Cabrera Is The MVP, Right?
by Statimagician on Aug 20, 2010 5:54 PM EDT
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For much of the season I believe Cabrera was the unquestioned MVP for most baseball fans, he was (and still is) a triple crown threat, and is a among the leaders in just about every offensive category except for steals and triples.
Lately, though, I've been hearing names like Josh Hamilton, Paul Konerko, and Jose Bautista being thrown into the mix and seriously considered the winner. I realize this is normal, but many think the Rangers can sweep the four major awards.
Of course the main reason there are other names in the pot is that the Tigers are out of playoff contention. I don't think this should matter since their are 8 other people on the field, and its tough to carry a rookie laden and injury prone team to the playoffs.
Please calm my nerves and tell me Cabrera is going to win the MVP award.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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Two strikes: losing team, Detroit.
Though some would say those are really the same thing, in the MVP vote those two cases are going to sink Miguel’s chance at an MVP.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
If one of his triple crown numbers
was far and away better than #2 he’d have a shot, but he’ll probably end up 3rd in the voting
In the 8th grade Mike Ditka won his school's Science Fair with a model of a working volcano. There were 17 other working volcano's made that day, but only one named Mount Ditka.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Aug 24, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I am with Tony
as much as Miggy is deserving. The problem is the team that leads gets the MVP guy, usually. Look at Gibby the year he got it. 25, 76, & a .290 was deserving? Not hardly.
The two most deserving
Are Cabby and Josh Hamilton. So expect Hamilton to win since he’s on a contender.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
Hamilton
I’m not saying it should be Josh Hamilton, just that it will be. The BBWAA isn’t exactly a distinguished bunch these days.
Yeah, it'll be Hamilton
As long as the offensive numbers remain close, his defense will put him over the top. Also, Hamilton is white, and let’s not act like that’s not a factor (Pedroia, Morneau), especially with 70 year old sportswriters.
Eh
There was a big movement in 2006 or 2007 to give it to Ryan Howard over Albert Pujols (I think Howard actually won that year). Methinks race isn’t a huge factor.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 21, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but I do think latino players (especially those with poor English) are at a disadvantage with the media and fans.
It’s certainly not going to help Miguel here.
Ichiro struggles with English
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 21, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, he is rather fluent (read: pretty much fluent)
He just avoids talking to the media and uses his interpreter as a wedge.
Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.
Did not know that
Funny… nice use of an interpreter.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 22, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Morneau was somehow much, much better than Vernon Wells?
Look at Bonds against ’96 Caminiti or ’00 Jeff Kent. Look at A-Rod or Pedro against ’00 Giambi.
Really awesome seasons like ’97 Larry Walker or ’91 Ripken result in landslide votes.
MVP voting is a ridiculous exercise at best. There are tons of bad reasons why the voting happens the way it does. I personally believe that race at least earns the benefit of the doubt.
and I personally believe this site isn't going to get into some race war
by Kurt Mensching on Aug 22, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Not worth it.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 22, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
the last white guy to win MVP in the NL was Jeff Kent in 2000
We’ve had guys named Rodriguez (x2), Guerrero, Suzuki and Tejada win the AL MVP in the past 10 years.
I think bringing race into this is way off base.
by Kurt Mensching on Aug 21, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, nice timing.
Buster Olney has an insider article about this topic on ESPN this morning. No idea what it says, other than that he has Miggy above Hamilton.
Hamilton I thnik
Please look at All Star Game voting last year.
He was @ DL , but most of time he had place as starter @ ASG.
Don't confuse "best hitter" with "most valuable player".
The MVP award is given to the player that has the most value to his team.
Many MVP voters insist on giving the award to the player that puts his team in the playoffs. The Tigers could miss the playoffs either with or without Miggy. I’d vote for him, but voters that apply the ol “but for” test are more apt to go with a Josh Hamilton or Robbie Cano, IMO.
That being said, if Miggy makes a serious run at the triple crown before this thing is over, he will get a lot of votes.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Hamilton.
Silver slugger is the best hitter at each position. He will probably win that. Short of a triple crown, no chance at MVP.
Country Strong
Definitely possible
Unfortunately not a slam dunk though
by ryan_matthews28 on Aug 22, 2010 11:56 AM EDT reply actions
The MVP
will go to a player on a winning team; always has. Rangers make the playoffs; Josh Hamilton wins hands down, sadly.
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A-Rod in 2003 with the 71-91 Texas Rangers is a recent exception to this
by ryan_matthews28 on Aug 24, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
If you're head and shoulders above another player, the playoff rule doesn't apply
Miggy isn’t.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 24, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Cabrera for MVP
Do they take into account how many times a player is intentionally walked. Besides being the best hitter and being close to a triple crown, nobody is even close to walking as much as Cabrera. The other team is afraid to pitch to him.
Not a huge margin
I think Miggy has about 22 or 23 IBBs. That’s only about 10 or 12 more than 2nd place. I wouldn’t say that’s enough lost AB’s to consider.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
I don't think he meant its affect on the stats, just the respect factor.
“If the other teams all think he’s the MVP, then he should be.”
Agree
After re-reading the post, that was his intent. Do IBB’s reflect respect for the player or disrespect for the player batting afterward? :)
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
Everyone always forgets Albert
Until we realize at the end of the season he’s top 3 in all the triple crown categories (both the conventional HR/AVG/RBI and the SABR AVG/OBP/SLG).
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 23, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He's the Tim Duncan of baseball
So consistently amazing that people take it for granted.
"Detroit Bad Boys is full of HOMOS ,JACKASSES and NON-sports fans."
-ralphgoblue/thunder_god08
by Thom_not_Tom on Sep 2, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Not just because I go to Wake and love the Tim Duncan reference either.
Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys
Free Scott Sizemore!
I'd love it if he did
But I think it’s going to be Cano or Hamilton (unless Miguel just goes on an insane tear in September).
Hamilton plays on a team that’s likely to win their division, and he still has the whole recovered drug addict story going for him (sportswriters will eat it up, again). Cano plays a middle infield position, plays good/great defense, is having an excellent offensive year, and plays for the Yankees (oh he does it on the Biggest Stage, the games Mean More, etc.).
Like I said, Miguel is going to have to just go on a complete tear and leave everyone in the dust in Sept. to win the award, and I don’t think he’s got it in him (and I don’t fault him, because he’s been amazing this season).
by ozymandius1024 on Aug 23, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions
Agreed
I do think that winning should play a bit of a role for this award. Miggy is probably having the best offensive season, but not by enough of a landslide to ignore the fact that the other players teams are winning. Should be a great vote, though.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
Winning shouldn't matter at all
It’s an individual award. Cabrera is by far the best hitter in the league this season, ask any manager, I’m sure Ned Yost and Joe Maddon will tell you they’d rather face Hamilton in a big situation than Miggy.
What does the V in MVP mean?
When the award is designed to recognize a valuable player, I would assume that the value is based on his team.
If I’m a baseball card collector, my Ricky Henderson rookie card may have a value of $100. Granted, I may value the card for personal reasons, so it has a certain intrinsic value. However, the actual $100 extrinsic value comes from the fact that I can actually convert the card into the amount. When we’re talking about baseball players, the extrinsic value of a player to a team lies in his ability to help the team win. (I’ll agree that there are intrinsic values to a team as well, such as PR). However, the extrinsic value is still winning.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
Why in the hell would value be based on his team?
It should be based on the value…of the player’s performance. Not the team, because a player can only do so much.
It stems from that stupid “hurr hurr well how valuable was he if his team didn’t make the playoffs”.
That is a bullshit argument, no offense. It is no different than using W/L to determine pitcher value, something that no-one really takes seriously, yet people take this seriously for some reason.
This is the quintessential debate
Is the MVP a team or individual award, or a combination of the two? I lean toward the hybrid, with team performance serving as a tiebreaker.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 26, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
How is a performance valuable...
…if it doesn’t produce anything?
If a tree falls in the woods an no one hears it…blah blah blah.
And no offense, but when you say an argument is bullshit, it’s offensive. (But I’m tough to offend.)
I just feel that if a players outstanding performance (and Cabrera has been outstanding) helps his team make the playoffs, it is more valuable than if his team had not.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
This is no different than the debate about pitcher W/L.
It is the same logic. How good was a pitcher if he didn’t get a win?
If I said this, I would be (rightfully) laughed off of BYB, but this argument, which is virtually the same, is taken seriously.
well, just try to keep the bullshit out of it
and “no offense” is always what someone says when they know they’re being offense. So if it gets to that point hit the backspace a few times and start over without the offense, hey?
by Kurt Mensching on Aug 26, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
The W/L does indeed stink.
But a pitcher’s team can still win a ballgame if the pitcher doesn’t get the win.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
But it does
That’s the truth. It sucks, but barring some radical change in the sportswriting community…
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 25, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
This Link
Should shine some light on the subject.
It’s not a perfect argument for Miguel, but it’s hard to make a case against him
http://the-313.blogspot.com/2010/08/award-ceremony-case-for-miguel-and.html
Aidan Hall
http://the-313.blogspot.com/
25 Intentional Walks
Is double anyone else in the league. Joe Mauer and Robinson Cano are at 12.
I think the AL pitchers have made it pretty clear who they fear the most.
L'Équipe! L'Équipe! L'Équipe!
Or, which #5 hitter sucks more
Take your pick on this one.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
I'm kinda with you.
And on the Yankees, managers seem to be walking Tex, at least more recently.
Assist. Editor, Minor League Division, Bless You Boys
Daniel Fields is better than you.
by David Tokarz on Aug 25, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
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