The latest from the trade rumor mongerers: Tigers' status remains quo - UPDATED x2
by BigAl on Jul 24, 2010 2:37 PM EDT
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134 comments
UPDATED 3 PM: ESPN's Buster Olney tweets the D-Backs want a hefty price in prospects from the Tigers for Dan Haren:
Heard this: The Diamondbacks are asking the Tigers for pitchers Jacob Turner and Andrew Oliver.
If this is where talks are starting, I doubt Dave Dombrowski is listening...unless it's one of the other, not both.
UPDATED 6 PM: AOL Fanhouse writer Ed Price confirms the Tigers have (here's that term again) "some interest" in the Red Sox's rehabbing Mike Lowell.
Have confirmed CBSSports.com report that #Tigers, with Brandon Inge out, have some interest in Mike Lowell.
For better or worse, the "Lowell is of 'some interest' to the Tigers" rumor is starting to get some legs. Better legs than Lowell has, actually.
Original post: Trade speculation is flying fast and furious, while the non-waiver trade deadline is now only one week away. The rumor mongering is going into hyper-drive.
Let's start this rumor update with a note our fearless leader posted on Twitter this morning:
Every july and offseason I am reminded sports fans overvalue their own franchise's players and undervalue and undervalue all the others
Amen. Fans tend to fall in love with the Tigers' players and prospects, while overlooking their faults.
If Dave Dombrowski went into the trade market thinking as Kurt says, the Tigers wouldn't have Miguel Cabrera today. Then again, the sword can cut both ways, as shown by the Jair Jurrjens - Edgar Renteria deal. Personally, I don't mind the trading of prospects. For example, the odds Jacob Turner ever becomes as good as Dan Haren are pretty damn slim.
Far more prospects turn into busts than stars...or even into productive major league players.
As for any deals in the making, Jim Leyland made it known before Friday's game was called the Tigers' aren't making a trade for the sake of just shaking things up.
"For us to do something and give up a pretty good young player or players, it would be something that we would all have to feel we're getting a difference-maker," Leyland said Friday. "Not just making a deal where you're getting somebody that might be a little tad better than what you got."
So the Tigers want to receive a "difference-maker" in any trade they may make. If true, it may mean the Tigers are at least entertaining the idea of trading a top prospect, such as Jacob Turner.
It comes down one thing. Who do you consider a difference-maker? Dan Haren? Yes. Ted Lilly? I'm not nearly as sure.
Haren is still the topic du jour with the baseball journalists.
The Yankees were believed to be the leader in the Haren sweepstakes last night. Today, maybe not. ESPN's Jason Stark reported a deal involving the Yankees was never close, despite reports to the contrary on Friday.
Why? The Evil Empire won't include Joba Chamberlain in any deal.
The two teams did swap names Friday, the source said. But the Yankees rejected a Diamondbacks proposal that would have sent Joba Chamberlain, highly regarded pitching prospect Ivan Nova and two other prospects to Arizona for Haren.
SI's Jon Heyman echoes Stark, and also mentions the Diamondbacks are trying to attach some of their dead weight to any deal involving Haren.
At times in the talks, the Diamondbacks have tried to attach reliever Chad Qualls (1-4, 12 saves, 7.86 ERA) or catcher Chris Snyder (.233, 10 HRs, 32 RBIs) in the deal with the Yankees.
Snyder might be dead weight for some teams, but considering the Tigers' catching issues, it might make sense. At least Synder is putting up a decent OBP at .345, compared the the .295 of Alex Avila and .250 of Gerald Laird.
Remember, all NL stats should be taken with a grain of salt...it's called the junior varsity for a reason.
It bears repeating Haren has a no-trade clause in his deal, and the Tigers are included. Do the Tigers really want a player who isn't interested in playing in Detroit? //suddenly gets shivers thinking about Juan "No home, apartment" Gonzalez.//
Lilly, who is also on the Tigers' trade radar according to the baseball scribes, may be dealt before the weekend is over.
Lilly's trade value skyrocketed after he held the Houston Astros to one run in 7 1/3 innings Wednesday. His next scheduled start is Tuesday in Houston, and sources say the Cubs would like to complete a deal before that outing.
Of even more interest in the Sun Times piece is this snippet about the Tigers.
. The Detroit Tigers are also believed to be shifting their attention to Lilly after hitting a wall in talks with the Arizona Diamondbacks centering on Haren.
Lilly is a slightly affordable option, and more importantly, is a left-hander...both of which I'm sure the Tigers are taking heavily into consideration.
As for the other pitcher often brought up as being of interest, Ben Sheets, he's off the market. Today the A's placed him on the DL with elbow issues.
At CBS Sports, former Tigers beat guy Danny Knobler brings up the Mike Lowell rumor, claiming the Tigers have "some interest" in the injury rehabbing Red Sock.
Lowell makes $10 million, but the Red Sox would obviously be willing to pick up most of the remaining money if they are able to move him. The Tigers, who called up Scott Sizemore to at least temporarily take Inge's place at third base, would be a good fit if they determine that Lowell is healthy enough to play regularly.
Lowell is old and hurt. But he could come very cheap, which is why I'm sure the Tigers are at least showing "some interest."
Feel free to post any rumors or news you come across in the comments. Yesterday's comment thread was damn informative! If anything interesting does come up from the usual suspects or gets posted in the comments, I'll update this post with the latest.
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I’m praying for Haren. Please please please!
by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on Jul 24, 2010 2:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Latest on Haren
Buster Olney reports that the Dbacks have asked the Tigers for Andy Oliver and Jacob Turner in return for Haren. Not sure if any other players would be involved besides those three.
I read that also. If so do it DD.
by BeardedPlayoffJesus19 on Jul 24, 2010 2:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
One or the other, not both
you empty the system for a Cabrera. While Haren is very very good, he’s not a Lincecum, or Josh Johnson
Blatant Twitter Promotion
He's much better
Than either Turner or Oliver are likely to ever be.
He's much better
Turner or Oliver. NOT BOTH! Go for Ted Lilly as a stop gap to 2011. Don’t auction the farm now! Besides Haren has said he does not want to be here – so the heck with him!
Did he say that recently
Or are you referring to the whole No-trade thing from a few years back?
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Assuming he's better than each individual pitcher
You’d rather have two average pitchers than one good one? How does that make sense?
Yet
Even as is, he’s potentially a shutdown reliever.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 24, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Like you don't want Haren.
I see through your ruse.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
As a Tigers fan yes
But as a minor league writer, if we sell any more of the farm I’m going to run out of stuff to write about.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 24, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The Tigers system doesn't have enough relievers.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
crap, you're right
Maybe they can draft some next year?
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
Gonna have to save that 1st rounder
No need to go out and sign a type A.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybin and Miller haven't been much of anything.
Only Badenhop (a throw in) has stuck. Prospects are prospects – proven talent is worth more.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Just updated the post to reflect this...
Thanks!
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
I'd counter
With Turner, Villarreal and either Schlereth or Perry.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 24, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course you would.
I highly doubt that they would go for only one good starter prospect (Turner). Villarreal is starting now, but he probably doesn’t have rotation future.
You don't just say yes
You try to get a better deal.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 24, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't wait too long though
And let someone else swoop in (like the Tigers did when they got Cabrera)
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because the Tigers are on the "no-trade list" doesn't mean he doesn't want to come here.
C’mon now, he had to list 12 teams. That’s half of baseball. Odds are he’s going to name teams he really doesn’t dislike. At this point, I’m sure he’ll take any chance to get out of that nightmare in Arizona.
He's a West Coast Guy
He probably listed every team east of the Mississippi except the Yankees, Red Sox, and maybe the Mets.
Interest in Haren but not Lilly
Makes no sense to me. Haren’s ERA will be even higher in the AL, and he already wears down in the second half. Lilly should do well at Comerica.
why shouldn't lilly's ERA by even higher in the AL
both are national leaguers. besides you’re not looking at the full picture. haren is another strikeout pitcher with good control, he’s playing in a hitter spark and he’s giving up way more home runs per fly ball than a) normal, and b) he would in a bigger park.
by Kurt Mensching on Jul 24, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Also take a look at Lilly's FIP
I’m in favor of acquiring him on the cheap, but only for the comp picks.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 24, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Because Haren is a better pitcher
And he’s younger and locked up for 3 more years.
Just because Haren’s ERA is high right now doesn’t mean it’s going to get higher.
Cheap Bullpen Help
The Dodgers released Kiko Calero who put up impressive numbers last year. They also DFA’d Justin Miller, who has 11.1 K/9. Both guys could be worth a look.
Also, just because I haven’t seen it anywhere else, Detroit released MIke Rabelo.
http://designaterobertson.blogspot.com
If DD is balking at giving up Turner and Oliver
I’m going to be heavily disappointed in him.
Depending upon the other pieces involved, he wouldn’t be mortgaging the future to try to win this season. It’s like Joe said, Haren is most likely better than Oliver or Turner will ever be.
This would also allow Detroit to keep Fred Porcello (like I know you all want so badly), and have a rotation that rivals Chicago’s very nicely in the Central………and all of baseball I suppose.
Seriously, don’t get hung up on Haren’s ERA this season. The guy is still an excellent pitcher, and he’d be an amazing pickup for our ballclub. Get it done, Dave.
Turner & Oliver
Yes, I understand the farm is weak, but why is this not a no-brainer? They lock up a #1 starter (1b to Verlander) for a reasonable cost who is PROVEN. Even assuming regression, Turner can only pray to become that quality, and Oliver will never approach it. We think we can target this need in FA this winter? No one of comparable quality will sign with the Tigers, plain and simple.
The rotation for the next few years of Verlander, Haren, Scherzer and Porcello…that presumably would be the 2nd best rotation in baseball, regardless of the 5th starter (I assume the Yanks will trot out Lee, Sabathia, and Hughes, and get the luxury of Burnett/Pettitte whomever as their back end).
The ONLY wild card I see in this is injury, such that we won’t have sufficient depth to cope with the inevitable injury. We’d still have some mid level prospects working up, and we can probably get some depth in FA as well. But let’s make a deal based on the known, not the unknown or unpreventable.
Exactly
You can’t worry about future injuries with a guy like Haren when he’s had such a reliable history. If this was Ben Sheets, there’d be reason for concern. But it’s not.
If you’re going to use that logic, you’ve also got to weigh the possibility of Turner or Oliver getting injured as well.
Like you said, there’s no reason not to do the deal because of the unknown or unpreventable.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't agree with you strongly enough.
Haren, at that cost, is a great value. Porcello probably not being in the deal? That seals it for me.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Turner & Oliver
Let’s not be giving up on Oliver so soon The Tigers called him up way to early! He is just a kid yet. He has a bright future ahead of him providing the Tigers coaching staff don’t screw him up. Turner/or Oliver for Haren NOT BOTH. Throw in a Bonine or a Gonzalez with one of them if necessary But not 2 pitching prospects!
consider one problem?
let’s we acquire either dan haren or ted lilly then comes the tiger offense?something to punder – both haren & lilly are excellent pieces but, they tiger must give those two pitchers either haren or lilly a enough run support per 9 inning to win? it’s doubtful
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
There aren't any hitters on the market
That fit the Tigers needs that are equivalent to the value Detroit would get from Haren. If there was a 3B or SS on the market that was that good, you better believe Dombrowski would be all over it.
But the fact is, there isn’t. There’s no reason to waste trade chips on a bunch of small guys that aren’t going to help the team as much as Haren would. (or for as long)
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
What if
DD proposes a deal for Haren, Snyder, and Drew for Turner, Oliver, and whatever extra bullpen guys or extra outfielders or whatever? He seems to like mega deals. Would this be even feasible in some iteration?
You've just been burdened!
It's not out of the question
Supposedly the D-Backs were trying to get the Yanks to take on some guys in addition to Haren with somewhat higher salaries. Guys like Chad Qualls, Chris Snyder, Drew, etc.
I’d be jumping for joy if Qualls came along because of his ultra-unlucky year, but his salary is kinda high (a little over 4 million). The salary might be a big problem, though. Haren is making almost 9 mil this year, Snyder is at 4.8 mil, Qualls is at 4.1 mil, and Drew makes 3.4 mil. If they were to get any combo of those guys, it’d probably be around 18 million. I don’t know if even Mr. Ilitch would sign off on that kind of cash (even with the money coming off of the books).
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Mr. I thinks it will get him that World Series he is chomping at the bit to get?
It becomes feasible.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
What if
Would have to trade Laird to them as well in that scenario and I doubt the D’backs would agree to that!
Laird makes almost as much as Snyder
There’s pretty much no reason for Arizona to entertain that.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
since, on the average per game the tigers only score 5 runs per/gm…does’nt matter who is pitching either haren or lilly even if they go deep per/gm let say, 7 or 8th inning, windup losing because of the tiger offense..something to think about!
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 3:59 PM EDT reply actions
But how long is Haren's contract?
I seem to recall that it goes through 2011 (or even 2012), but I could be mistaken. I’m just wary of trading for a player (and giving up two rather valuable prospects) who might be counting the days until he can get out of Detroit, and waking up the echoes of that disastrous Juan Gonzalez deal that Al referenced.
Might this be like the Peavy between SD and the ChiSox last year where eventually he can be convinced to come on board?
He’s also pitched in the postseason, too, which could be helpful…
At any rate, all things being equal, I’d support the trade.
Through 2012
With a club option for 2013. That’s 3 and a half years, of ace pitching.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Right.
Word is, he would demand the option be exercised prior to going to one of his no-trade teams as well, right? Hopefully, we don’t have to extend him beyond that, because 3 years is solid and gives Haren the opportunity to chase one more big contract and keeps us from getting locked into a bad deal. At the very least, take the rest of the season to see how it works out and the relationship builds before doing so.
Your trade value skyrockets
When you hold a truly horrific offense to 1 run through 7 1/3? Is baseball really that fickle?
Apparently, yes...
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
thats why need bats in that line-up for the tigers to effectively score runs…for starters- run producers not strikeouts or ground balling in a doubleplay ect
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 4:03 PM EDT reply actions
Then tell us who's available
Who can do that, and not actually be a waste of prospects that could be put to better use?
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
good question,
try acquiring fielder,buck,werth,dunn if possible…let me say, it won’t easy but you never so, but thats what the tigers need quality bats — that way i would like see haren or lilly but, without fielder or buck or werth or dunn no chance
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 4:10 PM EDT reply actions
Ok
Fielder: He’s not going to DH, and there’s no need to trade for a 1B when we’ve already got an MVP caliber one
Dunn: Has said he won’t DH, and he plays absolutely godawful defense that gives back a lot of his offensive value.
Werth: Possiblity, but then is Magglio the full time DH? Not to mention it’d only be a rental, and the Phillies are probably asking for the moon to deal him.
Buck: Having a career year, and would be a rental as well. There’s no need to trade prospects for him when Detroit could just sign him in the offseason anyway.
I’m not trying to be a jerk, I just don’t think getting any of those guys would be as good of a move as getting Haren.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Whoever mentioned Fielder coming here has to be on drugs, and I would guess such a trade would cost Boesch and 3 more prospects.
I think Haren + either Drew, if they can keep the stakes down with AZ, or Haren + a reliever (from Oak or Toronto) will be all we need to give this a good run.
If Turner and Oliver is truly what they're asking,
then add me to the list of those wanting to make this trade.
All I am saying try to first acquire fielder or dunn, or werth or buck most valueable players, let’s say, werth & buck surley help the tiger cause, we have scoring power and after that you knows… All I know it the tigers needs some more run production in the line-up…..maggs,damon, guillen won’t work, since they hit in the doubleplays or groundout or strikeout ect, no run production so, the numbers prove that!
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 4:30 PM EDT reply actions
You complain about double-plays.
Yet you want Adam Dunn.
Because I'm the Lynch... and I'm awwwesome!
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 24, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
But but
DINGERS!!
Please don’t take this post as an indication that Adam Dunn doesn’t own, because he definitely does. He’s just not a fit for Detroit (at all) if he refuses to DH.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I never understood the Dunn hate
He may have high K and DP rates, but he gets on base! His career OBP is .382, and his career SLG is . 523. I’ll take that on my team anytime.
But he’s strictly a DH at this point of his career, even if Dunn himself is delusional about his fielding ability. As Ozzy says, if he doesn’t DH, where do you play him?
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
Actually,
He’s been an approximately average 1B this season. It’s an open question whether Cabrera would agree to play elsewhere, but 3B is open for the moment, so…
I don't want to hear any weak sh*t from Jason Grilli.
by cherub_daemon on Jul 24, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
ok stratch dunn then go to the next player buck – he is also an excellent player so he is a run producing machine so eitherway
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 4:47 PM EDT reply actions
He's having a career year, is a free agent at the end of this season and is about to turn 30.
30 is the usual year a catcher begins his down slide. There are exceptions but more often than not the big three-zero is the down phase. No reason to give up players for a catcher in that situation. If Buck is guaranteed not to accept arbitration, then it could be a good thing for compensation picks, maybe.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Buck would be a rental, he will definitely go the FA route
And considering the paucity of MLB catchers of even average ability on the open market, Buck is going to attract a fair amount of interest. I’d bet he’ll end up overpaid considering his talent and age.
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
we need players that know how to play the game of baseball who has ability to score runs thats my point, rather have buck than maggs in the heart, since maggs got hurt a year ago he hasn’t been the same guy he used to be, same is guillen injury probe! beside, getting up in age[maggs/guillen]
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 4:54 PM EDT reply actions
I assure you, MLB players kind of know how to play the game of baseball.
Buck is not a good option. The Tigers are not bad at scoring runs, the Mariners are.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
please...........the tiger are 14 th ratings major leaques as far as scoring runs!
tigers average this 5 runs per/gm so what are you talking about, they strand alot I mean alot of runs on the base paths…you can’t argue that!
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What's so bad about being average on offense
Especially if you’re about to add Dan Haren…
5 runs a game with Verlander-Haren-Scherzer is usually good enough.
So, yeah, don’t see the concern.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Cause they'll just lose every game 1-0
Ordonez, Guillen, Damon, Boesch, and Avila are obviously going to slump for the entire rest of the season. And Scott Sizemore won’t ever figure out major league pitching.
Thank you for showing me the light, Spiderman.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll join you
Brennan. :(
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
I'm not attached to him.
I’m sad about Scotty.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
well
It looks like they will both be losers 4ever, so we are both out of luck.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
Buck is not better than Ordonez
You’re high, man. They’ve got almost the same OPS, Ordonez isn’t having a career year, and Magglio is most likely a better defender.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Something that really intrigued me
was Fielder. Imagine him DH’ing, providing protection (ala Holliday/Pujols) for Cabrera.
Though, I’ve heard Greinke is on the block. To me, he’s far better than Haren, and is worth trying to get. He can probly be had for cheaper than Haren, too.
B.Inge's facial hair advisor
Rod Allen's humor consultant
Greinke isn't signed for as long
And Dayton Moore would probably send the KC fans over the edge if he traded their Ace/Face of the Franchise to a division rival.
I’m not certain if Fielder has an aversion to DHing, but I know for a fact that a lot of guys don’t like it because it kills their free agent value once they’ve got that “DH” stigma. (for whatever reason David Ortiz is exempt from this)
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
If they just want Oliver and Turner, then I'm down for adding Haren
That’s a no-brainer. It’s a pretty one-sided deal in our favor. I’d think they’d want more prospects thrown in, like Weinhardt, Furbush, or Streiby.
It wouldn't just be Oliver and Turner
There’d be other stuff as well. But just knowing that those two would be the centerpieces of the deal is comforting to a lot of us, cause that means that Fred would be sticking around.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Diamondbacks wanted Raburn, I'd drive to the Tiger offices and beg for the deal to happen.
Or if they could throw him in…
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Furbush is a pretty mediocre prospect.
He’s only got 4th starter potential at best.
Strieby has good offensive potential, but he’s not that good, and we don’t really have a position for him.
I wouldn’t like to do it, but giving up Oliver/Turner/Furbush/Strieby is still a pretty good deal. I would just want to keep Weinhardt, since he’s gonna be a key part of the bullpen this year.
Furbush is a pretty mediocre prospect.
4 prospects for Haren? You have bats in the belfry there Nick! Furbush is looking pretty good to me this year at least. Oliver will be good – he was called up too soon is all. Turner the Tigers gave the big signing bonus to for a reason and Strieby will be in Detroit next season and will do well (A right handed Brennan Boesch!) Way to much for one guy You never know when an arm will blow out (ask Bonderman!) so a 4 for 1 gutting of the farm would be plain stupid!
Get Drew
If we are giving up 4 prospects, lets at least get Drew as well. Haren wont guarantee us winning anything, but along with a decent SS would give us a better chance.
So you guys think
They’ll just take Turner or Oliver + garbage for a cost controlled ace pitcher and a major league SS?
That’s not how it works.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Turner OR Oliver
It was Turner AND Oliver + unknown quantities. Or maybe known quantities instead.
Of course other teams who didn’t get Cliff Lee will probably offer more.
There's a difference here
Bonderman was much younger when he started having problems, and Haren is a hell of a lot more proven that Jeremy was.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
A similarity also
Haren has a contract that gets rather expensive in the later years when he may become less effective. We are still paying Bonderman, Willis and DesigNate. I would feel better with Lilly. A lot less commitment involved.
So you weren't ok with giving Verlander an extension?
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Not thrilled
It was a way to avoid becoming Cleveland. I know this is heresy around here, but Verlander is not really consistent enough to be “one of the top 3 pitchers in the AL”. He does waste too many pitches trying to strike everybody out, and often has to leave by the 6th inning, leaving his team’s fate to the likes of Bonine (usually ok) or Thomas (usually not ok). Now I would certainly rather have him here than elsewhere, but he is not Jack Morris or Sabathia. I suppose there is a fear factor here, as I was much happier (and more delusional) when Bonderman got his contract.
Lilly also
Isn’t nearly as good as Haren, so I don’t think it’s comparable.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
More appropriate though
The point here is to compete this year (since we are in the race) without tying our hands like we have been for the last 3 years. Lilly shouldn’t cost as much, and if he leaves this winter, so what? If we don’t have to mortgage the future, he can’t be any worse than Washburn, hopefully better. (blind squirrel theory). It didn’t bother Texas that Cliff Lee may leave them. They have their shot now, and they are going for it.
Furbush knows pitching
He’s probably a fourth starter, maybe a #3.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 24, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
do you think
That Arizona would be looking to dump expensive junk as well – “you want Haren, fine, but we want these prospects PLUS for you to take on this expensive trash that we want to unload”?
I am not familiar enough with them to know what kind of garbage they want to get rid of. It’s one thing to trade prospects for established players, but I really don’t like taking on other team’s expensive mistakes. Most teams have their own garbage to deal with even without taking on the trash of others.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
The Diamond backs don't want to pay any of Haren's salary.
They also wouldn’t mind tacking on another player for salary concerns.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
It's been addressed a little bit earlier
But the stuff that they’ve got really isn’t that glaring. The funny this is, most of it is in positions that the Tigers need. Stephen Drew, Chad Qualls, Chris Snyder, they’re all guys that could help Detroit, and they all make under 5 mil a year.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I’d pay for Chris Snyder and sent Avila down. I doubt Ilitch has the money for all of those guys, but you could take one.
I'd probably look at Drew more because, while the Tigers' catching is not lighting up the batter's box...
…our SS situation is scarier.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
They've both been equally terrible
In their own ways. Improving either would go a long way, and I don’t care which.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
something really intrigues too.........
who ever is in the trading block whether it will be fielder, buck , werth , dunn, no matter , the point is what the tigers need is run production that mean scoring run not 2 ,3 4 5, per/gm in order to win games, I can’t see them doing that, like ny, tb, bos, tx ,chi they have it so, no comparison!. so far this so
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 5:12 PM EDT reply actions
Chicago's lineup isn't as good as Detroit's
They’re on their hot streak right now, while Detroit was on theirs earlier in the year.
Texas plays in a major hitters ballpark, Boston and NYY have more money than god, and Tampa has built their roster up with tons of top 5 picks and good drafting.
The situation is not at all comparable.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
but chicago is winning games that all it counts!
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, and they're ahead by a whole 2.5 games
An insurmountable lead to be sure.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
chicago is winning game thats all it matter!
no matter the line-up or not in baseball all it matter is winning games!
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 5:22 PM EDT reply actions
All that matters is your record at the end of the season
Not the end of July.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
speaking of the end of the season..........
we know in sept the tigers don’t play their best baseball proven fact while chi & minn does..you can’t argue that
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 5:26 PM EDT reply actions
Speaking of Chicago
Actually the Black Sox fell out of the race last year as soon as Justin Morneau was injured. The only way they won any games was by inviting the opposition to party with them…
WOW
has anyone ever read the comments on the Tiger’s articles over on Freep.com???
Geez… I may not agree with everything said here, but those people need help, and a class in baseball 101…
Things like “have the D-backs throw in Montero, and we will throw in Wells.” yeah cause they would do that.. lol
Avoid more well known places.
That’s where the sports talk crowd go and poop in.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
absolutely
I tried once to read the comments on I think it was yahoo.com – good gracious, what an illiterate cesspool of hostility and misogyny it was. Barf.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
Never, ever read the comments in the Freep, or any newspaper website
It’s like wading into the shallow end of the gene pool.
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
Intellectual depth of a parking lot puddle in August.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!
ZOMG U GYZ
WE SHOULD TOTALLY DEAL CASPER WELLS AND JACOB TURNER FOR JUSTIN UPTON AND DAN HAREN AND MIGUEL MONTERO.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 24, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
my team is Detroit but, fact are fact
the tigers must for themselves turn the tides nobody can help that, just turn around!
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 5:32 PM EDT reply actions
as I see it, chicago by far has potentally great hitters that performs on the daily bases that prove it in the standings so far, as for the tigers haven’t performed this season.both has potentally great hitters but, all said n done chicago has an edge compare to detroit
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 5:43 PM EDT reply actions
I think Spiderman
Needs to lay off the haterade. If the tigers can pull this trade off I am all for it~
by Justin Osborn on Jul 24, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The Sox offense is not better than Detroit's
Period.
Detroit ranks 5th in AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS (they’re actually 7th in one of those cats, but still). There are 14 teams in the AL, so that’s not bad, at all. Where does Chicago’s prolific offense rank? Anywhere from 8th to 9th in all of those categories.
They’ve been winning so much because their pitching has been amazing. Just imagine what Detroit could do with a stellar pitching staff and the 5th best lineup in the AL. It’s almost like they’d be a ton better than the White Sox.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 24, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
The Sox are pretty putrid offensively and they know it (if you read their posts, which are a lot more vulgar than anything seen here). Beyond Konerko, they are pretty mediocre. Kind of how we were in the 2nd half last year. Hopefully their pitching will not be able to carry them to game 162/3.
on the freep
people are going nuts when it was said that the D-backs asked for Turner and Oliver…
like everyone on here, i agree… Turner at best becomes Haren…
And in next years draft we can get a new “Turner and Oliver”… Lets freaking win…
their no haterade, but agreed if possible go ahead and make trade.i am game…go tigers
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 5:54 PM EDT reply actions
spiderman has one objective - right in the mouths of babes ‘’ all I know it is baseball – conversely, the spiderman moto is ’’ WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY’’ -— like me, I always take responsibility for my own action, it will be as same as detroit tigers….win or lose!
by '' spiderman '' on Jul 24, 2010 6:06 PM EDT reply actions
Josh Hamilton!
The Tigers could get Josh Hamilton, but they want some of our pitchers and if you can offer them, who knows what they want??
The only way
The only way to get Josh Hamilton would be to give Texas Cabrera, and neither team wants to do that mid-season.
Ummm...The 1st place Rangers have their best hitter on the block?
That seems odd to me. Perhaps St. Louis will scrap their season too…we can get Pujols.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
Hitters is what Tigers need!
Dave get a power Hitter!
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