Joel Zumaya leaves game with elbow injury
by Kurt Mensching on Jun 29, 2010 1:10 AM EDT
in Detroit Tigers News
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Pitching in the eighth inning, Joel Zumaya collapsed to the ground following a pitch to Delmon Young. You'll see the video I'm sure. It's not an easy one to watch.
Shoulder? Elbow? Speculation in the gamethread and on Twitter was immediate, but there was no real indication from Zumaya or anyone else where the pain might be originating from. (See updates: The latest news report from MLB.com's Jason Beck says that it was his elbow and an MRI will be done to find the severity.) It was obvious something was bothering him, as his hand shook and he fought a losing battle against tears. Eventually Zumaya was able to walk off the mound with some assistance while he cradled his arm to his chest.
With Zumaya it was always a battle of his body against time. Nearly yearly since his sophomore season he has had a setback of some sort take away a large part of his season. Each time his immediate reaction is to believe it's career ending. So far, that hasn't been the case. While this season may again be taken away from Zumaya, let's just hope his worst fears do not come true.
Updates:
- Gerald Laird reported on the post game he heard a pop when Zumaya threw the pitch.
- Fellow SB Nation site Lookout Landing has two gifs. I'm just going to link them because they're pretty hard to watch. Animation 1, Animation 2.
- Jim Leyland said in the post game that Zumaya would have an MRI in the morning but "it didn't look good."
- Per Jason Beck on twitter: "Elbow injury for Zumaya. Will have MRI tomorrow. He's up and walking around clubhouse, arm in sling. He said he'll talk tomorrow." More at Beck's Blog.
- MLive has a story too.
Tuesday updates:
- MLB.com has the video. There's nothing grotesque about it but it's still real hard to watch.
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Gah
Saw the injury on Sportscenter, reminded me of Dave Dravecky. Hopefully he recovers. It would be a shame if that ends his career like Dravecky.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
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I have two speculations. One for a shoulder injury and one for an elbow injury...
- The previous shoulder injuries more than likely weakened Joels shoulder. His reliance on improperly loading his scapula caused an injury within the shoulder due to said weakness.
- Due to a weakened shoulder, Joel attempted to add velocity by overcompensating in loading rate on his elbow and over torquing his elbow.
Either way it’s not good. I wish you the best Joel.
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I think your speculation #2 is the correct diagnosis
You have to feel for the kid. He looked to be in so much pain and the way his hand was twitching you know it was severe trauma
it's his over all mechanics before this injury that have me thinking shoulder though...
because that was where the injury risk was before all this. We see him hold his elbow, but we’re not entirely sure why yet.
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but the point was just made to me from @iamboney on twitter...
@madpoopz watching sbnation’s gif, his wrist breaks below his elbow plane. he released the ball under his elbow and whiplashed it.
all we can do is wait for some kind of official word.
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Cardinals fan checking in
I’d guess that’s gotta be a bone injury more than any shoulder/elbow type of thing. You can blow out your UCL 50% and still barely feel it until you rotate your arm the wrong way. It surely wouldn’t put you in grown-man-cry pain when you stop moving it. I also doubt he could have too weak of a shoulder and be able to throw 102 mph like he has been doing this year. I’d say this is more his arm exploding from being 98-103 on every pitch he throws.
But I’m not a doctor so I’m probably wrong.
Not afraid to nitpick
well my guess is that he's reaching those velocities by over compensating.
the question is if it’s his shoulder or his elbow. Now my best guess is elbow.
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I don't really know how one overcompensates to get to 102 mph
Everything has to be working at the human maximum possible limits to get to that as is, there just can’t be a weak link to begin with. We’re talking like 3 guys in history if even that who are rumored to be that high, and likely in reality Zumaya averaging 99.3 this year is the fastest thrower in the history of baseball.
Not afraid to nitpick
when there is a weak link in the kinetic chain...
in this case Zumaya’s shoulder, the lost velocity is gained back by over compensating in other area’s. To gain velocity due to a weakened shoulder by several previous injuries, Zumaya probably started to over torque his elbow and increase his loading rate on it as well. Most of his velocity comes from proper stride length and hip rotation. The extra “oomph” comes from the shoulder, elbow, etc. He may have previously been physically able to handle the scapular loading he was putting his body through, but after the injuries he may have sub-consciously started using a part of his body not physically able to handle that sort of torque and loading, his elbow.
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That's what I'm saying though
We’re talking 102 mph, there necessarily can’t be a weak link in the kinetic chain, if there was anything, then he can’t throw 102 mph. I mean no one can throw 102 and he did it with semi-regularity from what I’ve seen, everything along the kinetic chain had to be operating at the maximum human limits or you can’t throw that hard.
Especially in the shoulder where any injury seems to cause velocity loss that can’t be compensated for in mortal pitchers, let alone a guy at the limits of possibility.
Not afraid to nitpick
I get what your saying...
but maybe I can explain my point better.
Zumaya’s altered, over compensating on the elbow, mechanics are an improper kinetic chain for the act of pitching. While his mechanics of old may have not been entirely correct, they were more correct for executing a more proper kinetic chain. Having an improper kinetic chain doesn’t necessarily mean that a pitcher will experience diminished pitching performance. An improper chain merely increases chance of injury.
I’ve spent alot of time watching lots of different pitchers, pausing video, slowing down video, taking screenshots. Every pitcher does something wrong and every pitcher increases their injury risk in some way. There are other pitchers out there that reach 100+ (JV to name one) who have different mechanics than Joel. At some point, for Zumaya’s build, his mechanics offered the least possible risk to his body to pitch at that velocity.
I cannot say with any entire certainty that Zumaya regained his velocity by over torquing or over loading his elbow. Nor can I say that his shoulder was ever truly weakened by previous injuries. All I can say that my previous analysis of a healthy Joel combined with what I have learned from studying pitching mechanics is that this is the most logical cause of his injury, or at least the precipitating event that weakened his elbow.
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Well I know Zumaya had a very dangerous arm action
But I just can’t believe he could possibly throw 102 with a damaged shoulder to any degree.
Too put it succinctly in Super Troopers style: he’s already pulled over! He can’t pull over any farther!
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Jun 29, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely awful news.
There’s no other way to say it. He’s lost the better part of two seasons to horrible injuries and mediocre numbers. This season the Zumaya we all love came back with tenacity and became the fun guy pitching we remember.
I hope it’s not career-ending but man, from everyone’s descriptions? It doesn’t sound good for the guy.
The worst part? We'll always wonder what might have been.
Unbelievable.
by ChrisDTX on Jun 28, 2010 11:56 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I was watching the Twins feed since I am currently in Minneapolis
and their announcers jinxed him! They were just talking about how the Tigers need him to be healthy when he got hurt. I blame it on them
entirely possible that he is.
or maybe on a plane to a preferred specialist. jim was probably just shocked and trying to be calm with the media.
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No Run Support
immediately after an injury there is swelling in reaction to the insult
MRIs aren’t as informative if swelling tissue is in the way. Usually doctors wait for the swelling to go down before they take an image – otherwise it might just be a waste of time.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
I'm no doctor
I think its a nerve injury with all the twitching his arm was doing
In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
OT
Eckstein just scrapped his way to the first hit off Jimenez. Gritty.
by ChrisDTX on Jun 29, 2010 12:03 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
per jason beck
@beckjason: Elbow injury for Zumaya. Will have MRI tomorrow. He’s up and walking around clubhouse, arm in sling. He said he’ll talk tomorrow.
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No Run Support
Per Beck it's the elbow
I actually think that’s better news.
by ChrisDTX on Jun 29, 2010 12:07 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
So who do we have for the seventh and eighth innings, now?
Zoomer is out. Perry is out and was horrible when he was in.
Ni is awful. Coke has been good lately. Brad Thomas and Enrique have been serviceable, but c’mon! Bonine is fine, but in long relief or middle innings.
Maybe Zach Simons, Jay Sborz, or Weinhardt get the call up.
I think Perry was battling injury his last few times out
He was pretty good before that. He’ll be up pretty soon. In the immediate future? Wouldn’t be surprised if Sborz is right back.
by ChrisDTX on Jun 29, 2010 12:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
perry is still rehabbing
I don’t recall where I read it but I think they said he needs to get in another game before being recalled
Weinhardt is still with the short season team rehabbing, he guessed recently that he’d be ready by a week from now.
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Watching that Zumaya video on my phone that I showed you.
Sad.
by ChrisDTX on Jun 29, 2010 12:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'd say the odds favor Sborz
They need help immediately with the state of the pen currently.
Sborz is already on the 40 man roster.
Schlereth is also, but he has serious control issues, still.
Casey Fien and Zach Simons have been great in Toledo and Erie, respectively.
trying to get tv is impossible tonight
hey did you guys know strasburg pitched tonight?!?!?
i'm ok with the hype
guy’s a great pitcher, deserves some hype i think. but i think mlb network just showed every pitch of his as part of the recap.
strasburg throws 97 pitches, strasburg even took some ABs, strasburg in the all star game? oh yeah braves won we think.
by redwingxviii on Jun 29, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
freaking MLB network
hasn’t said one freaking word about Tigers or Zumaya, too freaking busy talking about Starsburg and Jiminez
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 29, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
i know!
i have been watching since the game’s end – did i miss something?
the only thing i heard so far was “thome tripled and hit a home run”
by redwingxviii on Jun 29, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
just mentioned Zumaya now - barely
went right on to talk about Porcello for 2 seconds and then moved on to Padres’ pen
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 29, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
gonna read about it tomorrow i guess
sigh. i was hoping to wait up until they said “4-6 weeks, don’t worry about it”
by redwingxviii on Jun 29, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm switching to ESPN as I climb into bed
g’nite BYBers, GO TIGERS, Get Well SOON Zoom !!!!!
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jun 29, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
lol - we just got 2 sentences
“tigers have a good bullpen. zumaya got hurt”
“let’s talk about the padres bullpen!”
by redwingxviii on Jun 29, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
STRASBURG lost again, I think he is now 1-3 he lost 3 games that he pitched in, i’m over him!
by '' spiderman '' on Jun 29, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Strasburg/Nationals fans, take note.
I don’t wish this upon anybody… but I can’t help but worry for a guy pitching close to Zumaya’s speed over so many more innings…
Different type of pitcher, different physiology, different mechanics
Not saying Strasburg will never get hurt, but Zumaya is a max-effort guy.
by ChrisDTX on Jun 29, 2010 12:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Horrible News.
Not surprising as we all know with Joel that this could happen on any pitch. I just hope he can come back next season. We seem to say this every year and man this one just did not look good.
by BennieBladesFan on Jun 29, 2010 12:24 AM EDT reply actions
I can't imagine trying to sleep with the kind of pain he exhibited.
I hope this doesn’t end his career. When he comes back, low nineties with the slider.
Hey guys, Braves fan here. Wishin Zoom all the best – he’s really fun to watch, and all of us over at Talking Chop wish him a speedy recovery
HUMAN TEAMMATE HEYWARD JASON FOR FRANCHISE MVP AFTER TAKING MATTERS INTO OWN HANDS AND REMOVING MCLOUTH NATE FROM LINEUP
Thinking some more
I don’t think I’ve seen a guy suffer a serious injury on a pitch and still have it clock 99 mph. The ball usually goes to the backstop when something really bad happens. Just rationalizing, I guess.
by ChrisDTX on Jun 29, 2010 12:38 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
So what's the best case here?
He broke his arm?
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I'd say that's probably best-case scenario
My armchair diagnosis is that he dislocated his elbow, and consequently tore ligaments in there. Seems to be consistent with how they were holding up the arm when he came off.
by ChrisDTX on Jun 29, 2010 12:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that's best case.
most likely he popped his elbow out and did some ligament damage.
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just saw the news joel zumaya - elbow injury
it doesn’t look good for joel, maybe ,he is done in baseball, but, everyone hopes for the best of luck as far as, joel zumaya goes but neverless, a MRI will be performed so to how sever!
by '' spiderman '' on Jun 29, 2010 1:10 AM EDT reply actions
W O W TIGERS ARE IN 1ST PLACE IN THE CENTRAL!
by '' spiderman '' on Jun 29, 2010 1:13 AM EDT reply actions
what happens to the tigers bullpen?. still have coke & valverda but otherwise who is set to set-up in 7, 8?……ni,bonine,coke,jzorg,valverda….ummm, with the lost of joel in the bullpen not good!
by '' spiderman '' on Jun 29, 2010 1:32 AM EDT reply actions
I saw where Laird said
he heard a pop. Never a good thing. Z is likely on the shelf the rest of the year and with his injury record, I worry about his career. Hate to see a thing like that happen.
That's what I'm thinking.
Unfortunately.
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by madpoopz on Jun 29, 2010 11:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Isn't that what everyone always says?
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by David Tokarz on Jun 29, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
This one's different
Injury isn’t what we’ve seen before, usually he just complains of discomfort and whatnot. This time he was under serious pain. The bone he injured is more delicate than a typical bone injury, there’s no telling he’ll ever regain his full range of motion.
by handsomerob1 on Jun 29, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
tigers bullpen is era 3.54 still pretty good, but.....................
I’m considered since, joel nolonger pitching for the tigers this year, that means, tigers bullpen has to step-up, imagine both side of the spectrum [H] and [A]…..IF the tigers are ahead in 7 inning and beyond- thomas or bonine, 8th inning coke, 9th valverde to close altho, gonzales could be inserted in certain situitions or ni if he pitching well,I almost forgot , fien , atho, he isn’t worthy to mention, so – bonine 3-0, era 2.50 coke 5-0 ,era 2.84 thomas 4-0 era 4.46 valverde of course off the charts with 18sv 1-1 era.530 collectively, the tigers bullpen at ~ 3.54 this year so far…I hope it will contuinue!…GO TIGERS – beat the damn twinkies tonight!
by '' spiderman '' on Jun 29, 2010 1:28 PM EDT reply actions
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