Roundup: John Buck, Dan Haren among Tigers trade targets
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 20, 2010 11:35 AM EDT
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Unlike Ian, I don't particularly chase every time the Tigers are somehow linked to a player. But for those who are interested in keeping up, I provide this short-and-nasty rundown. Feel free to add to it in the comments.
Pitchers:
- RHP Dan Haren, Arizona -- Haren is the jewel on the trade market right now, with a beautiful strikeout-to-walk ratio, a solid resume and successful experience in the American League. However the D-Backs are reportedly looking for two starting pitchers and a reliever, near or at MLB ready. That's a conversation stopper. The Tigers are said to be bird-dogging Haren's starts, which is a great phrase. Owed $25.5m over next two years with option for third at $15.5m. (Source: CBS Sports)
- RHP Ben Sheets, Oakland -- The predictive xFIP stat (which translates like ERA) has him at 4.48. The A's do not seem to want to trade him. I do not want to add an aging pitcher with poor peripherals and results. This is a perfect agreement. He's owed about $5m the rest of this season. (Source: CBS Sports)
- RHP Michael Wuertz, Oakland -- Take my feelings about Sheets and increase them to get my take on giving up anything at all for Wuertz. His 5.12 ERA is slightly above his 4.74 xFIP. I'll keep the rookies in the bullpen, thanks. (source: MLB TR)
- LHP Craig Breslow, Oakland -- The Tigers and A's have been linked quite a bit so far... He strikes out more than a batter an inning, doesn't walk a lot. His ERA is a solid 3.09 though his xFIP of 4.42 puts up warning flags.
- LHP Ted Lilly, Chicago Cubs -- He's basically a left-handed Sheets when it comes to peripherals. He has an x FIP of 4.62. Lilly has slightly better control, Sheets gets more ground balls, they strike out about the same. However he does project as a Type A free agent, though I wouldn't exactly bet on the Tigers offering arbitration. Owed north of $5m this season. (Source: ESPN.com's Jayson Stark, via MLB TR)
Infielders:
- SS Ryan Theriot, Cubs -- This was mentioned briefly in the Lilly piece. He is playing below replacement level. So ... NO.
- SS Stephen Drew, Diamondbacks -- Has at nice bat and above-average UZR at the position. Also has two arbitration years left on his contract. (source: FoxSports)
Outfielders
- None so far, as it is not a need
Catchers
- John Buck, Blue Jays -- The Jays' 2010 all-star catcher has a .278 avg /.309 OBP /.504 SLG through 265 plate appearances. He has thrown out 24% of runners this season and 26% for his career. This would be an offensive upgrade over what the Tigers have a the position, to be sure, though a step down on controlling the run game. (Source: Toronto Sun, via MLB TR)
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"Bird-dogging Haren"
Sounds painful. Especially after we shoot him, stuff him, and hang him on the wall in DD’s office.
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Jul 20, 2010 11:38 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Bird-dogging means watching.
Like through binoculars. Then you have a jerk dog laugh at you when you miss.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Yes, I know what bird-dogging means. It's also common in hunting.
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Jul 20, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That's where the phrase comes from.
I used the opportunity to make a Duck Hunt joke.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Stephen Drew
Not sure if there have been any mentions of the Tigers’ interest in him out there, besides MLB TR, but I’ve see his name discussed more than once.
drew is hitting .269 with 4 hrs...
rather watch santiago and worth play than give up anything for this bum….wait til hanley ramirez is a free agent…then reunite him with cabrera
You'll be waiting a lot longer and this addresses zero current needs.
Plus you’ll be trying to outbid teams with more cash and incentives.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Hanley Ramirez won't be a free agent until 2015
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Jul 20, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
but he's averaged 15 HR per year over the past three years, and he plays stellar Defense at SS
He’s not the top of the order dream SS, but he’s a clear upgrade
Apparently, the D Backs have a high asking price for anyone they may trade now
xFIP doesn't like Breslow due to his 61% FB rate.
For his career, that total is 47%. So, I would expect fewer fly balls going forward, and thus an xFIP correction. Also, being a fly ball pitcher at Comerica Park isn’t the worst thing in the world. He wouldn’t be a bad pickup, IMO. Although I’m more cocerned about what to do with the left (right?) side of the infield now that there’s a broken 3B on the roster.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 20, 2010 11:47 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Where There's Smoke
I have to think that either Haren or Drew will be in Detroit before August, possibly both.
I think the price will come down, but Dombrowski can’t continue on without either a short or a starter. It’s only a matter of time before Carlos Guillen joins the infirmary ward, and then we’ll be forced to play both Worth and Santiago every day.
My stomach is churning just thinking about it.
Ugh
I really don’t want to buy this year.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
Me neither
I didn’t want to be in this position, even though I knew they would be.
I didn’t want to be in this position last year either, but they escaped the trade deadline relatively unscathed.
by metatron5369 on Jul 20, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
But I don’t see Haren as a buy for just this season.
You’ve got him until the 2013 season at a reasonable rate, and that means you don’t have to spend that money (you’d be spending more, in all honesty) on a starter that’s worse in this offseason’s FA market. It fills a need for a few years (in a big way), and allows the Tigers to focus their attention and resources on their other needs.
Any of the other guys? Yeah, I’d absolutely agree with you. I don’t want anything to do with any of them, and they’re exactly the kinds of guys the Tigers shouldn’t be targeting. John Buck in a career year? Ugh.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 20, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed on Haren
And who’s to say DD couldn’t lock him up past 2013? If he’s happy in Detroit (and pitches well) let’s keep him around for a while. If he hates it here, trade him again before his contract is up.
by Rob Rogacki on Jul 20, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
But at what price
Maybe they would want Oliver, but I wouldn’t give up Turner and Crosby has no value right now. They want two close to major league ready starters and reliever. We have relievers, but not the starters. Unless they want Strieby there is no match.
Porcello would be most likely in the deal
Tough to say. Since they want guys who are major league ready or close to it, I don’t know if they’d want Jacob Turner at this juncture.
Detroit absolutely has the pieces if they’re willing to trade Porcello. I’m not certain if I want to give Rick up, but he definitely rebuilt some of his value with that start against the Indians last weekend. Gotta give up value to get it (not everything can be a fleecing), so we’ll see how it goes.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 20, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I might do Porcello/Oliver/Schlereth
But my thing is that the farm system is supposed to provide support for the major league team… and I don’t see a trade as the healthiest way to provide that support. Sure, it provides a major fix, but that’s one major fix instead of 3 decent sized fixes. It seems far too risky to me, and I’d say that we should be going for a youth movement.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 20, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Aardsma has been linked to the Tigers as well.
At least speculation from MLBTR.
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by DetroitTigersGeek on Jul 20, 2010 12:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
He shouldn't be an option.
Nor should Brandon League. Unless you like having guys who throw only fastballs.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
I'm not partcularly worried about the catcher position...
seeing as it’s not generally viewed as an “offensive” position. If we upgrade any one of our other under performing positions on the field the lack of offense at a primary defensive spot becomes less noticeable.
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I agree
Catcher is the last position of all the holes that I would fix at this point. As much as I don’t like the idea of Perralta or Tejada, the idea of someone coming into play third then move to Short when Inge gets back would be nice, but at this point it feels like we need at least two moves.
Darn
Replied to the wrong comment. Still, a .278 over a guy hitting .183 is a huge upgrade. I’m tired of the last three batters in the lineup giving the defense a free inning.
by metatron5369 on Jul 20, 2010 1:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm OK with a defensive catcher
as long as he can hit his weight
Laird – 225lbs > .185
In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 20, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
It’s probably easier for him to lose 40 pounds than gain 40 points for his average.
by Elfuego51 on Jul 20, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
nice
In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 20, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
All I know is that Sizemore can't get back to Detroit soon enough
I’ve already had to have 3 blood transfusions from watching Guillen at 2B. Blood pouring from the eyes and all.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 20, 2010 1:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don't know what the asking price is for Drew
but he’s very intriguing. A megadeal with Drew/Haren, however improbable, would be awesome. An upgrade for 2010-12. Ah, pipe dreams…
by ChrisDTX on Jul 20, 2010 1:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I wouldn't mind Drew as long as the price isn't too high and no one I like gets traded
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Jul 20, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Just two problems
A.) The price will be high
B.) Someone(s) promising will be traded; hence, someone you like
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. I think I'll stop picking Tigers.
Depends
I find Andy Oliver to be promising, but I don’t have an opinion one way or the other in terms of whether I like him. I’d be willing to part with him for the right player. FWIW, someone mentioned that trading Porcello (who I do like) for Drew would be overpaying, so that’s what I’m using as my measuring stick.
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Jul 20, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
But not for Haren.
Haren for Porcello is about right (with a reliever arm or two). So Drew included would probably mean a back end starter and a prospect.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
What about Drew by himself?
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Jul 20, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The Diamondbacks need pitching so that's probably what they're focused on, primarily.
So someone like Caruss mentions below would be thrown in.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
my guess
It would take Oliver and maybe one of the following Raburn, Casper Wells or Wilkin Ramirez
Sounds reasonable. I could make that deal.
Doña of the VZ Mafia
by SabreRoseTiger on Jul 20, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that would do it
Oliver can’t throw a curve ball
Ramirez can’t hit a curve ball
Wells projects as a fourth outfielder currently hitting .208 in the minors
Replacing Inge
I like the idea of having something to do with the guy when Inge comes back. Cantu is 1B / 3B. Let’s say Inge is better by August 30; what do you do with Cantu?
Tejada is better in my book because he can play SS in September with Inge back at 3B. However, his OPS doesn’t really knock the socks off our current shortstop tandem.
My favorite option is actually the Sizemore move. Give the kid another chance…he’s been good at Toledo.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. I think I'll stop picking Tigers.
Miguel Tejada is a statue at SS
That is absolutely not even an option.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 20, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Tejada's defense is non-existent.
Continual defensive downgrades are not an option I want to see.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
DH him
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 20, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade him?
I dunno…
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 20, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Cantu I mean
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 20, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, that's the consensus.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. I think I'll stop picking Tigers.
What the Tigers Need and Do not Need!
The Tigers need a QUALITY Starting Pitcher with an arm that throw junk, no more fastball pitchers please our rotation needs a pitcher with a slider or curve in his repitiore to throw off opposition for our heat. From the list above the only quality starter is Haren(but also a fastball pitcher), but the price tag is too rich unless it includes some of the so called talent (err deadwood) Oliver, Inge, Laird, Raburn, Ramirez, etc…….Brett Myers is the pitcher that I would target. Third base is an issue that has needed to be addressed since last season! The answer is looking in the division at Peralta of Cleveland. It would give the Indiands an excuse to showcase a rookie in the minors and give the Tigers a proven bat stuck in a horrible line-up and slumping because of being in that line-up. As for a pitcher
Peralta isn't very good
And is way overpaid. He’s hitting worse than Inge, and also plays bad defense. We have someone like that, and his name is Carlos Guillen. No need to trade for that.
I don’t mind the Myers suggestion, if he comes very cheaply. He’s basically a Jeremy Bonderman clone, for better or worse.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 20, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
He's Jeremy Bonderman
If Bondo beat his wife in public.
I’m sorry, but there’s some things I just can’t abide by. That’s one. He can throw 250 innings of 3 ERA ball, I want him nowhere near my team.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 20, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Sizemore moving to third tonight
Per Morosi… I don’t like this very much.
Also Charlie Furbush to AAA… rushing him a bit.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
Yeah
Carlos Guillen needs to be moved off 2B with the quickness.
Don’t mind the Furbush promotion. He’s old. Need to get him to an age-appropriate level.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 20, 2010 4:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
Guilled lost the game in the 7th yesterday when he didn’t get to two separate routine groundballs, the problem is Leyland is too loyal to Guillen and won’t want to hurt his feelings …… again for the fifth different position only to move back to one where we already saw he can’t play. Unless Guillen can start hitting the cover off the ball, he’s not the right solution any place other than DH and Damon is still a better option there.
It's not Leyland being too loyal
It’s putting Carlos in a position that he can field at a Major League level while still keeping his bat in the lineup.
That position is now 3B.
You can sort of hide hit butchery over there. Unfortunately, based on his quotes today, Leyland is sticking with him at 2B.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 20, 2010 5:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
TigsTown reports
Scott Sizemore to start at third for @MudHens tonight, will likely be a quick eval (tonight) to see if he can handle the hot corner or not
That’s per Paul Wezner.
Sometimes this team frustrates me with their… let’s say unusual… decisions regarding player development.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 20, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I like that they are willing to entertain some ideas.
Especially if it gets Scotty back up to the big club.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
But when the best defensive alighnment
is Sizemore at 2B and Guillen at 3B…
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 20, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Guillen is out of position anywhere on the field.
He’s a liability.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
I agree that Sizemore needs to be called up
but I’d be hesitant about shifting positions. No need to make the adjustment even more complex than it already would be. Look at how Gordon Beckham struggled at the plate when the moved him from 3B to 2B…I’d rather keep things as simple as can be when bringing Sizemore up. If that means moving Carlos to 3B so be it. He’ll be a butcher wherever he is, so you might as well make the transition easier for Sizemore. That’s my 2 cents…
Jose Lopez
is another guy who could be useful at third. When Inge comes back i have no idea where he’d play, though. Could be an insurance policy at 2B provided Guillen snaps a stilt.
I think a move for a third basemen is very doubtful, but thought I’d throw his name out there
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Lopez
Not interested, he’s getting old and slow too and still has another year on his contract after this year.
Fangraphs
Fangraphs shows Peralta, Tejada, and Cantu among the worst defensive 3B
Also among the worst 3B overall. Lopez is even worse overall.
Inge is a little, not much above average this year defensively
I think the replacement for Inge is done internally
No, no, not at all, no.
I watch a number of M’s games and no one on there that has been mentioned (Aardsma, League or Lopez) is worth bothering to acquire.
Lopez is no solution, just a side step.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
With Inge's injury
Is 3B a more pressing need then SS or SP? I mean we can’t start Don Kelly there and expect to compete legitimately. I like Uggla. DINGERZ in Comerica Park!
I’d love to see Haren in Tigers uni but if Porcello is back, then it would just be a bit too much especially when there are holes in other areas of the lineup.
Let's be honest
This team has a lot of problems, and Inge getting hurt is another huge blow. There is absolutely no point in trading for the mediocre pieces for marginal at best upgrades at 5th starter/relief/SS/3B/C. Does anyone realistically think that trading for any combination of Ted Lilly, Ben Sheets, John Buck, Ryan Theriot, Miguel Tejada, etc. would make us a playoff team? I certainly don’t. If we’re going to make moves, they need to be impact moves. The kind of trade that frightens the rest of the division for this year and the future. Jake Peavy last year comes to mind. Small trades do nothing at this point. They deplete our farm system further, and don’t make this team good enough to make a run this year. If we’re going to make a move, it had better be a Dan Haren type move. Something that makes us immediately a lot better, and puts pieces in place for next year.
by Ohio Tiger on Jul 20, 2010 5:14 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
you're stealing my future post
and much more succinctly
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 20, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank You
Seriously, everyone listen to this man.
If you’re going to trade your prospects, make it count so you’re not just wasting them on garbage like Jarrod Washburn (I don’t care what anyone says, it was a bad deal regardless). Just think of Miguel Cabrera if you have to, people.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 20, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
This
I’d even go so far to say don’t trade guys, but that’s enlightened self interest. It’s tough to do profiles when the farm system has Jacob Turner and junk.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 20, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a small price to pay
For a top 3 of Haren/Verlander/Scherzer.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 20, 2010 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
But do you know how hard it is to be optimistic about what we have in the minors? It takes a lot out of a guy…
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore.
by David Tokarz on Jul 21, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Could be worse
You could be an Astros fan.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 21, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
I think this sums things up best. Shop Damon since he isn’t coming back and shop anyone else they aren’t serious about bringing back (Bonderman maybe? Laird probably).
You've just been burdened!
The acquisitions should not be rentals. They should be players that can help this year and next.
Fortunately, some of the holes on this year’s team will also be vacant after the season.
Guys like Haren, Oswalt, or Drew help now and later. Trading a good young prospect for a rental to make a run this season makes no sense.
CANNON BALL!
May as well make a big splash and also plan for next year. Haren, Drew and Chris Snyder from AZ for Galaraga, Laird (AZ needs to accept some junk and salary) Worth, Oliver and a couple of relief prospects.
Buck to Detroit?
Doesn’t need to be done, but I wouldn’t mind seeing it from the standpoint that I was a big John Buck fan 12 years ago. Buck played for the Houstan Astros’ single A Midwest League team – The Michigan Battle Cats in my hometown in 1998. He was my favorite player back then (I was 8) and it’d be pretty damn amusing if he came back around to Michigan
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Power Hitter for the Future!
Go and get one good power hitter to bat with Miguel C. and for the future. Then we can get a shortstop and 2nd baseball player next year. One like Josh Hamilton or someone who can put up RBI and Home Runs….
Power Hitter!
Yea now that means something for now and the future.
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