Afternoon Prowl: Leyland can't smoke; Zumaya feeling great
by Kurt Mensching on Feb 16, 2010 1:02 PM EST
in Detroit Tigers News
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Print- The Detroit Free Press reports Jim Leyland is faced with his greatest challenge yet as the Tigers' manager: Michigan's smoking ban in public places. Leyland's reaction to the news, which he learned during The Jim Rome Show:
"Houston, we’ve got a problem."
"I’m not saying that I won’t cheat once in awhile," he said. "I’m not going to lie."
- Lynn Henning of the Detroit News may be the first area reporter to find his way to Lakeland and begin reporting on the Tigers. He talked to Joel Zumaya on Monday and checked in on how Jeremy Bonderman, Scott Sizemore and Brandon Inge are feeling. All four players are already in Lakeland.
- Zumaya, feeling "the best" he has in 2 1/2 years, reports the biggest change for him is his arm angle. He told Henning:
I came down (dropped) big time last season. I'm a high three-quarter guy, and what bothered me is that I had to drop that arm angle in order to be a little more comfortable. "Now I'm on top of my breaking ball again. And I'm behind my fastball and change-up instead of pushing it. "I was short-arming a lot of stuff last year."
- You've probably heard with Chinese New Year, the 2010 season will be played under the year of the Tiger. MLB.com's Jason Beck has some bad news about that in his mailbag: Detroit has never won a division title in the year of the Tiger. It did, however, lose 97 games in the last one. Uh oh! But he does have some good news for Astros fans ...
- Wondering about the Tigers' depth at shortstop? It is surprisingly good compared to most positions in the organization, Matt Wallace tells us at T75N.com.
- New site alert! Via Wallace, we learn Nick Underhill -- a correspondent for Scout's TigsTown.com -- will be writing about the Erie SeaWolves this year at a blog named after himself. Considering Double-A is where some of the most exciting prospects can be found, his blog will likely be a must-read this coming season. His first post says Cale Iorg is not ready to be promoted to Triple-A Toledo.
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If Zumaya is right
it’ll be such a huge boost to the pen.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Feb 16, 2010 1:09 PM EST reply actions
most importantly...
he needs to get his shoulder strength back.
and than he can continue to flirt with injury safely.
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Confidence
I imagine he’ll need to regain some measure of confidence both in himself and his ability…and from his coach.
What was that Leyland said last year about a 103 mph pitch that Zoom threw….“Yeah…but it was a ball”
I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of injury prevention...
he won’t be throwing strikes at all if he doesn’t have his strength back.
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joel
if joel is back to lights out, and valverde can continue to dominate, it’s gonna be like 06 when the tigs were automatic if they have the lead after 7 inn….sweet
automatic...
Until Todd Jones took the mound, then it was about 50/50
by rock n rye on Feb 16, 2010 3:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Make fun of Jonesy if you will...
But in ‘06 he was 37-for-43 in save opportunities. I’m not much of a mathematician, but that seems a bit better than 50/50.
by frisbeepilot on Feb 16, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
The coaster ended his ride in tact 84% of the time
He was pretty consistently at the 84- 85% save pct mark with the Tigers, and that’s pretty good. We’re not gonna get the 37 of 38- 97% save pct that Rodney posted last year, and wouldn’t get that even if F Rod came back, but Valverde was a very nice pick up.
Someone has to set him up, however, and who that is won’t be clear until the opener nears. Zoomer gets first crack, and Coke looks like the real thing. Everyone else is unproven, even though there is a ton of talent in the pen. The set up jobs are two of the key questions that have to be answered this spring.
All things considered
I think Ryan Perry acquitted himself nicely as a rookie. So he’s in the mix. Zumaya, Coke, Schlereth and perhaps Weinhardt could be a nice bridge to Papa Grande in the 9th (not to mention Ni or Seay as LOOGYs). So I’m not too worried about the bullpenners.
There certainly is a load of talent
but I think only one reliever that I’d feel confident about in a set up role right now. Sure, Zoomer could be healthy and regain his old form, which aren’t necessarily the same thing. Perry would need to show improvement on his 1.52 WHIP, but I think he will. Schlereth is still unharnessed but tremendously talented. Ni surpassed Seay in the second half, and Bobby was battling a sore shoulder as he posted an ERA over 5.00 after the break. Weinhardt, Thomas, Satterwhite, and lots of other young guns could step up and fill a role. But when? The Tiger bullpen was a problem last year, ranking second in blown saves, leading the league in BB’s, and ranking 10th in save pct despite Rodney’s 97% in the closer’s role. They were much better after the break, but it took too long to get to that point. Much of the improvement was due to the removal of Robertson and Zumaya from the pen. They were killing us. The talent is there, but much of it has question marks.
todd jones
jonesy was a good tiger…i dont think skip can live through another season like last year with rodney…man on third before he could focus…i cant take that again either.
Perhaps you should avert your eyes
when Jose Valverde is on the hill. He’s not exactly Mr. 1-2-3 himself…
Compared to Fernando, he certainly is
Rodney had 20 multi hit games last year, Valverde had 8. Rodney had 8 multiple walk games, Valverde had 3. Valverde definitely has far fewer ugly innings than Rodney did.
On Leyland
He will smoke just like he always has, he just won’t be doing it in the corner of the dugout anymore, he’ll sneak off to the club house, look for him to disappear down the little stairs through the door… frequently after May.
Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed
frequently when Inge and Laird come up to bat too, I'm sure!
by Kurt Mensching on Feb 16, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
your comment amused me so much
I had to potty after I read it because I laughed to hard…
Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed
The New Law . . .
. . . doesn’t take effect until May 1, so at least there is some hope for the Tigers getting off to a good start in April . . .
Actually . . .
. . . judging by the spring training photos here:
. . . Zumaya might well be in the best shape of his life—much skinnier.
Undoubtedly from his new workout plan
Chopping down massive amounts of lumber with a hatchet
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by JoelZumayaKegStand on Feb 17, 2010 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
You gotta be kidding me!
“Wondering about the Tigers’ depth at shortstop? It is surprisingly good compared to most positions in the organization”
The Tigers have NOBODY to play shortstop, at ANY level in the organization. There are a couple of prospects, the nearest to the majors being Nunez, and he’s several years away.
Everett doesn’t belong in the majors. His RAR shows that he costs the team twice as many runs at the plate as he saves with the glove. Santiago is below average at the plate and in the field, and it’s all downhill from there. There is NO depth at shortstop, period!
The shortstop article doesn’t really talk about depth at the major league level at all. I think the Tigers are setting up in case Ciriaco or Iorg break out, but I don’t expect much help at the major league level. On the other hand, they should have an intriguing prospect at literally every level of the minors next year, assuming they go ahead and put Iorg in Toledo (ill-advised or not).
by mattintoledo on Feb 16, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Social Promotion . . .
. . . Iorg has to go to Toledo, ready or not, so Ciriaco can go to Erie and Nunez to Lakeland—right? Although what happens to Dlugach in that scenario I don’t know . . .
I don't get into ranking prospects myself
I used to try to come up with a prospect ranking, but I felt pretentious because I don’t get to see them play nearly enough, even apart from comparing players at different positions vs each other, or balancing the “probabilities” vs the “possibilities” (the latter being the toolsy players with huge upside, in the event that they put it all together). What I’ve done more recently is to put together an “all prospect team” from the Tiger organization. This is a roster of players that interest me the most, from all that I’ve read on various sites, at each position. Iorg is one that has lost his lustre, and I was surprised that Ciriaco was added to the 40 man roster ahead of several pitchers that I thought would be more valuable to the team. I’d love nothing more than to see a breakthrough from any of the SS in the organization, but I’m not optimistic.
I didn’t mean to dis your report at all- it’s very much in line with what I’ve read about each player, with some interesting commentary added in. I just don’t agree at all with saying that the organization has some good “depth” when there isn’t a single prospect likely to be a solid major leaguer at that position.
you missed the key word
“compared.”
With Avila and Sizemore graduating to the majors, second base and catcher are nothing to be excited over. Third base is flat out frightening still. First base depends on whether you think Strieby is a first baseman. He should be but the Tigers think he’s an outfielder. So there’s not much behind him at first.
So yes, I think it’s safe to say shortstop is good compared to most positions in the organization.
by Kurt Mensching on Feb 16, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
But that isn’t saying much! I’d rate first base as one of the stronger positions. The strongest in the infield. Strieby and Larish are both more likely to be able to produce at the major league level than any other infielder, once you get past Sizemore. Strieby is being switched because he’s blocked at first by Cabrera. Even in the outfield, where there are some borderline major leaguers in the pipeline at the upper levels of the minors, there isn’t a top prospect behind AJax that would be fit to replace an Ordonez, and probably not even a Guillen should the need arise in the short run. Unless Strieby can convert successfully to the OF, it looks like DD is going to have to go shopping for replacements for all of the position players whose immovable contracts will be expiring after the 2010 season. If Jackson, Sizemore, and/ or Avila don’t prove to be capable replacements, that shopping list grows even longer.
I actually agree with not ranking prospects
This is the closest I come to ranking prospects, and as I said in the article I don’t particularly enjoy the exercise. The only reason I do it in this instance is because ranking players at the same position makes sense to me. I still find myself asking questions I don’t always have the answer to. I flip-flopped 2-4 three or four times before I settled on that order.
by mattintoledo on Feb 16, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
and another good point is how you have to balance between “tools” or “upside” and the probability of a player making it, even if his ceiling isn’t as high. I tend to believe that most scouting reports lean more toward the tools, particularly at the lower levels of the organization. For example, Dlugach vs Ciriaco. The Tigs have been high on Audy for years, but he’s never been able to put it all together, while Dlugach might be the next Adam Everett. Good glove, good range, but not a lot of pop in his stick. Brent might be the logical replacement should one of our SS tandem visit the DL during the 2010 season, while Ciriaco has obvious holes in his game but could be a star if he put it together. I look forward to seeing both of them in Lakeland this spring, but I would not be optimistic about the chances of success if either of them was needed in Detroit. Not that they could do much worse…..
as matt said, you're missing the difference between organization depth and MLB-ready players
did you even bother to read the link or did you just decide you felt like a rant?
by Kurt Mensching on Feb 16, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
No, I read the article
and the point is that the Tigers needed a shortstop in 2008, again in 2009, and again in 2010, yet there’s nobody nearly ready at this time, and won’t be next season, either. I’m just about Iorged out, and most of the reviews that I’ve read on Fields indicate that he’s likely to be moved to third base at some point, in addition to being several years away due to his youth and inexperience. Nunez looks like the brightest prospect of the lot, and he doesn’t seem to have the plate patience, at least at this stage, to progress. But there are no Beckhams, no Andrus, Brignac, or Moutsakas. No Escobar or Triunfel, ready to fill in one of these years. The result is Adam Everett, and Ramon Santiago. The result is that the system is inadequate to meet the needs of the big league team. Isn’t that the point?
I think that those ranking position players in focusing on the Tiger system, in general, tend to get easily impressed because of the extreme lack of talent in the form of complete ballplayers. There are a few that can field, and some that can hit, but not one complete player that is ready to step up with a load of vacancies coming up after the 2010 season. Maybe I should be happy with Sizemore and Jackson getting a shot this season, but I’m skeptical even there. The best hitter in the system is probably Ryan Strieby, and he’s being converted from 1B to the OF. If there’s a vacancy for him next season, he’d probably be asked to replace Magglio Ordonez. After Streiby, there’s Wells, Wilkin Ramirez, Brennan Boesch, and we know about Clete Thomas, all with big holes in their swings. Maybe one can step up and become a fifth outfielder in the majors, but replacing Ordonez? I don’t think so.
There will be needs at 3B and SS in a year. As I mentioned, there were needs at SS the past two years, as there is currently, with nobody in sight to fill the need. This is all the flip side of a system that is loaded with talented young pitchers- possibly even enough to save DD a trip to the free agent market even with three expiring fat contracts for Willis, Bonderman, and Robertson at season’s end. Likewise, the bullpen looks set for a while, with plenty of talented young guns in the pen and in the pipeline. I’d much rather have strong pitching if given a choice between the two, but I don’ think there is necessarily a trade off. I’m not impressed with the depth of talent at ANY position in the Tiger organization, except in the pitching department.
Seriously?
Beckhams/Escobars/Andrus’ don’t grow on trees- these are all impact prospects, and if the Tigers wanted a chance at an impact SS prospect, we would have grabbed Grant Green in the draft. But had we done that, you would have been complaining about not having SP depth. You can’t have everything, and having players that have even some projection at SS is better than not only most other positions in our farm system, but good overall. Our SS is how you want every position in a farm system to look.
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by David Tokarz on Feb 16, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Can't agree, Deke
The SS in the Tiger system is most certainly not how I’d want any position to look, especially one that has had a need in Detroit the past two years, has a current need, and will have a need again next winter. I’d trade every one of those SS prospects we have for any one on the list that I posted. There are a couple of things that DD could have done differently. He could have used one of the top picks in the 08 draft on someone other than a relief pitcher. He could have offered arbitration to Polanco and picked up a couple of extra first rounders. It’s looking like the 2010 Tigers will have five of DD’s former draft picks on the 25 man roster: Verlander, Porcello, Sizemore, Perry, and Zumaya. Avila could be a sixth. Sure, others have been traded for current players, and others are in the pipeline. Give DD full credit for building a strong pitching contingent, but for position players, the system is in desperate shape.
You can have depth without impact players.
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Not talking about "impact" players, just adequate would be a start
The current organization has had a need for three years running, will have a need after 2010, and they still felt that signing Adam Everett, whom I consider to be inadequate as a major league shortstop, as their best option. That’s not depth. The question is whether there are players in the pipeline that can step in at some point in the future, say before they’re Rule 5 eligible, and at least be an adequate starting shortstop in the major leagues. I don’t think you can say that any one of the SS prospects we have is more likely than not to fit that description.
If the point is that we have a bunch of players with a nice upside, but major holes in their game, and you call that depth, okay that’s your definition. If the point is that SS is a bit stronger than most of the other positions in what is universally recognized as a very weak system for position players, okay- for what that’s worth. My point is that I’m not at all satisfied with the quality of talent at the SS position in the Tiger organization, and I think it’s something that needs focus. I also think that’s what the nice bonus to Danny Fields was all about- even if he winds up playing the hot corner. Again, I’m not dissing the article at all. It’s a very nice series.
I will say, I’m very glad we didn’t grab Grant Green. I am not much of a fan of his.
My old blog is Tigers By The Numbers.
Now I write at Bless You Boys.
Like music? See what I'm listening to at my Last.fm account.
To be totally honest, I'd take Zoom's "health" being hyperbole so long as
Liriano’s “health” is also hyperbole. We come out better in that exchange.
I am going ot have to agree with Tigerdog here...
I guess this argument all comes down to the deffenition of “depth”…
Does having a warm body at SS for each level give you depth? Sure the players at SS that the Tigers have do have some upside… BUT none are good bets to be above average major leaguers and non are ready to step in right now…
To me depth would mean having players that could step into a major league roll if need be and not be completely embarassing… that or having multiple impact prospects at the lower levels…
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