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Around SBN: Where Do The Lakers Go From Here?

Armando Galarraga pitches 28 out perfect game

Out.

Here's out number 27...which 1st base umpire Jim Joyce MISSED.

MLB has to make this right.

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They won't.

This is the same commissioner that spent years denying steroid use.

You think he’s going to overturn this?

Armando threw a perfect game, I don’t give a shit what the record books will show. Everyone and their mother knows this. The only guy that doesn’t is a fucking idiot and should be ignored.

by Terrence J. Lynch on Jun 2, 2010 9:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Idk

2 me, I guess maybe he was tryuin 2 let AG make the play, but 2 me if Cabby lets Guillon, who’s been makin all the plays, make that play & he’s on the bag where he shoulda been, we’re not even talkin about Joyce, but ya an odvious call for the use of replay.

by LTownDown on Jun 2, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

BS

That has to be one of the worst calls i have ever seen. I wish they would have started throwing things at him in the stadium

by JKamm48180 on Jun 2, 2010 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm sure it doesn't help

but watching that game, that was absolutely ridiculous and Jim Joyce deserves to be fired immediately. I have no idea who the hell would rule in favor of the 27th out in a perfect game on a close play, let alone an obvious one at that. I can only hope it’s overturned and Galarraga is rewarded with the 21st perfect game.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like mouth?
useless and hated

by Wailord on Jun 2, 2010 9:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Is it even possible?

Does the commish have the power to overturn the call? Who knows?

by watsonstclair on Jun 2, 2010 9:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I already know what Bud Selig is going to say.

HUMAN ELEMENT IS PART OF BASEBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sigh

by DogDaysofSummer on Jun 2, 2010 9:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Just like steroids were a human element part of baseball.

Fuck Selig if he doesn’t overturn this

I’m done with baseball if he doesn’t.

by Terrence J. Lynch on Jun 2, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

If anyone knows where the umps are staying....

…call DPD and tell them there is a fugitive in his room.

by Robocop on Jun 2, 2010 9:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Poor kid.

I would probably lose all motivation to keep pitching if that happened to me. Just completely goddamn ridiculous.

by heatpop on Jun 2, 2010 9:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Looking back at it

Joyce looked liked he wanted to call an out…
(until he remembered he’s a jerk, and wanted to tarnish a perfectly amazing perfect game- complete with an awesome catch my AJAX which will be forgotten unfortunately)

by DetroitTigersGeek on Jun 2, 2010 9:19 PM EDT reply actions  

ESPN and MLB Network

keep replaying the catch as often as the blown call, but yeah you’re likely right. It was an AMAZING catch that won’t get its due because all it preserved, in the end, was a 1 hit shutout

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow... that's just ridiculous

That kind of call should never happen, it better get overturned! That really sucks for all of you guys, and I can’t imagine how Galarraga must feel right now…

Good luck fischean of Junebug, wherever you are! - less cowbell, more 'neau

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jun 2, 2010 9:20 PM EDT reply actions  

I still want to know.

Maybe you know Kurt, does the commish have the power to overturn the call?

by watsonstclair on Jun 2, 2010 9:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Technically, yes

The officer of the commissioner has to approve official scoring. He could reject that official scoring of the play, blah blah blah… not happening. Overturned calls like that just don’t happen in baseball and would set a dangerous rule precedent. Basically that’s declaring replay legal in all situations at the sole discretion of the commissioner of the league… no thanks.

by john.kmiecik on Jun 2, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Respectfully, I'd risk it in this case if I were Selig.

This is the sort of black eye on the game he’s been hypersensitive about before. If he can mess with the All-Star Game the way he did, this shouldn’t be any trouble for him.

by owllover711 on Jun 3, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I still feel a little sick to my stomach...

Armando handled it like a champ though, I guess there’s nothing to do in that situation but smile

by busta on Jun 2, 2010 9:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions   2 recs

Very disappointed in Leyland.

He should be publicly excorciating Joyce. There’s no defense for a big league umpire to blow that call.

Joyce must be suspended immediately.

by rook34 on Jun 2, 2010 9:23 PM EDT reply actions  

no. leyland takin' the high road.

I, and all of us on the other hand, would verbally DESTROY JOYCE!!

by DetroitTigersGeek on Jun 2, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

He should be backing his player.

Not covering for an umpire who blew a call.

by rook34 on Jun 2, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

true...

i agree totally!
but he doesn’t want to get anyone suspended or fined or whatnot.

by DetroitTigersGeek on Jun 2, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leyland has to take the high road...

There’s a game tomorrow, and the incompetent boob will be on the field.

I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.

by BigAl on Jun 2, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope. No excuse.

Should have flamed him. The hell with the umpire.

by rook34 on Jun 2, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the plus side

We should get all the calls tomorrow.

President, Vice President and Secretary of the Casey Crosby Fanclub.

Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys

by David Tokarz on Jun 3, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm pissed about that, too.

I can understand taking the high road.

But this ump ROBBED a man of a perfect game.

There’s no high road here. Just a lot of lows.

by Terrence J. Lynch on Jun 2, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Players > Money

The high road in this situation would be to flame the Ump. So would the low road hell the entire road. (I’m well aware this makes no sense)

by Taiwanese Tora on Jun 2, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Smacks of the old boys network covering for each other.

I hope the players flame him. I thought Miggy was going to give him an Ultimate Warrior-style gorilla press slam.

by rook34 on Jun 2, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leyland can take the high road

We, the fans, can rip Jim Joyce to shreds because that’s what fans do.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jim Leyland is a class act.

He did defend his pitcher after the game. Leyland invariably will battle for his players and he did so tonight.

by downjersey on Jun 2, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely agree about Leyland!

You’ve got to back your guy in that situation and he didn’t even manage to get tossed. If I’m the manager you would have to forcibly remove me from the playing field after that horrible call in that situation!!

I’m serious. I’ll pay the fines, deal with the suspension, and handle anything else they want to throw my way, but I’m not leaving that field until the call gets changed or they carry me away. Go ahead and throw me out, I don’t care – you’ll have to carry me to get me to go! Tonight was one of the lowest moments in baseball history!

by mwalter on Jun 3, 2010 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Leyland was right in his face

at the end of the game. Fuck! Mando still had to get the last out so why take him out of his zone by having a huge arguement. Face it there will be no celebration for this either by a proper call or Leyland getting kicked out. Forgive Joyce the idiot cuz … and then go enjoy Jacksons AMAZING catch in the 9th in what we all know is a perfect game!

by drew3434 on Jun 3, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought for sure leyland would have gotten thrown out.

by JKamm48180 on Jun 2, 2010 9:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey...

Umm, they can overturn calls. IIRC didn’t Polanco get a bunch of errors changed to keep his streaks going?

by actioncuse on Jun 2, 2010 9:28 PM EDT reply actions  

One error during that 140-odd long streak

It was overturned post-game by the official scorer, not the office of the commissioner or on field officiating.

by john.kmiecik on Jun 2, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you guys riot tonight, the rest of the country will understand……..

"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn

by 49er16 on Jun 2, 2010 9:29 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Here's my two cents

I’ve watched tiger baseball for a long time. And to take away a perfect game is the greatest shame there is… I know Jim Joyce is a great umpire but right now I hopes he dies from penis cancer, he took away from me and everyone who watched that game from start to finsh……………………………..

by msivits on Jun 2, 2010 9:30 PM EDT reply actions  

They overturned the pinetar thing

They can overturn this

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game, the American game. It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us." Walt Whitman

by NCDee on Jun 2, 2010 9:31 PM EDT reply actions  

cubs fan here

I have one word to say: outrageous

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 2, 2010 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

or Inge :)

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

Inge is in the voting every day. Just for showing up in a uni….

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

nope

Armando won with 98% of the vote. Only 2% went to the Inge groupies. :)

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

that makes me

very happy, indeed.

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

How does Inge even get 2% on this night

and I consider myself a borderline Inge groupie

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m thinking it’s more 1% Inge groupie and 1% on the aforementioned Cabrera home run and people who voted early.

Tigers Amateur Analysis

Doña of the VZ Mafia

by SabreRoseTiger on Jun 2, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm assuming Inge

For the sake of consistency.

But 98% was all Armando. :)

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

This didn't take long
@FakeJimJoyce Hittin’ the clubs tonight with my buddy Don Denkinger.

"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn

by 49er16 on Jun 2, 2010 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

The Commissioner Needs To Review and Reverse This Call Period

It would be the right thing to do and would have no impact on the final outcome of the game.

by Buddahfan on Jun 2, 2010 9:33 PM EDT reply actions  

They're not going to

I hate to be Debbie Downer, especially since I’m not even a Tigers fan, but Bud Selig is an idiot. Besides, it kinda ruins the moment if it gets overturned.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jun 2, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the end this may end up being one of the best things that could happen for baseball.

If this is what it takes to get instant replay in baseball, then it’s likely well worth the missed perfect game. This will end up being one of the most famous perfect games of all time anyway, who cares if it shows up in the stat sheet.

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on Jun 2, 2010 9:36 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I was going to say the same thing

In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both

by JazzyBBP on Jun 2, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I agree. Armando’s game tonight will be remembered just like the “perfect game” Ernie Shore pitched for Boston in 1917 after the starter, Babe Ruth, walked the first hitter and got tossed out of the game. Shore replaced Ruth, got a double play, and retired all 26 men he faced. Armando’s game will go down in baseball lore as the 28-Out Perfect Game and be remembered as long as baseball is played..

by downjersey on Jun 2, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously

Every time someone pitches a perfect game now, it will be the (fill in the blank) perfect game in ML history, and then somone will mention this game.

Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...

by Stephen Schmidt on Jun 2, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Spoken like someone with no personal interest in tonight's game.

Though I agree with everything you said. It just sucks to be a Tigers fan tonight.

by Rob Rogacki on Jun 3, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am a Twins fan and

All I can say is Wow. Thats just crazy. Two things wrong with that play.
A) First of all he was clearly out and
B) When 26 batters have been retired and we’re on the verge of the 3rd perfect game this year, and the play was that “close” (I use that term loosely) you call him out 100 times of 100. Thats just effing retarted.

I do have a theory though as to why he called him safe. The game was going along VERY quickly correct? Well maybe just maybe his wife had caught him cheating the night before with his lover and he was trying to buy some extra time from coming home because she worked at 8:30. Thats the only logical thing I can think of.

I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jun 2, 2010 9:38 PM EDT reply actions  

thank you for the support

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

one thing the media is saying is wrong

it didn’t cost galarraga baseball immortality. Cost him a spot on the list of perfect games, but this is a moment that will be replayed for a long, long time.

by Kurt Mensching on Jun 2, 2010 9:38 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Not trying to be

Jonny Raincloud or anything, but how likely do you think it’ll be for anyone outside of Detroit to remember this game 30 years from now? Armando was robbed

I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jun 2, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Argument could be made....

That this is the perpetual perfect game “asterisk” game. Hmmm.

by Flying J on Jun 2, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other than those in the last 10-15 years

No. I think that was Percy Harvin’s point.

Oh, and thanks for tearing it up for my fantasy team last year Harvin.

by Rob Rogacki on Jun 3, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I will always, for the rest of my life, consider that a perfect game

for the rest of my life, whenever perfect games are discussed, I will chime in about this game. Jim Joyce’s name will live in infamy with me until my dying day.

by ThaWalrus9 on Jun 2, 2010 9:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Apparently Joyce has seen the replay

Via freelance writer Dave Hogg on Twitter:

http://twitter.com/Stareagle/statuses/15291664990

Jim Joyce was utterly distraught when we talked to him. “Biggest call of my career, and I kicked the s**t out of it.”

http://twitter.com/Stareagle/statuses/15291770365

Joyce said he didn’t know if he would try to talk to Galarraga. “I don’t know what to do. I just cost that kid a perfect game.”

I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.

by BigAl on Jun 2, 2010 9:40 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Sad thing is

Out of all the umpires, Jim Joyce is actually one of the good ones.

"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn

by 49er16 on Jun 2, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, thank God.

Now that I know Joyce is so sorry, I guess that makes everything better.

by Terrence J. Lynch on Jun 2, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know

what I am more touched by. The complete support of ALL of Baseball or James Joyce’s sincere regret. Selig really has to make this right. There is no grey area here.

by drew3434 on Jun 2, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

That really explains the bad call.

Short sighted AND an eyepatch. Shoo.

This team wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for all the losing.

by andromache on Jun 2, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

And according to these

http://loveletters.tribe.net/thread/fce72385-b146-4bf2-9d2e-0dfa6ac7142d

apparently his mind was a little preoccupied with something other than baseball.

Dirty, dirty boy!

by drew3434 on Jun 3, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

The way he's talking

makes it kinda hard to hate Jim Joyce this morning.

by Rob Rogacki on Jun 3, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Takes a lot to hear an ump own up to blowing a call. I have to respect him for that (especially now that I’ve had a chance to sleep on it, last night I still hoped for a long painful death).

by Robocop on Jun 3, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

A glimmer of hope

not sure if people remember, but back in 2001 Randy Johnson struck out 20 in the first 9 innings of what ended up being an extra innings game. At first, they said it didn’t count as the most strikeouts in a 9 inning game, then changed the ruling:

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=randy_johnson_1963

by ThaWalrus9 on Jun 2, 2010 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I apologize from the bottom of my heart about this.

I know I’m stating the obvious, but you guys did get screwed. I’m pissed off too, not at the Indians, but at Jim Joyce and baseball in general. When it’s that goddamn obvious, they need to do some sort of instant replay. Bud needs to realize that the umps aren’t consistent enough to make these calls right. They shouldn’t give shit about replay taking too long or whatever the hell they come up with. Now is the time to institute a rule, and the first official ruling will be changing that call to make this a perfect game. I tip my hat to Galarraga for keeping his composure, and even managing a small smile. I’m sure 99.99% of the population would’ve lost it, myself included. Galarraga is on my list for perfect games, regardless of what Joyce said. He will forever ump in baseball hell with all the players being Ty Cobb.

by BoSox415 on Jun 2, 2010 9:43 PM EDT reply actions  

What is Joyce thinking

Or is he overthinking? Umps insert themselves into the games too much. He sees a close call and he automatically thinks I can’t blow this and let people say that I gave this guy a perfect game, so he ends up actually blowing it and taking it away!!!!

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

the weird thing is

The you would think an umpire who gets caught up in the game would make the call as out, especially at home. the crowd has been roaring for a few innings, everyone is excited, it would be so easy to just call the guy out and end the game if the call was at all close.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You would think!?!??!?!?!?

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

A similar occurrence happened in 1972

Bruce Froemming called a borderline ball four on the 27th batter of a game in which Milt Pappas was throwing a perfecto. Luckily Pappas retired the next batter and still got a no-hitter. Many people, including Pappas himself, wondered aloud how an ump could hold himself in such high esteem as to turn his back on history.

Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...

by EalyEagle on Jun 2, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joyce is apparently distraught, though

What’s the over/under on how many hours of sleep he gets tonight? My guess is… well, right about zero.

by frisbeepilot on Jun 2, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get the Detnews feed

in my FB and someone commented they think Joyce is supposed to be behind home plate tomorrow

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ooooooooooooh.

Yeah, I’m thinking he’s not going to be there tomorrow.

by frisbeepilot on Jun 2, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

I agree with that. I’ll be shocked if he is.

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep

1B umpire rotates to behind home plate the next game.

Tigers Amateur Analysis

Doña of the VZ Mafia

by SabreRoseTiger on Jun 2, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I give him a helluva lot of credit

if he gets back there. God bless him. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Laird let a few high fastballs get by him

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

probably wishful thinking on my part

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's what I was trying to remember

It would be part of the human element to get caught up in the moment, no matter how much they try not to do so. Imagine the emotions of an umpire who has the opportunity to emphatically punch out a guy that will be an historic strikeout, for example. It would be hard to avoid letting the emotions push him one direction more than the other.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joyce is human

We all make mistakes. This one sucks for the Tigers and for baseball fans around the country, but it was a simple mistake. The shame is that MLB doesn’t provide a way for mistakes like this to be fixed. I’m just thankful that my mistakes don’t typically happen on a national level.

by mwalter on Jun 3, 2010 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

His reaction was priceless

that wry smile masking utter disbelief and suppressed rage. But he keeps his composure and goes back to work. I would have absolutely freaked. There is no way I could’ve kept pitching

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

This game has been over for an hour

Tigers Live isn’t even scheduled to start yet. Hell of a performance by Armando

Back off man, I'm a scientist

Winging It In Motown

by Ryan Weiss on Jun 2, 2010 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

and the comments here keep

coming fast and FURIOUS!!!!

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hahahaha

Reporter: “Did he [Joyce] think he bobbled it?”
JL: “That’s the great part…”

Fantastic.

by DetroitTigersGeek on Jun 2, 2010 9:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I know this is a long shot...

But a couple years ago, CC Sabathia pitched a complete game 1-hitter, with that one hit being an infield single to the pitcher that CC bobbled as he tried throwing to first. The Brewers tried to lobby MLB to change that hit to an error. Now, they didn’t succeed, but is it possible the Tigers could use the same channel of appeal?

By the way, I annoyed a bunch of people at work by hiding in the back and listening to the ninth inning on the radio. Dan and Jim were pissed, then distraught. Hell, during the postgame show, Dan accidentally said “Tigers lose 3-0” and didn’t realize he messed up.

Tigers Amateur Analysis

Doña of the VZ Mafia

by SabreRoseTiger on Jun 2, 2010 9:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Here's what's interesting to me...

One would think that Joyce would be predisposed in that situation to calling an out, given the momentousness of the prefect game. That he would call him safe, and so badly, truly puzzles me.

Also, he should EABOD and DIAF.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~ Art Hill

by crwi on Jun 2, 2010 9:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Dan Dickerson on ESPN now

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game, the American game. It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us." Walt Whitman

by NCDee on Jun 2, 2010 9:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Even though I am a hated Yankees fan

I am truly sorry for the kid. This is exhibit, like, X that baseball needs instant replay AND a serious investigation into the abilities of the umpiring crews around the bigs.

by GMan83201 on Jun 2, 2010 9:51 PM EDT reply actions  

thanks bro

I don’t hate the Yankees or their fans as much as I do Jon Sterling’s obnoxiousness.

Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...

by EalyEagle on Jun 2, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

we try not to hate fans here

we just hate players. fans are what makes sports so much fun.

I Like Pie
I Dislike Opie

by mrsunshine on Jun 2, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Never was a huge Galarraga fan

but now, he’s one of my favorites. He showed such heart, both pitching, and reacting to being royally screwed.

by ThaWalrus9 on Jun 2, 2010 9:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Another Twins fan here

…and if this doesn’t get fixed I will vomit. I belong to a blog community very similar to this one, and I lurk here a lot during the season to see what you guys are saying. I’ve never commented, but I wanted to register my disgust and say I feel for you guys today.

I can’t really add anything that hasn’t been said. That play wasn’t close. That was fucking routine. I realize that overturning this call might make the whole thing “weird” or something, but in the end, this is the most important moment of Galarraga’s life and he deserves to revel in this moment. Fix it, for his sake.

by spookymilk on Jun 2, 2010 9:52 PM EDT reply actions  

I know it won't.

Which is why I feel so bad for Galarraga.

by spookymilk on Jun 2, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

what the fuck

speechless…

get those damn cubs fans out of here.

by Budeye on Jun 2, 2010 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't let the user pic fool ya

I go back to Dave Rozema, Phil Mankowski, and Ron LeFlore.

Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...

by EalyEagle on Jun 2, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

then he would fine Joyce, the other umpires involved, and the National League for only throwing 1 perfect game so far this year.

by Rob Rogacki on Jun 3, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the thing

Something like this is going to affect the ump much more than Armondo.

Joyce will be up all night worrying about any fines/demotions/not being in the postseason. He will be afraid of the calls that will be coming from Selig, the head umps, and unfortunately the death threats. He will wonder why he messed up, how could he change it, will MLB change it, etc. You can bet that Joyce wants no part of tomorrow’s game. He will say he wants to make it right, but nothing he can do will ever make it right.

Armondo will come down from his high, probably get a bunch of calls from friends and family and be excited to talk to mom. She will say she doesn’t care and that it was a perfect game. He will understand that he’s probably not going back to AAA unless he completely implodes or is injured. He will sleep like a baby because the pressure is not on him whatsoever. He did his part and there’s nothing more he can do. He had a perfect game.

by actioncuse on Jun 2, 2010 9:56 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

“He did his part and there’s nothing more he can do”

errr….get totally stinking perhaps? I know i am

by Mikeman_66 on Jun 2, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ridiculous

There is no excuse for blowing that call. That close, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Joyce should be ashamed.

I already said it on my dumb blog, but no one is perfect. But Armando should’ve been today.

http://designaterobertson.blogspot.com

by Rogo on Jun 2, 2010 9:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Armando was perfect.

As far as the fans are concerned, and his teammates. That’s what counts more.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

and his family and friends

Silly premature posting.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

If there is a bright side...

Hopefully this finally wakes this team up and brings them closer together. I’m not usually big on things like that in sports, but it can’t hurt.

http://designaterobertson.blogspot.com

by Rogo on Jun 2, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

This might just be a weird year

In all things the juju has been strange and treacherous.

by Flying J on Jun 2, 2010 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I feel so robbed

Back when JV pitched the no hitter, I didn’t have satellite and couldn’t watch. I went to his very next start and he got absolutely rocked by the Twins. Now we get a guy who’s one out from a perfect game and this happens….wow.

Back off man, I'm a scientist

Winging It In Motown

by Ryan Weiss on Jun 2, 2010 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I might blow off work tomorrow

Head to the Copa, splurge on some seats right behind the plate, what the hell, ya only live once, right?
I’ll make sure to bring a 30 pack of off-brand D-Cells.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~ Art Hill

by crwi on Jun 2, 2010 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

okay, I refuse to be depressed about a win and a fabulous pitching performance

There was more awesome about that game than crappy.

I thought for sure that the perfect game and no-hitter and everything was gone at the beginning of the inning when that ball was hit to Austin Jackson. :)

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, when Jackson caught that ball

I knew it was happening. Rod Allen absolutely lost his shit after that catch. He said exactly what we all did.

by Rob Rogacki on Jun 3, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Whatever.

It was a perfect game. And then some. Important: the Tigers needed that win.

by ChrisDTX on Jun 2, 2010 10:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Armando is a class act

Just watched his interview on MLB tv and I don’t think anyone could have handled it any better then he did.

by Stones1981 on Jun 2, 2010 10:03 PM EDT reply actions  

BTW

I have never been more sad about a Tigers win.

by ChrisDTX on Jun 2, 2010 10:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

like going to 11 instead of just 10

Oh, Armando, you overachiever, you. :)

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

awesome :)

Official BYB Juju Consultant...now accepting rally creature applications!

by ahtrap on Jun 2, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm stealing that, just letting you know....

Official BYB Juju Consultant...now accepting rally creature applications!

by ahtrap on Jun 2, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another positive!

The team NEEDED a win, very badly, and Armando knew he wasn’t going to get a lot of run support because – well, it’s the Tigers and they don’t do that stuff – so he knew from the start of the game he was going to have to pitch very well to give his team a chance to get back on track.

And that is just what he did.

(Still talking on the ESPN game about it, too.)

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

The Cleveland blog is funny

They start out joyfully and gloating after the blown call, then it slowly settles in what they just saw (or didn’t see)…………

I cheer for all perfect games, even if one day, it happens against the Tigers. You always pray before you go to a game that you get to see something special like that.

by Elfuego51 on Jun 2, 2010 10:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Sad to have missed this one

The guys calling the Cards-Reds game on ESPN are ripping on Joyce too. He’s going to hear about this one for a long time.

And unlike someone posited about this one being forgotten after a while, this was a completely blown call, on par with Don Denkinger’s blown call, albeit on a less important stage. I think this game could be remembered among the great bad calls.

Official BYB Juju Consultant...now accepting rally creature applications!

by ahtrap on Jun 2, 2010 10:10 PM EDT reply actions  

I was there. I saw a Perfect game

Armando pitched the 21st perfect game in MLB history. Period.

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 10:11 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

hell of a game to see

Historic. :)

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm glad you got to see that.

You can tell your grandchildren!

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game, the American game. It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us." Walt Whitman

by NCDee on Jun 2, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes

It was definitely something I’ll never forget.

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going to tell everyone I saw it live

I can just buy a ticket after the fact, right? ;)

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

i keep all my tix

but this one is special.

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I cannot imagine what it would have been like to be there

I was thinking about it after the fact and I’m pretty sure someone would have had to restrain me from running out onto the field and punching Jim Joyce in the face. I’m sure glad you got to be there to see it.

by kendra.michelle on Jun 3, 2010 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gallaraga got Robbed

Im a Twins fan and I don’t dislike the Tigers mostly because of my love for Miggy but that’s he type of thing that should only happen to the White Sux or Indians.

"We're gonna do this f*ucking thing over again cuz I just f*cked it up.....oh, we're live, I didn't know that" Bert Blyleven

by smoooooth on Jun 2, 2010 10:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

After watching that replay again and again, consider this...

I really think if Miggy stays home on that play, I think Carlos makes that play easily and has A LOT of time to make and easy throw to first. Granted it was hit to a tough spot, and Miggy and Mando both played it perfectly, but still. Just to think….

by tigers22 on Jun 2, 2010 10:12 PM EDT reply actions  

If Miggy and Armando had missed the play, then I would agree with you.

but they did it. they made the play.
the ump got himself out of position and blew the call.

by murrajo on Jun 2, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Adrenaline is pumping

Miggy is just thinking I gotta get this ball, can’t let it get into the outfield. He did the right thing. Armando did what pitchers are drilled over and to do, and did it well. Perfect play. Perfect game. Imperfect umpire.

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go Tigers!

I don’t get to see games, but I was pissed. MLB needs to do right.

95 days till Samford. 09.04.10.

by DA-2 on Jun 2, 2010 10:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Quote from Jim Joyce

“I don’t know what to do. I cost that kid a perfect game. Biggest call of my career and I kicked the **** out of it”

by Tigerdog1 on Jun 2, 2010 10:14 PM EDT reply actions  

No

But there isn’t much they can say. They lost, they were dominated, and they had nothing to do with the lost perfect game – it was a blown umpiring call.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

He looked

Pretty shocked after the call was made. Not happy, just shocked that he was called safe.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

we thought so too

he didn’t put his hands out in the “safe” signal like they usually do on a close call

by murrajo on Jun 2, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes

Usually on a close call, the runner tries to call himself safe and then claps if he is as he bounces back to the bag. This time he was in shock.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

He looked exactly like...

…a guy who had just been called out on a close play, but is too shocked to argue.

by frisbeepilot on Jun 2, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

i was at the game

and it was the most upset i’ve ever been leaving a baseball game.

it was also the closest i’ve come to a riot situation. if they would have shown the replay in the stadium, hell would have broken lose.

by nicolas08 on Jun 2, 2010 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

it was tough to tell

whether he was safe or not from the bleachers

by nicolas08 on Jun 2, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's baseball

You ALWAYS assume a call against your team is bullshit.

by Trysdor on Jun 2, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

um, that call was

bullshit. Jim Joyce admitted it was bullshit

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, of course it was

but as a fan in the stands, without the benefit of replay, you just have to assume it is and riot.

by Trysdor on Jun 2, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

was bittersweet

the victory. Wasn’t it? I was there too.

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

incredibly bittersweet

i’ve never been more upset leaving any tigers game. ever.

by nicolas08 on Jun 2, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

me neither

but we both witnessed history in the making. It was #21. No matter who comes next, they’ll always be #22. Period.

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

right

And storming the field for nothing is just silly.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Avila too

they had him on MLB Network

by ChrisDTX on Jun 2, 2010 10:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

gotta like that G$

was leading the charge with the argument. we know he doesn’t back down from a fight when one of his “brothers” is wronged!!

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know this won't happen

but I really hope MLB makes a statement tomorrow that says “Due to the extremely unique circumstances of the Tigers vs. Indians game and the fact that Donald was clearly out after review on what should have been the final out of the game, we will be rewarding Galarraga with a perfect game”.

by Stones1981 on Jun 2, 2010 10:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey, they did it at the Olympics once

Gave a figure skating pair a gold medal after a judging controversy.

Tigers Amateur Analysis

Doña of the VZ Mafia

by SabreRoseTiger on Jun 2, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

At this point, I'll settle for

Due to the extremely unique circumstances of the Tigers vs. Twins game and the fact that Inge would have clearly won the game on the missed HBP, we’ll be replaying the 2009 Postseason with the Tigers in place of the Twins.

by Trysdor on Jun 2, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

THIS

made me smile for the first time tonight

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Y'know, I sorta hope this doesn't happen.

And I don’t think it can, because it would set a precedent that any individual call could be reviewed later — while the Commissioner (apparently) has the right to approve or disapprove of the official scoring, you’ll open up a whole huge can of worms over this one game. It would undermine the umpires’ authority on the field, and then everyone and their dog would request to have a call reviewed after-the-fact.

by frisbeepilot on Jun 2, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are right

what if the Indians would’ve scored 4 and won?

by ChrisDTX on Jun 2, 2010 10:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Exactly.

Best thing we can possibly hope for is that this is the final straw that puts instant replay in place. If they change one call then they have to start going through tape and changing them all. There are a ton of blown calls every year, always have been. This one just happened at the worst possible time. No one would be talking about it if he’d already given up a hit or two. We’d just be glad for the win instead of wondering how the hell we’re going to sleep tonight.

by Sutelc on Jun 2, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Give each manager one appeal per game.

Have it reviewed at MLB’s head offices by a 2-man crew that’s always on duty, give them three minutes maximum, and if it’s still unclear after that, stick with the ruling on the field.

by frisbeepilot on Jun 2, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know how the world works, don't you?

We’ll get replay, and the first use of it will cost the Tigers a game. That’s just how it goes.

by Trysdor on Jun 2, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

a current top tweet...couldn't help laughing
BillKempin Oil spill update: Bad news for Florida’s beaches. Umpire Jim Joyce just declared them safe.

Official BYB Juju Consultant...now accepting rally creature applications!

by ahtrap on Jun 2, 2010 10:29 PM EDT reply actions  

ok, that's funny

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jim Joyce is taking over cyberspace

He’s famous!

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

i hate him

Welcome to Detroit, NO sissies allowed

by Detroitchik on Jun 2, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we all do right now

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Baseball Project ought to rewrite this tune for good ’ol Armando.

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~ Art Hill

by crwi on Jun 2, 2010 10:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Two impressive facts

1. Both starters went the distance. How often does that happen?
2. Both starters went the distance while each throwing under 100 pitches (96 for Carmona, and an astonishing 88 for Galarraga). How often does THAT happen?!

by frisbeepilot on Jun 2, 2010 10:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Here is a silver lining:

Galarraga now owns the most famous one-hit shutout in MLB history.

I am not saying that to be taunting BTW. And who knows? Maybe his stellar performance will be what FINALLY brings instant replay to baseball. As much as it sucks now, a lot of good can come of this.

by GMan83201 on Jun 2, 2010 10:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd rather no instant replay if it meant Armando got the perfect game.

There’s no silver lining. The greatest moment of Armando’s life was just taken away from him. It’d be like you picking up your newborn child and some asshole came up to you and took him away. It may be an exaggeration but how many people in the world get the opportunity to pitch a perfect game?

by Terrence J. Lynch on Jun 2, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Greatest moment of his life?

The way he spoke in the postgame interview in the locker room, it sounds like his son is way more important to him than this game. Just sayin’. ;)

by frisbeepilot on Jun 2, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I loved his postgame quote

In which he said something, “it was my best game…SO FAR”.

Great outlook, especially so close after a brush with immortality.

Official BYB Juju Consultant...now accepting rally creature applications!

by ahtrap on Jun 2, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

he knows what he did

I think he can take a lot of confidence from this forward. I hope so – he’s a good pitcher, but it seems like he’s prone to his confidence getting shaky and then he forgets he actually knows how to pitch pretty well and goes into snail’s-pace-mode.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I mean, Harvey Haddix is more famous than Addie Joss, right?

With those who don't give a damn about baseball, I can only sympathize. I do not resent them. I am even willing to concede that many of them are physically clean, good to their mothers and in favor of world peace. But while the game is on, I can't think of anything to say to them. ~ Art Hill

by crwi on Jun 2, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

IMO the worst part is

that Armando and the team didn’t get to truly celebrate it on the field together. It’s great to hear that Armando and the team know he really through a perfect game, but it’s sad they didn’t get to celebrate.

by Stones1981 on Jun 2, 2010 10:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Bright side

Nobody broke their leg in the (what should have been) celebration

by RealityIsOptionable on Jun 2, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

The right time was the end of last year

when his last AB was a hit and his teammates carried him off the field in Seattle, where it all began.

by GMan83201 on Jun 2, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

No kidding. That'll be lost in the headlines for awhile now.

Should be a footnote on the cover of the next issue of SI with Armando as the coverboy.

by Sutelc on Jun 2, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Governor Granholm

declared the game perfect!!

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 10:43 PM EDT reply actions  

I wouldn't hold my breath

Remember, he IS a White Sox fan. :D

(But I give him credit for sticking with his team instead of flip-flopping to the Yankees like Hilary Clinton did when they moved to New York.)

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Get this...

Dontrelle’s first start for Arizona is scheduled for Saturday. If he stays in the rotation for 3 starts and they keep the same rotation his 3rd start will fall on June 20th… in Detroit

by tigers22 on Jun 2, 2010 10:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Armando FIRST story on ESPN. :)

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Jun 2, 2010 10:58 PM EDT reply actions  

"Nobody's perfect," he says

about the ump. Bitter irony.

Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes

by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 2, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

He made a mistake

Jim Joyce admitted to the mistake. Personally, I’ve made a few mistakes in my job, but I was fortunate enough not to have them replayed in front of millions of people. Lets give the guy a little credit for admitting he was wrong.

by RealityIsOptionable on Jun 2, 2010 10:59 PM EDT reply actions  

That's why I'm not in on the Jim Joyce hate

I just want Armando to get what’s due him.

Tigers Amateur Analysis

Doña of the VZ Mafia

by SabreRoseTiger on Jun 2, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yep.

I feel bad for him already. I would think that it doesn’t make it (too much) better, but this will go a long way in helping everyone move on.

by SpartanNate on Jun 2, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of my housemates said she wished she had a video camera to record my reaction

It probably would have been pretty popular on youtube. She was laughing at me most of the time, which was okay because I scared everyone else out of the room. Oh well. No shame.

by kendra.michelle on Jun 3, 2010 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm joining the long list of furious Tigers fans

who are clamoring for MLB to reverse the botched call and give Armando his deserved perfecto.

It came to mind that Joyce’s botched call might have not been a conscious decision; maybe he felt so much mental pressure at that moment he did the opposite of what he intended to do. Kind of like saying the wrong name during your wedding vows? Not to excuse it, but think of an explanation. Just a thought.

Not that it’s not still mind-boggling that he did it.

by owllover711 on Jun 3, 2010 1:04 AM EDT reply actions  

That's the best shot of the play that I've seen

Clearly shows he was out. I haven’t posted anything here at all tonight yet because in no way would it have been safe for me to be near something as breakable and expensive as a computer during the aftermath of that game. But I’m sure I reacted quite the same way many of you did: shaking and screaming obscenities at the television. I was at first incredibly pissed at Jim Joyce, but now I just feel bad for him too. He knows he made a mistake, and he feels awful. At this point all we can hope for is an overruling of the call to solidify it in the history books as a perfect game, or at least for it to be counted as one with an asterisk. I mean come on, it’s the first 28-out perfect game in history. And it kills me that this had to happen to Armando. After all the adversity he’s faced, for him to do something this spectacular is indescribable, and for the achievement of a lifetime to be taken away from him on one bad call is inexcusable.

by kendra.michelle on Jun 3, 2010 2:24 AM EDT reply actions  

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