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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Speculating About the Offseason

Even though we're not even close to being half way through the 2010 season (thankfully), I found my mind wandering earlier today, thinking about what kind of fireworks would go down during the upcoming offseason in Detroit. Plus, without a game tonight due to travel to Seattle, I needed to satisfy my craving for some Tiger baseball. Hit the jump for speculation.

Star-divide

After experiencing an 'interesting' offseason which brought us the likes of Johnny Bravo and the Big Potato, one can't help but wonder what will happen after the 2010 season. Major contracts will expire, thus freeing up tens of millions for Mr. Illitch and DD to spend on the free agent market. (Possibly) Leaving packing their bags and leaving Detroit will be the likes of:

 

 

The Money Side

Keep in mind that the Tigers' 2010 opening day payroll was $133,995,400. Assuming the players in bold will not resign, and the players in italics are possibilities to be brought back, the 2011 payroll is projecting to be anywhere from $85,255,400 to $104,355,400. This means that there will be anywhere from around $29,640,000 to $48,740,000 freed up in exiting players. 

*All salary information obtained from mlbcontracts.blogspot.com*

The Player Side

BInge

I assume that for the sake of the love that we Tiger fans have for Brandon Inge, and his gold glove-caliber defense, DD and Illitch will bring him back on a 1-2 year deal. This has been briefly debated before, but I really can't see us not bringing him back.

Pitching

In terms of pitching, Dontrelle and his massive contract will be jettisoned, and our debt to the Marlins for Nate's contract will be relinquished. However, the big question mark for me is will Jeremy Bonderman be back (presumably at a discounted rate)? He's only 27 years old, crazy I know, and is bouncing back nicely from a few injury-plagued seasons, entering today with a 4.43 ERA and a 1.25 WHIP. He's the kind of veteran guy I wouldn't at all mind having around for a 4th or 5th starter. I think we bring him back at a rate far lower than $12.5 M/year.

Damon/Outfield Scenarios

Will Johnny Damon be back? This is a really intriguing topic for me, because I, like many other fellow Tiger fans, weren't too high on the signing before the season. Though, he's made a big believer and fan out of me due to his great work at the plate. He and AJax have become a great pair of table-setters for Miggy, Maggs, and Boesch, and would like to see their one-two punch return for the 2011 season. However, one has to wonder whether this will happen.

The Boesch-Mobile has arrived in Detroit and is here to stay. While he's found a place in left field as we DH Johnny Bravo and his little league arm, his natural position is right field, where I feel he'll permanently move to eventually since he has a cannon arm and could allow us to DH Maggs more frequently and keep him injury free. Though if we do this, where would Damon fit in? Would we bite the bullet and deal with his lack of defense and plug him into left, or would we allow fellow Michigander Casper Wells to give it the old college try, thus reuniting Boesch and Wells whom had great minor league success together? Or will all aforementioned scenarios be bypassed, and we continue playing Maggs in right, DH'ing Johnny Bravo and playing Boesch in left, landing Casper on the bench of back in Toledo?

I think we will resign Johnny and we will see a similar situation that we have this year as far as the outfield goes; Maggs in right, Boesch in left, AJax becoming a perennial all star in center and Casper getting in where he fits in.

The Infield

I won't try to hide the fact that I'm largely anti-Opie. I mean, I'm sure he's a nice, quality human being, but the guy hits like a high schooler and has a glove that is on a faster decline than the Greek economy. I would like nothing more than to see Razor Ramon get the everyday shortstop role, and Leyland already has run him out there more times this year than last. Therefore, I think the everyday job will be his next year. Who will be the backup you ask? I think a backup by committee wouldn't be all too bad. Donnie can fill in every once in a while and live up to his super-utility man status.

Avila will probably become the everyday catcher, and we may part ways with Laird. However, I feel as though we may bring him back to be a backup.

Provided Carlos Guillen doesn't break down on the side of the road again, I think he'll be the 2nd baseman. I honestly don't see Scott Sizemore coming back anytime soon. I'm liking what Danny Worth is doing: hitting for average, and playing Rock of Gibraltar-solid defense. Obviously, while we're paying Carlos $13M next season, we'll do all we can to run him out there, explaining why he'll probably be the 2nd baseman.

The Bullpen

Our bullpen is about as solid as it gets. Good combination of lefties and righties which makes it tough for opposing lineups with so many combinations we can throw at them. Have a number of pure power arms that hit the upper 90's to 100 and can put a cork on a big inning. Zumaya is consistent at 100, Perry hits 98, I believe I've seen the Big Potato hit 99 this year, and Coke can crank it up to 96. Overall, no moves need to be made here, as we have one of the best, if not the best, bullpens in baseball. The 'pen has only blown 2 saves this season, which is tied for the best in all of MLB with the Houston Astros. One has to wonder if guys like Daniel Schlereth and Robbie Weinhardt will make the jump next year. If so, who gets axed?

Free Agents

Really only one name that jumps out and sparks some interest to me is Jorge Cantu. I've always liked how he handles the bat but I'm really not sure where he would fit in provided we bring Brandon back.

 

What do you guys think? Any criticism/speculation is more than welcomed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.

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We should be able to sign...

…Inge for about 3 to 5 mil and Bondo from anywhere between 5 and 8 depending on how he does…So id say those 2 will resign 8 to 13 mil between them…We will sign a catcher and try and get a guy ike Jason Werth I hope anyway.

by BennieBladesFan on May 24, 2010 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Also Mags Salary...

…Goes down from 18 mil to 15 mil….So another 3 mil in savings,

by BennieBladesFan on May 24, 2010 10:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Technically accurate

However, Maggs’ contract has had $3 mil deferred per annum, so he’ll still make $18 mil next season. (source: Cot’s) Assuming he gets the requisite PA.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 10:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Bound to be more turnover than that

You believe they will part with Laird, Everett, Willis, and a couple of pitchers who aren’t playing because they are hurt or traded? Every year there is a good deal more turnover than that. Look at this year in which the tigs are without Grandy, Nate, Lyon, Rodney, Poly, EJax, the River Thames, and the fleet of backup catchers. I doubt that BInge will be back and I think it iffy that Mags will be (I think it likely that he’ll get hurt and miss the AB to vest his contract). They can fill from within, but DD likes to make a splash so they likely will bid on a mid-range FA for SS. He likely will trade one or more of the MaL or MiL relievers (sell high while you can), perhaps to fill the left side of the infield.

by MR_AZ on May 24, 2010 11:57 PM EDT reply actions  

True

they will be more turnover than what i stated, but as you said DD likes to catch us all by surprise so well have to see and be surprised by who goes this year

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

crawford

I would love to see the tigers take a shot at crawford. while jackson and damon have be a great surprise thus far, imagine jackson followed by crawford. if it is done, you got crawford in left, jackson in centre and boesch in right with maggs DHing. as for the infield, i personally hate inge and turn away every time he comes to bat., but there aren’t that many quality 3b free agents this coming year. SS, go with ramon and a combination of the youngsters with guillen at 2b. and catcher, give avila the full-time job and sign a cheaper veteran. pitchers, there are quite a few available to fill the three of four spot with bonderman moving to 5th. guys like vazquez, sheets, webb could be interesting.

by krymc on May 25, 2010 12:32 AM EDT reply actions  

crawford would be great

I think a new york or boston splurges for him as usual, though. will be interesting to see how it plays out. tampa bay most likely will let him go since they have desmond jennings waiting in the wings. though, crawford is getting up there in age and for a guy that relies on his speed as his primary weapon his value could diminish as his legs get more miles, and a team could be disappointed with the returns they get in a few years from him.

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Crawford!

As great as Werth is, we need another left handed bat.
That being said, if not Crawford, then bring back Damon. He can split time between LF and DH.
We really need to sign a solid SS.
I think you don’t worry as much about the lack of offense at the catcher spot and third base if you get a short stop that can both hit and field.
Jose Reyes seems interesting to me because he is having a down year by his standards. Beyond Reyes though there really isn’t much out there.
I hate to say resign Inge but if it is at a big discount then why not. I fail to understand why people love the career .230 batter to death. However, his glove is solid and the F/A class at third base isn’t very strong. Especially since A. Ramirez seems to be falling of the face of the earth.
It will be interesting to see what happens though. I think Mr Illitch is hungry for a championship and he might spend more cash than reports suggest.

by JAYRC on May 25, 2010 1:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

If you can get Reyes you do it

But the odds of that are tiny.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 25, 2010 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

(lays on Reyes horn)

DO ITTTTTT… and yes, the odds are tiny

VP of Membership, Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by JoelZumayaKegStand on May 25, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

btw I just drooled a little thinking...

about a batting order like this

1) Reyes SS
2) Ajax CF
3) Maggs RF/DH
4) Miggy 1B

asofinasfanksf

VP of Membership, Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by JoelZumayaKegStand on May 25, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reyes had a great game last night

judging by the 15 second clip of the Mets game I saw on Sportscenter.

by handsomerob1 on May 27, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree lefty Crawford over Werth but......

Cliff Lee should be far and away #1 objective. Filling spot of Willis gives Tigers greatest improvement

by GARYAESCH on May 26, 2010 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Call me crazy,

but I think Damon and Miner come back (remember JL loves Miner). Boesch will come down to Earth and Guillen will retire when he fails to stay healthy being the full time DH (after he gets hurt on his first play at 2B). DD will then make a big splash and trade for a big time SS like Hanley Ramirez and … wait, I’ll call myself crazy.

by 77bestrookieclassever on May 25, 2010 7:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Shortstop

I like Santiago but with all the money coming off the books I’d expect Detroit to go after whoever the top free agent shortstop on the market is next year. Anyone know who that’s going to be? I already know there won’t be a ton of starting pitchers available, but that’s another spot where Illitch should battle the Yankees for whoever the #1 guy available is. Otherwise we’re pretty well set in-house.

by Sutelc on May 25, 2010 8:29 AM EDT reply actions  

the SS market is near bare on the FA side

however, a Reyes trade (TOOT REYES TOOT TOOT) or something similar around the trade deadline would be an amazing pickup…. Check it out here: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/09/2011-mlb-free-agents.html

VP of Membership, Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by JoelZumayaKegStand on May 25, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Expect the unexpected.

I seem to get a “Huh?” pretty regularly during the off season.

Delaware Gary

by DelTigerFan on May 25, 2010 9:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Cantu handle 3B?

He sure can hit but how good of a 3B is he? Cantu has a better chance than Crawford coming to Detroit because the Red Soxes and Yanks are already set at 3B. Crawford or Cliff Lee would be my first pick. Tigers could use another starter. I do expect a trades even at this year tradelines.

by Barry2 on May 25, 2010 9:19 AM EDT reply actions  

What if...

We traded AJax for a high quality SS, the put Wells out there. He’s a solid defender in CF, and can mash. It might not be popular to dump your star CF two years in a row, but I think Wells is just about on par with Jackson, and we are desperate at SS/3B.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on May 25, 2010 9:24 AM EDT reply actions  

2nd part

The second part of that is, if we traded 1-2 OFs (Jackson & Boesch?), we could then have room in the OF to sign a Werth or Crawford or whoever…

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on May 25, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think wells...

…could bring in more then Ajax.

by BennieBladesFan on May 25, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

VP of Membership, Casey Crosby Fanclub.

by JoelZumayaKegStand on May 25, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't call Jackson a "star CF" yet.

but I agree on the trading thing. I think it works out only in our favor.

by madpoopz on May 25, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

maybe

it is his abbreviation for “starting”

by MarkL on May 27, 2010 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

We actually have prospects to trade too.

I’m thinking primarily of Wilken Ramirez, who’s just being wasted in AA, but isn’t going to be called up any time soon.

by HawkeyeEdward on May 25, 2010 9:49 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree

Wilken has been hitting well this year so far in Toledo, though he’s still striking out alot. I hope we move him before the deadline and get a starter. Too many quality outfielders in the system, so he won’t be getting a call anytime soon. Might as well get something back for him

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Werth all the way!

I think they will sign a decent short stop or catcher. You can live with one of these being an offensive liability but not both. Hell i’d be happy if we had a catcher and a short stop that could both hit .240 at this point. If Bondo and Inge do well I could see them getting 2 year deals at reduced rates.

by Bulvine on May 25, 2010 9:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Retention

I’m not buying as much retention as this post is predicting. The guys we might want to re-sign (Bondo, Inge?, Damon) are total free agents, capable of signing with whatever team they wish for whatever contract they wish. Statistically, we have a 1 in 30 chance of signing them. I agree that Inge may lean toward the Tigers, but I don’t know the man personally. Maybe he wants a change of scenery…maybe the O’s want a 3B and it gets him close to home…who knows. Maybe Inge has always had dreams of the West Coast and bails…maybe someone agrees to pay him 2 million more than us or offers him a 4 year deal. I really think our upcoming free agents should be considered free agents. I think that Damon will hold less loyalty than Inge or Bondo and I think it’s highly probably the Bondo (if he continues his decent 2010) could very well cash in better elsewhere.

by momotigers on May 25, 2010 10:14 AM EDT reply actions  

you say that theres a 1 in 30 chance of resigning them...

but you all state other factors such as money, deal length, and location. Doesn’t that make the odds for various teams greater or less than 1 in 30? Don’t things like tenure on this team, having a great owner, a competitive team, and a great fan base increase our chances of resigning players beyond 1in 30?

by madpoopz on May 25, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking the same thing.

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Outfield

I can’t see our organization paying big bucks for an outfielder; Crawford, Werth, or otherwise. The strength of our organization, position-wise, is the outfield. We’ve got Jackson, Maggs, and Boesch on the radar for next year. We also have Wells, Streiby, Raburn (ugh!), and Wilkin Ramirez.

I’m not sure which SS are on the market, but I don’t think it’s a strong class. I think you’ll see Santiago, Worth, Dlugach, Guillen, and Sizemore as middle infielders. The first three all have enough glove to play SS and will provide us decent defense while meeting or exceeding this years offensive (Long O sound, stress the 2nd syllable) production from SS. One or two of those guys will obviously end up in Toledo or elsewhere, but I think 3 or 4 of them will be with the big squad.

3B will be interesting…I think a one or two-year offer to Inge is in the works, but I don’t know if he’ll accept. Without him and with the weak class at 3B, we may try to promote from within using Worth or Larish or maybe someone from AA (is Ciriaco playing 3B?). Beyond that, Cantu is reasonable or another similar player.

I see them signing a SP and C (perhaps a backup if they hand the job to Avila).

by momotigers on May 25, 2010 10:26 AM EDT reply actions  

Im not sure Avila....

…is the long term answer…He may be for the next couple years becasue he is under team control…He just hasnt shown much more then Laird has.

by BennieBladesFan on May 25, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

He really hasn't hit

like we thought he would. I’ve been disappointed as well

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Avila is lord like everyone thinks (I know, cast me into an abyss)...

but I also think that he can play at the major league hitting fairly well for a defense first position. He won’t be Pudge by any stretch but he handles the pitching staff well and can defend quite well. His bat will come around to at least adequate and maybe beyond.

by madpoopz on May 25, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

3 players I would love to see the Tiger target...

It’s no secret I am no fan of our current slugging duo of Laird and Avila. Hence, even with his age, I would love to see us target Victor Martinez. (unless they resign or already have resigned him) He calls a great game and hits for average and power. He alone would make the Tigers 4-5 games better, easily. Resigning Damon is super important! IMO Damon is less selfish and a better team player than Crawford, and hits a better avg. His noodle arm is justified by the DH, platooning with Maggs there. (Crawford is acceptable to me as a swap here as well) Lastly, sign Cliff Lee. With that signing, we easily become the best rotation in the AL central. Verlander, Lee, Porcello, Bondo (assuming we resign him), and Max. I would be thrilled with 2 of the 3 of these moves.

by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on May 25, 2010 10:49 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I wouldn't think more.

Close to the same price tag, but if we could lock him in for 3-4 years with Verlander pitching in front of him and Porcello and Max behind him, I may just creme my pants. Think and dream: Verlander, Lee, Porcello, Max, Bondo! Mmmmm.

by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on May 25, 2010 11:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Really?

First of all, I’m not sure you can quantify how well Martinez “calls” a game. But what you can quantify is the fact that he is, bar none, the worst MLB catcher in terms of throwing out would-be basestealers. It’s like the Penn Relays on the bases with that guy back there. And his bat is in pretty obvious decline anyway. Abort.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 11:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

In case you question his 'calling' ability

I remember he called the games for back to back Cy Young winners in Cle. Sure the pitcher is the key, but he handles Lee and Sabathia pretty well. His bat is fine, just hit a slump. Didn’t you say the same thing about Maggs last year? A track record speaks louder than 42 games to start a season. Plus he is the best available and much better than our options. Have Laird back him up and start against running teams, simple answer to your problem.

by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on May 25, 2010 11:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Actually, no

I gave Maggs all of the benefit of the doubt in the world. That’s apples/oranges anyway since Magglio is an OF. With the rare exceptions of guys named Pudge (both of them) or Posada, catchers generally decline earlier and quicker than the other positions. Not saying that VMart hasn’t been an excellent hitter, but I’m willing to wager his best days are behind him. And he’ll likely command a pretty hefty paycheck relative to the production he’ll provide.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 11:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

WAR

You mentioned Vic would automatically make the Tigers 4 or 5 games better. So far this year, according to Fan Graphs, Vic’s been worth about .4 Wins above Replacement, while Gerald has been worth about -.4. Looking at the last few years for both and and adjusting those numbers (eyeballing it and only doing so because you said Martinez is simply slumping), it’s safe to say that Martinez is probably worth about 2-3 wins above replacement, while Laird will end up around .5. I’m being pretty generous with Martinez’s projection and a little conservative with Laird’s (he was worth 1.5 wins last year).

Even doing so, it would be very hard for the Tigers to swallow the price tag for a guy who’s terrible defensively and at a position where offense declines pretty rapidly. My guess is he won’t really bring many wins to the Tigers, but will cost them a whole lot more money.

by The Birchman on May 25, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

it just doesn't make sense to me

I realize adding a bat is an exciting thought considering the terrible state of our current bottom of the lineup, but signing vmart makes absolutely no sense to me in the overall improvement of the tigers. adding a bat at shortstop or third(cantu please) would provide all of the same benefits offensively that we could get from martinez if not better. In any lineup you will have a guy or two that is a slight offensive liability, and imo using that on a catcher with intangibles of defense and personality are much more important when building a championship contender. One that is a threat to attempt steals on, as well as a leader that the pitching staff believes in. You can find a bat on the free agent market for any of your offensive holes, and its a much safer organization decision to use those elsewhere.

by NaptownTigers on May 25, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

No on Martinez...

I personally think he’s over rated especially for a position that should always be defense first.

by madpoopz on May 25, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not to say defensw shouldn't be first...

however, he seems the best move. Lord knows we cannot keep tossing Laird and Avila back there with their SUB .200 batting averages….

by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on May 25, 2010 11:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

why not?

if you upgrade your offense at the other holes you can afford it. Not everybody on your team is gonna be a great hitter but you upgrade offensively at SS and 3b before you start thinking about making sure that catcher is one of your better hitting positions.

by madpoopz on May 25, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

See my post

Right above this thread regarding their respective WAR’s (only because that was mentioned in the first post of the previous thread).

Martinez would cost too much money and really wouldn’t bring enough of an upgrade to warrant it. I agree that C is a position that a lot of teams can swallow having a terrible offensive catcher as long as the play good defense — Martinez would be much worse defensively and who knows how the bat will hold up.

by The Birchman on May 25, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

A note

Miner is guaranteed to be back. He is hitting his second arbitration year and is not FA eligible until after the 2012 season.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 11:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

by horrible you mean

.258 avg 6 hr 20 rbi? You do realise that’s about the same avg if you ADD Laird and Avila togeather, more HR than adding them togeather and same with the rbis, right? I will take it in a heart beat, plus he will swing for a better avg. by year end he should be closer to .300.

by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on May 25, 2010 11:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

BBFan

you like the idea of Victor calling our games? I personally wouldn’t be happier.

by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on May 25, 2010 11:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

go for it

guys still a good catcher, even if he doesn’t throw out the runners as often. some of that is on the BOS pitchers – who are almost all terrible in holding runners.

anyway, i like the move. bring in Victor to the already semi-Venezuelan clubhouse (Guillen, Maggs, Miggy, ‘Mando) and he’s probably comfortable from the get go. plus, we’ve got a young catcher brought up because of a bat – same as Victor – who he can hopefully help mentor. i’d go for 2 years.

but it’s all tempered by cost. so long as it’s somewhat reasonable considering his production…

by GreatGooglyMoogly on May 25, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

No way

With the teams in our division, singles would automatically be turned into doubles when [insert player here] got on base and stole second. Martinez is washed up, I want no part of him in a Tigers uniform.

by handsomerob1 on May 25, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe at DH/1B

But I agree: V-Mart cannot throw out runners. For a team that will likely continue to rely on pitching and eaking out low-scoring wins, you can’t concede stolen bases in the late innings of those close 3-2/4-3 games.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on May 25, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Catcher is defense first.

period. and I’m gonna keep reiterating it.

by madpoopz on May 25, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

then in future game threads, please do the same

when avila/laird gidp for the bajillionth time, just reitterate (sp) that his .180 avg is because he is defense first… bottom line is we have to get better production from 6-9 in the lineup!

by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on May 25, 2010 11:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

fine.

and when Laird or Avila actually manage to keep a runner out of scoring position or stop a pitch from becoming wild I’ll say “look at that run they just kept from scoring.”

But I’m not saying that Laird or Avila are our best options, I’m saying that you’re disregarding defense at a key defensive position too much. I’d be perfectly happy with a catcher hitting .230 – .250 with pretty good defense.

by madpoopz on May 25, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then we agree that we need a better bat, with decent defense.

Because Laird and Avila are not that bat, unfortunantly. Same with SS and 3B, we need to hit a little better, because a sub 220 clip from the combined 6-9 hitters this year is putride…

by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on May 25, 2010 11:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You're right about the offense

But I don’t think you’ll get enough of an upgrade in the form of Martinez and it’s easy to accept because MOST teams have bad hitting catchers. It’s a position that, like mad has mentioned, tends to be defense first.

The problem is Bingo’s been awful with the bat this year and that’s a position that an offensive upgrade is much more likely/valuable.

by The Birchman on May 25, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you

If Alex Avila lands up hitting .270 with 15 homers, nobody complains. Can we please wait until at least the end of the season before ending his career?

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 25, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heck no

Also, it appears as though Scott Sizemore’s career is over as well, at least according to many fan opinions/projections.

by baum on May 25, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scott Sizemore is done!

I don’t get how this rumor started or why people keep spouting such premature death knells for Scott’s career but I want no part of it.

Dontrelle Willis apologist.

by 13194013 on May 25, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Baum was being sarcastic

At least I hope he was.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 25, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was definitely being sarcastic

There is no one who is more of an apologist for Sizemore than me. I can’t wait until he is back up.

by baum on May 27, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good to hear

We need more Sizemore apologists. The numbers are dwindling.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 27, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still like Sizemore...

and want him to get another shot, but his lack of hustle at times made me put him on a shorter leash.

by madpoopz on May 27, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sizemore back to 300 at toledo

<<apologist, strong arm, third base oportunity next year

by Gates Brown on May 29, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

The big question is what will the Tigers target payroll be for 2011.

If I had to guess i’d say $110 million give or take $5 million. But that still leaves room to sign some talented players.

by Bulvine on May 25, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Anybody would be happy with Lee

He’s probably going to get close to a $100 mil contract, though. I’m not sure the Tigers would be willing to invest that kind of coin, particularly after JV’s deal. That would be a dynamite rotation, though.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 11:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Illitch did it with the Wings before

who is to say him and DD don’t go balls out for the, IMO, top FA in next years class…

by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on May 25, 2010 11:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

oh I agree

the odds of him in the old english d are slim, but fun to think about :)

by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on May 25, 2010 11:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

very true.

I salivate at the idea of JV/Lee 1-2 punch.

by madpoopz on May 25, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Of course you still need to score

the M’s aren’t exactly setting the world on fire with the Hernandez/Lee duo.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 12:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Me too

but I like winning more.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 12:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah

A rotation like this would be sick-nasty:

1. JV
2. C-Lee
3. Porcello
4. Scherzer
5. Turner

And we would have them all locked up for 3-5 years. That would be amazing.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on May 25, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Turner!

Can we please stop projecting Turner for anything but the 2012 (or 2013) rotation?

by MR_AZ on May 26, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you

For doing my job.

STOP IT. Remember- it’s Turner in 2012!

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 27, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

drop Bondo,Willis and Robertson $$of 34 mil

Lee will be roughly half that (per year) and nearly double the results. JV , Lee, Porcello, Max and Bonine/Gallaraga. Then go out and sign Opie’s cousin to play SS i think his name is Eny-Juan-bu Everett.

by GARYAESCH on May 26, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Would anyone be happy making a trade for Lee now/soon?

Trading away a good pitching prospect and two good positional prospects for the rest of the year and hopes of signing long term? Even if we couldn’t sign him, he is going to be a type A, so there would be compensation.

by baum on May 25, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't trade for Lee unless it was a real tight pennant race.

Even then, I probably wouldn’t deal with the M’s when a lesser, but still fine pitcher in Oswalt, could be had for cheaper (though his contract is bigger).

Dontrelle Willis apologist.

by 13194013 on May 25, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oswalt's contract is an albatross compared to his actual production at this point

I had a friend who is a Mariners fan try to convince me that we should trade Avila, Sizemore, and a few lesser prospects for Lee, though.

by baum on May 27, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

In a general sense

I hope the Tigers avoid any big $ free agents this offseason. That’s just setting up another round of bad contract oblivion down the road.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 12:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

right now it's ok to be unreasonable I think.

lots of things will change by the time the off season gets here.

by madpoopz on May 25, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rant time

First off, do we actually have evidence that Adam Everett’s defense is declining? I’m not an Opie fan by any means, but I don’t want to turn into ESPN who just makes up story after story because it’s convenient (not directed at the BYB writing staff in any way, keep up the good work guys). Yeah, Opie sucks something awful behind the plate but it’s not why he was signed in the first place. If we can find actual concrete evidence that he’s declining in the field, then there’s no reason to keep him.

As for the whole Victor Martinez talk: NO. Putting VMart behind the plate would turn Denard Span (and basically any other reasonably fast guy in the division) into Rickey Henderson on the basepaths. I don’t care how well he “calls” games. If you listen to Mario and Rod, Laird does a pretty fair job at calling games himself. Both him and Avila are miles ahead of Martinez defensively and both (yes, even Laird) have much more tread left on their tires than Martinez does.

Inge and Bondo will likely both be re-signed because I don’t see other teams taking a big chance on either guy. Inge is about six months removed from major knee surgery, while Bondo is coming back from a serious injury himself. There’s no reason to think they won’t be back next year at discounted rates.

We saw so much turnover last offseason because the goal was to get younger and cheaper. Other than continuing to do that by getting rid of more bad contracts, there probably won’t be too many big splashes. There may be a couple of head scratchers from DD, but odds are they will be cheap head scratchers.

by handsomerob1 on May 25, 2010 12:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Cheaper is better

And Opie, for all his faults, is cheap. On the other hand, so is Dlugach. We’ll see.

Inge and Bondo seem likely to stay. However, if Bondo continues to be strong, he may be attractive on the FA market. He has said before that he’d like to return to the West at some point — Seattle is closest to home. And there are some great places to pitch out west in general, in both the leagues.

3B has gotten remarkably thin in general, not just for upcoming free agents. Inge seems to want to stay, but there may be more interest in him than you’d think. With a lot of teams thinking they might have to make do at 3B, DD might just swoop in and pull of some unexpected deal at that position.

I think whatever Carl Crawford gets will be a little too much. I hope we stay out of that sweepstakes. Same with Werth.

by cloud wall on May 25, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, to cherry-pick a bit

Everett’s UZR/150 at this point is higher than it’s been since ‘06. So that’s good. He kind of falls victim, IMO, to not having the “wow” factor defensively. He doesn’t often have Web Gems or an arm that makes you drop your jaw, so people think he’s lost something, even though that’s not necessarily the case.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 12:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Really good defensive players make things look routine.

Web gems usually come from having less range, being out of position and needed to do something extra to make a play a better defensive player would make without too much fuss. This is not an absolute but a general thing.

Dontrelle Willis apologist.

by 13194013 on May 25, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Everett's pre-pitch positioning is great

I was talking about the perceptions of (some) fans that he’s lost a step defensively, when that is not at all true. He is, and always has been, a guy who knows how to be in the right spot.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 3:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

This is what I mentioned too

I think that people are extending their dislike for Opie to claiming that he’s getting worse defensively. Regardless of whether I want him on the team next year or not, you have to give him credit for still playing well defensively.

by handsomerob1 on May 26, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agree on completely on V-Mart. NO WAY.

More likely he leaves Boston after this season and moves to 1B/DH.

by ryan_matthews28 on May 25, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is this Scott Boras? Haha

Reasonable possibility that had not crossed my mind. He is on a 1-year $9 million contract with the Red Sox, with a $5 million player option for next season. I imagine he won’t pick that up if stays around where he has been on both sides of the ball for the rest of the season. Probably would take a 3-year deal to get him though (somewhere around 3 years/$21-28 million).

by ryan_matthews28 on May 25, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

2011 Roster

1) Austin Jackson CF
2) Carlos Guillen 2B
3) Magglio Ordonez RF/DH
4) Miguel Cabrera 1B
5) Jayson Werth LF (5 years/ $90 million)
6) Brennan Boesch RF/DH
7) Alex Avila C
8) Brandon Inge 3B (2 years/ $7.5 million)
9) ? SS

Utility:
Santiago
Raburn
Wells
Kelly

SPs:
Verlander
Porcello
Scherzer
Bonderman (2 years/ $15 million)
? 5th Starter

RPs:
Valverde
Zumaya
Perry
Coke
Ni
Schlereth
Bonine

I have a feeling that Dombrowski will go after Werth hard in large part because there really are no other great fits in the upcoming FA class or the 2012 offering (at least when I glanced through the list). Cabrera will be 28 years old next season and you can expect his peak years to go through the age of 33/34, same with Verlander. That gives the Tigers a 6-7 year window as of today to get this team a WS victory (of course a lot could change between now and then, but with the current players on our roster I find this reasonable).

Maggs has been solid at the #3 spot so far this year and I’m optimistic that he can produce around that level through the 2011 season (maybe even back on a 1-year deal on ’12), but if the Tigers are truly serious about making a run to the WS we need another big bat. Werth fits that profile. His age and adjustment to the AL I suppose would be the largest concerns. As far as re-signing Inge and Bonderman, it makes sense as of right now, but a lot could change by October.

by ryan_matthews28 on May 25, 2010 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't know that you go all-in on Werth

OF seems to be one spot where there is some organizational depth. The more pressing need is going to be the left side of the IF.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 12:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

This is why I'm curious as to why no one mentions Adrian Beltre

You keep the defense that Inge provides, and then add a better bat. Seems to make a lot of sense (outside of alienating all of the Inge fans, lol), that is if he wouldn’t be asking for an insane contract.

As far as SS goes, if someone doesn’t fall into your lap in a trade (I highly doubt Reyes would ever be available), you just roll with what you’ve been rolling with.

by ozymandius1024 on May 25, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great point

If anyone could appease the Inge fans, it would be the only other comparable 3B defender in the game: Beltre.

He would certainly be an interesting add. Though I would be truly sad to see Inge move on from the D.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on May 25, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know...

you get all the same problems, plus a guy who’s work ethic/intensity people have questioned over the years, in contrast to Inge. I think you’ll have a situation a la Chicago last year where people can’t believe you got rid of kind of overrated/overpaid Mark DeRosa for even shittier/higher cost Milton Bradley.

by cloud wall on May 25, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Reasonable possibility that had not crossed my mind. He is on a 1-year $9 million contract with the Red Sox, with a $5 million player option for next season. I imagine he won’t pick that up if stays around where he has been on both sides of the ball for the rest of the season. Probably would take a 3-year deal to get him though (somewhere around 3 years/$21-28 million).

by ryan_matthews28 on May 25, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cannot rec this post enough

It’s always an excellent idea to give a guy coming off a career year a nice fat contract.

by ozymandius1024 on May 25, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

According to MLB Park Factors...

1 (most hitter friendly) – 30 (least hitter friendly)

Comerica/Citizen’s Bank
’10: 18 / 24
’09: 13 / 12
’08: 5 / 15
’07: 12 / 13

by ryan_matthews28 on May 25, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

How is that possible?

"All aboard!"
Boesch Bandwagon Conductor

by trross1200 on May 25, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

I’d also check this out: http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/parkadjust.shtml

Over 100 favors batters, under 100 favors pitchers.

PHI multi-year: Batting- 102 Pitching- 101
DET multi-year: Batting- 103 Pitching- 103

Philly is NOT a bandbox. The park has been near the median while Utley, Howard, Rollins, Werth, Ibanez, and Burrell have been raking the last couple of years.

by ryan_matthews28 on May 25, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Citizen's Bank Park is a HR park

Constantly ranks in the top 5 for HR allowed, if I am not mistaken, up there with US Cellular and Great American Smallpark. A lot of Werth’s perceived value is in HR. Now, his home/road splits are pretty consistent so it’s not a huge concern. His being 32 is, however.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 2:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Couldn't agree more.

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

the only way signing werth wouldn’t make me cry is if he put up fantastic numbers for a season, we win a championship and we trade his ass to for some great third base prospects from another organization since we clearly are awful at scouting this position ourselves

by NaptownTigers on May 25, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I enter into evidence exhibits A and B...

Gary Sheffield and Carlos Guillen. Both aging players coming off of good years given bloated contracts which killed any hope of roster flexibility.

"All aboard!"
Boesch Bandwagon Conductor

by trross1200 on May 25, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't want Werth.

He’s too old for a long term contract.
He’ll cost too much money.
Plus we’ll loose another draft pick.

He’s the exact kind of FA that I want us to avoid.

by linuxit on May 25, 2010 1:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree

I don’t like the idea of signing older free agents as temporary fixes. I’d rather find a young guy we can grow and have stick around for a while at a lower rate than a declining guy. I really hate losing draft picks as well.

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, what guys are these?

If you haven’t noticed we’ve been investing a lot of our early round draft picks on starting pitchers and relievers lately. I really don’t think Casper Wells and Wilkin Ramirez are going to put us over the top offensively to be honest. They are much more likely to be utility/platoon guys. David Tokarz has already covered Boesch.

by ryan_matthews28 on May 25, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the jury is still out on Boesch

He has flaws, obviously, but we may be discounting the fact that his power surge from last year is for real. If he can post an average OBP but hit 30-ish HR? You could do worse.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 3:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Boesch's ISO Increases...

I swear I read somewhere (FanGraphs I thought, but searched to no avail) that a jump in ISO by a younger player usually means the increase in power can and should be sustainable. His ISO has jumped 100 points (and remained there) from his 21-23 year old seasons to his 24 and 25 year old seasons (from ~.130 to ~.235). I can’t remember the specifics of the article, and if I find it, I’ll reply to this post, but with the jumps in ISO that Boesch has shown (if I’m right about this article I read) then it’s safe to say his power is for real.

by The Birchman on May 25, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

He won't hit 30 HR

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 25, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

ISH! 30-ish.

He hit 28 in a shorter season (albeit in a hitter’s league). 25-30 = not impossible.

by ChrisDTX on May 28, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

But improbable.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 28, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously, the best hope we have for a run producer in the system is Ryan Streiby if he stays healthy. Daniel Fields looks more like a tablesetter and Avisail Garcia is too far away to predict. I mean, Casper Wells might make an okay #5, and maybe Wilkin Ramirez turns into Nelson Cruz in a few years, but the odds are slim.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 25, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you're willing to throw $20 million per year at Jayson Werth?

He’s going to get ridiculous money for not-so ridiculous production. Let’s keep it in house and give the kids a chance, especially when they’re protected by Cabrera.

by handsomerob1 on May 26, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Meh

Never said that. I’d like Worth, but not for 20MM a year for 4 years. But we need a couple free agent bats- there’s got to be a better option not named Johnny Damon.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 26, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

We also need draft picks

Another reason to not go after Werth or any other semi-big fish that will be Type A guys.

by handsomerob1 on May 26, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good point

I’d rather re-sign Damon and keep the picks.
Besides, Damon has been doing quite well, as many of us expected. He’s a great #2 hitter.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on May 26, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

And you have convinced me sir

Well played.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 27, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

That was the easy part

the hard part is convincing DD to draft something other than a reliever who hits 96+

by handsomerob1 on May 27, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't remind me

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 27, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm fine with pitchers

But if we select another f*cking reliever with a pick in the first 5 rounds he better turn into Mariano f*cking Riviera or I’m putting a chair through a wall, Billy Beane style.

I’M SICK OF F*CKING RELIEVERS

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 28, 2010 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I really don't have a clue

I’m just going to keep crossing my fingers for Daniel Fields to pan out. Seems to me to be another B.J. Upton type-guy

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Though he would project to be

 more of a top-of-the-order type guy. I’m pretty curious to see what Casper Wells can do though. Would be great if the solution could be inside the organization.

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can we get Inge back as a catcher?

He can platoon with Avila and leave room for someone like Cantu at 3B

by johnnygre on May 25, 2010 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

No.

He’s a 3B now and when he was last moved back to catcher he was awful.

Dontrelle Willis apologist.

by 13194013 on May 25, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

not with those creaky knees

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Convince me Werth is not Burrell v 2.0

I’m a little leery about what Werth will be in a different park. They aren’t great comps, especially plate-discipline-wise, but the last fly ball hitting righty OF to leave Philly in his early 30s sure didn’t do well. Werth has a less scary platoon split, and is hugely better with the glove, but I don’t see how you can advocate spending big money on him. If we were talking about 3/$30 I’d be interested. But we’re not. Save the big money for Cliff Lee.

I’m not super-enamored with Cantu, either. His bat is good, not great, and his glove is pretty bad at third. If not Inge, I would take a long look at buying low on Bill Hall or Jhonny Peralta or getting a cheapo guy like Felipe Lopez or Juan Uribe. Maybe even take a shot at Aramis Ramirez if his value continues to plummet?

by theRPS on May 25, 2010 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Simple

Werth has actual athletic ability. Burrell is a statue.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 3:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

He catches the ball well

I’m not sure that has a lot to do with the bat, though

by theRPS on May 25, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was just struck with a thought

The Rockies hate Chris Ianetta, who happens to be a more than serviceable big-league catcher. DD needs to get on the phone and dial 1-303-something something.

by ChrisDTX on May 25, 2010 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

That doesn't mean they stopped hating him

it just means they stopped being quite so stupid about it. That kidney-stones guy is still the starter, right?

by cloud wall on May 25, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Olivo has gone back to hitting like garbage

So I’m pretty sure it’ll be Iannetta’s job when he gets back.

by ozymandius1024 on May 25, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anybody see

Khalil Greene as a short-term solution, at least until someone in the minors pans out or a better FA class?

Why does "lisp" have an S in it? That's just cruel.

by fordfan5000 on May 25, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I was wondering that as well

before the season started. some team scooped him up but released him again. cant remember who

B.Inge's facial hair advisor.
Driver of the Brennan Boesch Bandwagon

by BrianCMU. on May 25, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Texas got him

then released him before spring training even started.

by johnnygre on May 25, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or maybe an Omar Infante return to Detroit?

Just throwin’ around ideas.

Why does "lisp" have an S in it? That's just cruel.

by fordfan5000 on May 25, 2010 4:39 PM EDT reply actions  

No.

Schuerholz would convince DD to give up Jacob Turner and an outfield prospect for him. Then he would suck horribly. These are the facts.

by cloud wall on May 25, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean Frank Wren?

In any case, Wren swung the Edgar Renteria deal. So it’s not impossible.

by ozymandius1024 on May 25, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chone Figgins

I realize it is very early in Mr. Figgins’ contract, but with the Mariners already 8 games back, I wonder if a trade for Chone could be worked out either midseason this year or in the offseason… IF we were to let Inge walk (which I have very mixed feelings about), Figgins could be a good trade to pursue. He is owed a ton of money, and we will have a ton of money to spend. He plays 3B/2B, we need help at 3B.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on May 26, 2010 4:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Depends on what the M's want

His speed would be nice, and he’s a good plug at 2B (or maybe even SS?) if Inge re-signs.

by handsomerob1 on May 27, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

SS

Would be awesome. I think that between Sizemore and The Guillen Experiment we should be ok at 2B. But mostly I’d be interested in him for 3B if DD was going to let Ingey walk.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on May 27, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not a bad idea for 3B as well

but with the barren 3B/SS market, Figgins’ versatility makes him that much more valuable.

by handsomerob1 on May 27, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about Hanley?

Methinks DD has the phone number to the marlins.

by MR_AZ on May 27, 2010 12:22 AM EDT reply actions  

NO

Too expensive and would absolutely gut the farm.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 27, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd gut the farm

for Hanley.
1. jackson
2. damon
3. hanley
4. miggy
5. mags
6. guillen
7. boesch
8. inge
9. avila

I’d take that all day. And pull off a Lee signing. Nice!!!

by jeremy j on May 27, 2010 7:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Problem is

Remove Boesch and Avila from that lineup. They’re probably in FL.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 27, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is true

Kiss Crosby and/or Turner goodbye too

B.Inge's facial hair advisor
Rod Allen's humor consultant

by BrianCMU. on May 28, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both

It’s HANLEY RAMIREZ. He’s an equal hitter to Miggy at a premium position on a team friendly deal- and he’s just entering his prime. If I’m the Marlins, I ask for Turner/Crosby/Boesch/Avila/Sizemore/Scherleth and a couple young relievers. AT LEAST.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 29, 2010 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

How about

Scherzer/Gallaraga/Oliver/Ramirez/Avila/Raburn/Sizemore/Schlereth/Voss

by johnnygre on May 29, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not enough

Galarraga/Raburn/Voss are junk, and there’s only one potenital top prospect there.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 29, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

My thought was

Scherzer for Crosby
Oliver for Turner
Ramirez for Boesch
Avila, Sizemore, Schlereth as you said, Voss as one of the extra relievers, Raburn because he could be usefull as a pinch-hitter in the NL and Galarraga for emphasis.

I guess Armando lost his trade value during spring training when he lost the battle for the rotation.
But would you consider Raburn a lost cause?

by johnnygre on May 30, 2010 6:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

The thing is

You’d have to give up TOP prospects. The only one that meets that definition is Scherzer. So not quite enough.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 30, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about...

Dontrelle for Hanley.

I like this trade because we win big and I like to dream.

by madpoopz on May 29, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Please explain

the reason some of the above names dont make it.

by johnnygre on May 29, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was being sarcastic...

by stating the trade with a ton of upside for us and none for them. I wasn’t saying that your trade had no merit.

However, Scherzer and Schlereth seem to a bit much to give up, especially Scherzer. Our system doesn’t have as much starting pitching as it does relief pitching.

by madpoopz on May 29, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dont get me wrong

I just want to know how it really works. I haven’t seen any of these guys play. I only know what I read here and I know Scherzer’s results in Detroit so far have been awful. If we trully value Crosby and Turner so much why not offer some more MLB ready players in order to keep those kids in the team. After all we could just as well sign Pedro until the end of the season and look at the FA market later. Also Bonine and Brad Thomas seem to be working quite well so far (at least statistically).

by johnnygre on May 29, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

It appears...

that a mechanical adjustment in AAA by Scherzer has fixed his location and velocity issues which has paid with huge dividends in terms of results at a minor league level which should translate into improved results at the major league level. He should be able to come back and at least be a decent starter.

You’re right about trying to keep Crosby and Turner. Our system lacks depth in most every area besides relief pitching. Our trade ability almost rests upon the shoulders of our minor league relievers in a way because that’s the area we won’t really be hurt in when dealing in a trade.

But in reference to your trade idea above, you’re offer for Hanley is probably too little because of the fact that it’s Hanley Ramirez. David hits it on the button. A trade for Hanley right now would gut our depth in our system almost completely. Sure we upgrade a position on our field but our depth in case of injury, or in developing our future teams will be severely impacted.

So to tie my points together, lack of system depth probably keeps Dave Dombrowski from pulling the trigger on a Hanley Ramirez deal.

by madpoopz on May 29, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

In Greece every team in every sport would give up everything to pull off such a deal. In most other countries too. Even in the NBA the Knicks would empty their roster to get that loser LBJ. I don’t know how the other sports work.

But in baseball this care for the farm system, the young kids under development is unparalleled. Such care for the future instead of just the present should only draw praise. It shows how committed the team is to the player it selected. This is the right way to build for the future.
Awesome.

by johnnygre on May 29, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the lack of a salary cap makes baseball like it is.

A couple of our players can make up the entire yearly payroll NBA teams. So it’s much more expensive to be a baseball team in the United States. Having lots of young, cheap options help control costs for franchises.

Plus young faces help breath life into what can be a long and tedious season. Look at how much fun we’ve had watching Boesch bash the baseball around.

There are probably a few other good reasons for why baseball values it’s youth so much but all in all baseball is just a very unique sport.

by madpoopz on May 29, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Players are not easy to develop.

Having younger players come up from the minors helps teams that do not have the sheer finances to sign free agents allows teams like the Rays, Athletics and others to compete.

Developing those players takes time, effort and co-ordination throughout the organization. The leaps between levels of the minors are large (though I’ve heard A to AA is the hardest) and from AAA to MLB is daunting (every team can afford analyze your performance and look for flaws to exploit).

There isn’t enough money to field decent players through the FA market, especially when the FA market has been pretty barren over the last few years. In house development is vital, because of injury or shifting costs.

If the Tigers empty the cupboard to get Hanley, they address one problem and leverage years of progress for a solution to one troublesome area while creating entirely new trouble spots.

Dontrelle Willis apologist.

by 13194013 on May 30, 2010 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

This

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on May 30, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Salary cap is not the answer

At least as far as European teams are concerned. It must be an overall state of mind, because it holds true for the rich and the poor teams. Remember that the Yankees didnt move for Halladay because they didnt want to risk losing Jesus Montero. Or how easily we let Polanco walk in order to hand over the job to Sizemore. At the time it looked like cost-cutting but in the end we have almost the same payroll as last year.

by johnnygre on May 30, 2010 6:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hanley Ramirez or Jose Reyes?

Think that Hanley is the better batter and Reyes the better fielder. Will Florida look to get rid of Hanley now that he is having those issues with his coach and teamates? Or could the Mets trade one of their best players in order to cut some payroll and offer a big deal to another lucrative FA (perhaps Lee?)

by johnnygre on May 29, 2010 10:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Like at baseball?

Or what they would cost to get w/r/t our farm system and future positional needs and whatnot?

Because if you’re just talking about as a player, there is absolutely no comparison. That would be like asking “Joe Mauer or younger A.J. Pierzynski?”.

by theRPS on May 29, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hanley is better overall.

Reyes is also good, just not as amazing as Hanley. Ramirez will not traded by Florida unless they are offered so much talent that to refuse the trade would be to make their team worse. The Marlins are moving into a new stadium soon and need a star player to help sell tickets.

Meanwhile, Reyes will probably stay in NY unless the Mets have someone to fill his position and help for their big league club.

I’m not sure the Mets would pay Lee’s asking price but we’ll see. If Seattle continues to lose, Lee could be traded before the trading deadline.

Dontrelle Willis apologist.

by 13194013 on May 30, 2010 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

All I Can Say Is

Miggy needs some protection. Think Albert and Holliday in STL. He needs another big bat around him

B.Inge's facial hair advisor
Rod Allen's humor consultant

by BrianCMU. on Jun 6, 2010 3:51 PM EDT reply actions  

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