Austin Jackson wows with pair of triples in Tigers' win
Ho-hum.
Another day, another hit for Austin Jackson. Actually, several. Two triples are the headliner, of course. But he added to that an infield single. Starting to believe he's living up to that "exciting" billing Baseball America gave him this offseason. If only I could see some of it! Oh, and MLB.com's Jason Beck tweets Jackson is leading the Grapefruit League in hits.
Rick Porcello threw another four innings of scoreless ball, allowing two hits and two walks while striking out one.
Most of the pitchers had good days actually. Phil Coke, Eddie Bonine, Joel Zumaya, Fu-Te Ni, Robbie Weinhardt ... there really wasn't anything all that eventful there to report. Daniel Schlereth got lit up, but he was almost certainly going to be bound for Triple-A anyway.
Comment of the Night
Murrajo sums up what we're all thinking right now:
These boys can score some runs
I hope it translates into the season
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Comments
Since somebody's gotta do it
I will.
Spring training stats mean nothing. All those good feelings you have right now are based on meaningless performances. Jackson’s performance no more indicates his true talent than Sizemore’s or Scherzer’s or Verlander’s or Cabrera’s. If anything, we know less than we do two weeks ago because of all the misinformation that ST stats create.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
We definitely know more than we did two weeks ago, we now know with almost absolute certainty that Austin Jackson will start the season hitting leadoff and playing centerfield.
In that sense, yes
But the numbers that these guys are putting up distort our sense of reality- so there is a disconnect between what we think we know and what is.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm
I’d argue that getting on base doesn’t matter, but getting two triples does. That requires speed and base-running acumen, because no fielder has an excuse for not hustling.
by metatron5369 on Mar 14, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I realize Spring Training stats are pointless to pour over, but I prefer the warm, fuzzy feelings I get whenever I see AJax do well!
I’m usually a pessimistic cynic, but I do have a good feeling about the new guy. (hopefully now he doesn’t totally tank…)
by DetroitTigersGeek on Mar 14, 2010 6:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
obviously I don't disagree
you’ve read all my notes of warning, you know that.
But taking a guy like Jackson, it’s good to see him exhibiting better control of the strike zone than in the past (and generally against pitchers who’ll be in the majors) and showing more power than he has in the past.
And besides that, got to blog about something daily!
by Kurt Mensching on Mar 14, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
As the saying goes
Spring Training stats are meaningless.
Spring Training performance is not.
by Trysdor on Mar 14, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Very true
I’m normally a stats guy, but having seen the Tigers the past two days in person in ever-so-sunny Lakeland, I’m extremely impressed with Austin Jackson’s performance. The wind has been crazy here, and fielders are having fits out there trying to track down fly balls — wind-blown and sun-lost doubles have been falling everywhere — but Jackson is making great plays to compensate (two in one inning yesterday). Plus, his triples weren’t cheapies — they were gap shots and he flew around the bases.
Just my $0.02, of course.
by frisbeepilot on Mar 14, 2010 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
To some degree yes
Jackson looks like he’s performing well, which is a good sign. But you can’t really extrapolate too much out of these few games- certainly not enough to say that he’s progressed along in his development.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
The point I was making
is that the true indicators of a player’s improvement or success isn’t something measured in statistics. Things like “Is he recognizing the strikezone better,” “is he making better decisions on defense” “Is his swing improving,” “is he moving better and smarter on the basepaths” The length and irregularities of Spring Training make it very difficult for statistics to accurately bare out how well a player is performing or how much he has improved. Over the course of the season, however, if he’s made these improvements in his game, then they will bare out and his statistics will reflect it. Over the 70 or so at bats with wildly varying quality of pitching, statistics are easily skewed. Not so, as you know, over 162 games. So I suppose we shall see, won’t we?
I'm not convinced you can extrapolate those indicators either
It’s been eleven games. Sure, his strikezone judgment has looked good, but we don’t know if it’ll stick. And given his minor league history I think it’s okay to still be worried.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, answer me this then
If there is no way to tell if a player has improved his game, do managers just cross their fingers and hope for the best when they add a young minor league player to their MLB club? There is no reliable special knowledge involved? I find that completely, utterly impossible to believe.
No
I’m saying that such a small number of games can’t tell you much. Normally managers have months and months of minor league data to look through. You take a look at the player’s history, his minor league numbers and scouting reports, the quality competition he’s facing, his work ethic. Then you ask yourself: where do I see this player going?
There’s so many other good things to look at regarding player development that this whole “Oh, he looks so good in Spring Training” meme is laughable. Sure, ST is relevant, but it’s not the most relevant thing to the evaluation of a prospect.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
He's doing exactly what I expected.
Which is getting off to a hot start. If last season is any indicator, he’ll keep this up until June, then cool off for a few months.
If Jackson keeps playing like a good player . . .
. . . sooner or later you’ll have to accept that he might be a good player!
If he were 0-for-spring-training, I suspect you would not think the sample size too small to draw a conclusion . . . :)
No
I would- he’d be due for positive regression. It isn’t a hatred of Jackson I’m operating under- it’s that I don’t want everyone getting their hopes up and calling for his head in a few months when he goes 0-for-July.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't even say that for Dane Sardinha.
0 for July is the most brutal projection I’ve ever heard for any player.
I hope he doesn't go 0-for-July
Seriously- don’t want to shatter his confidence.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
So Wake....
……Your not impressed with Austin?……So in otehrwords the roster is also set becasue these games mean nothing?…..no one can make there way onto the roster becasue f how well they play….Im not trying to be rude becasue I somewhat aggree with your arguement….However you have to say its impressive and that these games do matter to these guys.
by BennieBladesFan on Mar 14, 2010 6:26 PM EDT reply actions
Don't willfully misinterpret what he is saying.
The performances are not indicative of what is going to happen during the season. There can be improvements (mechanics/performance wise) but the stats don’t tell the whole story.
Personal feelings and impressions aside, these games are warm up and so you don’t want to be sold on this as a precursor to the regular season. Austin, from all reports, has made some adjustments/improvements and hopefully it translates into the regular season.
Dontrelle Willis apologist.
Thats why I said.....
….I agree with what he is saying….Im just also saying that the spring means a lot to certain guys, and Ajax is one of them, and he has looked great and it has showed.
by BennieBladesFan on Mar 14, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
No
He’s looked good. I hope he continues to look good, and I hope he proves me absolutely wrong. I just don’t want him to be crucified later based on this performance. My concern is that Jackson is not a finished product. Spring training can’t change that.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
spring training
we all know these games are meaningless…and pretty much know the strength of these tigers is their pitching…but it sure is good to see these guys get their confidence up and believe in themselves…as opposed to getting rocked and in an 0 for slump…Leyland knows talent, and he’s not just whistling dixie when he raves of all the pitching this club has….gonna be a fun summer..GO TIGERS !!!
Kinda funny
Notice that the individuals that continue to bring up the fact that spring stats mean nothing have yet to see these prospects play.
While I don’t expect Jackson to hit .400 or even .300 for that matter he is very impressive. It is encouraging to see that he works the count and has a decent glove. Two outstanding catches yesterday and the kid has wheels.
Don’t get me wrong, I hear your “small sample size” rant…I get it. Watch the kid play before you go making strong opinions though.
For the Cabreras and Verlanders spring is kinda irelivent. It matters for the prospects and players on the bubble though. Rather than work things out, they are auditioning for a job.
I would rather have a great spring than a terible spring.
by JAYRC on Mar 14, 2010 7:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
You can be fooled by just watching someone play.
Just like you can be fooled by statistics. The latter, though, has more predicative parts than the former. Both are necessary, so don’t sell one short.
Dontrelle Willis apologist.
Stats are not as important....
….as we think?….while I agree with what your saying its what the game is based off of right or wrong….I think wins for a pitcher is the most overated stat of any…..However for someone to say that Ajax has not looked good is just plain not watching or not wanting to believe in a player….Of course he will not hit .400 but does it mean hes not impressing?….I mean look at guys like JV and Zumy in 06 they both had small sample sizes and they turned out all right…..I just dont undeerstand how someone cant be impressed ir excited about what hes doing is all.
by BennieBladesFan on Mar 14, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Missed the point
Sometimes there are anomalies or cherry picking when reporting and can be misleading. There is no true concrete method of predicting how a player will do. You can pull “a had only a small amount of stats to look at and did fine” and you can pull an equal or greater number saying the opposite. Of course putting words in someone’s mouth fulfills a point for you (if you ignore everything) just as well. I’ve never said Ajax hasn’t looked good.
I’m interested in how Ajax is doing but I’m not going to put too much on him continuing his spring performance.
Dontrelle Willis apologist.
Cherry Picking
I think this happens more with the spring training “B” team. Wells (kind of reluctant to go here on this board…), for example has been our CF for the 5-9 innings of these games…against “B” pitchers. Jackson has been hitting against starting pitchers and guys that are on the team. You can say that other pitchers are working on pitches and what not, but they still have their “A” stuff in their back pocket and are willing to use it most of the time. I’m happy about AJax so far…decent eye, extra base power/legs and a good plate approach.
No
You’re right (though I don’t appreciate the “you haven’t seen them play” dig).
Perhaps I was unclear. What I should have done was to encourage cautious optimism- that Jackson looks good now (as do Willis/Bonderman) but that he has the potential to turn back into a pumpkin (as do Willis/Bonderman). People do need to step back and realize that 11 games won’t tell you much, either from a stats or a scout perspective.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree with demon deacons
theres so many pitchers just working on getting one pitch down, etc, that the only real thing that we learn is who is healthy. A Jax was always going to be our CF. he might be sent down if he struggles, but i firmly believe the day the trade was made he was penciled in at cf leadoff.
by Fien SHOULD CLOSE on Mar 14, 2010 7:34 PM EDT reply actions
Man that sucks.....
…..for willis and robertson becasue theyve looked good this spring but it just doesnt matter I guess becasue the hitters they are facing are working on stuff too…..I guess I dont know what anyone would look for then to see who getst he 5th spot?…..were not going to go off od this sring?…In that case willis has a slim chance and that is unfortunate.
by BennieBladesFan on Mar 14, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You need to move closer to the middle than being so far on the assumed positive or negative of a statement.
It’s called being cautious. Things don’t work out all the time and everyone here is a Tigers’ fan; we want the team to be successful but some people also want to see how things go in the regular season before believing.
Dontrelle Willis apologist.
the internet is no place to make a nuanced opinion!!
by Kurt Mensching on Mar 14, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This
I hope Bondo is back- I’d love to have 6 quality starters (and Armando/ZachMiner) for 5 rotation spots. I’d love to have ROY candidates at 2B and CF. I’d love bounceback seasons from Maggs and Carlos Guillen. But I’d rather be cautious than get burned badly.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
looking good so far
I know..I know Spring training doesn’t mean anything….But u can tell the talent is there the.. pitching still needs a little work but the hitting so far looks great hopefully we can carry that into the season and win the division
I hear both sides of it...
I’m just saying A LOT of things good and bad happen beyond the box score.
Good debate as usual though
by JAYRC on Mar 14, 2010 7:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree.
I believe both ways of baseball philosophical thinking are necessary and compliment one another.
Dontrelle Willis apologist.
well this is the answer
1) Stats tell you what happened.
2) Some stats have useful predictive value. This we know because they’ve been around and they’ve been shown useful in seeing the future.
3) Some scouts have useful predictive value. However, it is much harder to check the track record of specific scouts (or fans) than of stats.
4) Thus, 2 and 3 are useful checks on each other.
I’m not going to trust stats based on 10 games in March. I’m not going to trust observations of people who do have a track record of having successful observations.
Thus,
5) I hate spring training.
by Kurt Mensching on Mar 14, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I like spring training because some baseball happens.
I also like it because of spring uniforms.
Dontrelle Willis apologist.
ok, let me rephrase
I hate hate spring training after about the fifth game.
It will briefly be exciting when I actually get to see a game or three on TV, then boring because the games don’t matter until April 5.
by Kurt Mensching on Mar 14, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Come down here and say that.
It’s intoxicating!
(And not just because of the 19th Tee, the dive/redneck/biker bar we’ve hit up twice in the past two days.)
by frisbeepilot on Mar 14, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Dive is putting it loosly.
It is a favorite after the lakeland flying tiger games too.
by JAYRC on Mar 14, 2010 9:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You lucky bastards
Here I am, having to go back to class tomorrow, and you guys get to drink and watch baseball. Not. Fair.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Sooo...
I’m gathering that Mr. Mensching hates spring training.
by JAYRC on Mar 14, 2010 9:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Almost as much as "small sample size"
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
I think I hate the term “small sample size” more than anyone. Not only is it said thirty times per thread, it’s anoying ummm all thirty times.
by JAYRC on Mar 15, 2010 3:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I try, I try
It would be nice if people would avoid making judgments on small samples though. Just sayin…
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
glad the tigers did reasonably well today
i missed the game cause i was watching our women’s bball team beat findlay. great day for the teams i like!
I Like Pie
Im just a positive person....
……so when I see a player do well sure im gona be happy….Will Ajax hit .400 no way….will he hit .300 maybe, who knows…..But if he was hitting .200 right now would people say he has a chance to make the team or maybe even hit .300 and that would be no….But either way its a small sample size so hitting ,400 or hitting .200 wouldnt matter? Im just trying to figure out.
by BennieBladesFan on Mar 14, 2010 8:04 PM EDT reply actions
Jackson
would be coming to Detroit either way. That came from the Brass. Leyland said it weeks and weeks ago
Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed
I think I get where you are coming from
You understand that the stats don’t mean very much in spring training, but a player is clearly going to feel better about himself and be more confident if he starts off well, even though he also knows that spring training stats don’t mean much.
Even if something doesn’t count for actual wins, or a person is involved in just a goofy competition with some friends, it still is more fun to do well than to lose. A player who starts out well is happier and likely to feel better about his chances that season.
Whether it actually carries over is another question – but I also like to see guys do well. I know it isn’t predictive, but it makes it more fun to pay attention to see wins instead of nothing but a bunch of losses. Regardless of whether it actually counts, winning is still more fun than losing.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Spring Training is also the diffrence between Detroit and Toledo or no job at all for some folks.
Oh well, maybe I just love it so much because I’m a season ticket holder.
by JAYRC on Mar 14, 2010 9:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The first week
I remember after the first week of the regular season last season, ESPN had one of those polls, the question was “Is the first week a good barometer for the rest of the season?”. The whole country voted 80-20 in favor of “no”, except for one state overwhelmingly voted for “yes”. It was Michigan and I remember finding it odd cause we were at .500 give or take a game. Not completely with the discussion of projecting spring training on the whole season, but just something funny I remember.

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