in AA and AAA. Might see him in September.

Ortega has a good FB and an average slider. He’s more fringy right now.

Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys

Free Scott Sizemore!

by David Tokarz on Oct 11, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

My reply to Hack and David is below. I greatly appreciate your question as usual, Hack. It’s interesting that there’s talk of Oliveros “stuff” and Schlereth is questioned. Also, other than a fastball, Wilk has been doing it at every level with little or no recognition.

by StephenGrosberg on Oct 12, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've always liked Oliveros as well

followed him for a few years. A late season call up in ’11 would be nice

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Rod Allen's humor consultant

by BrianCMU. on Oct 13, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d rather go with the following first: Wilk/Weber/Furbush/L.J.Gagnier/Villarreal/OliverFigaro/Simons and Brooks Brown(Based on AFL) first. I’ve gone with Schlereth in spite of BB because of his last 6 games and TALENT. Not yet for Oliveros because of ERA and BB. Ortega could be added to my list based on 3.04, 23.2-22, and 7BB vs 19K. Though it’s a limited sample for both, I like Adam Wilk better 1.14, 23.2-10, and 5BB-14K. In spite of 87 top fast ball he has everything else. I’m only saying that they’ve earned more aggressive testing to earn promotion to a higher level. I hate long term contracts unless forced like Verlander. I’d rather pay more and not be stuck. I never would have signed Damon vs. Wells/Dirks in the first place. I would sign Peralta/Inge however, but push Danny Worth to see.

by StephenGrosberg on Oct 12, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey Thanks Guys

Am looking forward to spring training. Actually looking forward to the world series being over, to see what happens. Hate the Yankees except Derrick Jeter who it was rumored was one of the donors to the Kalamazoo Promise.

by Hack Johnson on Oct 12, 2010 10:27 PM EDT reply actions  

What do you think of my idea to have extra games in Spring Training of Second String Vets vs. the Minor League Kids like Adam Wilk to see more performance? It would be a great chance to see Brandon Douglas, Danny Fields, Billy Nowlin, and Rawley Bishop.

by StephenGrosberg on Oct 13, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like it, I think they do that now, just not reported on much

You here about the split sqaud double headers when a team is composed mainly of minor leaguers of one organization or another. The B game never seems to make the radio. The minor league facilty is apparently close to Joker Marchant stadium. They talk about games going on on the “back fields” quite often. Regretably, I’ve never been there, but maybe this spring…new cheap airline flights to FLA from Grand Rapids, think under $200 round trip.

Bet Alli or JAYRC know the detail.

by Hack Johnson on Oct 13, 2010 7:59 PM EDT reply actions  

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