Leyland's lousy linups are irksome
by Tigerdog1 on Jul 25, 2010 10:04 PM EDT
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We've seen Clete Thomas batting third, Marcus Thames batting second, Craig Monroe batting second, Inge batting third, Rhymes batting second, Laird hitting second, and now Damon batting third.
Memo to Mr. Leyland- With Magglio out, you don't have a replacement in the organization for him to bat third. If you drop Damon down to third, where he is inadequate, you then blow a hole in the lineup. That's the hole that required DD to go out and sign Damon to begin with. Quit putting AAA players at the top of the batting order. Ever! I have never been one in favor of moving Cabrera up to third as long as we had a .400 plus OBP guy to put ahead of him in the three spot. But with Magglio out, we don't need minor leaguers trying to set Cabrera's table. Just move Miggy up one spot, and leave the holes at the bottom of the order.
And then, there is this gem, from Mlive.com
Leyland said Larish would not play in the outfield and that Sizemore would not play second. Rhymes started the second game at second base, but he also has seen time at third base, shortstop, center field and right field at Toledo this season.
What? Why not play Sizemore at second base? Earlier this season, he was the annointed one at second! That is his only real position on the diamond. He was moved to third in a silly decision to call him up ahead of Larish, maybe because Jeff wasn't on the roster at the time. Put Larish at third, Sizemore at second, and call up Jeff Fraser in place of Magglio to play the outfield.
Sizemore has been settled in at second base in the minors for a reason. That's his position! Just like Raburn finally settled in the outfield, after he looked like the butcher of Baghdad in the infield. He hadn't played in the infield for over a season and a half until Leyland put him there.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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I agree with everything you said.
And if he doesn’t try to put players at their natural positions, he should be fired. It’s hard enough to transition to the majors. If the position is open like second base is there is no excuse to play size more at 3rd, especially when you have Larish up.
I forgot to say when I posted this, that i'm not usually a fire Leyland guy.
Tigerdog1 touched on my 2 biggest issues with Leyland.
the defense I agree with
But leyland has said in the past that he plugs people into spots in the lineup where they wouldn’t normally belong because he wants his regular hitters in a comfortable groove. I won’t say it’s a good strategy, but he has a rhyme to his reason…. er, insanity
The time for reckoning has come, and we already have the answer
but think about it...
The only difference to Cabrera about batting 3rd or 4th, IS THE NUMBER IN FRONT OF HIS NAME ON A LINEUP CARD!!
The difference is whether there are men on base when he's up or not.
Is the first baseman holding with the runner, opening a gap on the right side?
Is there a man in scoring position that the league’s best RBI man can drive in?
Or is there some kid just called up from Toledo batting second because Leyland wants to minimize the changes to the lineup?
by Tigerdog1 on Jul 26, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not true!!!
There is a statiscal difference in the amount of ABs the 3 hole gets on a yearly basis vs cleanup. I have tried finding it online but can’t right now, maybe somebody else can look it up but iirc it is about 60 ABs over the course of the year difference. To not have the league MVP batting THIRD, and losing ABs to Mags, Raburn (lmao), Damon or whomever the ol senile one puts there is borderline retarded…actually, it is retarded. This is another prime example of why teh game has passed ol JImmy by…no doubt in my mind that he is the worst “game” manager in all of ball.
by Tigersjunkie on Jul 27, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lousy Lineups Maybe.
However right now theres not much he can do.
by BennieBladesFan on Jul 26, 2010 12:18 AM EDT reply actions
He could leave Sizemore at 2B where he belongs.
He doesn’t have to move Damon to the 3 spot, blowing a hole at the top of the order.
He doesn’t have to put an AAA player at the top of the lineup, batting second or third.
He doesn’t have to continue putting Raburn in the infield, even though he has conclusively proven that he’s a liability in the infield.
Who is supposed to play 3rd base?
Larish is not a natural third baseman. He’s only played 60 games at 3B vs. 459 in his 6 seasons in the minors. This is the first year he’s played more than 10 games at 3B.
I like what the organization is doing by plugging Sizemore at 3rd. With Inge out, we have a chance to see if he can be replaced internally instead of searching a bare bones market for someone we’ll just overpay for less-than-stellar production (see: Beltre, Adrian). If Sizemore proves that he’s capable of playing 3rd, that fills a void for the organization.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Reply fail
that was supposed to be a reply to Bulvine’s comment. But I guess it works here too.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Who is supposed to play 3rd base?
1. Larish
2. Rhymes
3. Worth
4. Santiago
All of the above have played more third base, and played it well for various amounts of time, than Sizemore has. Larish was reportedly doing very well, just three errors and pretty good range playing third in the majority of his games this season. Worth was playing third when he was called up to Detroit. Rhymes has played 2B and 3B. Sizemore played one game at third, before they decided to call him up.
The more AAA players that they try to plug into the vacancies that will be created (or have been created), the worse off the team will be. There’s not a single above average major league caliber player in the bunch, IMO.
And putting Larish/Rhymes/Worth/Santiago there does?
I don’t see any of them as a real upgrade at 3B over Sizemore. And if they are, they would likely be an upgrade at 2B too. I’d rather have the better D up the middle.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Fielding-wise
Worth or Sanitago would provide more value. Offense wise, it’s Larish.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 26, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
They have hardly played more at 3rd
Larish I have already covered.
Santiago played 3B for 5 games in AAA in 2005. He’s only played SS and 2B since.
Rhymes has played 25 games at 3B in three years (24 at AAA). 3 of his 4 errors this year have come at 3B in only 13 of his 80 games played.
Worth played 38 games at 3B for Toledo in the last two years but hadn’t played it at all in his two pro season before that.
It’s not like we’re getting a seasoned veteran to play 3B until Inge limps back to the lineup.
I would much rather have the better defender at 2B than 3B. We’ve already seen (well, sort of) that Sizemore is in Detroit for his bat, not his glove. He may butcher a throw or two at 3B, but the ability for the SS and 2B to turn double plays with regularity is much more important IMO.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
You have no idea how much I agree with you right now
Except on the Raburn hate. I will be vindicated!
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 26, 2010 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Damn
We agree on more than I thought.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 26, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Raburn is horrible
Can’t field any position well and his ab’s are atrocious. He’s in the minors in most cities but Detroit….the man crush ol smokey is downright scary….just sayin
by Tigersjunkie on Jul 27, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Sizemore at 3B
I thought moving him to 3B should of been done long ago. He looks more comfortable there too.
As for line-ups,
it doesn’t bother me to see unconventional guys moved up in the order. Whoever bats in front of Cabrera is going to see more fastballs. Most hitters will bat significantly better when they have good protection. It will be a golden opportunity for somebody.
We need guys on base ahead of Cabrera. Like a .370 OBP.
And if it isn’t to be found on this roster, then just move Cabrera up to third. That’s something that I never went along with.
agree agree agree
i agree Leyland creates problems by forcing players into playing out of their position.
(thats like putting Ringo Starr on lead guitar)
i agree Leyland creates problems by inserting players into the batting order where the player they are replacing should normally be. That is just laziness.
So we are paying for a manager who CREATES PROBLEMS? why?
Because the players are happy
Have we ever had clubhouse drama?
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 26, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
the players would be happy
if we hired Penelope Cruz for a manager also, I just don’t think that’s a good criteria.
Hey, I’m not a fire-leyland guy, as someone above also stated, I just want him to stop doing stupid stuff. It is not necessary.
(now that i think of it, I do think we should have Penelope Cruz in some capacity at Comerica. Letters to DD start NOW.)
No
Half of a manager’s job is to keep the players on the big league roster happy- keep them playing, manage egos, etc. Leyland is excellent at the human side of the game. His tactics are, however, lacking.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 26, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do that
when we can bring her straight to BYB?
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Who cares?
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Jul 26, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Laziness
I’ve seen this posted a couple of times; that Leyland is LAZY for not rearranging his lineup.
I feel very confident that it’s not laziness. I really think that one does not feel over-taxed by rearranging a lineup. It doesn’t make you physically tired…nor mentally. If it’s not work, than I don’t think you can accuse someone of being lazy for not doing it. Obviously, Leyland has reasons for not changing his lineup…I believe he claims his feeling is that his regular players are more comfortable when they have a normal spot in the lineup. I’ll take his word on this.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
not half
i agree that is one duty, i just think 50% is exaggerating it some.
He is supposed to manage the players, and manage the game situations in order to manage a win.
however, dave, i dont think hes ever going to change.
We can thank Mr. Leyland's amazing lineups for tonight as well
Good god, it’s like he doesn’t even try sometimes.
Though Lloyd McClendon deserves some blame for letting Kelly and Laird hit in the 9th, and pinch hitting for the only guy who made consistent hard contact all night. Ugh.
by ozymandius1024 on Jul 26, 2010 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You can't blame Leyland for tonight
Even if he had rested Jackson, Boesch, and Cabrera, you would expect someone to get a hit at some point. It’s been 20 years since it happened the last time (and that was a HOF pitcher that did it). We were due. The great thing about baseball is that there’s another game tomorrow night and we can forget about it.
by handsomerob1 on Jul 26, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not a "fire Leyland" guy, either.
And I agree with David’s comment that he manages the “human side” of the game very well.
Fans often get frustrated when the manager doesn’t panic at the first sign of trouble. If he did that, there would be no stability at all, players come to the park wondering what changes would be made in their routine because of the trigger happy manager.
Leyland’s players come ready to play. They’d go through a wall for him, because he respects them as individuals and as players. There’s no doubt who’s the boss in the clubhouse, and there aren’t any antics or temper tantrums from Tiger players.
But the things Leyland does that bug me are when he puts obviously lousy players in roles that they clearly do not belong in, and when he takes out effective pitchers just to get his lefty/ righty match up. Like taking out Weinhardt, for example, and putting in Brad Thomas just cuz he’s a lefty. Or taking out Coke for some righty that isn’t as good. I’ve always differed from Leyland on these points. But that doesn’t mean that a different manager would do any different, or any better.
Oh, and he hates to use the safety squeeze, even when there is a certain win to be had.
by Tigerdog1 on Jul 26, 2010 10:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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