Twin bill intermission thread: Dombrowski speaks, says "No rentals!"
by BigAl on Jul 25, 2010 4:16 PM EDT
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Print"We've lost our third baseman, our right fielder and our second baseman," Dombrowski said. "Plus, we'd already lost [reliever] Joel Zumaya. So we'll see who steps up for us internally. You're not going to trade for every one of those positions. It's just not going to happen. But we'll see if there's something that makes sense for us."
Dombrowski also added almost every trade discussion starts with teams asking for Jacob Turner and Andrew Oliver. If they are going to be the cost of doing business, Dombrowski is hanging up the phone.
"Other clubs look at us and say, 'Well, they are desperate so maybe they will trade us Oliver and Turner,' " Dombrowski said. "Well we aren't. I'm not meaning to say that anyone is untouchable. I'm not going to give away blue-chip young players for a guy for two months. It just doesn't make sense. Will we be active in talking to people? Yes. If there is a deal that we think can be made that can help us, will we? Yes. Are we going to mortgage our future? No.
As for any possible trade rumors/scenarios, the latest name to pop up is the Nats' Adam Dunn.
Via MLB's All Nats All The Time blog:
With the injury to outfielder Magglio Ordonez, the Tigers have "great interest" in Nationals first baseman Adam Dunn, according to a baseball source.
Where would Dunn play? As if you needed to ask...
If the Tigers were to acquire him, Dunn would be a designated hitter and play in the outfield. They already have a first baseman in Miguel Cabrera.
I'm not sure there's much to this, as Dunn is a free agent to be...a two month rental, which Dombrowski says he doesn't want.
Feel free to discuss!
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Silver lining
I have a feeling Boesch is about to break out of his slump. Had a couple of nice AB’s in the matinee. A 400 foot out and a quality AB for the walk.
More apropos to the post, the onus is on DD to not do anything dumb. Doesn’t sound like he’s panicing, at least. Also of note, Haren is not a rental. This team is going to need to pitch it’s ass off for the next 6 weeks to stay in contention. Hmmm.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 25, 2010 4:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Adam Dunn
Has more versatility, since he can play in the OF, but I wonder about Prince Fielder coming home.
It helps that Milwaukee is looking for pitching, which we have in depth, but it hurts that he’d essentially be our David Ortiz.
Adam Dunn is so bad in the outfield,
I would move Cabrera back to RF before putting Dunn there.
by StringTheory on Jul 25, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Is he worse than Raburn?
Because I'm the Lynch... and I'm awwwesome!
by Terrence J. Lynch on Jul 25, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Quick shorthand
Dunn’s last full OF season (2007): UZR/150 = -18.3
Raburn 2010: UZR/150 = -5.6 (was actually +5.0 in 2009)
by ChrisDTX on Jul 25, 2010 4:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Eh
While true, the fact that he can play a position badly is a plus over someone who can’t play it at all.
by metatron5369 on Jul 25, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade for Dunn and sign him to the 4-year $60 million extension he wants (unless he will for sure be available this offseason)
Then sign Crawford, plug him into the #2 hole for the next five years
TOTO:
Jackson CF
Crawford LF
Cabrera 1B
Dunn DH
Boesch RF
by ryan_matthews28 on Jul 25, 2010 4:57 PM EDT reply actions
And use the $1 remaining to sign a 3B, SS and 5th starter
by ChrisDTX on Jul 25, 2010 5:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
More like $30+ million if payroll remains around $120 million
by ryan_matthews28 on Jul 25, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no reason to believe payroll will remain that high
This team has been hemmorhaging money. At some point Illitch cuts his losses and slashes payroll.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 25, 2010 5:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why? He can't take it with him!
Besides, NOT doing anything to compete would cost more money than paying the price for a competitive product. He should’ve learned that by now.
$ 75 for five years for Crawford- do it.
Word is he's interested in buying the Pistons
Gotta save those pennies.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
The Pissed ons have the lowest payroll of any team in the NBA.
(and weren’t even mentioned as a possible destination for any of the big free agents this summer).
Incorrect
What are you talking about? Salary cap in the NBA for next season is 56.1 million. Pistons have 11 players signed at 57.7 million. Joe D used all of pistons cap space last summer on Ben Gordon (48 million for next 4) and Charlie V (31 million for next 4 years).
by Not a Gunslinger on Jul 26, 2010 6:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Very untrue
The Pistons weren’t mentioned as a possible destination for two reason (1) this is Detroit, not NYC, Chicago or Miami, and (2) they hardly had any cap space to sign a big-name guy, as Gunslinger already pointed out.
The Pistons franchise itself is one of the most valuable in the NBA. Illitch would likely be looking to buy the team to gain a foothold in the Palace braintrust. He wants to build a new arena in downtown Detroit, but the city has stated that it wants both the Pistons and Wings on board for this to happen. The Pistons won’t be leaving Auburn Hills anytime soon unless Illitch steps in (or, God forbid, some other new owner moves them to another city).
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
That "word"......is wrong
He is NOT interested in buying the Pistons
He already has said he doesn’t like the “mentality” of the NBA
Too Ghetto now
He WOULD love to get his hands on the Palace, DTE and Meadowbrook though
by J and S' Team on Jul 26, 2010 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Illitch recently expressed more interest
He has little interest in the team itself. He’s more interested in the Palace, DTE & Meadowbrook side of things, plus the benefits his Red Wings will get out of the deal (i.e. a new stadium in downtown Detroit). He would basically turn over the team to those working for him.
Plus he realizes that the residents of Detroit (and Michigan in general) would regard him as a god amongst men if we were able to keep the Pistons from another potential owner looking to move the team out of Detroit.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Dunn would help this season, and he comes with compensation picks as well
But the asking price for him is apparently pretty high. The Gnats reportedly wanted Gordon Beckham from the Black Sox for him. If they figure that they have a couple of first rounders in the bag already, they may not be motivated to move Dunn for a Wilkin Ramirez.
That being said, if I’m DD, I would not hesitate to give up a prospect for him. Just not Turner or Oliver.
$ 77 million is coming off the payroll after the 2010 season
Ordonez $ 18 million
Bonderman 12.5 mil
Robertson 12.0
Willis 12.0
Damon 8.0
Inge 6.6
Laird 3.9
Seay 2.45
Everett 1.55
Total 77 million
The ONLY scheduled salary increase is Verlander’s $ 6 mil
The only arb eligibles are Galarraga, Raburn, Zumaya, and Miner
There could be some non tenders in that group, and they’ve all been in the minors or on the DL this season. No big increases there.
Lots of money to get a 3B, SS, OF, SP, RP, Catcher, and a No. 2 hitter.
Some of the above free agents may be resigned, trades made, etc, but there is plenty of room for some good free agents. I vote for Crawford and Lee.
There are not really any attractive FA at those positions
Aside from Crawford.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 25, 2010 9:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Beltre will probably bail on Boston
It’s valuable for him to hit the open market.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 25, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see the Tigers making any Trades now.
If DD makes a trade now I’m pretty sure it will be like last year, not worth a @. Lets just hope we can hold off the Royals & Indians now.
by TigersFan1957 on Jul 25, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah
But the difference is that Oliver is in the minors to develop- that’s where he belongs. Now if Detroit will only leave him there.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 25, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Oliver has waaaay better mechanics
He will be good.
by ChrisDTX on Jul 25, 2010 9:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If they let him develop secondary pitches.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 25, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The organization called him up in the first place
That doesn’t let him develop those secondary pitches.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 25, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I question this to a degree
I didn’t play minor league ball, if you did, please jump in with some insight.
I think that your success matters to you in the minors as well. If I’m Andy Oliver, I’m still going to try to get guys out when I’m in a game, whether it’s Detroit, Toledo, Erie, MLB-The Show, or my beer-league softball. I’m not going to toss up a 8.45 ERA in the name of “working on my curve ball”; I want my numbers to look shiny and nice for the decision makers. I bet a lot of these guys don’t work on their secondary stuff during a game; they do it during side sessions.
Maybe I’m wrong…just trying to think like a AAA ballplayer, but if I’m right, you can pitch side sessions at Comerica to work on your other pitches.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
My guess
is at the AA level, the hitters won’t be crushing a curveball every time you hang it over the plate. He can afford to miss with his breaking stuff every once in a while. The guys in the minors can hit fastballs; it’s the breaking stuff that usually keeps them from the big leagues.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
This
They can’t hit Oliver’s fastball well in AA- that’s why he’s done so well. He needs to be willing to take the risk with his secondary stuff in the minors, and if I were his pitching coach, I’d be pushing him to.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 26, 2010 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea Right to all.
How do you get batters out?
By knowing how to pitch. What you all call secondary pitches. They should all be considered Primary Pitches & they should know how to use them by now. Nurturing is something the Tigers staff has not been able to do at all for years. They send them back to the Minors to get their head & mechanics back in order. It is the top staffs job to help these guys perform, if they can’t do it then they should be Fired & the Minor league staff brought up. Miller & so many others coming through our organization over the last few year have been Hyped up & traded. Maybin is a Mediocre ball player, Miller & the guy we traded last year to Seattle (I can’t remember his name) are both pitching in the minors for their clubs now, they just can’t perform. Maybe Oliver will make it & maybe he won’t. We need starters that can go 7 & 8 innings giving up 3 runs or less per 7 & 8 inning game. We don’t have that Consistency & we need that to win our division & more.
Sorry…..
Starters do not regularly go 7 or 8 innings any longer.
The days of specialized bullpen roles is the here and now. Most players drafted will never reach the majors. Luke French was never a big prospect, he was more of a younger, cheaper Jarrod Washburn (at best). Mauricio Robles is the more important pitcher from the Washburn trade, and he’s doing pretty well; he may be reaching the Mariners sooner rather than later.
Only a very few pitchers have more than one pitch that grades as “primary” stuff. Knowing how to throw them does not automatically add the movement or arm slot needed to get by higher level minor league batters, let alone MLB caliber hitters who can feast on mistakes. You cannot really learn while pitching at the ML level. Even guys like Nick Punto can make a pitcher pay for mistakes. This eliminates pitches in many situations, leading to throwing only one pitch the majority of the time, with a second thrown in and no thought to the third pitch. Not many MLB pitchers survive with only two pitches. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Randy Johnson.
The top staff is there to help with adjustments, not teach what should have been learned at the lower levels. You have to perform at the MLB level, you do not have much in the way of rope, especially not on a club that has some aspirations of contending for a playoff birth.
Maybin is having trouble but he’s still young (23); calling him mediocre is disingenuous. He hasn’t been a superstar but he still has the chance to reach more of his potential. Miller? He’s one of the many high draft picks that probably won’t have much of a career at the ML level, perhaps a reliever but it is looking like he’ll be a wash out.
The minor leagues is for nuturing, the major leagues are for performance (with tweaks here and there).
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
dunn
yes to dunn – only if we can make him play 3B, SS, 2B or C, he wont, so forget it.
forget about displacing Cabrera.
Haren : so what, 16 other teams won a game tonight without Dan Haren.
Oliver
Of course pitchers at every level are going to try to get hitters out every at bat. But in the major leagues, they don’t have the luxury of being able to work on pitches that aren’t their best pitch. In spring training, or in the minors, if Oliver were to throw his best pitch every time, he’d never throw anything but a fast ball. In the majors, he has to throw his best pitch, and not mess around trying to expand his repertoire. What we learned from his brief call up, as if we didn’t already know it, was that Andy’s secondary stuff isn’t ready for show time.
Dunn would play the outfield some and DH some. He’s played OF much more than anywhere else in his career. He’d have two months of being on a contender, and he’d be fine with that.
You can take Rick Porcello's name
Work it into you first paragraph and see why I still think he belongs at AAA.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 26, 2010 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Porcello needs more polish.
And getting a few more starts in Toledo wouldn’t hurt but the big club doesn’t seem think it can afford that luxury.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
To Porcello's credit
His breaking ball actually, you know, breaks.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Andy Oliver's breaks.
After the fans finish fighting for it in the stands.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
No to Dunn,
especially for RF, our defense is bad already….
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