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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Leyland on Zumaya: 'That stuff is nasty.' But is it?

During the next few weeks I'll be taking a closer look at each of the nine themes to watch as spring training progresses. I'll start with the pitching questions.

Earlier this month, Tigers right-handed reliever Joel Zumaya told MLB.com's Jason Beck he's probably on his "last string." 

If he is -- and he's a bit melodramatic on these things, so I don't agree with him -- it's not because of his pitching. At least, if manager Jim Leyland is to be believed. Quoted by Tom Gage of the News, Leyland said:

"The ball is flying out of his hand. I watched him throw and asked one of my coaches, 'How does a human being hit that?' It's exploding up there. I'm holding my breath it holds up because that stuff is nasty. There is no shortage of velocity. That I can promise you."

Of course, velocity has never been the issue for Zumaya, and it wasn't in 2009 either.

Star-divide

Fangraphs.com's Dave Cameron wrote last year:

For Zumaya, there appear to be diminishing returns associated with his velocity. 99 with location is an awful lot better than 101 with no idea where it’s going. For his sake, and really for baseball’s sake, let’s hope the Tigers can help him ease back off the fastball a little bit.

The results? Not pretty. A review of the traditional stuff: 4.94 ERA, worst of his career, in another injury shortened season in 2009. FIP was even worse at 5.48, although it's never been better than the 3.34 of his rookie season. His walks rate was an awful 6.39 and home runs per fly balls came in at 10.4 percent. Of course, Zumaya has not pitched more than 33 2/3 innings in the majors since 2006 either.

A few other notes of interest: in 2009 using stats from Fangraphs: Zumaya's fastball clocked in at its highest speed yet, averaging 99.3 mph. He threw it 80 percent of the time. The big difference in results could be because the fast ball has failed Zumaya and was worth -4 runs beneath average. At the start of his career, it was a far above-average pitch.

In 2009, batters swung a bit more often at balls outside the zone, while swinging at balls inside the zone at about the same rate. But they made contact more often when he threw strikes, connecting 79.1 percent of the time vs. the 77.2 in 2006.

Of course, with such limited innings, it's hard to read too far into any of those stats.

So maybe Leyland doesn't know how batters hit it, but they do. It will be important for Zumaya to get a little more action on the ball, even if he has to back off the velocity. Of course, last season we heard the claim he would back off the radar readings too, only to see them go up.

Zumaya told Gage:

Mainly it's all about how I feel. I was pitching hurt last year. It hasn't been too fun. My arm slot is higher now, though, and my ball is coming down at a different angle.

If that results in better movement, we could see good things from Zumaya this year.

But it's still too early to know just what we'll get out of Zumaya..

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Hoping he puts it together

I’ve always been a Zumaya fan, so I’m pulling for the guy. If he can stay healthy for an entire year and not overthrow, he could be puttin up some very solid numbers in a setup role. Plus I really like the look of Coke/Seay, Perry, Zumaya, and Valverde to close out the 7th-8th-9th

by tigers22 on Feb 24, 2010 4:52 PM EST reply actions  

Things go better with Coke

in the bullpen. Ni and Seay are better in specialty roles. Perry and Schlereth are still unrefined, though very talented. Too many BB’s there. I love that 1.06 WHIP, and the team leading appearances that Coke put up with the Yankers. Start out with Coke and Zoomer in set up roles.

by Tigerdog1 on Feb 24, 2010 4:55 PM EST reply actions  

Many things go better with Coke

OK, I’m going to stop. This is too easy.

by ChrisDTX on Feb 24, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

*tweaked

I wonder how many of my comments have been devoted to correcting grammatical and/or spelling errors?

by madpoopz on Feb 25, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe go into a Southpark Character creator

And use Tweek as a model (give him a ball cap, a Fu Manchu and a mullet).

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Feb 26, 2010 12:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Coke

Is the hanging curveball of pun-ready names.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
USA! USA! USA! USA!

by Baroque on Feb 25, 2010 3:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t care about his fastball, I want him to throw the change-up that was lights-out when he was in the minors. I hate the “don’t get beat with your third best pitch” misnomer in the majors. Throw it. It’s not like he’s lights out with anything else in the last 3 years.

My old blog is Tigers By The Numbers.

Now I write at Bless You Boys.

Like music? See what I'm listening to at my Last.fm account.

by Mike Rogers on Feb 24, 2010 5:06 PM EST reply actions  

While as a rule I agree with you re: the changeup

I wanted to strangle him in this game. If you remember, he K’d Milton Bradley at 104 mph (according to WGN, anyway), only to have Hoffpauir drill a changeup 913 feet.

by ChrisDTX on Feb 24, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

That is 100% location, though, not pitch selection.

My old blog is Tigers By The Numbers.

Now I write at Bless You Boys.

Like music? See what I'm listening to at my Last.fm account.

by Mike Rogers on Feb 24, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty much

It was also just an awful pitch, too. No movement at 85 mph – BP. Anyway, I’d like to see the kid throw his fastball 70% of the time instead of 80%.

by ChrisDTX on Feb 24, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

And his curve

He used to throw a great curveball with 2 strikes. Hitters locked up every single time.

Check out Detroit4Lyfe

by handsomerob1 on Feb 24, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you Mike,

SO many times were people guessing fastball or changeup right on him. I don’t care what the first three curve balls look like, its that one that he hangs somewhere in his inning of work that kills me. Once you see that thing you know he is throwing nothing but fastballs. Just having a change-up that he can throw for a strike would make Zumaya effective again. Maybe he should hang out with JV because that guy has a knack for figuring out how to throw/modify a pitch……

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Feb 25, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Zoomer needs to LOCATE the heater in the strike zone

and his breaker is freakin deadly sick!
And shut that friggin radar meter off!

by Tigerdog1 on Feb 24, 2010 5:27 PM EST reply actions  

103 on the gun at Houston last Summer....

but he lost it and lost the game. Zumaya needs a analyst to sit him down and go through the game for hime. Joel’s stuff is not the issue, thinking the game is the issue. A month with a great reliever like Rollie Fingers might help more than a 103 MPH fastball and 12 to 6 curve.

by Marcmargolis on Feb 25, 2010 12:11 AM EST reply actions  

I sat behind home plate about ten rows up

It was sad to see great potential go wasted. That game was blown by Leyland and not Zumaya. Joel was struggling and Jim let him blow his arm out that day!!

by Marcmargolis on Feb 25, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Zoom

Maybe they should make him back into a starter again. As I recall he was a darn good one in the minors. Just a thought and I know they have many candidates for the slots. In any event I hope he has a good healthy year which translates into a very good year for the tigers.

by cbg-ed on Feb 25, 2010 2:48 AM EST reply actions  

He's got enough arm problems already

why would making him a starter, where he would pitch twice as many innings, help that at all?

Check out Detroit4Lyfe

by handsomerob1 on Feb 25, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Papelbon,

After Paps first year of closing they said he might need those days off between starts to save his arm. SP you have to get your arm in shape for and cardio, but its not necessarily more taxing than coming out for one inning and trying to throw so hard that your shoulder falls off when you are moving boxes….

by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Feb 25, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

it might force him to manage himself better

he seems to think his role allows him to come out and throw as hard as he can for as long as he can

by cloud wall on Feb 26, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Zoomer's career as a starter was aborted

when he was called up to pitch in the Tiger bullpen.
He hadn’t completed his repertoire, and was only 20 years old. He had his heater, which was right outta the freak show, and a nasty hammer- a 12/6 curve ball that was just sick when the heater was working. But it’s all about location, location, location with the fastball, and his off speed junk will buckle some knees if he locates the one ball.

If he was to be groomed for the rotation, he’d have to go back down to the minors and complete the work on his repertoire. We’ve all seen what he can do in a set up role when he’s on. Give him that job outta the gate and see if he can fill the role. If so, he’s a game changer. If not, send him down and do whatever. Despite the quantity of talented arms in the system for the pen, we don’t have two clear cut candidates for set up roles. I’d have Coke as one guy, based on his 1.06 WHIP and the fact that he led the Yankers in appearances last year. Give Zoomer first crack at the other set up job, rather than mess with Perry and his 1.50 WHIP, or Seay and his aching shoulder.

by Tigerdog1 on Feb 25, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Before anything, Zumaya is my Tiger

and I have always been numero uno in terms of fanship, so take my post with a grain of salt I suppose.

Of all the articles I have read, the one quote that I liked most was the one relating to the angle of his arm and the effect of this on the late “dip” of the life on his fastball. I love the overpowering velocity as much as the next guy but as everyone here knows when it comes in straight as an arrow, it doesn’t help your FIP… The one in-game strategic technique I’d like to see Joel change is his use of the curve and change mixture. The numbers in terms of percentages were a bit high for the fastball, but the counts seemed ot be predictable. The best case scenario would be a changeup (good one… LOW IN THE ZONE) to start a count followed by a fastball or two and a hammer curve to finish the count, but instead it seemed to be a 103 fastball wherever it landed to start, followed by two more fastballs, one of which landed “right down woodward”…

VP of Membership, Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by JoelZumayaKegStand on Feb 25, 2010 10:05 AM EST reply actions  

Coke goes well with....

I happen to like mine with Beam. But not mixed, just as a chase. No use in messing up some perfectly good liquor by diluting it. LOL

by riki42972 on Feb 26, 2010 12:27 PM EST reply actions  

Spiced rum

or Beam Black works nicely. And of couse for the other coke, hookers.

by ChrisDTX on Feb 26, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Joel a starter?

I am pretty sure thats not going to happen. The Tigers have a hard enough time keeping him healthy throwing minimal innings.

by riki42972 on Feb 26, 2010 12:33 PM EST reply actions  

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