Let's play the blame game: Rangers 5, Tigers 4
The Tigers rallied with two outs in the ninth against a fine rookie closer to make a ballgame out something that probably shouldn't have been one.
Credit goes to a nice at-bat by Ramon Santiago, and back-to-back-to-back hits by Austin Jackson, Johnny Damon and Magglio Ordonez for that.
If those guys hadn't stepped up in the ninth, we would not even have reason to continue with this post.
But the Tigers did tie the score, and poor pitching and questionable decisions followed that resulted in a walkoff loss for Detroit.
So who do we blame? You can't just pin it on one person or one moment. Let's examine the ninth inning a bit closer.
- Fu-Te Ni returns to the mound in the ninth inning in what was a bad idea. After exhibiting questionable control in the eighth inning, a player best used as a lefty one-out specialist came back to the mound in the ninth. On the surface, this looks like a good idea, as he was facing a left-handed batter. But that left-handed batter was Justin Smoak, making his major league debut. He just happens to be one of the top batting prospects in baseball and had walked 16 times in 62 plate appearances in Triple-A this season. So he's got a pretty good eye. Not a good matchup for a guy struggling with command. Ni finished the day with 7 strikes in 19 pitches (subtracting the intentional base on balls here otherwise he was 7 for 23).
- You can blame Ni for doing awful, and you can blame Jim Leyland for enabling him to do so with the game on the line.
- After Smoak was given a free pass and moved to second on a sacrifice, Leyland walked Ryan Garko intentionally. This looks like the standard move. You want to set up the double play. Or do you? Garko was hitless for the season. Why not bring in right-hander Ryan Perry to face the right-hander?
- So Perry comes into the game against the No. 9 batter with two runners already on base. The No. 9 batter just happens to be Nelson Cruz, who was sitting on the bench waiting for just such an opportunity. Cruz has seven home runs and a .329 average this year with a .419 on-base percentage. This is the guy Leyland would rather his reliever face? Or did he just believe Texas manager Ron Washington was going to leave him on the bench?
- In any case, Perry did not get the job done against Nelson, who walked to load the bases. So add Perry to the list of people to blame. And Texas was back to the top of the batting order. Elvis Andrus got the hit to end the game.
So there you have it. Thanks to some nice come-from-behind play by the batters, Ni, Leyland and Perry combined to blow the game. Otherwise Scherzer takes the loss and we have a lot less to complain about.
Obviously it's just one game and there's no reason to dwell further on that fact.
Other notable things:
- Before his key infield single, Jackson struck out three more times. He's now struck out in 16 consecutive games played.
- Max Scherzer didn't pitch the best, but he did strike out seven while allowing eight baserunners. His big mistake was allowing Vladamir Guerrero to take him deep to center field in the first inning. Another run scored on a
balkerror when Alex Avila touched the ball with his catcher's mask. - Brennan Boesch hit a double on the first MLB pitch he ever saw.
- The Tigers outhit the Rangers 10-6 and still found a way to lose.
- Detroit is 3-5 on the road trip and must take the next three to have a winning record on the west coast trip. Obviously I don't think you'd find anyone complaining at taking two of the next three.
Time to move on!
44 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
hi kids
I’m going through photos now, they might not be up tonight but for sure tomorrow morning. fun times tonight despite the loss.
Director of the 2010 Free Casper Wells campaign
No Run Support
Smoak hits switch... learned that myself in the other thread.
So, Ni was in for the 9th to face Smoak (to hit righty for the first time in his MLB career), TREANOR, and BLANCO (who was also going to hit R for the first time on the night).
99% Ni/Perry to blame. 1% Leyland (if I must place any on him).
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Twitter
if your pitcher has no control, you don't send him out into a tie game
against a guy with an excellent eye. Leyland gets blame for enabling it and making things worse.
I guess we could just say Ron Washington outmanaged him though.
by Kurt Mensching on Apr 24, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
But Perry has awesome control.
BB, H. You’re right.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Twitter
hey, no one is absolving Perry here
but fact is, there’s plenty of blame to go around and leyland takes his share too.
by Kurt Mensching on Apr 24, 2010 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I just don't see what else Leyland could've done, I'm sorry.
Certainly trusting Ni in those circumstances shouldn’t be outlandish. And then Perry hurts any arguments that he should have started the inning with the way he pitched himself.
Also consider:
— Perry pitched last night
— Should this game go extras, would you rather have Ni pitching against those guys in the 9th and Perry face the top of the order? Or Perry the bottom of the order and someone like Brad Thomas face the top of the order?
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Twitter
Again with using small sample sizes instead of overall player skill
Seriously- this is not the way to manage a baseball team.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Apr 24, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Just repeating myself over and over:
Smoak: Good hitter no matter the side of the plate.
Treanor: Going to be pinch hit for if no one gets on, will sac bunt if Smoak gets on.
Blanco: Better against LHP than RHP all through minors (lick left/right split at top of the screen, minor league splits is not conducive to linking directly to the page), but was going to be pinch hit for if anyone got on anyways.
No reason for Ni to get the ball in the 9th period. Perry’s control is always going to be his weakness – it was in college and will be in the pro’s – so he gets blame for being erratic. But Leyland’s job is to put the team in the best position to win games, he did not.
IBB of Garko is the wrong move. 1) Why is Garko facing a LHP when he’s strictly a platoon player who – get this – is used against LHP? 2) If you get him out by utilizing the platoon splits to your advantage (why Jim Leyland didn’t do this is beyond me because he over-manages everything else ever in a game) you then have (predictably) Nelson Cruz up with 2 outs where a fly ball – a likely out come considering he only hits the ball on the ground 35% of the time he puts it in play – likely can be caught so long as it stays in the park.
Perry, Ni and Leyland all deserve blame. Ni and Perry failed to do their jobs but absolving Jim Leyland of blame (or giving him 1%) is just dumb. I see no logic behind that what-so-ever. There’s no strategical argument for what he did in the 9th, there’s no numerical argument for what he did in the 9th and there’s no logical argument for what he did in the 9th. I don’t agree with a lot of the things he does, but I can at least see his side of the decision; here, there is nothing that says “hey, I made the right moves” when everything is easily counter-acted by Ron Washington. Call it mis-managing or getting out managed, but Leyland failed just as much as Perry or Ni by putting the Tigers in a worse position to win the game.
My old blog is Tigers By The Numbers.
Now I write at Bless You Boys.
Like music? See what I'm listening to at my Last.fm account.
I agree with all of this completely
I was shocked Ni came back out for the 9th. I said, and I quote, “here comes Nellie at some point.” bleh.
Director of the 2010 Free Casper Wells campaign
No Run Support
also beating a dead horse...
Smoak: 1st MLB game. 0-2. You want to turn him around, just like you would with 99% switch hitters.
Treanor: If Smoak is retired like planned, then maybe you go with Perry here. Smoak wasn’t retired, so Treanor becomes a sacrificial lamb and there’s no point wasting Perry pitches on an automatic sac bunt.
Blanco: Should Ni do his job through the first 2 batters, Rangers probably hit Blanco here with 2 outs and nobody on. Instead, there was a guy on second and Tigers decided to IBB PH Garko. Again, why waste Perry pitches here? Mike argued Perry should’ve relieved Ni and pitched to Garko which I would have been OK with, too, but should Garko get out, Tigers still face PH Cruz in same situation as before — Perry v. Cruz — with same result of a walk (either by IBB or unintentional). Andrus then singles (same result).
Perry, Ni and Leyland all deserve blame. Ni and Perry failed to do their jobs but absolving Jim Leyland of blame (or giving him 1%) is just dumb. I see no logic behind that what-so-ever. There’s no strategical argument for what he did in the 9th, there’s no numerical argument for what he did in the 9th and there’s no logical argument for what he did in the 9th.
It’s not dumb man, it’s flat out logic.. It’s not always about someone’s batting average at night when there’s a single fly flying around and the moon is out. If you can’t trust Ni in those circumstances then we have a whole other issue. The argument I’m hearing is Ni was erratic in the 8th inning yet that’s exactly what Perry is all the time – so how does that make it anymore logical to go with Perry in the 9th — who did NOT help any of your arguments. Leyland went with the pretty simple decision here and it didn’t work out because those pitchers flat out SUCKED. I guess that means enter interminable Leyland haters.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Twitter
You're making things up
All I’ve used in this entire argument is someone’s ground ball % (Nelson Cruz) and someone’s splits as a right handed and left handed batter (well, for both Blanco and Smoak). So if you’d prefer to keep the condescension up then, by all means, keep doing it. These are all things that Jim Leyland has at his disposal.
You don’t turn guys around simply to just turn them around. You turn them around to their worst side of the plate – that’s why Carlos Guillen used to get turned around to the right side. Because he didn’t hit for the power there as he did LH. Smoak and Blanco are better from the right side than the left side. So you’re playing into their strengths.
It’s not logic. Please, list the advantages that Jim Leyland gave to the Detroit Tigers in the 9th inning. Also, what is Fu-Te Ni’s role in the bullpen? Is it middle reliever like Zumaya or Perry, or is a LOOGY – a guy meant to get out primarily left-handed hitters? Well, when you face 2 switch hitters and 1 RHB, that means he’s not facing a LHB at all.
If Smoak gets on, Treanor bunts and Blanco doesn’t see the plate.
If Smoak gets out, Treanor doesn’t see the plate.
There was no way a LHB was getting to the plate in the 9th, rendering Ni’s talents against LHB’s useless because, you know, you need to face LHB’s for those talents to be used properly.
There is no anecdotal evidence supporting your claim (Ni was struggling to throw strikes), no logical evidence supporting your claim (Ni is a LOOGY and there were no LHB’s to get out in the 9th), and no statistical evidence supporting your claim (Smoak + Blanco = better from the right side).
Normally I’ll just diplomatically say “agree to disagree” but you’re just flat wrong here. Leyland was wrong. It’s okay. You don’t have to defend the organization at every turn. Sometimes managers make mistakes and they should be held accountable like, I don’t know, the players.
My old blog is Tigers By The Numbers.
Now I write at Bless You Boys.
Like music? See what I'm listening to at my Last.fm account.
Leyland GENERALLY uses too many pitchers
I think he doesn’t leave well enough alone. He plays the lefty/ righty match ups too much and pulls out pitchers that are in a groove and are effective to replace them for what he thinks is a better match up. Problem is that EVERY time you bring another guy in, there is a decent chance that he just doesn’t have his A game. There is risk in every change, and if a pitcher is doing fine, he should be left the hell alone. THEN, we hear how the pen was used up and Leyland had no choice but to use this guy or that guy in a given situation. He created the situation by over managing.
I think that a huge share of blame has to go once again to Brandon Inge. One out, bases jammed, and he hits into a DP. No freaking concept of putting the ball in play to get the run home. Just hacking away, as usual, and that cost us another couple of runs.
I give the Tigers credit for battling back today. Jackson, Damon, Maggs,and Cabrera all did a nice job.
Even if we do take two of the next three
I will not feel good about this trip.
With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~ Art Hill
You want to play .500 on the road
Winning two of the next three would make the road trip 5-6, and since you can’t go .500 on an odd-numbered road trip I’m okay with that mark.
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Apr 24, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm aware of that
But when we’ve won, it’s been ugly. I haven’t seen this team, especially on this trip, actually play and win a game cleanly. We’re either getting kicked around and losing big, not hitting and losing close, or scraping by and winning ugly.
Yeah, I know the old cliche: “take ’em however you can get ’em.” And that’s true. Sometimes you get lucky and win ugly. But you can’t do that all season and expect to be any good.
With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~ Art Hill
Here's the thing
All our losses have featured horrible Tigers luck. You really think our low average with RISP will continue all season, especially given our high(ish) team OBP and average?
Don’t worry so much- it’ll all work out.
President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Apr 24, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Game....
…..Love the comeback…You cant win every game….This team is going to be ok and have shown they will be in the til September.
by BennieBladesFan on Apr 24, 2010 9:16 AM EDT reply actions
but guess what....
I LOVE THESE GUYS!!!!!!!!! Tiger baseball is my life. That is all.
Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed
.500 and more
I think staying around .500 on this trip would be OK. That’s a good benchmark for road record.
This loss marked the 4th straight one run game. 2-2 in these.
It was good to see Avila, Boesch,Jackson and Sizemore in the lineup. Don’t know how many teams are using 4 rookies.
Tiger tweets @ www.twitter.com/explenture
An impatient optimist not a patient pessimist
I figured he'd do better in the National League
Looks like I was right.
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Apr 24, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
ok...
I’m pretty sure this is the rule that “balk” was based upon…
One base, if a fielder deliberately touches a pitched ball with his cap, mask or any part of his uniform detached from its proper place on his person. The ball is in play, and the award is made from the position of the runner at the time the ball was touched.
I couldn’t remember for sure but that rule seems correct. But anyways, is it a balk or an error? We had a small discussion during the game thread but it’s killing me not having a full distinction. Personally I’m pretty sure it’s an error.
second:
7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance—
(a) To home base, scoring a run, if a fair ball goes out of the playing field in flight and he touched all bases legally; or if a fair ball which, in the umpire’s judgment, would have gone out of the playing field in flight, is deflected by the act of a fielder in throwing his glove, cap, or any article of his apparel;
(b) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately touches a fair ball with his cap, mask or any part of his uniform detached from its proper place on his person. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril;
© Three bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a fair ball. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril.
(d) Two bases, if a fielder deliberately touches a thrown ball with his cap, mask or any part of his uniform detached from its proper place on his person. The ball is in play;
(e) Two bases, if a fielder deliberately throws his glove at and touches a thrown ball. The ball is in play;
These rules are along the same lines as the one that applies to Avila and just leads me further to believe that it is indeed an error.
for anyone else interested in official MLB rules and regulations:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/about_mlb/rules_regulations.jsp
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Strike Three Mechanics
Most media outlets are indeed reporting it as an error now
What I find interesting is that the box score is calling it a missed catch error. I would think it’d be more like a fielding error.
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Apr 24, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I would call it a fielding error as well.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Strike Three Mechanics
yeah it's probably more properly called an error
I’m going to update
by Kurt Mensching on Apr 24, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
that's what Mario said last night
they read the official rule and it was actually an error on Our Lord
Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed
I didn't get a chance to watch the game as I was working late but
The bullpen has been super taxed as of late, with stressful innings too, so I can understand Jimmy trying to squeeze a little extra out of Ni.
Balk call makes it the Umps and Leyland guilty again
Tigers have gotten the bad calls consistently since #163 last year, so that needs to stop in order to get a few wins. Leyland is clueless. How can someone at the big league level management make so many bad judgements on a regular basis. He is costing this team at least 10 losses a year with Bonehead moves that anyone would question. You gotta think before you leave a pitcher in that cant find the plate…WALKS happen and then we lose.
Suppose Ni and Perry had that picture of Misty May-Treanor taped to their lockers after the game?
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Apr 24, 2010 11:45 AM EDT reply actions
BTW
This photo is the perfect visual representation of a balk.
I've had time to gather my thoughts...
at first glance this game was mismanaged, but going through memory I don’t think Jim had much choice to pitch Ni for that second inning. Up to this point our team has had no trouble utilizing our bullpen. Being as our only other option was Brad Thomas, I’m not putting too much fault in Jim Leyland here. His main guys have been seeing too much action lately and he had to try and avoid using them.
HOWEVER….
Not pitching to Garko was a HUGE mistake. That right there was Jim’s managerial mistake and probably the real reason we lost the game.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Strike Three Mechanics
the reason they lost the game
was because Ni and Perry couldn’t throw strikes/Perry gave up a game winning hit. Walking Garko did nothing to change the situation. You can’t really assume they’d get Garko out, but fine, let’s assume Garko gets out. 2 outs. Now Perry still walks Cruz (intentionally now) and then Andrus singles. Outcome doesn’t change.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Twitter
We don't know that Perry approaches Andrus the same way
or that Andrus approaches Perry the same way. Maybe Andrus was only trying to get a sac fly because there was a runner on third with only 1 out. With a runner on second and 2 outs, he would have a completely different approach to trying to get the run in than if it was bases loaded with 1 out.
He had Andrus down 0-2
How else would you want him to approach him? Andrus singled up the middle so he probably wasn’t trying to hit a sac fly. I understand the situation is altered, but it’s minuscule. Perry’s still pitching out of the stretch and he’s facing the same hitter who wound up getting a hit off him.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Twitter
With a runner on second and 2 out...
pitching from the stretch isn’t necessary because no matter what a hit is necessary to win the game in that situation.
However, with the bases loaded Perry still shouldn’t have been pitching from the stretch. (if he even was, I wasn’t paying attention).
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Strike Three Mechanics
With a runner on second and 2 out…
pitching from the stretch isn’t necessary because no matter what a hit is necessary to win the game in that situation.
Uhh, yes it is 100%. You don’t just give him 3rd base and put him 90 feet away from a win as opposed to 180 and a chance to potentially throw him out at home on a single. Not to mention the most important fact that it puts him just a passed ball or wild pitch away, too. Pitching from the windup with a guy only on 2nd base and any number of outs is not really an option.
If the bases are loaded and there are 2 outs, windup is OK but it’s not always encouraged. At that point it’s usually what the pitcher is most comfortable with – often times they stay in the stretch because they’ve been pitching out of it for most of the inning and are used to it.
Detroit Bad Boys- SB Nation's Detroit Pistons Blog
Twitter
the situation is always changed...
because from a mental standpoint, hitting with 2 outs is much different. Especially when your bat is platting the run. Lets also add in the fact that Cruz was pinch hitting, a skill in itself.
My Music: Some Sorta Giant
My Blog: Strike Three Mechanics

by 
























