Looking at who came back for Galarraga
by mattintoledo on Jan 24, 2011 10:20 PM EST
in Detroit Tigers News
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PrintWe all know Armando Galarraga was on the way out. It was just a matter of who would pony up with the best offer in return. Well, I suppose we don't really know that. There is a possibility the Tigers simultaneously tried to find him a good situation. With the destination they found, though, it seems like maybe a win-win for Galarraga and the Tigers.
The Diamondbacks were said to pursue Galarraga pretty aggressively. That would seem to suggest they were probably offering the best package and for Galarraga, it very well may mean a spot in the Diamondbacks' rotation. Let's be honest, though. Now that Galarraga is out of the organization and in a situation even his biggest fans have to concede is likely a better fit for him, most of us turn our attention to how this affect the Tiger organization.
First of all, the Tigers are off the hook for any portion of Galarraga's $2.3 million salary. So we don't have to concern ourselves with paying 1/6th or a 1/3rd of his salary after such and such a date. The Tigers also received two pitchers in return, Kevin Eichhorn and Ryan Robowski.
Let's not toil under any illusion that the Tigers have just infused their top ten prospect list with a couple new members. You know such thoughts are squashed when the GM who is acquiring you, in this case Dombrowski, refers to the players acquired as "fringe-type prospects" on the day of the deal.
Kevin Eichhorn was a third-round high school pick back in the 2008 draft, who received a $500,000 bonus. The right-hander has spent the majority of his young career in the Arizona Summer League, the equivalent of the GCL. Last season, he pitched 74.2 innings there, striking out 71, walking 15 and giving up 12 home runs.
Those certainly aren't bad results, but he was 20 years old and pitching in rookie ball. Of course, that's not the whole story. He only pitched 18.2 innings in his first two seasons as a pro. He was a fairly late sign in 2008 and then picked up just 16 innings in 2009 after losing most of the season to a Tommy John surgery. That's probably a big part of why he's fallen quite a ways as a prospect after showing up on Baseball America's Top Ten Diamondbacks Prospects list in 2009.
He's not without his perks, though. The Tigers seem to enjoy players from big league families and his father, Mark, was a big league reliever. His name might ring a bell for Tiger fans who hated the Blue Jays like I did back in the 80s. There are legacy draft picks, but there are no legacy big leaguers.
For that reason, we'll turn to Mark Anderson's abbreviated assessment of Eichhorn (via Twitter): "...fringy right-hander with good makeup, mound presence, and he projects for good command. [Fastball] mostly 87-89 [mph], touches 91". Back in 2009, he was also throwing a curve and a change, but I don't know whether those pitches survived or suffered as a result of his surgery.
The other pitcher is Ryan Robowski. Robowski was the Diamondbacks' 16th pick in the 2009 draft. He's a left-handed reliever out of Ohio Dominican who threw 54 innings at Hi A Visalia last season. He was roughed up to the tune of 69 hits, 5 homers, 16 walks and 51 strikeouts, but that league is a notoriously difficult environment for pitchers.
Mark Anderson's tweet about Robowski had him as "a sinker-slider type lefty reliever, with solid stuff. Fringy-[average] to [average fastball], slider flashes average, more a LOOGY type." (Yes, I realize I edited in for basic abbreviations but left LOOGY alone.) So even though Robowski is a long way from the majors for a soon-to-be 23-year-old and lacks Eichhorn's pedigree or prestigious draft status, his role as a lefty reliever will probably afford him opportunities to show what he can do.
Frankly, if the Tigers get a single big league inning out of one of these guys, they've scored a bit of a coup here. Consider back when the Tigers were trading FOR Galarraga after he had been bumped from the Rangers' 40-man roster. All they had to give up was low-level outfielder, Michael Hernandez, who was a non-drafted free agent and never even played for the Rangers. This kind of deal - working out a trade after designating a player for assignment - is seldom about getting big league talent in return. The Tigers should be happy they cleared their books of some financial obligations and found a good home for a classy player.
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This whole deal about Gallarraga stinks.
I don’t know what was going on behind the scenes,but this trade really sucks for the Tigers.I don’t understand why the big hurry to get rid of Gallarraga.The way they went about this its no wonder we didn’t get anything for him.Now if for some reason we have to trade for a starter,watch how much will have to give up.
by swish330 on Jan 24, 2011 10:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
but i highly doubt they will trade for a starter
they obviously are ok with the possibilities of oliver/turner/furbush/etc if there is an injury. also could always try bondo/millwood/duchscher(?) if anything happens early enough. i just don’t understand the anger from the baseball side of things for a 5th starter. i get the sentimental side of the story for some, but geez at the end of the day a pretty run of the mill 5.
by atlantatiger on Jan 24, 2011 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
he wasnt even a 5th he was a 6th
i like the kid but come on, talent wins games not nice guys
Agree, Division is too tight to be experimenting with prospects
Tigers cannot afford lose 5 to 7 games while they are experimenting with Coke or if an injury pop up. Soxes are good this years and Twins they lose half their roster and still win 90 games plus. This should be a tight race.
he was inconsistent @ best
I think they shoulda got that 3rd basemen, he can’t field, but he can hit, he could be a DH, Reynolds I think. @ least he could maybe fill in when Inge gets hurt again.
reynolds traded to baltimore
and again- armando was a 5/6 starter. not getting major league talent back for a 5/6 that everyone knows has to be traded or put on waivers. i am in the camp that belives tigers were fortunate to get 2 of anything at this point.
by atlantatiger on Jan 24, 2011 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
idk that
o well, not like he’s all that great of a fielder, but they still need some more power. I don’t feel like martinez is the answer for that & Magz just doesn’t have the power he used, he hit well last year, while he was healthy anyways. It seems D&D always content 2 see what happens with what we got & if you look @ ChiW & the Twins, they haven’t, they’ve got more power in their lineups. To me @ present were lookin @ another 3rd place finish.
We're set for DH, no matter what kind of disaster strikes the lineup
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
So to sum up
We traded nobody, got a back of the rotation starter who gave us a few years of work, and flipped him for two prospects.
Look, I liked Armando before his perfect game. He has great stuff when he can put it all together, but he couldn’t do it in Detroit. I’ve spent too many nights watching him get scared and give up a bunch of runs.
Time in Texas
It’s also probably worth noting that when Texas released Galarraga from the 40-man, some were upset because he had better stuff than some people who the Rangers kept. The general feeling, if I remember correctly, was that the Rangers were just frustrated with his lack of progress in lining up his talent and potential.
The Tigers allowed him some time to make some progress, but that’s a song the Tigers learned over the last couple years.
by mattintoledo on Jan 25, 2011 8:14 AM EST up reply actions
that's definitely a good point
I was thinking about that yesterday. he should have realized most of his potential by now.
Yeah, he's 29
So unless he’s Jamie Moyer, there probably isn’t a whole lot of room for improvement.
(Prove me wrong, Armando. Please.)
by frisbeepilot on Jan 25, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Loosing Mando
sucks from a personal standpoint, but as far as baseball goes it gets a meh. If someone wants to make the case that Mando would have been a better option than Oliver when one of the top 5 goes down, be my guest, but at this point I don’t see it. If two of the top five go down…we weren’t getting into the playoffs anyway with Mando and Oliver in the rotation anyway.
Oliver is not ready
as he showed us last year in five starts. When he is ready, he’ll blow past Armando’s best dreams
But right now, I see nobody in the Tiger organization that would do a better job should the need arise for a starting pitcher. Galarraga was a 0.5 WAR last year. His ERA out performed his other stats, but four wins is just bad fortune. Problem there is that “replacement level” for the Tigers right now is not very good. Get Oliver ready, and he’s a No. 3- 4 starter.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Bad fortune partly, but think def behind him suffered b/c of slow pace/nibbleing & ingnoring the skipper
What kind of player has faults exposed start after start by manager in postgame, and yet stubbornly refuses to change? Was Armando coachable? If he wasn’t, what was the impact for coaching on other players?
Glad they have 2.3 million ready in case one of kids don’t step up. Also happy they found AG a home. Bet Gibson won’t put up with the crap.
"Always 1984"
by Hack Johnson on Jan 25, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe that 2.3MM was spent on Penny
But otherwise, they didn’t spend a dime on the rotation, and that’s where they needed most improvement. DD is betting heavily on two major leaps forward from Ricky and Max, good health from Penny, and a big transition from Coke. That’s a lot of variables to wager on all happening at the same time without a plan B.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
No leap forward necessary from Max
Max was great last year, one of the best 2’s in the AL. Maybe what you’re getting at is that Max will likely be unable to repeat his second half for the whole season. True, but he’s not likely to be godawful either early in the season either. His peripherals support his outstanding year. The defense hasn’t become THAT much worse overall.
Count me as one among many who expects Scherzer to be able to repeat his already-outstanding performance from last year.
Max needs to be much closer to his second half of 2010
and do it for a full season. He needs to be consistent, and claim the No. 2 spot. I’m much more optimistic about him than I am about any of the others. Maybe each of those things is even likely, but all of them together? A plan B would be nice- hope Oliver steps up quickly.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
Much closer to a 2.47 ERA?
Are you kidding me? That’s a ridiculous expectation to have, because there were only two guys in the AL last year with ERAs that were lower that that. (Felix Hernandez and Clay Buchholz)
All he needs to do is replicate the whole of his season from last year. It’s about the whole year, not just the good half of it. I don’t think he’ll be nearly as good as his second half was, but there’s no good reason that he should struggle like he did in the first half.
A 3.50 ERA out of Max would be outstanding if he could do it again. Anything better than that is gravy.
by ozymandius1024 on Jan 25, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
I don't expect 2.47
but he has to be more consistent than he was over the course of a full season. 3.50 is a reasonable expectation, but we’ll need more than a dozen wins from our No. 2 guy if we want to win a division. Max CAN be dominant, and he has a better chance of doing what we need from him than Porcello, Coke, or Penny, for various reasons, IMO
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
We're rolling the dice, and saved 2.3 million
I can appreciate how some dont like the smell of this deal and how it all went down. Set a conract in the a.m., and release in the p.m. Wel, guess what ladies & gentlemen, as much we get attached/unattached to our baseball players it is a business. We gave Mondo not one but two years as a starter to show some consistency somewhere. He was a roller coaster and a lot of times it was all down hill and once in a whle up hill. Too bad it was only uphill 4 times last year. What do the tigers have to lose in this deal besides 2.3 mil? Im sure we can pull a rookie out of one of our camps and he could get 4 wins in about 25 starts, but at a lot cheaper price. We do have options.
I suspect . . .
. . . that if we kept Galarraga on the roster as a long reliever/parachute in case of starter failure, he’d suck at it, and we either wouldn’t dare use him when we needed him, or if we did, it woudl be a disaster.
This is not about keeping Gallarraga or trading him.
This is about the way the Tigers did this from a team stand point.Gallarraga is an asset of the Tigers,its like a poker game you don’t show everyone your hand before you bet.Even if they didn’t want him thats fine, you bring him to spring training to show case him for a trade.Maybe he has a good spring and his value goes up, or maybe some team has an injury than you get the most value out of this trade.So instead of getting a good prospect in return,we get low A players that have little chance of helping the team.Or they could of packaged him with some other prospects for something we might need.This deal is like selling your car,everyday you go out it starts right up and runs good but you want a better car so instead of trading it in for what it’s worth, you give it to the niebor for a pair of hedge trimmers.The way the Tigers went about this is DUMB.
Awful analogy
to simply compare Mando to a poker chip, or a used car does him a disservice as a human being and disservice to this classy organization.
For as many “ifs” and “maybes” you present in keeping Mando through spring training, there are opposites, what if it is Mando that gets hurt, what if one of the young guys that the D-Backs have competing for the rotation has a great spring and they aren’t interested anymore. You can’t just assume that only good things happen if you wait to trade Armando.
First of all i have respect for Gallarraga,and like him.
That has noting to due with this.We didn’t get anything for him in this trade.We would of had nothing to lose by keeping him thru spring training and see what happened.We could cut him lose then if there were no takers.Maybe you forget when the Tigers got Cabrera and wanted to trade Inge,but found no takers and he is still on the team.
I didn't imply that you don't like him
I would however argue that likening another person to a poker chip does display a lack of respect.
I didn't say Galarraga was a poker chip.
The players are people the same as anybody else.But baseball is a business,that why the players sign contracts for lots of money in most cases.The Tigers are a baseball business,they buy and sell players every year.Trading or releasing a player is part of that business,it has nothing to do with disrespecting a player, it part of the business of baseball.That being said ,the Tigers as a business, should be looking out for there best interest when it comes to trading a player, and get the best deal they can.
...dude,
“Gallarraga is an asset of the Tigers,its like a poker game”
The tigers neither buy, nor sell, players, that would be illegal.
People like to say “baseball is a business” but seriously what does that even mean? Is it maybe good for future business to put Mando in the best possible position going into next season? do other players see that and say hey those guys run a classy organization, or are you always better off squeezing every inch and every dollar out of every contract? should you always win now, or should you think long-term now and again? There are lot of ways to look at these things and nothing is a cut-and-dry as you like to make it sound.
When they sign a FA that is buying a player,It happens every year and is legal.
And when you trade or release a player that is seliing a player and that is legal.And they use to sell players to other clubs but i don’t know if that is still done or not.They are buying and selling the players services thats what contracts are,so they are buying and selling the players on the roster,that would be called baseball.
Yes and No
Players contract with teams for their services…there is however a vast body of law that distinguishes how that is very different very different that “buying and selling players,” I fear this is getting far too off topic so I will leave it at that.
Maybe you could.
Make a fan post an enlighten us on the legal aspects of baseball and the legal ramafactions as you see it for each team and the players.And also how the players union fits into all of this.
Google "the reserve clause" and Curt Flood.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
by Tigerdog1 on Jan 25, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes Tigerdog1 you are correct if not for Curt Flood there would be no free agents.
If not for Curt Flood free agent players would not be able to sell there services to the highest bidder.What most people don’t know about the Curt Flood ruling is that he lost the ruling with the Supreme Court.And even so that not only changed baseball but every other sport.
Who else was involved in that trade?
http://www.thebaseballpage.com/players/allendi01.php
Read what Lolich had to say about him. He & Flood were a lot alike.
by TigersFan1957 on Jan 25, 2011 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
The other case we al read about in laww school
involves Napoleon Lajoie. A ballplayer cant’ be compelled to play, if he doesn’t want to, even if he’s under contract.. No court-ordered specific performance of personal services contracts
They would have had 2.3 million dollars to lose
Especially, like Nick was saying earlier, if he just sat there waiting to start or sucked in a long relief role. It’d be a bad allocation of resources, and obviously there wasn’t a ton out there if this was the best package that DD felt he had to chose from.
If you care so much about this issue, at least spell Armando’s last name right for once.
by ozymandius1024 on Jan 25, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
They could still release him and not pay the 2.3 mill.
I beleve they still could release him and only pay him a portion of the contract.Spell check Galarraga.
Yes, but then they would just be releasing him
And they would get nothing in return.
by ozymandius1024 on Jan 25, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
If you think the two guys we got are something ,you are mistaken.
We traded a starting Mlb player for two low A players who will not make it past triple A.That is not a good trade even for Galarraga’s value.
Wow
you are taking this way to seriously. AG is what we call a scrub. DD being the smart man that he is know he has talented arms in Oliver/Furbush/Turner that can fill in if needed. Which would perform just as well as AG but would aide in thier development. Count on at least 2 of those mentioned to get at least 3 starts by the end of the year.
by Benzy Ferrari on Jan 25, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
I know what you are saying,and don,t disagree with you.
All i was saying to start with is we could of got more for this trade if it was done differently.
probably not.
we gave up nothing to get him, and got two players in return after he filled a roll for us for several years. Mathmatically we are up one arm. when you’re dealing with a player such as Mando whose career will amount to middling at best statistically, being up mathematcally is the best you can do in terms of trades.
If you’re saying we could’ve gotten better talent in return, thats arguable. But with how this team is set up, how the market for Armando looked, and the contract we got Armando to sign at…I’d say that we really couldn’t have done much better with the situation as it stood.
really what you are doing is over estimating Armando's value...
and possibly underestimating two prospects.
We’ve seen where Armando will peak. We haven’t seen where these two will peak. Prospects can do one of three things: End up where you think they will, fail miserably, or rise above expectations. Really as I see it we have a pretty good chance that we end up with a player that is at least at Armando’s current ability but also cheaper.
DD makes it sound like the timing was all about getting the best return
but I think that’s a non starter, given what he wound up getting. It was about not having AG in camp waiting for an accident to happen, the media yakking about a contest that didn’t exist, Armando being frustrated, Coke not being able to make a clean break KNOWING that he has a job in the rotation, etc.
Could be that teams have more openings now, or could be that things happen in the spring that create openings and a need for a SP. Either way, we’ve got a No. 5 on a major league deal for 2.3MM with an option to release at 380K, while there are a hand full of Bondo’s out there to sign for an incentive laden, no risk minor league contract. It was all about whether they wanted AG in Lakeland just in case, or not. Answer is they didn’t.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
With what AG presented...
the Tigers really didn’t have anything to lose at all. Trade him and gain some prospects. Keep him and gain some pretty good depth for a decent price. Or if all else fails, just flat out release for next to nothing.
But like you said, keeping him presented some risk. Be it slight risk, but risk none the less. So really option one and three were the only foreseeable ones.
Two risks...
They let him go and there’s an opening in the rotation before Oliver is ready. In that case, IMO, we don’t have an adequate replacement so they start the trial and error thing.
They keep him (or Bonderman) and when there’s an opening, they’re sorta committed to them even if they’re “blocking” Oliver or a young prospect.
But I don’t see a big advantage to trading him now vs trading or releasing him later. Not with the minimal return. I think DD just wanted it settled.
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
So who were they gonna drop?
They only have so many spots on the 40 man roster. Who do you propose that is older or has less potential then Mando? They couldn’t wait till Spring training to clear the room they had to do so now.
All of the players on the 40 man currently are older and have achieved their potential (or are performing at a higher level of their potential then Mando), or are younger and have more potential (and thus more time to ultimately reach that potential), or serve a more important roll than a long reliever/maybe-possibly-worse case scenario starter.
So they trade him for a LOOGY (hasn’t half the board been screaming for a LOOGY with Coke in the rotation?) and a projected back of the rotation starter (wait!!! isn’t that what Mando is?!?!), neither of who are on the 40 man roster, and save themselves probably 2 Mil in the process. Not to shabby honestly…
i like the reasoning
and it doesnt seem like you looked into a crystal ball to make your argument.
AMEN!!!!!
Right on the ball Swish. I want to find a “good neighbor.”
by StephenGrosberg on Jan 26, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
the tigers did a nice thing for aplayer they did not want on thier team any more they gave him achanse to stick with anew team as starting pitcher . as for want they got back they got a pitcher who was rank high in the minnior s who before he got huret was one of top starting pitchers in the minnioers and a left hander realf pitcher witch is hard to find who some day might put his stufftoghear pitch for the big club will these player pich for the big club most lickely not but if your the tigers want do you have lose by adding a coulpe of pitcher to your team who might just cath fire and have some value for team
Amando is/was a classy guy
Not too many of us are saying we didnt like Amando. He was probably one of the classiest guys on the team. He understands this is business. If he stays with AZ he gets a pretty nice raise for pitching poorly, couldnt be counted on, and didnt know what Amando was going to show up for the last TWO years. As mentioned the Tigs did him a favor, they set his salary, and traded him to a team that wanted him and put him in postion to succeed on his own merits. Its up to him to make the team. As someone mentioned on here, the tigs couldn’t didnt want to protect him on the 40 man roster. If he’s claimed on waivers as a rule 5 a teams must claim him and pay him the entire season or offer him back to us. Ugggh, No thank you. To those who think this was a classless move, I think totally the opposite. We got something in retrun as compared to nothing in return and AG has the ability to make 2.3 mil and we have 2.3 come off the books. He was not a very good picture the last two years, we gave him a shot, sometimes a change of scenery does a player good. I wish Ag all the best.
Ooops
Ok, before I get nailed, pitcher instead of picture, I type faster then my brain
soooomeettimmmezs. eh?
The thread is hard on Misspellings
How about a freeware spell check application/grammer app Kurk? I’d use it, and not b/c my brain runs that fast. I’m just horrible at spelling, I ask my teens for help. Just think, Kurk, you could load the dictionary with player names, like Galeragga (SP) ?
"Always 1984"
by Hack Johnson on Jan 25, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
BTW kurk, how about an English/Spanish trans application
Since we have the Mafia. Bless You Boys could be a household name Blog in Caracus.
"Always 1984"
by Hack Johnson on Jan 25, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
we don't really have the capacity for that
it’d help if people would just pay attention and try to spell things right.
I Still Do
I still call him Gibby & most everyone knows who I am talking about. A spell check would be great though, my spelling is very bad.
by TigersFan1957 on Jan 26, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
And George Kell would call Kevin Saucier "so-sha"
And he’d also call Elias Sosa “so-sha”
Two classy gentlemen bringing us the Tigers on a saturday afternoon. Ladies- Retirees day!
If you survived 2003, you can get through this!
More thoughts
I think the mistake opponents to this move are making is removing Galarraga’s salary from the move. AG is going to be making $2.3M this year, when there are still some free agents who are good bets to duplicate his performance (at least) and can be had for less than that. Most teams are also likely to have up-and-comers who would be able to fill in as fifth starters for league minimum.
Since Galarraga’s value on the market probably isn’t much – if at all – more than $2.3M, it is unreasonable to expect a team to give up much to get him.
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