Detroit Tigers burning questions: At the All-Star break edition
Let me put it this way. The Tigers are right where I thought they'd be, but they over-achieved to get there.
How does that make sense? If I were asked before the season where the Tigers would be in the standings if these 10 things* happened...
1. Scott Sizemore would be overwhelmed at the plate, and sent down to Toledo to regain his stroke.
2. Carlos Guillen would miss a significant amount of time due to an injury...then replace Sizemore as the everyday 2nd baseman.
3. Rick Porcello was also sent down to Toledo due to his utter ineffectiveness.
4. The Tigers' planned setup men would have major issues; Joel Zumaya and his marvelous arm would break down...again, and Ryan Perry would struggle to get anyone out.
5. The catching combo of Gerald Laird and Alex Avila would have trouble hitting Jim Leyland's cholesterol count.
6. Adam Everett would be released for...you got it...ineffectiveness, to be replaced by a utility man platoon of Ramon Santiago and Danny Worth.
7. Brandon Inge would spend the first 2 months of the season hitting like the Inge of August/September 2009.
8. Dontrelle Willis would flame out as a starter, ultimately being traded due to...yes, ineffectiveness.
9. There would be only one starting pitcher (Justin Verlander) with a winning record at the All-Star break.
10. Jim Leyland would not be able to smoke his beloved Marlboro reds ANYWHERE in Comerica Park.
*That's not including Ryan Raburn proving his breakout 2009 season was a fluke, the Tigers regularly playing 4 rookies in their everyday lineup, Max Scherzer being sent down, then returning to Detroit become the number two starter, and Johnny Damon starting to show his age.
...I would have said I'd be spending my summer watching a team fighting with the Royals to stay out of last place, and would start blowing out veteran players at the trade deadline in preparation for a run in 2011.
Instead, I'm watching a team that should be in the playoff hunt for the entire season, and will be looking for veteran help at the trade deadline.
When you really think about it, factoring in all the injuries, roster churn and down seasons by key players, the Tigers playing well over .500 ball is simply miraculous.
Even though the Tigers took a long, winding road to get there, they are in the playoff hunt. What do they need to do at the trade deadline?
Well, last weekend Leyland announced the Tigers would be on the prowl for a veteran bullpen arm or three. So we can add that to the July shopping list. At shortstop, the Tigers are running with a pair of players they consider utility men, so we can definitely say short will be part of their window shopping.
But there is a more glaring need.
Thanks to the emergence of Brennan Boesch and Austin Jackson as offensive threats, the Tigers have a good enough offense. They could likely muddle through the season with a Santiago/Worth platoon at short, and worry about fixing the position in the off season. Thanks to Dave Dombrowski's loading up on big arms in the amateur draft, they have bullpen arms to burn in the minors. The Tigers can keep throwing relievers against the wall to see who sticks (Robbie Weinhardt, for example). But being the rotation has turned into "Verlander, Scherzer, then pray for three days of rain", the most glaring need is for a starting pitcher.
In house, it's hard to see much help in filling out the rotation. The Tigers are rolling the dice in giving Porcello a start this weekend, but aren't committing to any more...yet. As he's been inconsistent, at best, since joining the Mud Hens, Porcello has yet to prove he can regain his late 2009 form. Jeremy Bonderman has turned into a bottom of the rotation journeyman, Armando Galarraga is a bottom of the rotation journeyman, and the fifth starter spot has become an adventure in futility. The current fifth starter, Andrew Oliver, isn't the answer. Not this season, anyway.
So Dombrowski's job over the next three weeks is to solidify the rotation.
You say the Tigers NEED to pick up a starting pitcher. What will they actually GET at the non-waiver trade deadline on July 31st?
As every GM in baseball wants more pitching, and the cost in players to get even a league average starting pitcher is going to disembowel the farm system, the Tigers will fall short in their search for a number three rotation arm. They'll likely settle for a veteran bullpen arm and more importantly, an everyday shortstop. (Where's there's smoke, there's fire, and there seems to be plenty of smoke around the Diamondbacks' Stephen Drew)
The Tigers best hope in fixing a stumbling rotation is Rick Porcello pulling a Scherzer, and showing he has his act together after his minor league stint. Stranger things have happened, right?
Obviously, the story of the first half is the emergence of Brennan Boesch as one of the AL's best hitters. Will Boesch continue to hit like the next coming of Hank Greenburg, Norm Cash and Kirk Gibson combined?
No. I don't think any of us believe Boesch will continue to hit over .340.
But there's no reason to think Boesch won't continue to be the answer to a long, long, long-time Tigers need; a left handed power hitting outfielder.
Over the years, I have cried long and loud for the Tigers to pick up a corner outfielder with big time pop, preferably left-handed. In April, Boesch drops in their laps like so much manna from heaven, swinging the bat like he was born to play in the big leagues.
Even if Boesch cools off, there's no reason to believe he can't become a 25-30 home run, .280 hitting mainstay in the middle of the Tigers' lineup, a Steve Kemp for the new millennium. It's one thing to do what Boesch has done for a few weeks. Lots of young players have over the years.
It's altogether another to perform at such a high level for three months. Boesch is here to stay.
Will the Big Potato, Papa Grande himself, Jose Valverde, reach his stated goal of 74 saves?
It's not going to happen. But he will break the Tigers' one season record of 42 set by the Roller Coaster, Todd Jones, in 2000.
I have to admit I was wro...wronnnn...wrrrr...wrong about the Tigers' off season signing of Valverde. He's having a career season, and been their best pitcher in the first half.
Could the Tigers have found a closer somewhere in their system? Sure. But could they have found a lights out, no doubt about the 9th inning guy? I honestly doubt it.
Valverde has allowed us to finally put away the Pepto Bismol we needed to get through all those 9th innings when Jones was "pitching to contact." The Big Potato would rather pitch to get guys out.
Will Miguel Cabrera win the Triple Crown?
Nope, but he will be the AL MVP.
We're watching a player blossom into one of the very best hitters of his era. We should consider ourselves damn lucky in being able to witness it. Even better, we'll get to see Cabrera, a player with hall of fame talent, in the prime of his career over the next few seasons.
AL pitchers have to be cowering in their spikes just thinking about it.
Any other predictions, Carnac?
Justin Verlander becomes the Tigers' first 20 game winner since Bill Gullickson in 1991. (Yes, it's been almost 20 years!)
Alex Avila plays well enough in the season half to solidify his position as the Tigers' starting catcher going into 2011.
Gerald Laird is released.
Brandon Inge plays well enough to earn a contract extension.
The Ryan Raburn era comes to an end, as he is the extra part in a trade for NL pitching.
The Detroit/Toledo shuttle runs non-stop, filled with various bullpen arms.
Don Kelly sticks around for the entire season.
Carlos Guillen goes back on the DL (That's not a prediction, it's a GIVEN!), Scott Sizemore gets a second chance to prove himself a big league player...and succeeds.
Rick Porcello pitches well enough to stick...but we continue to hold out breath in every start.
OK, smart guy, predict this! Where do the Tigers finish?
I said before the season the Tigers would win the Central with 84 wins. I still think they win the Central, but do so with 88 wins.
Do you actually believe it?
The Tigers shouldn't be anywhere near contention, yet they are in the thick of a three team battle for the Central. So this entire season has required me to suspend my disbelief. There's no reason to stop now...
Feel free to make your own predictions in the comments!
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Comments
Laird
If he starts hitting even a little, he’s going to be a type B. Unless someone in the minors starts raking or they get a decent catcher in trade, this alone is probably enough reason to keep him instead of calling up Diaz or something.
I think you're right
I really wouldn’t mind having him around for another year or two at a basement rate just for an adequate backup to Avila. I really believe that Bryan Holaday will be up within 2 years to take the reigns and be our guy
B.Inge's facial hair advisor
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Why the faith in Holaday?
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 14, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
No specific reason
Just have a good feeling
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Johnny Bench 5/5 in debut at Lakeland
A sure sign
by Hack Johnson on Jul 14, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
type b, starting even a little?
think it was 62 or 63 beginning of june, in danger of falling into 50’s, no compensation?
by Hack Johnson on Jul 14, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I have pretty much all the same predictions you do.
I would be a little surprised if Laird is released… though if a trade brings in someone better it obviously makes sense.
We need a Samara illustration for the bullpen arms shuttle, stat.
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No Run Support
Laird won't be released. He's at least a decent back up catcher.
He may even be brought back as a backup if he doesn’t find a starting gig as a free agent. I’d offer arby if he is a Type B. But he’ll need playing time to move up in the Elias rankings. Something he’s not getting right now.
Eh
I agree with most of predictions but I’m not sold on Sizemore coming back strong. Inge will probably get a 1-2 year deal for less money than his last contract and the big money will be spent in the offseason on a shortstop and a starting pitcher.
I also wouldn’t be shocked to see Laird back for one more year- but as Avila’s back-up. We have no depth in minor league catching. But I suppose we could also sign another journeyman type back-up guy as a free agent instead of Laird.
And I’d like to be optimistic that we win the division but I don’t see it happening. The Twins and Sux both have softer schedules than we do the second half. If we have any chance of winning the division it will come down to how well we play within the division. We’ve consitently struggled to beat the two primary competitors and Kansas City may well derail us again. I’m just going to expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised if we make it to the post season.
2011 on the otherhand… if we stay healthy then the Twins and Sox would have to pull some major deals in the offseason to dethrone us as the clear favorites once Dombrowski spends the huge amount of bad contract money that’s freeing up on good free agents.
This criticism isn't directed at you, personally but rather at the concept.
It’s automatically assumed that an Inge or Bonderman will be brought back on a 1-2 year deal at less $. That is FAR from a given. There are going to be other teams that want those 2 guys. Particularly Bonderman (due to his age and position). Depending on his second half, I could see someone going 3/30 on Bondo. That team will hopefully not be the Tigers.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 14, 2010 5:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Gullickson?
If you’d asked me who the last Tigers pitcher to get to that plateau was, his is not a name I would have come up with.
Now, if you asked me the last Tigers pitcher to lose 20 games, that one I’m all over!
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As far as the deadline acquisitions we'll make
I agree with you. I don’t think we’ll saddle up and dish out for a guy like Dan Haren, but I think we’ll get a bullpen arm (which I don’t think we need). Hopefully it’s a power guy like Brandon League. I wouldn’t mind getting Drew either, as I kind of like what Danny Worth does over there, but he’s probably not the every-day answer.
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not so bold predictions
Next tigers mini-slump will be blamed on Lloyd McClendon
Chicago will begin to play reflective of a team that insists on having Juan Pierre leading off
CB Bucknor will do something incredibly stupid
Phil Coke will grow a silly moustache
Blatant Twitter Promotion
by rock n rye on Jul 14, 2010 1:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
No way
Phil Coke’s facial hair is never silly.
Many of those things were predictable.
In fact, counting on Everett, Inge, Laird/ Avila, Sizemore, Willis, Zumaya and/ or Perry is a fool’s errand anyway. Those guys have either given the same as they have in the past, or have never had a full solid season in the majors. You have to distinguish between hopes and expectations. Same for Guillen hitting the DL. If anything, there was more reason to hope that Avila and Sizemore would be bona fide major league contributors, than there was reason to believe that the veterans in that group would suddenly become bona fide.
Many things went right for the Tigers as well. AJax performed better than anyone had a right to expect, both offensively and defensively. There is still a legit question whether he belongs in a lead off role in the majors. Boesch was a total shocker, coming out of nowhere to be one of the best players in the league. That fact alone wipes out a lot of the negatives on the list. The bullpen had a great run until both Perry and Zumaya came up lame. Now, they have a major hole to fill, but lots of young guns at the ready. Magglio is almost like the Maggs of old. He just hits, and hits, and hits, even if the power isn’t 100% what it was.
Looking forward, the Tigers could muddle through with their current lineup, but why subject yourself to Inge, Laird/ Avila, and the SS platoon if you don’t have to? There’s no reason to wait til winter on the SS. With the thin crop of free agents about to hit the market, a trade is much more likely going to be the method of addressing the issue anyway. No reason not to get on it now.
The bullpen does need late inning help, and I’d look to the Jays for some of that. Downs, Gregg, or Frasor all fit nicely. But there is also a chance that one of Weinhardt, Wise, Simons, or Sborz can fill a role for us. Coke is now a set up man, as he should have been all season after leading the Yankers in appearances and posting a 1.06 WHIP last year. The need in the pen is not nearly as pressing as the need in the rotation.
Yes, the Tigers definitely need rotation help immediately. We have two reliable starters, and then it’s praying time. Oliver is a minor leaguer who needs to figure out a breaking ball. Galarraga and Bonderman are inconsistent, and Porcello is even less so. Think of trading the prospects that the tigers have as more of an enema, or a colonoscopy than a gutting of the farm system. They’re not that good. The purpose of the guys on the farm is to fill needs of the major league club when they arise. Well, there are needs, and nobody to fill them. No SS, no 3B, no SP, nobody that can hit 2nd in the order. They’ll need to be filled by next spring anyway, but the SP is an immediate need without which the season will be wasted. Short of trading Turner or Porcello, I’d deal any prospect to get back an above average player at a position of need.
If the Tigers prospects are comparable to colon polyps
Do we really want the players they’ll get us in return?
Milton Bradley?
from polyps to a full blown clubhouse cancer?
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There is strength in numbers. Sellers want prospects. B prospects get you B players.
From the many will come a few good men, but I would not cling onto a prospect because he might one day grow up to be the player that you can trade for right now. If the D Backs put Haren on the table, I’d move our best pitching prospects for him. As much as I’d hate to deal a Turner, we’d have a stud ACE pitcher to go with JV, and if he walks in a couple years, we get a couple more high picks for him.
by Tigerdog1 on Jul 14, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd trade just about everyone for Dan Haren
But not Rick Porcello.
Why not?
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 15, 2010 3:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not averse to trading Rick
In the right deal.
I can see where Nick is coming from though. You don’t want to sell on someone as talented as Porcello when his value is much lower than it should be. You all but assure that he’ll be the centerpiece, and it’d also require many more prospects than it should because of his lowered value.
I personally would still do that deal, even knowing all that (but that’s just cause I’m insane for Dan Haren). But I can definitely see why others wouldn’t want to.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 15, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
If you get Dan Haren for Porcello, it's pretty tough to say that his value is low.
Rick wants to grow up to be Dan Haren. Best case is he is as good starting next year for another four years. Why not just take the real Dan Haren through 2013, with the right to opt out after 2012?
I would like the Tigers to do that very thing.
I don’t think they will, though.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Predictions are fun
Watch me be wrong!
Boesch hits a major slump in early August- a streak that sees his average and on-base ability crumple. He’s replaced by a struggling Ryan Raburn in the outfield (to which Kurt, Al, Alli and myself to some extent complain) who then promptly goes on a tear.
Carlos Guillen moves back to DH due to an injury to Johnny Damon (hamstring) and Scott Sizemore comes up to play second. It’s touch and go (Sizemore goes on the DL in early September for hip problems but comes back for the last few games and the stretch run) but he secures himself the starting position in 2011. Guillen shocks everyone and stays (mostly) healthy at the DH position, though he whines about losing his IF glove.
Alex Avila drops the strikeout rate, as does Austin Jackson. In Avila’s case, it allows him to hit around .260 with power and on-base ability and his “savior” title becomes less ironic. In Jackson’s, the drop is slight and his average drops. But he also sees some of his doubles and triples power return, and as Leyland gets more comfortable, he gets the green light to steal bases more.
Inge hits .260/.340/.440 from here on out and re-signs with the Tigers for 2 years, crediting Lloyd McClendon for fixing his swing. Heads explode on BYB. Bondo pitches around a 4 ERA for the rest of the year and re-signs for 1 year, 6mm with an option year.
Kid Rick comes back for the doubleheader start in Cleveland but both he and Andy Oliver are shipped to Toledo at the deadline as DD brings in a pitcher from the National League in a trade (possibly even Edwin Jackson from the rebuilding D-Backs). The price will be reasonable because DD is a wizard, but I will whine about giving up a good prospect (probably Brayan Villareal). Both young pitchers are sent to the minors and told to work on their breaking pitches.
Robbie Weinhardt proves he belongs in the Show and picks up a couple of saves when Jose Valverde tweaks an arm muscle. Valverde is fine, but Leyland gets conformable using Weinhardt and puts Ryan Perry back in a mop-up role. Another minor league reliever (Casey Fien/Zach Simons/someone else) who nobody sees coming (including me) will have an impact down the stretch.
Ramon Santiago quietly hits .270/.350/.380. People call for Danny Worth to replace Santiago.
Both Nick Castellanos and Chance Ruffin sign. Castellanos goes to winter ball and absolutely rakes with wooden bats. Ruffin makes the big-league team next year at the deadline. End of season prospect analysis points at breakout campaigns by Giovany Soto and Daniel Fields as glimmers of hope, but Casey Crosby has a lost season and Jacob Turner starts next year in A+, and his agent complains about Detroit’s development schedule. Castellanos, Turner and Fields make top 100 lists while Crosby and Ruffin just miss. Soto gets a sleeper tag.
The Tigers win the division on the second-to-last day of the season. The Twins and Sox tie for second, one game behind Detroit. Detroit forces the Yankees to a game 5, but get kicked out in the ALDS.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
as long as you're right about the first sentence of the last paragraph
I’m ok with everything else being a pack of lies.
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To be honest
That’s the only thing I really doubt.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 14, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt this part the most
Guillen shocks everyone and stays (mostly) healthy at the DH position
by handsomerob1 on Jul 14, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Even more than the Boesch jab?
:D
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 14, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm fine with the Boesch jab.
He’s going to slump plenty. At this point, though, I don’t see him being replaced in 2010. He’s earned himself quite a long leash. I could see him playing poorly enough down the stretch that he has to earn a roster spot in Spring Training, though.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 14, 2010 5:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think most of us have accepted that he will slump
to what degree is the large portion of the debate. However, your prediction that Guillen will stay healthy has me wondering (a) what you’re smoking, and (b) if I can have some.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 14, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Forgot to put the smoking part
in the sarcasm box
by handsomerob1 on Jul 14, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I get it, it's all good
But I really don’t see Guillen getting injured at DH.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 14, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd argue we're already seeing the beginnings of a slump
He’s been hitting a lot of ground balls and pop-ups lately. Not driving the ball with the same authority. His BA is still thriving due to some balls finding holes, but that will ultimately even out. Look at me talking about BABiP without saying BABiP.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 14, 2010 5:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You were on a roll there, DT
but you forgot to mention that the Tigs picked up Dan Haren and Stephen Drew from the D Backs for Oliver, Schlereth, and Strieby. Haren beats Pettite in the LDS, Hanky Steinbrenner throws a temper tantrum and fires Cashman and Girardi, then HE dies of a massive heart attack.
i just don't understand predicting injuries
based on no evidence at all. That’s not a prediction, it’s a guess. And I, frankly, don’t see the fun in it.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 14, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
In Guillen's case
there’s plenty of evidence.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
and Damon?
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 15, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
My Predictions from before the season started (From Here I Think)
I may have missed on a few, we will have to see how the rest of the season plays out.
My Predictions for 2010
TIGERS PREDICTIONS:
BEST SURPRISE: Johnny Damon (Hits 53 Doubles & BA. of .335
WORST LETDOWN: Jim Leland (Fired shortly after All-Star Game…Tom Brokens takes over & Tigers catch fire & take it all)
BEST ROOKIE: Jackson
BEST PITCHER: Verlander
BEST POSITION PLAYER: Miguel Cabrera (Wins Triple Crown…55 HR., 142 RBI’s, .356 BA.)
RECORD: 92&70
HOW LONG THEY WILL PLAY: World Series Champs (Sorry I’m always optimistic)
AL CENTRAL WINNER: Tigers
AL EAST WINNER: Rays
AL WEST WINNER: Mariners
AL WILD CARD: Twinns
AL CY YOUNG: Verlander
AL MVP: Miguel Cabrera
AL ROOKIE OF THE YEAR: Jackson (Don’t know any others)
NL CENTRAL WINNER: Milwaukee Brewers
NL EAST WINNER: Philadelphia Phillies
NL WEST WINNER: San Francisco Giants
NL WILD CARD: San Diego Padres
NL CY YOUNG: Tim Lincecum
NL MVP: Prince Fielder (Leads league with 52 HR, & 148 RBI’s, but falls short with a .304 AVG. No Triple Crown but close)
NL ROOKIE OF THE YEAR: Don’t Know any!!!
AL CHAMPION: Detroit Tigers
NL CHAMPION: Milwaukee Brewers
WORLD SERIES CHAMPION: Detroit Tigers (Sweep
by TigersFan1957 on Jul 14, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Fun post...
…but if Bondo finishes 2010 with a 4.15 ERA over 180ish innings as a 28 year old free agent, he won’t be even considering a 1yr, 6MM deal. He’ll get 3 or 4 years at about 7-8M average.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. I think I'll stop picking Tigers.
Injury
We forget that he missed literally 2 years of baseball due to it. He’ll sign with us at a discounted rate to rebuild value.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 15, 2010 3:52 AM EDT up reply actions
He won't finish with a 4.15 ERA
He’d have to go another 100 innings with an ERA of 3.50 to finish at 4.15. Cut him down to 180 innings, and he has to be even better. More likely that he goes 200 innings at around 4.50. Even if he has a solid second half, I have no problem giving him a contract, but going into next season depending on him yet again? I’m ready to move on. I’m Bondoweary!
I wonder how cheap Erik Bedard would be.
I see no harm in rolling the dice if it doesn’t cost much. We need another effective starter if we’re going to win this division.
I'm sure he'd be pretty cheap
And very quality. You just can’t ever depend on Bedard because of the injury history. I’d like to see him come over in a trade, but I’m not really sure what I’d be willing to give up with all the questions marks around him (all the time).
You can’t question the guy’s pitching ability though.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 14, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Ooh
I like it.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 14, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You also can't question the fact that he is, from all accounts, a giant asshole
Do. Not. Want.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 14, 2010 5:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wasn't everyone calling Valverde an asshole when we signed him?
He’s turned out ok.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 14, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I never heard that about Valverde.
His on-field antics have rubbed some people the wrong way, but his teammates (with the apparent exception of Montero) have always liked him. Bedard is apparently a gaping asshole.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 14, 2010 5:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Lots of excellent athletes are assholes
If the guy helps the team win once every 5 days, I’m sure the majority of the roster won’t mind too much.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 14, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
This is very true
I just don’t prefer to have to root for jerks. Let the other teams have ’em.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 14, 2010 5:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bonds is a jerk who was one of the top 3 players to ever play the game.
Bedard is a jerk who hasn’t thrown a pitch in a big league game since the Bush Adminiatration. There’s a difference. He makes Carlos Guillen look like Cal Ripken Jr.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 14, 2010 6:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bonds was a phenomenal talent
with or without the steroids. The ’roids may be why he holds the HR records (both single season and career) but he would have been a Hall of Famer without juicing.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Because he did something that wasn't against the rules (at the time?)
Don’t punish him for baseball turning a blind eye to the whole steroid issue in order to save face from the 1994 strike.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
There are definitely some players whose stats were inflated by steroids
and I think the HOF needs to take a very close look at the players they’re considering from that era. However, they can’t just not admit someone to the HOF because he used steroids at the time. Everyone was juicing.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i think that many thought Miggy
was approaching asshole-status last September
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 14, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I defended him vociferously
26 year olds do stupid shit. He was just guilty of bad timing.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 14, 2010 9:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
fair enough
wasn’t planning on going any further
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 14, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was going to leave it at that
by ChrisDTX on Jul 15, 2010 12:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Crazy Idea:
Sign Jarrod Washburn to a series of performance-based one-game contracts.
I know, I know … Where do I turn in my BYB membership card?
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 14, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd be in favor of an inning-by-inning deal
by ChrisDTX on Jul 14, 2010 9:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Is it possible to have him sign by the out?
Or would that be too many mound visits?
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
anyone for pitch by pitch?
and maybe we could get Belle Tire to pay for the whole thing?
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 15, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
in a bad mood
in a bad mood so my predictions are going to be biased
1) white sox were my pick to win the division this year. i’m sticking with it. I think they’ll win 90. What do they have, 3 games against division contenders outside of our division? plus, they own us worse than MIN, i think. we make freddy garcia look like cy young.
2) tigers have overachieved all year. was it against lackluster groups? not really, i guess, as they had some good series against NYY, LAA, BOS, some others. But I think they drop games they shouldn’t, like to KC. Happens, but let’s see if the tigers can keep it up.
at least they are in it now. that makes he happy. they might beat the preseason prediction for wins of “70s” which makes me happy too.
Tigers will be in good shape to add some pieces (i think Damon is helping us out in this regard) for 2011 and then i think we’ll have a better “championship” contender instead of “division” contender
i need baseball back to get back in a good mood.
My major concern about Stephen Drew is this...
I have heard nothing about his makeup. Does anyone know if he is a douche like his brother?
"All aboard!"
Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
If he was like his brother
Maybe he’d be able to get over the 2 WAR hump more than once. JD Drew is awesome (at the very least a lot better than Stephen), and he’s got to be one of the most polarizing people in baseball.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 14, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Though, in fairness
He’s been a 2 WAR player each of the last 3 years according to Fangraphs.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 14, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
-1
This assessment of our starting pitching is bullshit.
Just look at the numbers at how they are doing at home vs on the road. Each guy has had some horrible road starts that makes their overall stats look bad. We probably have the leagues best starting pitching at home games. Bonderman and Scherzer have been very good at Home. Porcello was half way decent at home. Galarraga and Verlander have been terrific at home.
Nobody has been good on the road. Verlander has been our best, but even he has an ERA over 5 on the road.
When we win the division, don’t forget to thank Galarraga for that 28 out perfecto he threw. That was on June 2 and was the turning point of the season. He raised the bar and set a new level of professionalism for the entire team. We’ve been 22-13 since, which is a .628 winning pct.
Or it could have something to do with playing garbage teams
The Tigers played the following teams during that stretch: The Royals (lost the series), White Sox (lost the series), Pittsburgh (one of the worst teams in baseball), Washington (no better than the Royals, and no Strasburg), Arizona (hey, horrible, a trend), Mets (lost the series), Atlanta (lost the series), Minnesota (lost the series), Seattle (horrible), Baltimore (god awful), and they finished it up by actually winning a series against a winning ballclub!!! That ballclub would be Minnesota.
That streak had nothing to do with Armando Galarraga, and everything to do with the cupcake portion of the schedule.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 14, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, a large portion of that stretch was at home
20 of those 35 games were at home. The Tigers were 17-3 in that stretch against the likes of Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Washington, Arizona, Seattle, Baltimore, and Minnesota. Other than Minnesota, the other 6 teams were all in last place in their divisions at the time they were at the CoPa.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 14, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
good posts
if the white sox beat teams that they are supposed to beat, they will be hard to catch.
tigers beat only “some” of the teams there were supposed to beat. hopefully the white sox perform similarly or worse than we did, and we perform a little better than they did against the better teams.
Check it out. The White Sox have 9 remaining games against this group: NYY, TB, BOS, TOR, TEX and LAA. The tigers play them 30 times!
The White Sox have a steady diet of OAK, SEA, BAL (24 games)
Yikes
by redwingxviii on Jul 14, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
each win counts as one
if 90 is the magic number for the tigers, i think they’d have to go 42-34 the rest of the way, with a good number of those games coming against good opposition. Certainly doable.
it’s a .553 win pct, which is roughly what they did this first half (.558)
the difference is that it will be against tougher competition (didn’t do that math but it certainly looks scarier, with 30 games against “division contenders, if you count TOR”)
of course… our rookies are more experienced. so who knows?
by redwingxviii on Jul 14, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
You seem more optimistic now
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 14, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
They're 12-6 against those "division contenders" so far
though 10 of those 18 games have been at home. What Tigerdog is trying to say is that games within your division basically count as double. A win against the Twins is not only a win for us, but a loss for them. Taking care of business against the division is how the Atlanta Braves won a kajillion straight NL East crowns in the ’90s.
If you beat your division, you don’t have to be as great against the rest of the league. The Tigers are 15-16 against the division this year, and 22-14 against the rest of the AL (with an 11-7 IL record). I’m more worried about the number of games the Tigers have left against the rest of the division than I am about the other games in the AL.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 14, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
it's really just the games against Minnesota and Chicago
that count double at this point, but the we must win over KC and Cleveland as well. So basically ignore this comment cause we just gotta win.
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 14, 2010 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes tokarz, a little better. can we please get the games started.
also, wins count as 1. you guys can think otherwise if you want. if we go 10-5 against the white sox, but 15-15 against the tough guys and they go 21-9 against the good guys, we’re out.
the white sox and/or the twins are likely heading to somewhere in the 80s or 90s of wins. we need to get there too.
by redwingxviii on Jul 14, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If we go 10- 5 against the White Sox, that's five more games they have to win, AND five more the Tigers have to lose just to make up that ground.
If the reverse happens, that’s a ten game switch for each team, 20 games total. They count twice as much.
Exactly my point
If we go 10-5 against the White Sox, that forces them to go 21-9 against the good guys to beat us. If they do that, more power to them.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
i think 39-37 may do it
if we can get a good chunk of those wins against Chicago and Minnesota
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 14, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
i'll throw in a bet on 91
the last person in this thread should pick $1, price is right style
by redwingxviii on Jul 14, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
$1
(Good idea).
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 15, 2010 3:52 AM EDT up reply actions
$2
I saw someone bet $2 after the guy in front of him bet $1 (dunno why you would do that when you’re not last). Dick move, but he won.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Please
when’s the last time gas was that cheap?
by handsomerob1 on Jul 16, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't see Chicago remaining this hot.
Not just because of Peavy, but their entire rotation has been on fire, and their lineup just isn’t that good.
He hit his head
And remembered he was Armando Galarraga.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 14, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The pitchers aren't the only homebodies on this roster
The run support they have gotten is just as much a reason for why the Tigers are better at home. The team hits a collective .286/.355/.445 at home compared to a .264/.332/.402 line on the road. They have scored 61 more runs at home in just 4 more games (231 to 170). Since Galarraga’s perfect game, the offense has scored less than 3 runs at home only once (in 20 games), compared to 5 times in 15 games on the road. That one time? Cliff Lee was the starter.
I agree that pitching has a role in why this team is so good at home vs. so bad on the road, but it’s not the only reason they’re so Jekyll and Hyde.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 14, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Um,
Don’t forget, pitchers have to throw both home and away. It’s not like “away games” are some crazy outlier that happens once in a blue moon. 50% of your starts are going to be road starts. So if you are voiding 50% of someone’s starts right off the bat, you are missing 50% of the picture.
A lifelong Tigers fan
Thanks BigAl
I appreciated your preseason optimism, and I appreciate your midseason optimism. Go Tigers!
A lifelong Tigers fan
>Leyland cholesterol count lol
my predictions
- chicago will go into a little slump just like Minn. just did – then the dysfunction will feed on itself again.
- sometime during the second half of the season Carlos Guillien will smile – but it won’t be caught on camera
- we never find our reliable fifth starter (or fourth?)
- johnny damon heats up and carries us for a while
- we somehow sweep a series with KC at home
- leyland continues to use a random number generator to fill in his starting lineup
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone!
Remember, this is just one blogger’s opinion, and I tend to be somewhat of an optimist. I’m a Lions blogger, where good things to write about are often few and far between (though not quite so few and far under Mayhew and Schwartz). So I always try to look at the bright side when it comes to the Tigers, hard as it sometimes may be.
This is a good, yet highly flawed, team. A couple of the correct tweaks puts them over the top in the Central.
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
Redundant Big Al is redundant
I tend to be somewhat of an optimist. I’m a Lions blogger
by handsomerob1 on Jul 14, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
in which of the three categories d you think
Cabrera will fall short of the crown?
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
HR
Because according to Bautista’s .237 BA, that’s the only thing he hits.
Back off man, I'm a scientist
Winging It In Motown
and SB Nation Detroit --SB Nation's regional hub for all your Detroit sporting needs
Twitter
But according to everything else about Bautista, he'll cool off
We don’t even know what park he’ll wind up hitting in.
Or if he'll even be in the AL
Miggy is skilled at backing into the HR title (e.g. Quentin, Carlos; wrist)
by ChrisDTX on Jul 14, 2010 10:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i'm going with average
I think he’ll finish in the top 5 but not the top 1
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 14, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Average
Someone else will finish the season on a tear and beat him by like .001 or .002.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Prediction
If the Tigers pick up Dan Haren and Stephen Drew they will win the division and lose to NY in the ALCS If they stand pat at the trade deadline they will finish 3rd 8 games out
let me take a stab at this
would that mean, in your opionion, that Drew and Haren have a combined WAR of 8 – or you should I just shut up now and let the big (stats) boys talk
Rooting for Tiger stripes, not pinstripes
by JerseyTigerFan on Jul 14, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
well since they wouldn't be replacing 0 WAR players
they’d probably have a WAR combination above 8.0 ;)
but in reality that’s not exactly how the stat works.
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 15, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Bonderman catching a lot of flak
I don’t know what everyone has expected out of Bonderman this year but he is pretty much in line with his career numbers, especially those fancy numbers everyone on this site likes to toss around when it suits their argument.
Stat Career 2010
WHIP 1.39 1.32
k/9 7.22 6.27 (he is striking out less people)
k/bb 2.39 2.52 (ahh but he is walking less too!)
FIP 4.18 4.27 (little bit higher but expected after almost 2 years off…)
I really don’t know what everyone expected out of the guy. He isn’t going to be the ace that everyone projected him to be when he come up in 2003, after seven years in the majors why did you expect that to change? He is a more then adequate 3 or 4 starter. He will show flashes where you see the potential, and flashes where you wonder how he ever made it to the bigs, but more often then not he is going to give you 6-7 innings and keep the team in the game.
by wilsonm24 on Jul 15, 2010 1:02 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
This
Absolutely this. Rec’d.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 15, 2010 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd
I think Bondo catches some grief because he’s had an up-and-down year. He was great in May, giving up 6 total runs in 4 starts and 1 relief appearance (27 total innings). He’s also had a few more bad starts than we’d like to see, giving up at least 7 runs 3 times already this year.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
really though
He has only given up more then 4 runs in three games out of 16 starts, for comparison guess how many times Verlander has given up more then 4 runs this year….you guessed it 3. Bonderman 9 quality starts, Verlander 10 (although I hate the stat it does serve a purpose). WHIP is even fairly close (JV 1.19)
Don’t get me wrong I am not comparing the two talent wise, but three bad outings are still three bad outings. He has kept us in games and given the team a chance to win almost every time he has taken the mound, you can’t really ask for to much more from a guy that was slated as the 4/5 starter in the rotation. I think at this point he is a very solid 3/4 rotation guy.
He is going to get 8-9mil on the FA market, and if it is only for a year (maybe with a club option) I think the Tigers should do it. Turner isn’t going to be ready next year, Oliver obviously needs more time. At least with Bondo you know what you are going to get almost every time out.
He's not gonna get that much, and the Tigers shouldn't do it.
You know what you’re getting with Bondo? When has that ever been the case?
He’s erratic, still has no third pitch, and he’s on and off the DL his whole career.
There are so many other directions I’d like to go with the rotation.
The problem is if you remove his great May from the equation
You are looking at Nick Blackburn. I love me some Bondo, but he’s been more bad than good so far. I think he’s perfectly capable of putting up a good second half, though.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 15, 2010 10:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
if you take away his three bad outtings
he starts to look like an ace (3.25ERA in his 14 other appearances)
If we're going to start taking away bad outings
take away his awesome May (4 ER in 27 innings) and he’s sporting a 6.11 ERA (if I did my math right). He had a hot month, but he’s struggled otherwise.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
gonna go out on a limb here and say the point was
you can play with the stats to make bonderman look like whatever you want him to look like.
want him to look good? subtract the bad outing.
want him to look bad? subtract the good outing.
both are incorrect things to do.
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 15, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
that was my point
but thanks for the assist.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 15, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Was mine as well
He has been both really good at times and really bad at others. I disagree with you though that he has struggled. Overall, he has been average. One really good month, three really bad outtings and a bunch of average pitching the rest of the time.
I guess that was mostly my point too
It’s more or less a microcosm of Bonderman’s entire career. It seems like he should be awesome, and sometimes he is. Those other times…ugh. I’m pleased to see an uptick in velocity from him the last couple of times. That’s a good sign (i.e. He doesn’t seem to be wearing down after a long layoff)
by ChrisDTX on Jul 15, 2010 12:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Overall, he's 5- 6 with an ERA of 4.79, and a WHIP of 1.32 this year.
Overall, he’s 64- 73 for his career with an ERA of 4.78 (well look at that!) and a WHIP of 1.39
Overall, his OBA is .268 for his career and .269 this season
Overall, he’s missed half his major league career on the DL
Overall, I think we can do better
Worried about
the White Sox. Even without Peavy, their rotation is good. Buerlie, Danks, Floyd, and Garcia are as good as a front four next to the Yanks and a healthy Red Sox. Their lineup does have some pop. As you can see Quentin is killing the ball now and carrying that team. Hell, some guys like Beckham will eventually start hitting again. Not worried about the Twins. Their rotation is garbage and I think they fade away.
I've thought this every year for the past five years
I’ve been wrong a lot too.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. I think I'll stop picking Tigers.
my perdiction for 2010 -
AL – TB win the EAST CHI win the CENTRAL TX win the WEST WD – BOS or NY NL – ATL win the EAST STL win the CENTRAL SD win the WEST WD – CIN [EAST] or COL or LAD or SF [WEST]
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 16, 2010 9:16 AM EDT reply actions

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