Question On What Spring Is For In Regards To The Roster???

by BennieBladesFan on Mar 14, 2010 7:59 PM EDT

Ive seen a lot of pople saying that the spring is just for working on things, which I agree with, and getting into shape, which I also agree with, However what do we do with guys like Ajax, Bondo, Robertson and Galaraga who are fighting for 25 man roster spots? I mean we have to decide on who will be on the team and who wont right? I mean Willis and Robertson looked good last time out however does it matter in the end becasue the teams they were facing were also working on there swing and getting ready for the season? In Ajax case is it fair to say hes having an impressive spring hitting over .400 becasue the pitchers are working on stuff? There has to be some weight taken into spring training numbers right? Or does it mean the 25 man roster is already on Mr. Dombroskis desk and the players are doing it all for nothing other then getting into shape. So my questions to everyone are as follows. What stock do you put into spring training games for hitters and pitchers since they are both working on things? and also, Does it matter what the above mentioned pitchers do in the spring becasue the oposition is working on things and just taking it easy? My answer is heck yes Ajax has been impressive. Does it mean hes going to hit over .300 I dont think so but who knows. As for the pitchers I also think its important that the spring will have some weight in the decision. Thank You in advance.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.

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Good Question!

I hear what you’re saying. A 26.30 ERA doesn’t mean much for Max Sherzer, because he’s got his start on day 2 sewn up. The same ERA for Nate Robertson means a lot more because he’s either pitching for the Detroit Tigers, Washington Nationals long relief, or Peking Ducks.

I bet Nate isn’t “working on pitches” nearly as much as JV, Max, or Kid Rick is. Same for Bondo, Mondo, Bonine, and Willis. I think their results SHOULD mean more to us because the writing on the wall is that their results mean more.

Hitters are a different bird. I don’t personally buy all of the “swing adjustments” or “swing approaches” that hitters are said to explore during the spring. I think a hitter goes up to the plate and has a similar approach to the regular season.

by momotigers on Mar 14, 2010 9:16 PM EDT reply actions

I think this is a good way to look at it

Players like Jackson/Thomas/Kelly/Wells or Willis/Robertson/Galaraga are trying their hardest… but it’s important to keep that in context. If Scott Sizemore is trying his hardest against a guy who is working on a splitter and goes 4-4 with a walk and a homer, that doesn’t mean that Scott Sizemore is the second coming of Joe Morgan. Context is important- including who the player faced.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Mar 15, 2010 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions

It also matters WHEN a player is in the game.

Players can’t control what the other team is up to, or what the other pitcher is working on. They just have to do their best in the situation that they’re presented with. JL will have some of the regulars working on making more contact, by sending them up there and treating every pitch as if they had two strikes on them. The Tigers left way too many runners strandedinge on third last year that should have been plated because our guysinge weren’t trying to make contactinge.
The players most likely to be on the 25 man roster get to bat in the early innings. Not just to get their work in, but to also get to face the other teams’ best pitchers. Stat lines are important, to a degree, especially for those vying for a job. Robertson, Willis and Bonderman need to work on the fundamentals of throwing the fast ball for strikes, and throwing an effective off speed pitch working off that fast ball. That’s basic pitching, and it’s what they need to get back to as well as what will reflect well in the stat lines. If they’re getting shelled, it’s because the things that they fundamentally have to do well aren’t working. If they’re walking too many hitters, that’s a stat line that matters. Same with the guys in the pen. No pitcher can keep walking hitters and have a good spring, no matter their status on the team.

by Tigerdog1 on Mar 15, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions

spring training is more than games

and decisions about roster spots are made on the basis of many factors:

- contract situations
- options available
- how the player fits into the roster
- what the minor league rosters might look like
- health
- things the coaching staff and general manager are looking for, which can include a pitcher’s stuff, a batter’s swing, better speed on the basepaths, better decision making in the field, etc.
- results of in-game situations that you find in box scores.
- some sort of gut feeling

Point is, the stats line of a player is just one small factor of many that go into decisions. Unfortunately, it’s the one thing most visible to fans, so many put too much emphasis on it.

Rest assured, teams neither throw out the results entirely, nor do they weight them nearly as much as the fans do.

Bless You Boys.com

by Kurt Mensching on Mar 14, 2010 9:42 PM EDT reply actions

I realize this Kurt....

….I just wanted to know what you and the others thought.

by BennieBladesFan on Mar 14, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions

let me give you an example of what I mean

Bonderman is trying to work on a split finger fastball.

Leyland said about it:

“I want Jeremy to understand that we’re not going to get mad at him if somebody knocks one of those out of the ballpark,” Leyland said. “Down here is the time . . . we’re hoping that the split will take care of the change that he’s never really felt comfortable with. If I threw a splitter like that, I’d want to throw another one.”

So if Bonderman throws the pitch and give up a couple of runs on a home run, his ERA is going to look bad, because the innings are limited. He’s going to look like he’s not a very effective pitcher. But the manager asked him to specifically work on that and is not concerned about the final result in the box score.

Why should you be?

Bless You Boys.com

by Kurt Mensching on Mar 14, 2010 9:53 PM EDT reply actions

JB first needs to command his fastball.

If he can’t do that, he’s toast. Same with Nate, same with Willis, and Perry, and Zoomer. Then, they can start to work on other things. Bondo has always lacked an effective third pitch- a product of calling him up too early when he relied on his power way too much, IMO. Thank DD for that one. Even when he threw a change up, it was almost exclusively against lefties, and he did so in place of his slider too often. If he gets tagged on a pitch that he’s working on, fine. That will happen, but if he’s not locating the fast ball, I’d worry about his stat line.

by Tigerdog1 on Mar 15, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions

but you miss the point

If Leyland is not concerned over the results, then you shouldn’t be. He’s the guy making the decision.

Bless You Boys.com

by Kurt Mensching on Mar 15, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Then why have this conversation?

I’m concerned about many of Leyland’s decisions. I see the futility of Adam Everett, the second worst hitter in the league against RHP’s last year, getting almost 250 plate appearances against RHP’s, and not nearly making up for it defensively. I see Brandon Inge hitting under .190 in July, and again in August, and again in September, yet he plays every game. I see Clete Thomas batting third, when he should be in Toledo. I see a manager making decisions that cost the Tigers a division title.

I’m as aware as anyone that stats in spring training are not all they’re cracked up to be. But I also see decisions made every spring, showing weaknesses in Leyland’s methods going into the season. I’m concerned about that. I’m concerned about Willis, or Bonderman, or Robertson, or Seay, or being given jobs because they make more money than another pitcher, or because they’re out of options. I see Willis every spring, and I’m done with it.

by Tigerdog1 on Mar 15, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions

me thinks you have an excellent fanpost brewing

if you sketch out the problems that come up every year and attempt to get to the root problems behind Leyland’s decision-making.

I also see decisions made every spring, showing weaknesses in Leyland’s methods going into the season.

and I highly recommend you write it and will almost certainly be promoting it to the front page.

Bless You Boys.com

by Kurt Mensching on Mar 16, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions

+1

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by David Tokarz on Mar 16, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions

You're mistaken, though

“we” aren’t the ones making the choices. We only see a tiny bit of all the information that Leyland and the coaches will have when it comes time to make the decsion. They will draw from much more information than we could possibly be aware of. Choices that may seem difficult to us may be much easier with all the facts

by Trysdor on Mar 14, 2010 9:59 PM EDT reply actions

I understand everything about baseball....

…..I grew up playing the game….I just wanted to see what everyone elses opinion is with spring training and if everyone holds every player on the same level as far as performacne goes with the main 30-32 players that will be in consideration to make the team…. As you all know im a fan of Willis and I put huge stock in his spring numbers becasue they were awful last year with a era over 12 but this year its very respectable….However does it matter?…..I know its not a huge factor but I think it is more of a factor with him then JV…..Thats why I think spring games do matter.

by BennieBladesFan on Mar 14, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions