Jim Leyland: Tigers in the market for relief help
by BigAl on Jul 10, 2010 4:25 PM EDT
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintRemember my post of a few days ago pondering what position group the Tigers would attempt to shore up at the trade deadline?
Well, ponder no more.
With Joel Zumaya's elbow turning into so much paper mache, Fu-Te Ni being unable to get out anyone, let alone lefties, which led to his being sent down, Ryan Perry remaining a question mark (I'm sure Friday's rotten outing raised plenty of questions with the Tigers' brass), and the Tigers using Jose Valverde more and more in non-save situations (such as his appearance in Friday's 7-3 win), Jim Leyland has admitted the Tigers are in the market for bullpen arms.
Once again, it's Jason Beck of MLB.com with the money quote:
"We would like to shore up our bullpen with maybe a little more of a veteran guy or something, if he's out there," Leyland said Saturday afternoon. "I don't know if they are out there or not. I'll leave it at that.
But Leyland didn't leave it at that...
"I'm not saying it has to be a veteran, veteran reliever. Somebody that's maybe had a little more experience. We aren't going to lie about it. We'd like to have that. It's pretty tough to have as many kids as we have down there now."
The Tigers have become amazingly dependent upon their young players...who have never been through the rigors and pressures of a big time pennant race. So I can agree with the need for some veteran arms in the pen.
The non-waiver trade deadline is still 3+ weeks away, so we're still not sure exactly who will be available, and what will the cost be. Maybe what I should ask is this; how much are the Tigers willing to pay?
There's one thing worth noting with this admission. Out of all the positions most often mentioned in need of help (SP, SS, C, RP), trading for relief pitching will be the least costly in terms of players/prospects/cash.
The AL Central is there for the taking. The Tigers know it, and Leyland believes the front office will act accordingly.
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Get Brandon Lyon
Lyon was offered a two year contract by the Tigers after he declined arbitration and before he signed with Houston, long before the Tigers signed Valverde. If he signed, he’s have been the Tigers closer. But he did a stellar job for the Tigers as Rodney’s set up man in 2009. His three year, $ 15 million contract was considered excessive by just about everyone in the business, and it is, but he’d be a very good addition to the Tigers at this stage, and the Strohs have Lindstrom as their closer. They aren’t going anywhere for a while (years, IMO). Lyon should be available as a salary dump for them.
Lyon's contract + Valverde's contract = poor resource allocation
by ChrisDTX on Jul 10, 2010 4:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I would generally agree with that, Chris, except
DD has always made a top priority of paying for bullpen help, especially closers.
Though no team has spent less on free agents, or signed fewer free agents since 2006 than the Tigers, DD has always made an exception for closers. Granted that Lyon was brought in to be a closer in 2009, but wound up in a set up role. He was paid $ 4.25 million.
The Tigers have some $ 60 to $ 75 million coming off the books, with only one significant raise coming (Verlander’s $ 6 mil) and no significant arbitration cases (just Miner, Galarraga, Raburn and Zumaya are arb eligible).
There is a strong need for set up help. I don’t like the choices that Leyland has to work with for set up men. If Lyon could hold a couple more games for us and it made the difference in the pennant race, that would be a very good allocation of resources. NOT addressing the issue would be a bigger waste.
agreed
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 10, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
-1
This is what our competition is spending on set-up men and closers this season:
NYY- Rivera ($15) + Marte ($4) = $19 M
Minn- Nathan ($11.25M) + Guerrier (3.15M) = $14.4 M
ANA – Fuentes ($9) + Rodney ( $5.5M,) = $14.4
BOS- Papelbon ($9.35) + Okajima ($2.75) = $12.1 M
CLE- Wood ($10.5) + Perez ( 0.795M) = $11.295
CHW Jenks ($7.5) + Putz ($3) = $10.5 M Soriano ($7.25) + Wheeler ($3.5) = $10.75 M
TB
DET – Valverde ($7M) + Seay ( $2.475M)= $9.247
Valverde + Lyon($4.25M) = $11.25M = Poor resource allocation? That’s completely wrong compared to others.
Looking at our entire pen-
Jose Valverde – $14M / 2 years + option year
Bobby Seay $2.475M $1M
Brad Thomas
Zach Miner -$0.95M
Joel Zumaya -$0.915M
$4.4 Million of our money is tied up on DL, and if we have Insurance on these guys, we’ll get some of that money back.
formatting
With dashes on either side of text it converts to strikethroughs. Previewing the comment can check for that, and adding extra spaces will eliminate the problem.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
I figured that out myself when some of my comments did the same thing. :)
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
Teams have two set up men, however
Any way you slice it, the Tigers have the money available going forward.
With all the young guns down on the farm in the pipeline, DD may opt for a rental. Probably a righty to pair with Coke. I’d give Robbie and some of the other young guys a shot first, though. There’s time before the deadline. Unless some team wants to dump a salary and help us out.
Some Names who come to mind
But may be a bit more pricy are.. Manny Corpas (COL), Brandon League (SEA), Evan Meek (PIT)
B.Inge's facial hair advisor
Rod Allen's humor consultant
I'd like League
Or someone from TOR. Trade a farm system relief arm now for one with more experience.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 10, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
As would I
I’ve always liked him. Seems like a good fit. Plus, his arm sleeve tattoos would fit right in with our collection (Brandon, Bondo, Papa Grande, Perry, Zumaya).
B.Inge's facial hair advisor
Rod Allen's humor consultant
League's been downright awful.
Someone’s convinced him to keep throwing fastballs above all else. It’d take time to fix him; not worth trading with Seattle for.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Wonder what it'd take to get him
Maybe not much? Wonder if theres any chance we could throw them 2 older arms vs. 1 young arm. Thomas? Maybe they’re in need of a lefty
B.Inge's facial hair advisor
Rod Allen's humor consultant
Due to collapse
And would cost us too much.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 10, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Man I have been on the League bandwagon for awhile. Love his pitching style. I might get his jersey.
by bmark6197 on Jul 10, 2010 6:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't know
why the Tigers have been drafting the crap out of relief pitchers, only to look outside the organization for another relief pitcher. Experience means little to me – Valverde and Coke have plenty of late inning experience, plenty of young relievers have had great success in pennant races and playoffs, and Leyland himself has said that he likes talent over experience. Hell, I’ve seen Zumaya and Ledezma be big contributors for a Leyland-managed pennant winner.
Unless somebody is willing to trade us a quality setup guy for Iorg, we are better off just pulling up power arms and running them out there until somebody sticks.
I think that's a good point. They are calling up several of the young guns from the farm with mixed success.
Weinhardt, Fien, Sborz, Perry, and Schlereth have gotten the call already.
Simons, Wise, and a couple of the above are still waiting in the wings.
I think that Schlereth was mistakenly called up to replace Ni because he’s a lefty. A 1.60 WHIP in the minors should’ve told them that he wasn’t ready for showtime. Perry isn’t quite a late inning guy in my book, but Coke is. That’s just me, and I’d use Coke against lefties and righties alike. Some have called for Coke to be a starter, yet JL pulls him as soon as a righty comes up quite often. If he’s effective, leave him alone and don’t burn up another pitcher.
I believe that, because of all the young arms in the system, DD is more likely to acquire a veteran that’s under contract only for this season, maybe one more year.
Here’s the full list of next winter’s free agent crop of relievers, courtesy of MLBTR
Closers
Octavio Dotel (37) – $4.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Frank Francisco (31)
Jason Frasor (33)
Brian Fuentes (35) – $9MM option vests with 55 games finished in 2010
Kevin Gregg (33) – $4.5MM club option for ‘11, $8.75MM for ’11-’12
Trevor Hoffman (43) – mutual option worth $7-8.5MM; buyout at $500K-1MM
Chad Qualls (32)
Mariano Rivera (41)
Rafael Soriano (31)
Billy Wagner (39) – $6.5MM option vests with 50 games finished
Kerry Wood (34) – $11MM club option, vests with 55 games finished in 2010
Right-handed relievers
Luis Ayala (33)
Grant Balfour (33)
Miguel Batista (40)
Joaquin Benoit (33)
Kiko Calero (36)
Jesus Colome (33)
Jose Contreras (39)
Jesse Crain (29)
Juan Cruz (30) – $4MM club option with a $500K buyout
Brendan Donnelly (39)
Chad Durbin (33)
Kelvim Escobar (34)
Kyle Farnsworth (35) – $5.25MM club option with a $500K buyout
Josh Fogg (34)
Matt Guerrier (32)
Aaron Heilman (32)
Matt Herges (41)
Bob Howry (37) – $3MM club option with a $250K buyout
Mike Lincoln (36)
Mike MacDougal (34)
Seth McClung (30)
Justin Miller (33)
Guillermo Mota (37)
Chan Ho Park (38)
J.J. Putz (34)
Jon Rauch (32)
Juan Rincon (32)
David Riske (34) – $4.75MM club option with a $250K buyout
Takashi Saito (41)
Scot Shields (35)
Justin Speier (37)
Claudio Vargas (33)
Tyler Walker (35)
Jeff Weaver (34)
Dan Wheeler (33) – $4MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Jamey Wright (36)
There is nothing at 3B for Detroit.
Inge is here, like it or not.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Not really.
Larish has 50 games, career wise, at 3B, most of them coming this year. I don’t think that leads to being a viable 3B candidate. Maybe Raburn (dear lord) but Larish?
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Not Raburn. A three legged mule would be better than Raburn at third base.
Apparently, Larish has been doing fairly well in the field at third this season. I still think he will hit in the majors when given regular playing time. He’s hit at every level he has played, it always takes time to adjust, and he has excellent recognition of the strike zone and plate discipline.
Inge will be there as long as he’s hitting somewhat, but he hit under .190 last July, and August, and September. He was a major drain on the offense.
Yeah, we'll see this year how much of that was his torn up knees.
I’m curious about Larish; I’d like to see him get a chance to actually hit at the ML level.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Inge was streaky long before he had issues with his knees.
He’s always been streaky, going half a season on a tear and then half a season being useless at the plate. I’m afraid that he’ll always be streaky.
The number of out of zone plays are way down this year, and his ranking defensively has dropped to sixth on the fangraphs UZR chart.
Streaky players happen.
He isn’t the first, he isn’t the last. I hope his defense doesn’t drop off a cliff, that this is just the after effects of his surgery because 3B looks so barren, system wide.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Just because you draft a bunch of relief pitchers
Doesn’t mean they’re all going to be studs within 2 years. The 2008 draft was not very long ago.
Agree, but...
didn’t DD say last year that there were 10 “Major League ready” relief arms in the Tiger farm system? And that was before they traded for Coke and Schlereth and signed the Big Potato and the Wanker. So, aside from Mr. “Wainwright”, where are the rest of them?
Of course, I think it was in the same press conference that DD called Cale Iorg the “shortstop of the future” and stated “Cale Iorg will be an All Star sooner than most people think.”
Maybe DD had been out partying with Miggy right before that presser.
"All aboard!"
Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
Weinhardt is looking great out of the pen.
if he keeps it up a trade might not be as necessary.
I don’t really think it’s all that necessary anyway.
I'd like sticking with Robbie as a late inning guy
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 10, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Concentrate on...
Catcher SS and another SP Relief corps is fine. Verlander and Scherzer, with their constant high pitch counts will both where done during the dog days of August. Need to shore up 7 thru 9 in the order, which means dumping Laird and getting a better twosome at SS and behind the plate than what they now have. Dan Haren and Stephen Drew would be a big help. As to another catcher? Don’t know who might be out there to fill that need? Judging by how long they have put up with Laird I would say there isn’t much to be had on that front
that's quite a wish list
what’s on the other side of those trades?
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 10, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
or as Johhny Damon would say
“Robbie Wainwright” haha
Prolly not the best place for this..
but I just wanna say Hi. I just joined yesterday and wanna become more familiar with the Tigers. I’m more or less a bandwagon fan, my main love is hockey (the Colorado Avalanche), but during the off-season I watch Baseball since they play about every single day. I’m interested in getting to know more than the average fan since I have nothing else to put my passion of hockey into during the down time. I’m a Detroit native and like all Detroit Sports minus the Red Wings.
howdy
we have a pretty good community here of fans. we can even handle…avalanche fans. our head editor is a sharks fan, so if we wings fans can put up with him, we can put up with you.
a good way to join in the action is to try to talk in one of the gamethreads during a game. if you can watch the game or even just follow updates online, it’s a nice way to share emotions and fun times.
I Like Pie
I Dislike Raburn
Welcome to the bandwagon!
But don’t look here for insight into the average fan—we are all above average!
Oops, I just realized I misread your post
Thought you wanted insight into the average fan. Clearly I am not above average when it comes to paying attenti…what was I saying?
booo!
Sorry, Avalanche reflex. :)
Welcome! Everyone here is pretty open about answering questions. I am also hockey and baseball because that way the entire year is covered.
Seconded on the game threads. They move pretty fast, but if you are used to commenting along with a hockey game you’ll get the hang of it. Plus the pace of a baseball game lends itself more to conversation than hockey does. This is a cool group of players to follow. I think you will like them a lot.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
I am also a hockey and baseball FAN
Duh. Typing fail.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
After about half an hour hanging out here, you'll be above average.
Now, go read fangraphs.com, familiarize yourself with the alphabet soup in the glossary, and you’ll become an expert among experts. Another suggestion is to join a second half fantasy baseball league, and you become familiar with all the players in the game as you search for players to help your team. Soon, you’ll have no spare time at all to worry about filling up until they drop the puck again in October!
read the link on our saber 101 stuff on the sidebar for the most-used stats here
but for the most part I try to keep my writing simple and accessible. I also try to explain that some popular fan notions aren’t accurate. Hopefully you like the place and learn a thing or two. Thanks for visiting!
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 11, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the Welcome
I’m pretty familiar with the Tigers, I watch my fair share of SportsCenter and Tigers Live and I watch most of the Tigers games (love bar specials!). I’m not too familiar with the rest of the league but I’m sure that’ll come in time. It does appear that we do need some better relievers and I thought we might have been in the running for Cliff Lee (heard him for Boesch straight up). My Tigers were D Young, Craig Monroe, and Granderson til they left the team, my Tigers now are Zumaya (hurt AGAIN) and Cabrera.
by Avalanche318 on Jul 11, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt the mariners would have done that
and i’m not actually sweating it about the relievers either. Tigers need better starting pitching and a shortstop more than they need a reliever.
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 11, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been trying
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 11, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
SP= Haren. SS= Drew. C= Snyder. Crosby, Worth, Stribey, Galarraga, Laird and a low A guy. Arizona has to at least eat some of our salaries for a change.
Wouldn't be enough.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 11, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
hey, look at this name
put it all together, I got a laugh
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 11, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we pleeeease stop with the awful trade offers?
There is no way in a million years that deal would ever go down. Since 2007, only one pitcher has been more valuable than Dan Haren, and his name is Roy Halladay.
When you’re receiving premium talent (Stephen Drew is not, but he’s worlds better than Danny Worth), 99% of the time you have to give up talent of equal value even if it’s upside. There’s no reason for Arizona to downgrade their SS/C/SP situations for a couple of guys that aren’t even prospects, a 24 year old DH who’s sporting a .760 OPS in Toledo, and another who’s got lots of upside but can’t stay healthy (and hasn’t pitched above A ball).
You really want Dan Haren (and the others)? The offer starts at either Porcello or Turner plus 2 or 3 of Detroit’s best prospects. There’s nothing wrong with giving up things that are that valuable when you’re getting tons of value in return.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 12, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
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