Successful offseason
I would say that so far we have had a very successful offseason. We have signed one of the top free agent relievers in Joaquin Benoit and we have signed the top catcher and one of the bigger bats available in Victor Martinez. He not not only is a big bat, but he covers out backup catcher, first baseman and primary DH for the next 4 years. I know he is not the most popular choice with every but he will do the main job we need him to -- protect Miguel Cabrera. He will make our lineup all the way around much better. So we can now take a large sigh of relief. We just need to aim for a SP, mainly, and a corner OF, anything else would be a bonus. I really don't see Dombrowski taking it easy though.
We've gone through ad nausem the available SP in free agency and we all can all continue to name the pitcher we'd choose to sign. Same can be said with the starting OFs Werth, Crawford and Maggs. They have got to be the most talked about names on the BYB blog. I would like to take some time to look at of the other possibilities via trades. We have mentioned a limited amount of names (Greinke, Garza and Gonzalez are a few of the more used names), but they are not the only ones out there. What I want to look at is possible trades that will take care of multiple holes on the team. Some may be blockbuster, some may not be.
The biggest issue with us getting one of the top names available would be the lack of blue-chip prospects. This by no means will make it impossible to make any trades, but it will make it quite a bit more difficult. We have quite a few RP that we can trade away, some OF that have potential (Wells, Boesch), some younger SP with high upside (Turner, Oliver) and even some utility type players (Raburn, Kelly). All of these players COULD be involved IF anything were to happen.
So the first set of players I would like to look at is B.J. Upton and almost any starting pitcher for Tampa. The Rays have as many quality SP as we do 4th OF. Matt Garza, Wade Davis, Jeff Niemann, James Shields, Andy Sonnastine, Jeremy Hellickson and David Price are their possible starting pitchers on their 40-man roster alone. They can afford to give up one. I think that the pitcher we would have the best shot at would be Shields or Garza, and I wouldn't mind a trade for either one at all. They are both still fairly young are both getting or are in their prime. The reason we'd be more likely to get them over the others? Salary. Shields is due $6.25MM over the next two years, including $4.25MM this year and Garza is in his 2nd year of arbitration after making $3.35MM last year. Upton is also due up for his second year of arbitration. He made $3MM and I don't see that raising too much after last year. It has been said and known that the Rays will want to cut back their payroll. They will have $28MM off the books between Pena, Crawford and Soriano (that will drop them down to roughly $44MM this year). I do not know how low they plan on having their payroll, but this is still something we could consider.
Upton would be an excellent pick up. We could put him in either corner outfield spot and he would be an excellent compliment to Austin Jackson at the top of the order. He has shown glimpses of power and hitting for average, we know he has speed and best of all he owns an 18.6 UZR in the OF with a decent arm. He owns a 14.0 WAR in 6 seasons in the big leagues. He'd be an excellent pickup in my eyes Stats wise, I really like either pitcher, but I think our chances are more likely to get Shields. He has a career 4.03 FIP and 3.85 xFIP, has a 16.6 WAR and best of all, he averages about 6 1/3 innings per game played in his career. He eats innings and we could really use that - especially in the last end of the season. Best of all? Upton is in the dog house after his poor year and Shields can be easily replaced.
The Rays bullpen is very short on players and we would probably need to have a package that focused on a bigger RP. They could also possibly need a 1B, which we could add Strieby to the package. I would say this is the more likely deal to happen.
The next team we should take a look at is Cincinnati Reds. They too have an overload of SP. Their biggest issue is so many of them are so young, it makes it harder to pick one to trade for. The obvious SP would be Arroyo and Cueto, Bailey and Volquez would probably be a bit pricey (if at all available) so I want to lean more towards Mike Leake. His FIP was 4.68 and xFIP 4.31 and he owns a 1.1 WAR in his one and only season. I think he has a very bright future and would be the second easiest (behind Arroyo) pitcher to pry away. He averages about 5 2/3 innings a game, but I think that could improve. The hitter we could look at is Drew Stubbs. He is very similar to Upton, has speed and power and has shown he can hit for average and owns a 6.2 UZR in his one year in the big leagues. He will be pricer than Upton simply because of his age and upside, but he might be worth it. Not too sure what we could give up to them. They could also use a little bullpen help and maybe a utility player to cover multiple positions.
There are other teams we could also aim for, but to be honest I'm not quite as big on them. We could look to Seattle and get Figgins to play 2nd and get Vargas as our 3rd starter. There is also Houston where Bretty Myers or Wandy Rodriguez could be had with Carlos Lee. We've heard about Carlos Beltran being available and we may be able to snag R.A. Dickey, John Maine or Mike Pelfrey. But like I said, none of these are deals that I'd be completely excited about. I wouldn't complain, but I wouldn't be excited.
If we were to make any of these trades, this would still open the possibility of getting Magglio back in the Old English D, get a quality pitcher and a quick, top of the lineup hitter. Pretty sure none of this will happen but it's the offseason and that's our time to dream, right?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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Good writeup
While we’ve all hoped and dreamed about adding an Upton who’s name starts with a J to the lineup, I would be extremely happy if we added BJ via trade. All signs point to him being moved as you said, and think that something may be in the works. We have a healthy trading past with the Rays (Joyce>Jackson deal) as well. Let’s keep our fingers crossed and hope we have a shiny new Tiger under the tree by Christmas
Rod Allen's humor consultant
Speaking of Joyce
I wouldn’t mind taking him back either. I think Upton would still be pricier than Joyce and I’m concerned about Upton’s attitude. Joyce would provide more pop in the middle of the order and fill one of the holes in the outfield. He’d probably cost us no more than a relief pitcher and maybe some salary relief (depending on the pitcher). This isn’t something I’m pushing for, per se, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Joyce return to Detroit.
That would be nice
but the prospects you mentioned would cost a lot. Upton is becomming a border line bust. For the prospects it would take to land him, it would be a total gamble. Mike Leake and Stubbs aren’t going anywhere unless we include Turner and Fields.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Garza in the D but he will cost a ton in prospects and will command a big salary shortly.
Definitely
I was just listing off players that teams may be interested in. Who is included, I have no idea. Upton is becoming a borderline bust, but I think that’s why we should target him. He’s not going to get much lower in terms of asking price and he could just be another Delmon Young. I would be ecstatic to see him in a Detroit uniform.
I agree completely on Leake and Stubbs. With how young they are, I wouldn’t mind it quite as much though. I would be a little more hesitant on pulling the trigger.
I also agree on Garza, which is why I would prefer Shields. He’s already commanding more money and I think he’d require few high profile prospects in return.
by Let's do this! on Nov 26, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
BJ Upton
He’s in the doghouse because of his poor year, and the fact that he’s a lazy, ungrateful, authority-resistant, uncoachable turd. I also think he’s proving himself dumb enough to not be able to use his ability in the big leagues after pitchers have adjusted to him. I’ll pass on BJ Upton.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
by momotigers on Nov 27, 2010 10:01 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
I like the analysis, not to mention Detroit is on his no trade list. Meh, to BJ Upton…
President & Founder of the "Bring back the Big Tilde in 2k11" Campaign
by Detroitchik on Nov 27, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
I think you may have the wrong Upton
I don’t believe B.J. that has a no trade list, it’s Justin.
As for his poor year, that’s even more reason to jump on. The price to take him away will be cheaper. I think a change of scenery will knock some sense into him showing him that if he wants to play and play with the same team, he needs to straighten out his attitude. I would be more than willing to take on the risk-reward with B.J. Upton.
by Let's do this! on Nov 27, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think you're right
it is Justin. thnx :)
President & Founder of the "Bring back the Big Tilde in 2k11" Campaign
by Detroitchik on Nov 28, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
No problem! I actually had to double check to make sure I wasn't missing something.
by Let's do this! on Nov 28, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
i get them mixed up all the time.
President & Founder of the "Bring back the Big Tilde in 2k11" Campaign
by Detroitchik on Nov 28, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
As would I
He has the potential to be exactly the kind of player our lineup needs. I think a change of scenery would turn things around for him. I’m more than willing to take a risk on him, because he has all star potential
Rod Allen's humor consultant
BJ Upton
18 HR, 62 RBI, & a .237?
WAR? There is only one expert I trust on WAR, Edwin Starr:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2pNCZiNk
that's enough of the non-relevant links
This is baseball.
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 29, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Uhh
Not entirely sure where you got those stats from, but they really aren’t the best stats to us. If you really would like to though, you cannot forget his 24 HR, 86 RBI and .300 AVG year from about 4 years ago.
He has stolen 40+ bases in each of the last 3 years and owns a career OBP/SLG/OPS of .345/.419/.784. Would not be terrible at all in the 2-hole of our lineup.
Link to his name
that’s where I got the stats from. 4 years ago? David Ortiz had some nice stts 4 years, but I wouldn’t be interested in him either.
BTW, my link to Edwin Starr was every bit as relevant as any WAR reference.
you don't have to like stats
you don’t even have to try to understand them if you want to embrace the outdated and curtail your own understanding of the game. But if you think you’re going to come to this blog and tell us we can’t use stats because you don’t believe in them you’re in the wrong place.
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 29, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
When did I say elsewise?
Do whatever you want. You say I use outdated stats, I say WAR is a made up stat whose relevence is nonexistent, if only because no one can adequately explain it.
But if you are trying to sell me BJ Upton is anything but a middling player, you are talking to the wrong guy.
Sabermetrics was once the talk of the day, but you don’t hear that one too much any more. I fail to see what it has to do with my “understanding of the game”. Last time I checked, the team with the most runs wins, but maybe that’s outdated, as well!
You don't hear much about sabermetrics anymore?
Dude, they’re turning Moneyball (the book that brought SABR into the mainstream) into a movie. Starring Brad Pitt. How much more mainstream can you get?
And in non-pop culture news, ESPN uses VORP (on occasion) and other advanced metrics, especially fielding metrics. Keith Law and Joe Posnanski are pretty trusted sportswriters coming from a sabermetric background (and there are plenty of others).
Plus, you’re calling WAR a “made up” stat? How bloody arbitrary. It makes more sense than batting average. If you disagree, kindly explain to me why a sacrifice bunt doesn’t hurt a player’s average but hitting a grounder that moves a runner from second to third does.
Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore!
by David Tokarz on Nov 30, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Plenty of people can explain it.
Not everyone can understand it.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Moneyball?
Seriously? The A’s haven’t been over .500 the last 4 years.
Saying it’s going to be in a movie? WWII makes it into a lot of movies, but it doesn’t make it current.
You list two (count them, two) sportswriters who have a sabremetrics background and I am supposed to be impressed. How many hundreds are there?
Don’t blame me for the rules regarding BA. I just know history. Mickey Stanley was starting in the 68 World Series because Ray Oyler had a miserable average.
That is not arbitrary.
I still do not see any of you going to the specifics of Upton. Please, enlighten me.
I will quote one of my previous comments to you, if I may.
He has stolen 40+ bases in each of the last 3 years and owns a career OBP/SLG/OPS of .345/.419/.784
And if you’d like to use BA as a focal point in this conversion, his career BA is .260, .023 higher than you have specified.
As for sabermetrics, they are by far more telling of a player than batting average is. I would gladly take a guy that hits .250 in his career with a WAR of 20 than I would a guy that’s going to hit .300 with a WAR of 10. Plain and simple.
by Let's do this! on Nov 30, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Wrong site to pick this fight...
Sorry buddy, I don’t think you’ll gain any ground.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
he'd have been banned by now on LL!
I try to let baseball fans from different angles come together here as long as it doesn’t get antagonistic.
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 30, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
I read on,
and it looks like it is.
I was for the Alexander trade when it happened, and I'd do 'er again!
by 77bestrookieclassever on Nov 30, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
sadly it turned that way
if he had wanted to discuss his disagreements with it, that’s fine. his behavior is not needed here.
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 30, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
I used his numbers from last year
not his career numbers. His BA has gone down every year since its 300 peak in 07. He has struck out an average of 152 times over the past 4 years. His OBP the last 2 years is .3175. That puts him below the Tgiers team average.
I am not saying BA is everything. I always admired Tony Phillips because he scored runs, even though he rarely had a great BA. Are you really telling me he is not a disappoint for the No. 2 overall pick?
You want to say his numbers have gone down the last three years, fine. You used one year. That’s crazy to judge a person who has had 5 years of big league service on one year of play. And no one has said he wasn’t a disappointment hence my reasoning for buy low. Maybe you should also read the article before posting comments.
By the way, Delmon Young has was also considered borderline bust before his good year this past year.
by Let's do this! on Nov 30, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
So was Pena
back when he was a Tiger. I do not think basing it on one bad year is so awful when that is a contract year, but I should have pointed out his downward direction earlier as my being against such a move.
Still, I have yet to see anyone defend his value or that of WAR so far. If I am perceived as “hating”, sorry. I like the exchange of ideas. Why is that hate?
here's a lnk
It explains how WAR came to be and why it’s a useful stat. I like it because it gathers everything a ball player does into a pretty easy to handle number. All the runs he saved with his glove (or allowed), all the runs he created with his offense, add it up, divide by about 10 to convert to wins and there you go. How do know how their production accrues runs? By linear weighting of baseball events, based on research done throughout the history of the game. Linear weighting of events in baseball has been around since the 50s. Basically it tells you how many runs have been scored historically when a batter say, hits a single, or hits a double, etc.
The really nice thing about WAR is that it’s great for predicting contracts. I can do it pretty accurately by estimating the WAR contribution of a player for the coming years and multiplying it by how much teams have shown they’re willing to pay for that contribution (about 4 to 4.5 million per 1 WAR). It works really well. If it didn’t, I’d abandon it as a waste of time.
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 30, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
How do you explain Tulowitzki's new contract?
The Rockies owe him the gross national product of Switzerland (give or take a few bucks) over the next 10 years.
Counterpoint
They locked up one of the best shortstops in the game until 2020.
Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore!
by David Tokarz on Nov 30, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say it was a bad contract
I’m just curious if Tulo’s WAR was on par with what he said about predicting contracts.
one key issue with that:
the length of the contract. So that introduces two problems: one, inflation of the US dollar is hard to predict that far out. Two, what a team is willing to pay for WAR is pretty predictable for a few seasons but we have no clue what it’s going to be paying during the backend of this deal.
But if you look at his age (26) and his track record so far, I think it’s safe to say he’s a 6 win player next year, so that’s worth about $24-27m right there and won’t really hit the aging curve full blast for a couple of years. I’d have to do some spreadsheeting to give you my estimate but $16 million a year sounds like a fair deal. We’ll probably be seeing 30 million dollar a year contracts handed out somewhat routinely by the end of his deal.
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 30, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
And at a reduced price.
Both got a good deal, Tulo’s gettin’ paid for the next decade and the Rockies are getting one of the best SS’s in the game for the next decade (as long as he stays pretty healthy).
I was for the Alexander trade when it happened, and I'd do 'er again!
by 77bestrookieclassever on Nov 30, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/tulo/
amazing how that worked
by Kurt Mensching on Dec 1, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you for the non-relevant link
Oh, you didn’t see the Edwin Starr references? Maybe you should put a sock in it before you take shots at other people!
Can I rec this twice?
Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore!
by David Tokarz on Dec 2, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
I tried
once is all it allows, booo
President & Founder of the "Bring back the Big Tilde in 2k11" Campaign
This definitely has the most rec's I've ever seen
on BYB, that is. The commemters at DBB throw them out like candy.
commenters
A word of advice: typing one-handed while drinking coffee leads to spelling and possible first-degree burns, depending on which part you’re concentrating on more.
+1
I wrote the thing and had to laugh at this…
by Let's do this! on Dec 1, 2010 8:14 AM EST up reply actions

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