Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Diego Sanchez and the Dangers of Fame in MMA

25 for 25: Tigers edition

A day late but I'll bump this to the front for discussion.

I'm actually a St. Louis Cardinals fan, but over the past few months I've been working on a roster for each franchise in the majors, composed of players over the last 25 years. The way this works is that I pick one player from each season and I have to fill out an entire roster (for AL teams, 2 catchers, 2 infielders at each position, 5 total outfielders, one designated hitter, 5 starting pitchers, 4 relievers). I can't take more than one player for each year, I have to take one player each season even in the bad years, and I can't use the same player for multiple positions or years. If a player played the majority of his games at one position, I can't use that season for another position even if he's played it before. And I used basic minimums of 60 innings or 250 PA's (prorated for strike seasons). I primarily utilized WAR from Baseball-Reference (Fangraphs numbers only go back to 2002), WARP1 from Baseball Prospectus, Win Shares, and OPS+/ERA+ to determine season value.

The interesting part with this are the decisions that have to be made, whether it is, "Dang, there are some really nice outfielder seasons to choose from, who gets left out?", or, "Does this team even have two decent catchers in a 25-year span?", or, "This guy had so many great years - which one do I choose?" Sometimes a great year gets left out, sometimes a fluke, partial season gets tabbed for the team. I actually posted a fully researched extended version for the Cardinals from 1910 to 1934. The NL versions for this era are there as well (linky, linky, linky, linky).

You're welcome to pick apart my choices and make suggestions of your own. I'm looking forward to hearing from everybody.

Star-divide

C – Mickey Tettleton (1991), Ivan Rodriguez (2004)

1B – Darrell Evans (1985), Cecil Fielder (1990)

2B – Lou Whitaker (1989), Damion Easley (1998)

3B – Travis Fryman (1994), Brandon Inge (2005)

SS – Alan Trammell (1987), Carlos Guillen (2006)

OF – Rob Deer (1992), Tony Phillips (1993), Bobby Higginson (2000), Magglio Ordonez (2007), Curtis Granderson (2008)

DH – Dmitri Young (2003)

SP – Jack Morris (1986), David Wells (1995), Justin Thompson (1997), Steve Sparks (2001), Justin Verlander (2009)

RP – Mike Henneman (1988), Richie Lewis (1996), Doug Brocail (1999), Juan Acevedo (2002)

Notable exceptions: Chad Kreuter (1993), Miguel Cabrera (2009), Placido Polanco (2007), Kirk Gibson (1985), Chet Lemon (1987), Jeff Weaver (2001), Willie Hernandez (1985)

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.

Comment 19 comments  |  2 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Ooh

That’s a difficult game. Funny how Cabrera kinda has to get left out (his 2008 was eh, and Verlander clearly beat him in 2009).

Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys

Free Scott Sizemore!

by David Tokarz on Sep 1, 2010 12:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Interesting challenge with some good picks

I haven’t looked at the performance of all of these players / years, but the list has the right feel. Relievers are pretty brutal though. No Todd Jones, Willie Hernandez, or even long relievers who had a lot of wins. Emphasizes how rough it was from 99 to 02.

by MR_AZ on Sep 1, 2010 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Fryman

I’d take Fryman’s 1993 year over his 1994 year.

by KeystoneTiger on Sep 1, 2010 9:53 AM EDT reply actions  

I wish the Tigers had a Tony Phillips right now.

Ryan Raburn antagonist.
Scott Sizemore liberationist.

by 13194013 on Sep 1, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

RYAN RABURN!

Kidding, mostly. Phillips was an on-base machine, and while Raburn is a decent hitter, he’s not quite a machine.

Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys

Free Scott Sizemore!

by David Tokarz on Sep 1, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tony Phillips was one of my favs

I rememebr going to opening day in 93 and I think he had 3 hits and 2 walks

by BennieBladesFan on Sep 8, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

On-base MACHINE

Man, I liked Tony Phillips. Even at 6.

Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys

Free Scott Sizemore!

by David Tokarz on Sep 9, 2010 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fryman at SS in '93

You’d be dropping Guillen in favor of Fryman and having to find a replacement at 3B. As for the years involved, you might switch Phillips over to ’94 (his better season, per 162), bump Inge to ’06, replace Fryman at 3B with Dean Palmer in ’99, and replace Brocail with Ferdnando Rodney in ’05. So you get rid of Guillen & Brocail, upgrade Fryman, Phillips & Inge, but downgrade at reliever and 3B – your call.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 6, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

1993

Looking at ’93, what a wasted year. I see why Phillips is the selection for ’93 and not Fryman, since he was the best overall in ’94 then. This is definitely some interesting research that was done.

by KeystoneTiger on Sep 1, 2010 10:00 AM EDT reply actions  

I'll go with Miggy's 2010 season!

Then you can bump Evans from 85 and go with Gibby’s 85 season.
.287/ .364/ .518 = .882 OPS, 29 HR, 97 RBI, 30 steals, 96 runs

If you survived 2003, you can get through this!

by Tigerdog1 on Sep 2, 2010 6:07 PM EDT reply actions  

It's a 25 year : 25 man roster

If you pick Miggy for 2010, 1985 is no longer part of the era and you don’t get Evans OR Gibson.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 2, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very interesting

It’s almost like a puzzle to find other good ways to do it.

by Elfuego51 on Sep 2, 2010 6:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Try it on older eras

The 1910-1934 timeframe would be amazing for you guys. Cobb, Crawford, Delahanty, Veach, etc., would be a lot of fun to research.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 2, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even doing the "All Time Tigers" team isn't really easy

1B Greenberg, Cash
2B Gehringer, Whitaker
SS Trammell, dunno
3B Kell, Fryman
OF Kaline, Cobb, Crawford, Heilmann, Horton
C Freehan, Parrish
P Lolich, Morris, etc

If you survived 2003, you can get through this!

by Tigerdog1 on Sep 2, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

1910 to 1934 Tigers edition

Just for the hell of it, I went ahead and did the 1910-34 Tigers roster. (I got it stuck in my head and needed to get it out, without resorting to surgery.) Same rules as before, with a couple changes – no DH obviously, so add a 6th outfielder; also add a 6th starting pitcher and remove a reliever because it’s too damn hard to find decent guys for the bullpen (they were mostly failed starters). 1918 & 1919 are shortened seasons due to the war, so keep that in mind. So have at it and let me know what you think. (My apologies for not including links, just want to get it done.)

C – Eddie Ainsmith (1919), Johnny Bassler (1924)

1B – Lu Blue (1922), Dale Alexander (1929)

2B – Baldy Louden (1912), Charlie Gehringer (1933)

3B – George Moriarty (1914), Ossie Vitt (1915)

SS – Donie Bush (1910), Billy Rogell (1932)

OF – Ty Cobb (1911), Sam Crawford (1913), Bobby Veach (1917), Harry Heilmann (1923), Al Wingo (1925), Heinie Manush (1926)

SP – Harry Coveleski (1916), Bernie Boland (1918), Dutch Leonard (1921), Earl Whitehill (1927), George Uhle (1930), Schoolboy Rowe (1934)

RP – Doc Ayers (1920), Elam Vangilder (1928), Art Herring (1931)

Notable exceptions: Mickey Cochrane (1934), Hank Greenberg (1934), Marty McManus (1930), Topper Rigney (1924), Bob Fothergil (1927), George Mullin (1911), Herman Pillette (1922), Hooks Dauss (1923), Lil Stoner (1925), Tommy Bridges (1934), Chief Hogsett (1932)

NOTE: Stoner was good, but not great; I just thought it would be funny to throw his name out there.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 6, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Game is awesome

But I’d definitely swap Miguel Cabrera (2008) for Darrell Evans (1985) — both led league in homers, but Cabrera had 127 RBI to Evans’ 94 plus hit 40 points higher. (Love Evans, though.) Then you take out Granderson’s not-great 2008 and put Gibby from 1985 in there. 29 homers, 30 steals — stud.

by MarsupialJones on Sep 2, 2010 11:43 PM EDT reply actions  

In terms of WAR/WARP1

Swapping out Granderson (4.8 WARP1 / 5.2 WAR) for Gibson (4.4 / 4.7) is pretty much a wash, but taking out Evans (3.7 / 3.6) in favor of Cabrera (2.4 / 3.1) is actually a downgrade. I know that Gibson is a legend around these parts and the RBI by Miggy are impressive, but objectively you’re better off the other way around. (Plus Darrell Evans is a legitimate Hall-of-Famer in my book, so I’d give the nod to him.)

BTW, I barely even looked at the traditional counting stats while assembling these teams. It’s too much work to have to sift through all the stats in “longhand”, especially when there are such nice simple WAR / WARP1 numbers available (that also include defense & whatnot). It really adds up when you do 30 of these and have to double or triple your time spent on each team (already 8-10 hours each, over 300 total including posting and follow-up).

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 3, 2010 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Detroit-tigers-logo_small
Winter Ball Wrap-Up: Dominican Republic

Recent FanPosts

Tigers1978_800x600_small
2012: The Year Of The Tigers
Small
How Can I Hate the Signing of Prince Fielder?
Copy_of_tiger_camp_015_small
Succeeding Jim Leyland
Nate_small
What would it take to get Cabrera?
Carlos_small
Tigers Fan 2012 Hopes & Fears
2kv_small
Is Dlugach back???
100_1952_small
Cecil Fielder criticizes Prince Fielder before awards ceremony
Dsc0178-l_small
BYB writing opportunity available!
Small
.304 Average for Austin Jackson?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Quick Rules

Do:

  • Treat others like you'd like to be treated.
  • Stick to the topic being discussed.
  • Make arguments based on facts, not emotion.
Don't:
  • Confuse BYB with talk radio, your blog or your social networking web site of choice. We're a baseball community.
  • Feed the trolls.

Commenting Code of Conduct


Managing Editor

Dsc0178-l_small Kurt Mensching

Deputy Editors

Meatcomputer-1_small BigAl

Sparky_anderson_wall_small handsomerob1

5532934019_b5fa57ae98_small allikazoo

Contributors

Hpim0067_small Tigerdog1

6m2bts_small Melissa Heyboer

Moderators

Be050826_small NCDee

Sifl_and_olly_small 13194013