Armando Galarraga trade talks focus on Diamondbacks?
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 23, 2011 10:47 AM EST
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintYesterday, Tigers president/general manager Dave Dombrowski said he thought it was likely Armando Galarraga would be traded. He added he might even have some news by the middle of the week. Arizona Republic reporter Nick Piecoro might have the news a bit earlier.
Piecoro wrote yesterday on Twitter that the teams have been discussing names, and one of the names is right-handed pitcher Kevin Eichhorn. (TigsTown's Mark Anderson ranked him 25th in the D-backs organization). Eichhorn was a 2008 third-round draft pick by the Diamondbacks who spent most of his season in rookie league ball last season and struggled in his handful of Class A appearances. His draft description said he had a low-90s fastball, average curve, plus command and "terrific" mound presence. He's shown an ability to strike batters out, but not much more yet. His father, Mark, is a former MLB pitcher who finished third in rookie of the year voting in 1986.
It's obviously too early to get indignant or excited or anything else. After all, names were just being exchanged, and that was only one of them. But that's the information we've got so far.
(Hat-tip HardBallTalk)
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I also read somewhere yesterday
the Pirates were implicated in a trade with Armando as well. Of course these are all just rumors.
Your 2k11 Detroit Tigers "AL Central Division Contenders" So get over it.
not implicated
implied, it was implied the Pirates could be involved in a trade for Mando…
Your 2k11 Detroit Tigers "AL Central Division Contenders" So get over it.
by Detroitchik on Jan 23, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah. If they were trading for Dontrelle Willis, they could be "implicated" :))
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Getting a young pitcher back
would be a great move. I would like a young position player that much more, however.
DD never comes out and talks about a trade till it's done.
He must of said that its almost done to hope some other team jumps in with a better offer.He usally dosen’t say anything,so we must not be getting much in return.I still think this will come back and bit the Tigers right in the rear.
Arizona has a couple of SS prospects blocked by Steven Drew
It may take more than AG to get one, but worth a look, IMO
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Need more than pitcher that struggled at high A and mid A for Galarraga
This a terrible trade if that is all we get. Galarraga, as JL mention, is one of the top #5 starters in the AL.
where did you read:
as JL mention, is one of the top #5 starters in the AL.
I don’t recall anyone ever stating that about Armando. If that were the case, I am fairly certain he would have never been DFA.
Your 2k11 Detroit Tigers "AL Central Division Contenders" So get over it.
he meant hes one of the top five pitchers in
the american league, thats from venezuela, thats right handed, over six feet tall, who pitched an almost perfect game and named armando.
by JAYRC on Jan 23, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I believe Barry is referring to
when Leyland said Galarraga was not the best number five in baseball, but damn far from being the worst. It was during his “he’s my number five… as of December 6” interview at the winter meetings.
I believe you're mistaken
but if you want to show us where you heard that from Leyland.
by Kurt Mensching on Jan 23, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Don't have time research but I thought heard back in the late Fall
My Point is Galarraga pitch better than his stats show and getting a level A prospect, even those only 20, is not a good trade off. There are some serious questions about the back end of the rotation,whether Coke can be an effective starter? Porcello, with K ratio, being so low, can he be a #3 starter? His WHIP and ERA is even higher than Galarraga. I think Bondo had worst stats. Can Penny, who has great stuff, produce 150 innings? Is Oliver or Turner ready to make the leap?
here you go
Also, Coke deserves a chance to start. He was a SP in the minors, in fact it was the Yankees that made him a reliever and had him reduce his repertoire of pitches. I hope he succeeds. He has a ton of energy and can be a good addition to the rotation. I don’t think you’ll find Penny on the list as he didn’t have enough games behind him to make the stats list, he spent time on the DL after hitting a home run.
Your 2k11 Detroit Tigers "AL Central Division Contenders" So get over it.
That's a list of "qualified" starters
i.e. 162 innings is needed to “qualify” for the ERA title.
Armando had just over 140 IP. I think the Rays are the only team with five starting pitchers qualified- off the top of my head. We’re looking for the best NO 5 starters.
I’m not sure about Coke “deserving” a chance to start, but I think it’s a wise move to see if a given pitcher can be a starter, rather than a set up guy out of the bullpen. Starters are far more valuable to an organization. Giving the job to Coke when he hasn’t been a starter above the AA level is a questionable move, but the Tigers feel they have good reason to believe that it will work. Doing that and trading away depth at the same time is even more questionable, IMO. I believe that I know why they’re doing this with Armando, just my guess as I mentioned on my blog.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Well
he didn’t say anything about a #5 starter, he said one of the top 5 pitchers in the AL. Clearly of which Armando is not. As much as I like Armando, I don’t think he ranks in the top 5 of #5 starters, or maybe even in the top 10. I do agree we should have kept him for depth.
I think thee organization is placing a lot of stock on what we have. From how it sounds, at some point we can count on seeing Oliver, Turner and Furbush this coming season. And I absolutely disagree that Coke does not deserve a chance to prove his worth in the rotation. Give him a chance and let him show us he doesn’t deserve to be there before writing him off.
Your 2k11 Detroit Tigers "AL Central Division Contenders" So get over it.
I read it differently
“Galarraga, as JL mention, is one of the top #5 starters in the AL.”
Few teams even have a No. 5 starter that lasts most or all of the season in the rotation. A bit of semantics comes into play here, as a # 2 could go on the DL for the season, and all of a sudden a # 4 becomes a # 5. Still, you’d be hard pressed to come up with five No. 5 starters that were better in 2010. Arguably, Galarraga was better than Bonderman. I’d rather have him than Bondo on my team. I’d rather have a healty Brad Penny than either one of them.
If Coke deserves anything, he deserves a chance to compete for a rotation spot, not a job on a platter. It seems that the Tigers are putting blinders on, refusing to recognize even the possibility that it may not work out. Better pray for Andy Oliver to take a big step forward with his command. Furbush isn’t nearly ready, and there’s very limited upside in Oxspring or Alburquerque, IMO.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
you're right
I did read that incorrectly. but, I did find 6 pitchers (who have a very similar amount of IP/ # of games as Armando) who all have better ERA’s. Since you brought IP up, I looked into it.
T. Hunter 3.73 128 IP
W. Davis 4.07 168IP (post season icl)
B. Chen 4.17 140IP
D. Fister 4.11 171IP (28 games)
V. Mazzaro 4.27 122 IP
K. Slowey 4.45 155 IP
Ironically, Brandon Morrow and Armando have the same ERA of 4.49. Morrow pitched just 1.2 innings more than Armando.
Your 2k11 Detroit Tigers "AL Central Division Contenders" So get over it.
If Galarraga was any good, teams would pay a lot to outbid the other teams.
Teams don’t believe in Galarraga because his K and BB rates stink. And being one of the top #5 starters in the AL is not exactly high praise, even if it were true (and I don’t think it is true). Hardly anyone in the league has a 5th starter that is actually a good pitcher.
Well,what I meant was?
I didn’t say he was top 5 starter in the A.L. I said, "He was one of the top #5 starter in A.L. Meaning he was probably 80th best starter in the A.L. His stats are better than your #3 guy Porcello, he had a lower WHIP than your 4# starter Coke and pitch more innings than your #5 guy Penny. Tigers cannot afford to experiment when the the division race this close. As of last year, he was probably ahead your prospects.
ERA is the worst you can use
I would though take Slowey and Hunter over Galarraga but the others either have a lower K ratio or a higher WHIP. Hunter is a 2008 or 2007 late first rounder so he doesn’t really count.
using fangraphs K/BB
Hunter was not used as a #1 starter, pitched a similar amount of innings, so I beg to differ. Also, realize I am not dogging Armando. We should have kept him. We need the depth.
Your 2k11 Detroit Tigers "AL Central Division Contenders" So get over it.
Were those guys all No. 5 starters?
I’d concede that the Rays have five or six guys all better than the Tigers No 5, whether it’s Galarraga or Coke. Even with Lee in Seattle, I think Fister was a no. 4. KC had Davies, or worse (if there is such a thing) bringing up the rear of their rotation.
If the point was that Armando would be fine as a No. 5 starter, I think most people would agree with that, but with Penny and Coke in the rotation, the Tigers clearly see him as a No. 6 and they didn’t want him lingering around, waiting for an accident to happen, breathing down Coke’s neck, and didn’t want him in the bullpen, either. There are a few major IF’s with the Tiger rotation, but it has a chance to be very, very good.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
you're the one who went by IP and said
Few teams even have a No. 5 starter that lasts most or all of the season in the rotation. A bit of semantics comes into play here, as a # 2 could go on the DL for the season, and all of a sudden a # 4 becomes a # 5.
so i went by the # of innings pitched comparable to Armando.
Your 2k11 Detroit Tigers "AL Central Division Contenders" So get over it.
I said that just to make the point that it's not so easy to isolate who the No. 5 starter is
It’s much easier to do with the benefit of hindsight, when you can have a look back at everyone’s stats, innings, ERA, etc.
Anyway, the original point, I think, was that Armando was one of the top # 5 starters in the league. I think he is. But now, he’s a No. 6.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Right you said it to make a point
its not easy to isolate the #5, I chose pitchers at random with as close amount of IP to Armando in the AL, to also make a point. He ranks about 7th tied with Morrow, more or less
Your 2k11 Detroit Tigers "AL Central Division Contenders" So get over it.
7th among what?
Players with a similar number of IP? Okay. I see what you’re saying. That could be a No. 3 or a No. 5. He’s 39th in ERA among all starters with over 140 IP. That works out to about a No. 3, on average, yet we know he’s not a No. 3 on any team that wants to call itself a contender.
I think the point was that the Tigers would be okay with Armando in the rotation. A fair point, but the Tigers felt they could upgrade with Penny, so they did. He probably deserved to make the team out of Lakeland last year, but was passed up for Willis and Bonderman- poor decision, IMO. Either way, he’ll be moving on now, and I hope we can get something of value, because I think he made a valuable contribution to the Tigers and would still have value in giving depth to the rotation.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
I think Mando stunk in Spring Training last year
If I remember correctly, he had about 2 or 3 iffy starts before being one of the early cuts.
Granderson was my Tiger, then Sizemore, then Willis. Since they're all gone, I'm taking Raburn and hoping the pattern holds.
Eichhorn looks promising
Good GB rates, strikeout rate is okay, walk rate is pretty good. If he could just keep the damn ball in the park…
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Free Scott Sizemore!
He might have just had BABIP or HR/FB% luck issues.
If it can happen to major leaguers, it can happen in the low minors, too. It’ll be interesting to see if he can improve on his unsightly ERA given a new year and a better defense behind him.
The FIP was pretty bad
But maybe he just needs a mechanical fix or some slight adjustment.
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Free Scott Sizemore!
by David Tokarz on Jan 24, 2011 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Right, the HR/FB problem would impact FIP.
1.4 HR/9 in a season is pretty high, and can blow up an ERA if the homers come at the wrong time. But his numbers don’t scream useless. He looks like the kind of pitcher I would expect to get in a trade for Galarraga, anyway.
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