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Armando Galarraga reaches imperfect ending in Detroit

Could we ever have dreamed today's news possible in those early days of June when all minds were on the imperfect ending to Armando Galarraga's perfect game?

The news today came in the same whiplash form, leaving onlookers nearly as shocked, astonished and angry as when umpire Jim Joyce spread his arms to signal safe as Galarraga held onto what should have been his 27th consecutive out and instant trip to the record books.

Just six hours after the Tigers announced the signing of Galarraga to a one-year deal worth $2.3 million, they followed up with another note: Galarraga had been designated for assignment to make room for Brad Penny on the team's 40-man roster.

Galarraga may have been as perfect as a pitcher can be for one night, but the team felt he just wasn't good enough for the other 23 of them last year to remain in Detroit's rotation. The Tigers will now attempt to trade the native of Venezuela to a team that has room left in theirs.

"It's not an ideal scenario by any means. But it's also (the one) we thought was the best way to handle it," Tigers president and general manager Dave Dombrowski said in a conference call just hours after talking to Galarraga on the phone to explain the decision to him.

Galarraga's career in Detroit appears to have reached its imperfect ending.

Star-divide

Why the deal was done

Galarraga finished the 2010 season with 24 games started and an ERA of 4.49. He opened the season with Triple-A Toledo and found himself back in the Glass City by July to keep him in tune over Major League Baseball's all-star break. On any given night, he could be an incredible pitcher, despite lacking the kinds of pitches you would normally consider unhittable. Just weeks after his meeting with baseball history, Galarraga allowed 14 runs during a three game stretch. Over three days in August, he allowed just three runs. By September, he pitched three consecutive starts without making it out of the sixth inning, allowing 18 runs over that span.

Galarraga was not a pitcher you could count on to stem the bleeding. He wasn't one you knew you could count on in any given game. He could be great. He could be awful. You just didn't know. That made him a risky player on a team with a pretty good shot at making it to the postseason for the first time since 2006.

"He can be a successful major league pitcher," Dombrowski said. "At time he shows the flashes. Not upper echelon, but back of the rotation. I don’t really know the answer (to Galarraga finding better consistency) but I hope for his own sake he goes out there and he accomplishes what he can."

Still, he was good enough to be considered for Detroit's rotation in 2011. The Tigers felt like they had bigger holes to deal with, Dombrowski said. Their bullpen was lacking. Their left side of the infield and right field were both empty with the impending free agency of Brandon Inge, Jhonny Peralta and Magglio Ordonez. They had problems getting runners across home plate. The middle of their batting order consisted of Miguel Cabrera and the Mud Hens. Get those problems dealt with, then the Tigers could think about upgrading their rotation. And that's only if they found a player who was clearly a step up from Galarraga, not a step to the side.

So they re-signed Inge and Peralta. They brought setupman Joquin Benoit into the fold. They secured the middle of the lineup with Victor Martinez.

And they starting speaking with Brad Penny, starting pitcher. When exactly the conversations began, Dombrowski wasn't sure. It might have been the Winter Meetings in December. It may even have been the GM meetings in November. One thing was certain: The front office members who were so excited about Penny when they were all with the Florida Marlins were still excited about him this winter, even though he was coming off a poor season with the Red Sox in 2009 and an injury-shortened season with the Cardinals in 2010. If healthy, Penny was the step up Detroit needed to take.

He was healthy. He rested the injury to his lat (back) properly, and completed some grueling physicals in Lakeland before signing a $3 million deal that could be worth as much as $6 million. Penny had a 3.23 ERA in nine starts last season with the Cardinals. He was pitching a lot more like the guy who started the All-Star Game for the National League in 2006 than the back-of-the-rotation starter who was released by the Red Sox in 2009.

"(Penny) does not have back of the rotation stuff," Dombrowski said. "He was still a mid-90s guy with his fastball. His main pitch was his fastball. Knowing Brad throughout the years, he has to pitch rather than to throw. We’re hopeful with that situation. He throws hard. He’s a guy that will average close to the mid-90s. he also has a solid breaking ball. He’s got a changeup. He’s in a position where he has good stuff.

"He would not be your traditional No. 5 starter when he takes the mound, other than that he hasn’t pitched a lot in the past few years.  … When you look at him and see he pitched on an all-star squad in 2006-07, we did not see a significant change."

Another key ingredient in the deal with Penny was the length. One year. The Tigers feel like Jacob Turner, Andrew Oliver and Charles Furbush are all close enough to help the club in a pinch, but far enough away that they'd all benefit from a full season in the minors. However, having a spot open for them to compete for in 2012 was definitely a goal.

"If you’re going to leave a spot open for those young guys to battle in the future it really had to be more of a one-year type deal," Dombrowski said.


What it means for Galarraga

Of course, what makes the DFA of Galarraga confusing to many is how quickly it came after the announcement of his arbitration-avoiding deal earlier in the day.

That came more due to the quirks and schedule of MLB collective bargaining than anything. Today was the deadline teams and players had for exchanging arbitration figures. The Tigers have a track record of avoiding arbitration hearings, and the deal with Galarraga meant that they again avoided that risk.

The Tigers have 10 days to sign, release or attempt to get Galarraga onto their minor league roster. They would like to trade him. Galarraga would like to have an opportunity to continue as a starter. If that kind of deal can be made, great. Dombrowski thinks it can but said there are no sure things right now.

"He's a pitcher that's performed at the major league level," Dombrowski said. "If you like him, he's signed at a reasonable (amount). There's a market for those types of guys. The later you go through the winter time and into spring training, some clubs may have had interest three months ago but now they may not. So those are the things that you deal as you go through this time of year and into spring training. At this time of year we still have a solid chance to make a move but only time will tell."

And if no deal is reached and no team wishes to pick up Galarraga on waivers -- they assume the full $2.3 million unguaranteed contract if they do -- it's possible Galarraga will go to Lakeland with a chance to make the rotation. It's unlikely, but you never know what will come up. If Galarraga does come to Lakeland, he can still be released before the season begins and will cost the team substantially less money -- the exact figure depends on when exactly that release was made official.

"For us, we don't look at him as a bullpen guy," Dombrowski said. "It's more a situation for him to make our club as a starter. If we don't trade him and he comes to camp he'll battle for a spot and he'll be in that position."

Risky move

Today's decision wasn't without risk, of course. By potentially giving up rotational depth, they're putting a lot of pressure on Rick Porcello to rebound from a poor sophomore effort, on Phil Coke to truly be ready to be a starting pitcher, on Brad Penny to remain healthy, and possibly on some of the prospects to step into a pressure-packed divisional race if anything happens to any of the current five in the rotation.

That just shows how much the Tigers want to see Galarraga continue as a starting pitcher -- as long as it's for someone else.

"We didn't feel there was any upside to bringing him to camp," Dombrowski said. "You can make a debate otherwise, but sorting through it, we couldn't find a better time."

Truly, this looks like it will be the imperfect ending to Galarraga's career in Detroit.

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Thanks for this, Kurt! :)

Just one question. Does this mean that he has to get traded in the 10-day period? I thought he could just get claimed off waivers, unless they have to release him first?

Go for it

by DetroitSports on Jan 18, 2011 7:09 PM EST reply actions  

It goes like this

Being DFA’ed means they take him off the 40 man roster immediately
They can go three ways- trade him, release him, or outright him to the minors
but to do either of the last two, he has to clear waivers, so they first see if they can trade for value
if they can’t get anything for him, he has to go on waivers
if he is claimed, his new club takes the player, contract and all
if he clears waivers, they can release him or outright him
if he is released, they pay him 30 days salary, or one sixth of annual salary
if he is outrighted to the minors, he makes full salary, but is off the 40 man roster in Toledo

Obviously, they’d like to get something for him, so he won’t be on waivers for a few days, yet

If you survived 2003, you can get through this!

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 18, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

See ya.

Sad to see him go, but it’s the right thing to do.

by rcpratt on Jan 18, 2011 7:23 PM EST reply actions  

DD and the "streak"...

So….DD signed him just to keep his streak of not going to arbitration…eva. W.E.A.K.

"Without deviation from the norm, 'progress' is not possible."

by Zappatista on Jan 18, 2011 7:35 PM EST reply actions  

Note entirely

It also makes him much easier to trade. The uncertainty of what, exactly, he might have gotten in arbitration if he wasn’t able to come to terms with his new team.

by Big Z in Orlando on Jan 19, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Great...

So again this year we will be one injury away from starting unprepared minor leaguers.

Basically the 2011 Tigers are the 2010 Tigers plus Vmart, a team with no pitching depth and tons of questions….

by jpolut on Jan 18, 2011 7:52 PM EST reply actions  

In all fairness

the 2010 Tigers with VMart and Maggs staying healthy would have had an excellent chance of winning their division.

by Trysdor on Jan 18, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

this team is definitely better than last year's edition

and i’m a guy who is typically conservative about such matters. But I do like this team’s potential a lot more.

by Kurt Mensching on Jan 18, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

There are several areas where the Tigers are better

V Mart is a big upgrade over Damon at the DH spot, and over Laird as the second catcher
Ordonez should be able to contribute more over a full season after missing almost the second half
Guillen could provide a boost if he can stay healthy
Benoit is a decent upgrade over Coke

no Everett, no Laird, no Willis for 8 starts, no Bonderman for 170 innings with the highest ERA among qualified starters in the entire league
Perry, Schlereth, Scherzer, Porcello, and Sizemore or Rhymes are all young guys that should only improve now that they have some time in the majors under their belts

Pitching depth is a concern for me also. Always has been, but if Andy Oliver can gain command of his breaking stuff, he’ll blow past Penny, Galarraga, and Coke in a flash. They will need something like that to happen, IMO, or the back end of the rotation could struggle.
And….. the winter’s not done yet.

If you survived 2003, you can get through this!

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 18, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Good Post

I like your optimism. When you put all the moves/changes on paper, we really have had a pretty good off-season so far. I’d like another SP to shore up some depth, but we’ve got time and I have faith in DD.

Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Fight!

by Brand New Hero on Jan 19, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Different team

Even though I can’t stand Jhonny, I would much rather have him and his average bat at SS than Opie’s

Member of the Will Rymes fanclub.

by cabby4mvp on Jan 18, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope they don't part on bad terms

I’d like to see him make a few guest appearances in the D after his baseball days are done.

Tigers Amateur Analysis

Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia

by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 18, 2011 7:55 PM EST reply actions  

Bye Bye

I don’t wish him any bad luck but damnit Armando develop a nastier side to yourself get the killer instinct and then you will succeed in MLB

by Da Jonesy on Jan 18, 2011 8:03 PM EST reply actions  

Sensible move

A guy you can’t help but root for, but he’s basically the reincarnation of Mike Maroth. To me, this decision basically says that the Tigers are more comfortable with a guy like Gagnier or his equivalent that gets released from elsewhere than Galarraga. Which is probably the correct answer. If they can get anything of value, it’s a win.

by theRPS on Jan 18, 2011 8:21 PM EST reply actions  

Incredible article

Better than usual, Kurt.

Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys

Free Scott Sizemore!

by David Tokarz on Jan 18, 2011 8:26 PM EST reply actions  

This tells me the budget is tight....

I can’t think of any other reason than cold hard cash that this went down this way. You can blow butterflies and flowers up our rear ends all day long with this bologna about giving him an opportunity to start, he’s not a bullpen guy, etc., but I don’t buy that. He can start for someone when he’s a free agent…you don’t just let somebody go because it’s good for their psyche. You throw them in the pen until you need them!

They simply feel like he was a couple million dollars more expensive than equivalent safety nets in Toledo and Eerie. If they felt like he could help the team, they would gladly pay him the couple of million to sit in the bullpen waiting for something bad to happen. Clearly, they don’t think that highly of him….which is a little surprising given that he was their best pitcher a few years ago and he pitched better than his numbers last year.

Hopefully Oliver doesn’t punt his next opportunity in the bigs because it just might be in the heat of a divisional race.

by BayesLaw on Jan 18, 2011 8:47 PM EST reply actions  

There are plenty of baseball reasons to do this.

It’s not exactly easy to sit a guy in the bullpen and keep him stretched out waiting to make a start just in case. To do that, they wouldn’t be able to use him for 1 or 2 innings at a time, so he’d really only pitch in blowouts and extra inning affairs. That basically leaves dead weight on the roster until the off chance that they actually need him to start, and it’s not really smart to have that situation. Converting him to a full-time reliever is kind of a waste because he really isn’t much better than the alternative short relievers they already have.

Just because they don’t need him anymore and then can save money getting rid of him doesn’t mean that the budget is tight. My budget is not tight, but I still prefer to save money when I can.

by Nick Galea on Jan 18, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

It really does make sense

they have signed him at a tradeable salary and if they can get something for him great, if not then they release him and send him on his way with a decent parting gift (how many of us wouldn’t love a 383k severance package).

Lets face it, Armando isn’t much above replacement level over the course of a season. As spring training settles and no name players around the league are being designated the tigers can pick someone up of equal caliber at a cheaper price (although slightly higher risk) that will be able to provide similar depth.

Before last year’s near perfect game if you asked anyone outside of Detroit who Armando Galaraga was, no one would have known who he was. Every organization has guys like this that can be had fairly cheap. Armando has a known name now, has shown limited (very limited) success in the majors and is decently priced, that he threw a almost perfect game is the only thing that separates him from every other organizations spot starter.

by wilsonm24 on Jan 18, 2011 9:00 PM EST reply actions  

Well said

Every organization does have players like Galaraga and the Tigers will get Galaraga-esque production elsewhere from within, so this really isn’t a big deal at all. It’s annoying however, because he showed flashes countless times but let’s face it; he wasn’t getting any younger and constantly gave starts away and severely taxed our bullpen. He did not give the Tigers a good chance to win by taking the mound on a consistent basis by any means. Someone will step up and at least put up similar, if not better, numbers then Galaraga if an injury does occur. But no matter, if our offense drives in runs and the top of our rotation pitches as they should, it should be a good year in Detroit and should come right down to it. knock on wood

by Sparten21 on Jan 18, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

In all my years as a Tigers fan this has to be one of the dumbest moves ever.

For all the positives that the Penny signing gave this team they removed all of it in one move.The rotation had depth with Gallarraga in it, now we have one pitcher who was injured most of last season and another who has not won one game as a MLB starter.I don’t care how much offense a team has if you don’t have quality pitching you can’t win anything.

by swish330 on Jan 18, 2011 9:34 PM EST reply actions  

Definitely not the dumbest

Believe it or not, DD and Avilia know WAYYYYY more than most of us ever will about the business. It may not be a popular move on the heels of what we all know was a perfect game, but it was the smart move. Just very odd timing

by tigers22 on Jan 18, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Referring to Galarraga as "quality pitching" is really stretching the term.

You all can judge how good of a pitcher he is by the return he gets in a trade. If he’s as good as many of the Tigers’ fans think he is, the Tigers will be able to get some decent players in return. And if they can’t, he’s probably not that good.

by Nick Galea on Jan 18, 2011 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I overvalue him

I freely admit that.

Tigers Amateur Analysis

Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia

by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 18, 2011 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

in V-Mafia terms

They just whacked one of her boys.

I'm expecting 100% improvement from the Lions this season.

by ahtrap on Jan 18, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Its not that Gallarraga is a quality starter,but he could be.

The Tigers have left themselves without any depth when it comes to the rotation.One we don’t know if Penny is healthy or will stay healthy.Two we don’t know if Coke will make it as a starter.So without Gallaraga who will start if Penny or Coke are either hurt or don’t produce.The Tigers could straighten this out by signing anouther pitcher or trading for one.So it will be interesting to see what they do,but at this point it seems like a bad move to me.

by swish330 on Jan 19, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Obviously, the Tigers have more confidence in Penny's health and Coke making it than you or I do.

I don’t like the lack of depth in the rotation, either, but it can’t be much worse than what they had last year. Willis was brutal in eight starts, Bonderman had the highest ERA in the league among qualified starters, Robertson was there this time last year, Miner, Bonine, Figaro, etc, etc….

To me, Armando is clearly a better option than anyone they still have in the system should the need arise, but they’re absolutely counting on Penny and Coke at this point. Alburquerque, Oxspring, Oliver, Furbush, Wilk, Below, etc are the depth as of now. If and when Oliver is ready, he’s got the stuff to be very effective, IMO, but he wasn’t ready as of last year.

I think the reality is that Galarraga didn’t fit the long term plans. He’s only going to get more expensive in his second and third seasons of being arb eligible. They have Turner, Crosby, and Oliver on the way up. He’d be waiting around for an injury, and they didn’t want him lingering, I guess.

If you survived 2003, you can get through this!

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 19, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

At this point it all depends who they get in the trade.

It would be nice if DD could get us a future SS or 3rd sacker in a trade.Or maybe a multi-player trade for a couple future starters.And by DD’s comments the Tigers don’t want to move anybody off the 40 man roster so we will have to add depth to the rotation from with in.

by swish330 on Jan 19, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I wrote this after that perfect game. And I still stand by these words.

I, as a Tigers fan, am proud to see you wear that Olde English D Armando. Your actions last night have forever made you a Tiger.

His actions on the field and off of it that day forever made him a Tiger in my eyes. He’s given us a lot of great things to watch in his time with Detroit.

by madpoopz on Jan 18, 2011 10:05 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Rec'd

Even if it was just for one night, he managed to defy his critics and detractors and earn a spot in Tigers immortality, thanks to his actions both on and off the field. His name will be mentioned in almost every book and film about the Tigers from now on. And on a more personal note, I will say that I especially enjoyed watching him pitch when he was believing in himself. When he trusted his stuff, there was just this sense of calmness and intelligence. It was quite a beautiful thing to watch. So beautiful that it made the pain of watching him struggle all worth it. I just wish his story could have had a happier ending and that it could have lasted a bit longer.

Tigers Amateur Analysis

Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia

by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 18, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Ironically

I’m reading this post and listening to the radio at work and " We are the champions " by Queen is playing.It just felt right.lol. Good luck Armando and GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!

Cory Smith

by cmonee on Jan 19, 2011 3:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I understand and appreciate

the sentimental value. for a season and a night he did what no one expected and left many memories, if the purpose of baseball is to win though at some point practicality has to out weigh sentimentality.

We replaced a guy that couldn’t beat out Bonderman or Willis for a starting spot last year that has honestly one had one good season. In exchange we get a guy that is a former all star, who’s worst season in the AL was as good as an average season for the guy he is replacing. At some point the sentimental people start to sound like Stephen…

by wilsonm24 on Jan 19, 2011 7:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Well

If Penny is taking Galaraga’s spot in the rotation, and Galaraga is being traded or released it then it is effectively an exchange. A shuffling of talent would imply they they are interchangeable talent wise, and that isn’t true in the least.

by wilsonm24 on Jan 19, 2011 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Armando . . . you look mahvelous!

My prediction:

This one (though a logical, conventionally “smart” move) could very easily come back to bite the Tigers in the hindquarters. Galarraga may well be the kind of pitcher who improves with age . . . who becomes more savvy and just “figures out” how to use the stuff he has to get hitters out.

If that happens (and it’s far from a lock) I only hope he doesn’t have the kind of long-term success that makes our front office a laughingstock. Remember, this is not a John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander kind of deal. Chances are, we get little or nothing for Galarraga.

Oh, who am I kidding? I hope Armando lights up the league and becomes a perennial #2 or 3 starter for whichever team he lands on! I hope he gets his chance again, and pitches a perf, too (just not against our MoTown Bengals)! And I hope he lands in the NL — I’m not entirely a masochist!

by Rally4TheTigers on Jan 18, 2011 11:08 PM EST reply actions  

Kurt should be being paid big time $$ for this analyses

This is great analysis as always.

But I tell you this….this move is bad ju-ju. Armando is going to come back to thwack us right in the face. Thwack thwack thwack. That sound is thwack.

by Flying J on Jan 18, 2011 11:16 PM EST reply actions  

thanks FJ

I accept cash or check, but not credit card at this time :)

by Kurt Mensching on Jan 19, 2011 6:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Bad ju-ju

Although Kurt, indeed, wrote an excellent piece packed with good analysis, it lacked this one key phrase that I am truly feeling in my gut about the deal, bad ju-ju. Well-played FJ.

Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.

by momotigers on Jan 19, 2011 8:00 AM EST up reply actions  

more evidence tigs are better

we the “experts” are concerned about a maybe number 5 but most likely a not at all starter for the tigers. multiple injurys early really is the only way this can come back to bite the tigs. it takes 2 months for a current starter to be demoted and by then the someone in the minors will be hot and ready for shot. again that will buy another month. hopefully the demotee has figured things out or a trade will be made. either way armando is less than expendable despite being a good guy. which should be more evidence the tigs are better

by mase311 on Jan 18, 2011 11:55 PM EST reply actions  

the tigers most lickely have a trade in mind with a team and yes he has value thier our alot of teams that need pitching that is cheap say maybee phi or mets you might get a young 2basemen or short shop from the minniorers for him

by kwfords on Jan 19, 2011 5:36 AM EST reply actions  

Philly...really?

How you think Philly needs pitching, especially a borderline starter, is a little baffling…

by wilsonm24 on Jan 19, 2011 7:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Philly just said they're not gonna trade Blanton

If Armando will be successful, he’s going to have to cut down on the gopher balls anyway. The jet(er) stream in RF in New York could be cruel to him, as could a park like Philly. I like his chances in the NL, but not in Philly. Now Petco, there’s a place for Armando!

If you survived 2003, you can get through this!

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 19, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't like this

The thing that stuck out to me the most about Kurt’s article was that Galaragga doesn’t consistently and dependably keep us in the game. I agree completely. From a #5 starter, you’re willing to have a 3 or 4 on the opponent’s scoreboard after the 6th inning. That’s what the back end of a rotation looks like for most teams…even playoff teams. Armando wasn’t a guy where you felt confident that it would only be 3 or 4 or that the 3 or 4 wouldn’t be there by, say, the 3rd inning. We’d like a more reliable 180 innings, even at the same ERA, from our #5…I get that and I understand removing him from the rotation.

What I don’t like is the lack of depth we now have. Galaragga was a good 6th SP. Sure, he’s the sort of guy that feels better as an insurance policy than as your #5, but now we don’t have that insurance policy and it’s at a time when we very much need insurance. Our #3 may very well need another trip to Toledo in 2011. Our #4 has only started once in the majors, and our #5 has been injury prone of late. I don’t feel good without a #6 this year. I would say our current #6 is Andy Oliver; and our organization will be doing Oliver and itself a disservice if he pitches again in the bigs before his secondary stuff is worthy.

All in all, I would say this move might very well cost the team 2 or more games in 2011, and I feel confident that the AL Central will be won by less than 2 games. To me, those 2 games are worth 2% of the teams budget.

Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.

by momotigers on Jan 19, 2011 8:15 AM EST reply actions  

Maybe Armando wasn't cool with being a long reliever?

And they just preferred the upside of Brad Penny if Galarraga wasn’t going to accept a move to the bullpen.

by ozymandius1024 on Jan 19, 2011 8:20 AM EST up reply actions  

As insurance policies go

There is every reason for the org to think that LJ Gagnier or Ryan Ketchner is just as viable an option as Armando. Plus, they just saw the Cubs get a nice return for Gorzelanny, and kind of figured out that they have their own Gorzelanny to trade.

by theRPS on Jan 19, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not so sure about either comment

Neither Gagnier not Ketchner are on the 40-man roster. Unless they’re throwing lights out in Toledo, the team would probably bring someone up the from the 40-man before either of these two. Otherwise, they’d have to trim a 40-man guy. Furbush, Oliver, and Below are all on the 40-man already (along with a few others) that would probably be called up first.

Also, the Cubs were in a much better position than the Tigers are now. Gorzo wasn’t DNF, so they weren’t on a ticking 10-day clock to trade him. I’m sure that other squads know that we’re not in a position to demand too much in trade. Also, Gorzo if a lefty and cheaper than Mando, so I would think he’s worth more in prospects. If we trade, I think it will either be low ceiling AAA/AAAA player or a very young player with a few tools that will wind up in GLC or Lakeland.

Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.

by momotigers on Jan 19, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

The costs are 2.1 mill versus 2.3 mill

I’m not sure a DFA trade versus a regular trade is a huge deal this late in the offseason. Assuming there are multiple teams looking for pitching, there should still be a bidding process happening. It was also pretty much a foregone conclusion that Gorzo would be traded. Gorzo is a little better and has a bit more room for improvement, but the Tigers should be able to get a package in the same ballpark.

The point about the 40-man is certainly well taken. I’m operating under the assumption that Guillen starts the year on the 60-day DL, opening up a spot. I’m also assuming that the org would give a guy with decent AAA numbers a short-term shot over a guy with worse numbers in AA/AAA but a better rep.

by theRPS on Jan 19, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

A couple points there...

- If AG is traded, his new club takes on the full salary. I can’t see the Tigers agreeing to eat any of it. They’ll eat $ 383K if they release him by March 15, and he has to clear waivers to be released (or outrighted).
- Gorzo has more value if only because he’ll make less money than Armando. Plus, he’s a lefty. It’s not like DD hasn’t had time to make a deal. I don’t expect much of a return.
- The Tigers needed a spot right now. The DL isn’t open for business yet. They could have found a player to remove from the roster to make room for Penny and still keep Galarraga, but I think they just didn’t like the whole idea of having him there in camp, competing for a starting job with no chance of getting it, knowing they don’t want him in the pen, out of options, etc. DD’s presser (on Mlive.com) tells you what he’s thinking.

If you survived 2003, you can get through this!

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 19, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Not sure about this move

Although DD is trying to be nice to AG by trying to find him a job. But has anyone ever thought about the other shoe that may drop? Supposedly we are trading AG for trade value now, and there is no room on the 40 man roster. Ok, so we do trade him, and, maybe get a good prospect or a utility player. Who else is going to come off the 40 man roster? I cant see us getting a player in a trade and not protecting him on the 40 man roster. As our team stands right now with the 6 starters someone is going to be out of a starting job this spring. A 6th starter even though may not be the best is somewhat of a little insurance in case something happens with the other 5 starters. If my memory serves me correct AG is out of options. I think I’d rather see AG pitch in the bullpen to see what he can do rather then B. Thomas. Even though AG may not like the bullpen (and we all know he wouldn’t) he’s being paid a lot of money to pitch a baseball. I thing the Tigs should’ve waited to see how the spring panned out. And, like I stated, who is coming off the 40 man roster?

by blueleo1 on Jan 19, 2011 9:42 AM EST reply actions  

I can easily see us trading for a non-40 guy

They’re called minor league prospects.

Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.

by momotigers on Jan 19, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Outstanding

Article, Kurt. Thanks for the thoughtful article and cogent presentation. Well done!

by TigerTom on Jan 19, 2011 10:29 AM EST reply actions  

One thing is noteworthy

I listened to the podcast of DD’s presser on Mlive.com, and read most of the takes from the media that were in attendance. Seems that, in the unlikely event that the Tigers can’t trade Armando and he clears waivers, they’d probably outright him to the minors and let him start, rather than release him and save 5/6 of his salary. If so, there goes the theory that this is a cost saving move. Okay, $ 2.3MM is a lot for a long reliever, but isn’t it even more for an AAA pitcher? He’d be depth for the rotation either way, but apparently, DD just doesn’t see him as a reliever at all.

If you survived 2003, you can get through this!

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 19, 2011 10:55 AM EST reply actions  

Mike Reilly and Armando

As a Tiger Fan, I have always given the leaders of the club the nod when a deal is done or a trade or release is given. What I would like to say about the Armando thing is this" He hasn’t been traded yet, he hasn’t been released yet. He still is a Tiger. With that said, the future for Armando is bright. This gentlmen of the game is a person of which alot of teams would like to have. Are they willing to trade for him. Probably not straight up, in a package deal absolutely. Armando you always were a class guy and you will remain a class guy, Good Luck to you.
Talking about Good Luck I just wanted to say Good Luck to Mike Reilly from Battle Creek, Michigan. Another class guy in baseball who announced his retirement from the game after 34 years as a major league umpire. May your retirement be as blessed as your career. Thank You.

by Adam or Eve on Jan 19, 2011 12:36 PM EST reply actions  

Superstitious Much?

All real Baseball Fans are superstitious. I agree with several of the comments above, we may rue the day we let him go.

by watsonstclair on Jan 19, 2011 4:50 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I'm a real fan

and I walk under ladders all the time.

by frisbeepilot on Jan 19, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd

For the use of “rue”.

Deputy Editor, Bless You Boys

Free Scott Sizemore!

by David Tokarz on Jan 19, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Why all the AG love?

29, not consistent, no high ceiling stuff. therefore no spot in the rotation and if a spot opens it goes to a prospect. the rotation is too good for AG. i hope DD gets a positional prospect and AG finds enough consistency to be a 4 for someone because he is a good guy.

by mase311 on Jan 19, 2011 6:28 PM EST reply actions  

because he's a potential 5 guy...

a potential long relief guy, and at the very least he’s depth at a lacking position on this team—starting pitching.

That’s why all the AG love, because for the price it’s hard to see why you wouldn’t want to keep that depth on the team.

by madpoopz on Jan 20, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

for the price?

he is higher paid than coke, scherzer and porcello. with far less skill or consistency. depth, i see the argument but disagree i would give a prospect a look. oliver definitely higher ceiling and will need another shot.

by mase311 on Jan 20, 2011 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

There you go, confusing morality and reality

Players don’t get paid according to “worth” until arbitration (and even then, I would argue that the difference between pre-arb and arbitration is negligable compared to arbitration vs. free agency.)

Whether or not a player SHOULD get paid more because they’re good and young as compared to mediocre and older is another issue all together.

However, with the current agreement, Armando is an arbitration player and the other three are not, so you’ll always see the arbitration player making more than the league minimum guys.

Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.

by momotigers on Jan 20, 2011 7:43 AM EST up reply actions  

worth? NO baseball player is "worth" what they get paid pre or post arb

but there is a cost and only 5 spots. his skill and cost doesnt add up. less quality stuff and or consistency when compared to the rest of the rotation not the rest of the league.

there is no room for him. i like him and hope he has a career with some other team but he is not good enough to be on the tigers right now and the tiqs dont need a placeholder, with some promising young pitchers coming up.

the kids will need an opportunity and with 6 people in a 5 man rotation it doesnt leave much of an opportunity.

by mase311 on Jan 20, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

baseball players are worth what they're paid

they provide an entertainment — baseball at its highest level anywhere in the world. This entertainment brings in millions upon millions of eyes, millions of people willing to dish out money for tickets, millions of money from TV stations bidding to put the show on television, millions of dollars from advertisers who want to be associated with it.

Why should the ballplayers be the one to take the hit while everyone else enjoys the benefits of their labor?

by Kurt Mensching on Jan 20, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

tough topic to discuss on a board

most other industries the “job” of business is to make a return for the shareholders not the workforce. players like avg. workers are not entitled to anything more than the cost to create the product/service no matter how much the product is being sold for. but every industry is different and its easier to equate player value based on business profit i just think its the wrong way to look at it.

I accept your ideals but definitely disagree that ball players are “worth” what they get paid on many levels. I do like the hope of the “american dream” that ballplayers live but find it unrealistic and other places that money could be better used.

by mase311 on Jan 20, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

sounds like you're the idealist here

A realist would admit no one is paying to watch 30 old rich guys play baseball.

by Kurt Mensching on Jan 20, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Players are worth what a team is willing to pay them in a free market

workers in any industry can take their talents to the highest bidders
In baseball, players can be held up to five years in the minor leagues, making 32K to 65 K before they’re on a 40 man roster,
then another three years with options,
then three years at the league minimum
then three years of arbitration where they get 40% to 80% of their fair market value
then finally they get to be free agents, where owners often collude to not pay them

If money could be better used elsewhere, how do you get it from the owners pockets to those other places? Owners aren’t losing money, and nobody forces fans to buy tickets or TV subscriptions. If one of the Tigers starting pitchers blows out an elbow and you have Chris Oxspring on the mound, he’ll make Galarraga look like he’s worth 2.3 MM.

If you survived 2003, you can get through this!

by Tigerdog1 on Jan 21, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Armando

I’d compare Galarraga to the former Red Wing Darren McCarty with the Claude Lemieux beatdowns. Galarraga’s imperfect game kinda earned him that unique appreciation from a sports fan and I think it’s showing through with initial reactions. I know it’s easily #2 among my lifetime Tigers moments and just one raised fist from being #1.

It is the right move, though. He has to learn to dominate more teams than the Cleveland Indians.

by Elfuego51 on Jan 19, 2011 8:23 PM EST reply actions  

Right move, based on saving...

Are you in favor of saving the 2.3M or the roster spot? The opportunity cost seems very low in this case, so I’d say it’s a bad move.

Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.

by momotigers on Jan 20, 2011 7:45 AM EST up reply actions  

At this point it's a bad move.

The only way it could be a good move is if DD gets us some good players in a trade.But it will still be a bad move for this years team.With the high cost of starting pitching (trades-Garza,Grienke,Marcum and FA’s Lee,Pavano) this could come back to bite the Tigers should they need anouther starter this year.They should of kept him at least thru spring training and seen how things shook out with the rotation.Plus one of the other teams could have an injury to a starter and then his trade value would go up.

by swish330 on Jan 20, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Prediction: Armando Will Get His Perfect Game

I predict that someday, perhaps 50 years in the future, hopefully less, Armando will be given his Perfect Game. Baseball will not always be ruled by obstinate, self-serving, rearward-looking people. It won’t have anything to do with tradition, it will have to do with doing the right thing

by watsonstclair on Jan 20, 2011 11:15 AM EST reply actions  

I would characterize it more as the "inevitable" move than the "right" or "wrong" move

The odds were always that his career would end in this sort of fashion (after all, that’s usually how it ends for all but the most elite pitchers), but damned if I didn’t want to delay it as long as possible. The fan in me would give almost anything to have him for just one more year. The analyst in me understands the move itself but still doesn’t like the timing because I will now forever be haunted by hypothetical arguments. I really wanted him to go into spring training not just for insurance, but with a fair chance at pitching himself into the rotation. If he did that, I would have been thrilled. If not, then at least I would have known there was nothing more that could be done and that there was no choice but to let him go. But now we’ll never know what would have happened. Yes, I know what likely would have happened, but you can’t say that with absolute certainty, and that uncertainty will bother me for a very long time.

Oh, and to those of you who are questioning the outpouring of sadness and/or love, I believe you can understand or even agree to a move and still feel bad about it. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Tigers Amateur Analysis

Doña of the fractured Venezuelan Mafia

by SabreRoseTiger on Jan 20, 2011 12:15 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

well stated

liking a player is what being a fan is all about but questioning/bashing DD for a move that makes sense analytically for the team is the confusing part. go tigs

by mase311 on Jan 20, 2011 4:32 PM EST reply actions  

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