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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

Afternoon Prowl: Go for it in 2010, or build for 2011?

Baseball reality has spent the past week slapping we Tigers fans in the face...again and again and again.

Reality being a very ugly 10 game stretch of baseball. The Tigers are 2-8 in their last 10 games, 1-6 in the last 7, coming off a loss to the last place Cleveland Indians. They have fallen to only 1 game above the .500 mark at 26-25, and 4.5 games back of the 1st place Twins in the AL Central.

With the Tigers playing anything like a playoff contender, there's a couple of questions begging to be asked. Should the Tigers start building towards next year? Or should the Tigers attempt to right their ship, even if the cost is quite high, in order to make a run this season in a weak AL Central?

Over the weekend In the local fishwraps, Drew Sharp...

It's worth it. You can't fall in love with hope if it blinds you to one of a minor league prodigy's principle values: trade bait for that one veteran piece that could put the Tigers over the top.

Oswalt could be that piece.

and Bob Wojnowski...

The Tigers have shown they're not afraid to get aggressive, which is good, because it sure appears they'll need some help, and likely will have to make a significant deal to get it.

...both insisted the Tigers should go for it this year, and make a move to pick up pitching.

Obviously, the name of the moment is disgruntled Astro Roy Oswalt. But would Oswalt even want to come to Detroit?

According to Ed Price, senior baseball writer for AOL's Fanhouse, Oswalt has let the Astros know where he'd like to go. He's not disgruntled enough to place the Tigers on his short list..

An official from another team said word going around is that Roy Oswalt would approve a trade only to the Phillies, Yankees or Cardinals.

Well, so much for that.  Sharp and Wojo are going to have to move on to Cliff Lee.

Star-divide

But the internet's favroite Tigers writer, Lynn Henning, contradicts his fellow ink-stained wretches, saying the cost for either Oswalt or Lee will be far more than the team is willing to pay.

The asking price will be too heavy, especially for a team that (a) has little chance of winning the American League Central Division race in 2010, even with Oswalt or Lee, and (b) has put itself in nice position to be a playoff contender in the seasons ahead but could squander that chance if it deals away the kind of young talent Houston and Seattle would demand.

Consider the two pitchers, Oswalt and Lee, and you see the perils for a Tigers club that has been trying to cut back on bad contracts and, maybe, on the temptation to deal young talent for quick-win veterans.

I hate to say I agree with Henning, but I agree with Henning. For a team finally ridding themselves of some God awful contracts, taking on deals the size of Oswalt's or Lee's, considering their ages, would be a big risk.

In fact Henning is channeling BYB's own Kurt Mensching,  who went off on the aforementioned columnists, saying the Tigers should be concerned with setting themselves up for next season. As Kurt so aptly put any thought about the Tigers offense being "good enough":

Crazy talk!

Indeed.

One bothersome thing in writing this season off so early would mean essentially wasting an MVP type season from Miguel Cabrera. According to Sports Illustrated's weekly MVP rankings, Cabrera is currently 2nd in the AL in the MVP race. (Who's 1st? The Twins Justin Morneau. Figures.)

Cabrera is on pace for 163 RBIs, a total not reached since Manny Ramirez drove in 165 in 1999. Cabrera's batting average and on-base percentage have come down significantly over the past three weeks, but his hot start and recent power surge have kept him on the short list for MVP honors.

Being in the top 3 in all the traditional Triple Crown categories (3rd in AVE, 2nd in HR, 1st in RBI) best keep Cabrera on the short list.

But will Cabrera's heroics be enough to keep the Tigers in contention? Without another bat in the lineup, probably not.

Poll
Should the Tigers continue to go for it in 2010, or build toward contending in 2011?
Do whatever it takes this season
77 votes
Build for the future
72 votes
Let June play out, then we'll talk
318 votes

467 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 44 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Nothing like a losing streak to bring out all of the gloom-and-doom talk

Let’s at least give this thing until the 4th of July, shall we? If the starting pitching continues it’s recent ascent towards respectability, I like the odds of ripping off an 8-2 streak to even things out at some point.

by ChrisDTX on Jun 2, 2010 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Can't pack it in yet

The A’s, unlike most years, are a good team, and it’s not like they were horrible losses, despite our current lack of offense. The Seattle games were plenty winnable as well, it was a shame to see us lose the game with Perry. But our rotation is starting to solidify, which should eventually yield wins once the offense gets it together.

Interesting thought: over this slump, we’ve seen our bullpen come in less and less, and our starters going longer and giving up runs in later innings. Do you think we might be trying to overpreserve our fantastic bullpen? (I’m talking outside the Perry implosion at Seattle…)

by crc33 on Jun 2, 2010 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Again, I'm glad we aren't on Oswalt's short list

This guy would get rocked in the AL.

Tigers need bats a lot more than pitching. This team has half a line up. And it’s not like that half is “elite.” More like, “pretty good”

I hate that all the “reverting to the mean” stuff came true!

by redwingxviii on Jun 2, 2010 2:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I would love a power-hitting shortstop

i don’t think we need more pitching. that is all.

I Like Pie

by mrsunshine on Jun 2, 2010 2:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Or Derek Jeter

Or the Rays, who have two starting shortstops.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jun 2, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

the team should always be building for the future

but the buyer-or-seller aspect can be worried about at the end of july

by Kurt Mensching on Jun 2, 2010 2:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I think it's just a slump

It’s a long season, teams go through stretches like this. We’ve seen what happens when the lineup and bullpen are clicking, while the starting pitching isn’t. Now that the starters have come around, the lineup is struggling. If the Tigers can put all three together for a stretch, the results could be pretty nice. I don’t think Minnesota will run away with the division, especially with such a back-loaded schedule. No need to panic just yet.

by handsomerob1 on Jun 2, 2010 3:01 PM EDT reply actions  

SS or 3B

Let’s be honest here: the problem is not the pitching.
Trading away the future for a starting pitcher just doesn’t make sense. If we DO go for broke, let’s at least get a piece we are lacking: SS, 3B, or perhaps even C.
There aren’t a lot of those available by trade, but maybe by the end of the month some teams may be ready to wave the white flag and listen to a trade offer.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on Jun 2, 2010 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Wiggy

Personally, I would explore a trade with the struggling Orioles for either Ty Wiggington or Miguel Tejada. Either could provide improved offense at 3B, though I like Tejada a bit more because he could take a few games at SS from time to time to spell Santiago, and we could release Everett. Don’t get me wrong, I like Opie. I just don’t like him in a batters box when we need to win games.

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on Jun 2, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny

That’s the exact same reaction I had. Ultimately, all we really need to do is score more runs than the other team, whether that is by good pitching and defense or out-hitting them. I’d say just give it time, though!

by baum on Jun 2, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Move Inge to SS?

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jun 2, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right now Inge doesn’t have the range at 3rd that the Tiges need. That may improve as his knees get better (hope so!).

by downjersey on Jun 2, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

How does he not have the range?

Maybe now he’s limited to normal range at third, but there’s no in-house solution that’s better than Inge.

by handsomerob1 on Jun 3, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sizemore back in the lineup...

As I have watched Guillen look quite capable at 2nd this last week, one thought that has come into my head is “he looks mobile enough that he might actually be able to play SS again…”
Not sure if the organization is considering it, but with Sizemore starting to rake again in Toledo, putting Carlos back in his old spot could be an interesting option to inject some life into our offense. Santiago could move around the infield, spelling Sizemore, Guillen, and Inge.

1. Jackson
2. Damon
3. Ordonez
4. Cabrera
5. Boesch
6. Guillen
7. Sizemore
8. Inge
9. Laird/Avila

A lifelong Tigers fan

by ewild on Jun 2, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sizemore doesn't really have the arm for 3B

He’s also missing the range for SS. He’s kinda stuck at 2B. We’d be better off playing Guillen at 3B.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jun 2, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Probably

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jun 2, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look ahead

We have too many young players with a lot of potential to risk jeopardizing the next few years over a futile trade deadline deal. Plus we’ve got all kinds of bad contracts coming off the books. Detroit should just sit pat for now and hope for the best this year.

Then Dombrowski needs to go after the best SS/3B on the market in the offseason and sign one more proven starting pitcher. Maybe put starting catcher on the shopping list as well if Avila doesn’t start hitting with more consistency.

by Sutelc on Jun 2, 2010 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

How about...

Andy Oliver and a relief arm for Cliff Lee, under the assumption we can sign him to a 4 year deal once the deal is made. We’d still have Crosby and Turner in our system as well. From 2011-2014:

RHP Verlander
LHP Lee
RHP Scherzer
RHP Porcello

by ryan_matthews28 on Jun 2, 2010 4:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m thinking that Seattle is going to want a whole lot more than that package…

by DetroitTigersGeek on Jun 2, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

Look at what Philly originally gave up to get Lee: Carlos Carrasco (at the time a #3 starter type), Lou Marson (potential starting catcher), Jason Knapp (high ceiling young A-ball arm, not quite Turner level though) and Jason Donald (utility guy). That was for a rental- and it’s still a decently sized package- think along the lines of us dealing Andy Oliver, Charlie Furbush, Alex Avila and Scott Sizemore for Lee.

And then Seattle dealt Phillipe Aumont (closer ceiling relief arm), Tyson Gilles (solid CF prospect- speed/contact guy) and Juan Ramirez (potential #3 starter) to Philly. The prevailing wisdom was that Seattle stole Lee away with that package. The best we could do to match it would be Dan Scherleth, Casper Wells and Andy Oliver, and that’s only if Big Z is dumb enough to let Detroit fleece him after Philly did it.

It’s not that it’s a bad idea (hell, we’ve got tons of relief arms, so if Oliver/Scherleth/Wells is what it takes, then fine) but that it doesn’t solve our biggest problem- where the runs come from. I’d rather try to grab Erick Aybar away from the Angels (if they decide to sell) or a SS from Tampa Bay (using Jedi mind tricks b/c that’ll be f*cking impossible).

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jun 2, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Conventional wisdom is that Cleveland got hosed

Much in the same way Minny got hosed for Santana.

by ChrisDTX on Jun 2, 2010 6:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah

And CW will probably dictate that Philly got hosed soon too. I seem to remember a couple articles dealing with that.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jun 2, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would be a nice throw in for them

I’m guessing that any conversation for him would start with Sizemore AND Avila plus some pitching. I’m thinking that Seattle is after position players more than anything else, just as we are.

by baum on Jun 2, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

None of the above....

- make sensible moves this season to contend. Not “whatever it takes”, and don’t wait another month.
- make a run at Oswalt. There are conflicting reports about where he’d be willing to play. Another report suggests that he’d accept a deal to the Nationals.
- continue to build for the future. There’s not necessarily a trade off between winning now and winning in the future.

by Tigerdog1 on Jun 2, 2010 4:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah

I’m kinda with you. If we could give up a prospect or two for a rental bat (like last year with Huff but a good one this time) then that’s okay. Doing more is kinda dumb.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jun 2, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oswalt to Twins?

I hate to bring this up, but it seems to make sense. The Twins really want to win a playoff series this year. One weakness they have is the lack of a dominant ace. Oswalt would be like Carl Pavano was last year, only probably better (and more costly). The Twins have a knack for filling their holes with winners…Orlando Cabrera, Orlando Hudson, Jim Thome (although I think he will be about as useful as Joe Crede was). Anyway they want to showcase Mauer and their new stadium, so if they feel at all challenged by the Tigers, or eventually the Yankees, they may go for Oswalt. As long as Houston doesn’t demand Nick Punto!

by von zip on Jun 5, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyway

don’t roast the sports “writers” too much. It’s a rather dull part of the season. They are just trying to stoke the embers a bit.
It happened last year around this time, when talks for Halladay and Holliday and Dunn started heating up (which would go on to blaze like a rabid forest fire… it got out of control in a hurry)

by DetroitTigersGeek on Jun 2, 2010 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Please, please, please...

…no more Drew Sharp references. I wish he and Will McDonald would get on a plane with the Marshall football team.

"All aboard!"
Boesch Bandwagon Conductor

by trross1200 on Jun 2, 2010 6:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Ouch

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jun 2, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

After seeing last night

This starting rotation could potentially carry the team to a division title. Mando won’t be perfect ever again, but if him and Bondo are anything like they have been the last two days it would set us up really nicely.

by handsomerob1 on Jun 3, 2010 8:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Catching woes

I hear the White Sox would like to be rid of A.J. Pierzinski. He is not a great catcher but he does hit over .200 with some power. Maybe Ozzie would like to have Carlos join his Freddy Garcia fan club? They wanted Teahen so bad, so why not?

by von zip on Jun 5, 2010 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

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