Tigers could eat Brandon Inge's contract?
Tom Gage thinks with all the money being freed up this offseason, the Tigers may eat Inge's remaining salary. Thoughts?
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7 months ago
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I think BInge will be with the team.
I don’t think we’ll eat the salary, and I don’t think any team will take his contract. He could serve as a defensive replacement/platooner (I remember him having some power off lefties – but I have no splits to back that up) if we can afford to save him the roster spot.
Inge will be back for his swan song....
in his current role as a backup. The Brandbino got a wake up call when he was outrighted. Someone finally stood up to him and called him out for his lack of production at the plate. I thought he was very useful as a defensive replacement, starting against LHP’s.
Odds are that the new 3B will bat right, unless DD decides to stand pat with some combination of Kelly, Inge, and/ or Betemit. That throws Brandon’s platoon role into question, but he is still a useful player, taken in small doses. I still like Chase Headley.
BTW- good way to perk up a discussion in a slow week for Tiger news.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I started reading your comment on the News article...
and knew that it could have only come from one of the erudite minds that posts here. Not that all the other comments were so mlive, but way to bring some thoughtfulness to the mass media.
Why not work something out with good 'ol Bingle?
Say, instead of cutting him, why not try and re-work the contract and defer some of the money to try and keep him within the organization? Make him a coach in A ball and see how he does. Just keep him the hell away from the developing hitters.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
I've never seen the Tigers do anything of the sort
DD signed the contract, the owner loves the guy, the manager can’t bench him, the media loves him, he has his cult-ish fan base….. just let it play out.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
But at what expense?
if illitch is indeed going to increase payroll to fill the gaps, then third was arguably their biggest issue. Throwing money and not fixing the issue at third would be like putting $4000 rims on a $500 car. No way this team can become better for next year without addressing a .200 hitting corner infielder.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
Is it crazy to think they could try him out at 2B instead of 3B? I think he would be a decent platoon with Ramon and that would free up 3B for a trade/signing. Otherwise, it is difficult to justifiy using a roster space on a non-utility infielder who hits around .200 without power.
by SpartanBoiler on Oct 21, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought about that too
and then concluded it may a total waste of a roster slot. Let’s remember that his range at 3rd was VASTLY limited to his prior years. He would be eaten alive at second base.
Point being, that the only reason he was even a defensive upgrade this year was because he was coming into the game for Wilson Betemit, which really isn’t that much credit. Inge was an average defender at third; he did very well in the playoffs, true, but I would call his glove anything more than average anymore. Pair that with his BA and he’s a negative WAR player. Adam Everett is a better player than he is now and ol Opie was cast off to sea as a better player
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
define
“VASTLY limited” Inge was still pretty clearly an above average (if only slightly) defender this season, to call his range vastly limited seems a bit excessive.
To the earlier point we are probably too far down the line to try Inge at a new position, he should have been a SS coming up, but that is a different discussion.
I don't feel the need to find a place for Inge at all
I think he’s just fine sitting on the bench, being available as a defensive replacement and getting an occasional start. Whether 3B is handled by Betemit, Wright, Aramis Ramirez, Headley, or someone else, Inge won’t hurt the team unless he is forced into the lineup too often and he isn’t producing. Coaching, second base, catching, all just getting too creative trying to find a place for him, IMO. See September, 2011 role. That’s it and it’s fine.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
This
I do not feel keeping him on the roster is a good idea, but if they keep him on the 25 man, then that is definately te best case scenario.
My fear is that by acknowledging the fact he will be on the roster next year, tue front brass won’t be active in suit of a 3rd bagger, and you already said; “DD signed the contract, the owner loves the guy, the manager can’t bench him, the media loves him, he has his cult-ish fan base….. just let it play out.”
I think having him on the roster at all is a bad idea. I’m not trying to be mr. Argument or the knee-jerk fan on this thread, but if he breaks camp I don’t like the scenarios I see playing out in my head.
I like the guy, I do; but I hate the ballplayer when his spot in the lineup and field could make this team better than a team that was 2 wins away from a WS. If the were sub .500, fine. But this team came to close to be chancing Inge at 3rd for next year
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
To define 'vastly';
Here is a chronological timeline of Bingle’s UZR from ’06 on at 3rd;
06-19
07-11.2
08-1.8(small sample size; he caught most of the year)
09-6.6
10-3.1
11-1.8
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
there are a few problems here
Inge didn’t play a full season and UZR is a counting statistic. Inge’s UZR150 this year is 3.3 compared to a UZR150 of 3.5 for 2010
UZR is highly volatile the general rule it that you should take a 3 year average, not compare the data year-to-year
if a 1.8 UZR (3.3UZR150) is “vastly limited” (ignoring the ridiculousness of that word combination) I shudder hear how you would describe an average fielder.
It's more about the trend
Sure, there are decreasing sample sizes for Inge’s innings at 3B, and for good reason. They’ve found more productive players, his knees have been a problem, he’s getting older and losing some of his agility… but the trend is still pretty clear. Even at a 3.3 UZR/ 150, he’s not what he used to be.
The reason that small samples are unreliable with fielding metrics such as UZR, is that there is an RZR component that measures the percentage of balls hit into a player’s defined “zone”. Those balls could be hit at the player, or on the far edge of the “zone”, and in a small sample, this could either favor or disfavor a fielder. However, when you have multiple small samples, the chances of pure good luck or bad luck will even out. In consecutive seasons where Inge has seen reduced playing time, his defensive prowess has also declined, small sample or not. The percentage of balls hit into his zone that are turned into outs is, in fact, reduced. Screaming “small sample” is exactly the same as attributing the drop in RZR to “luck”.
Besides, if you want to have any measure of Inge’s defense at all, you can only have “small samples” because that’s all the time that he has played the position. If you throw those out, what metrics do you suggest be used in their place to measure the effectiveness of Inge’s defense? Fielding percentage? Hardly. You take the amount of work that you have, large or small, and go with that.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Agree
As the saying goes, “The Trend is your Friend.”
by watsonstclair on Oct 22, 2011 6:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t believe RZR (as in Revised Zone Rating) is actually used in UZR.
In any even I am not sure what bearing it has on the conversation between Sigg and I. If you look above Sigg believes Inge is an average at best fielder with extremely limited range. All the trend in UZR shows us is that Inge is less above average than he used to be. Is that enough reason to put him in the lineup everyday, absolutely not, but he does have value in that respect.
3.3 uzr/150 isn't that great for a third basemen
It’s not bad, it’s right there on the high side of average. But I wasn’t necessarily saying his range will be a hamstring at third; I was pointing out his downsloping range as a factor as to why you can’t platoon him for second base.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
but vs what?
vs Kelly? vs Betemit? vs Aramis? I don’t see a Beltre on the market this season.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
That seems to be the issue.
Pardon my rosterbation(and in all seriousness) finding a shortstop and moving peralta to third may be the best opion. But maybe not If it irks him like it did in Cleveland. Third base, and second for that matter as well, is desperatly thin this FA season so it may be up to DD and get creative. I’m not sure what the answer is to this situation is. I do know that a .200 hitting third basemen just won’t cut it.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
Good points, however
I saw Peralta play 3B in Cleveland and he was horrible. He was great at SS this year, and I don’t think moving him away from SS is a great idea.
But what do the Tigers do in the offseason? Target a SS? I’m not a fan of Reyes because his .337 AVG is unsustainable and he is a speed guy who usually hurts him hamstring. I believe Rollins (and Aramis Ramirez) will get more money than he is worth because of the thin pool.
Detroit Tigers: 2011 AL Central Champs
I want no part of Jhonny at 3B
He wasn’t good there in Cleveland, and it seems that 3B would be uniquely suited to expose his greatest weakness, which is a lack of range particularly going to his right. Those balls that now get past him for base hits become doubles down the line.
We have to have faith in DD to make a move that will improve the team in the infield, and signing a free agent isn’t the most likely method of filling the holes.
Reyes can sustain a high average, and more importantly a high OBP, but the Tigers won’t shell out the kind of money that is needed for him, IMO.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I wonder about this percieved 3B liability
I keep hearing how he’d be unhappy there and how he was so miserable there in Cleveland.
If he can’t get the glove to the right, hug the line a bit and let the new SS cover the extra area to his right.
Peralta can’t be that bad at 3B and he was probably grouchy in Cleveland because, well, it’s Cleveland.
I think it’s getting blown out of proportion. Maybe I’m wrong.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I don't believe it is possible
to “re-work” a signed contract. This isn’t the NFL. MLB contracts are guaranteed, and the MLBPA would have a fit-and-a-half if one of it’s members was giving money back to the owners.
by Big Z in Orlando on Oct 21, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not without extending it, and we don't want that
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Big Z is on the money
The MLBPA would blow a gasket. Could never happen.
I'm owner/editor of The Wayne Fontes Experience a deputy editor at Bless You Boys, host the Bless You Boys Podcast and co-host The Knee Jerks podcast.
Well, somebody has to play 3B
For all the talk about Santiago and Betemit and platoons, Inge is the only one of these three that’s actually under contract next season. The other two are free agents and are probably only slightly more likely to sign in Detroit than elsewhere. I wouldn’t be surprised to see either or both walk.
I’m sure that DD will explore options to improve the team at 3B, either via free agency or trade. However, if nothing comes to fruition, we head into camp next year with Inge, or perhaps an Inge/Kelly platoon.
If we sign or trade for a more full-time player, the question of Inge becomes tied to the composition of our bench. If we’ve got Danny Worth and Don Kelly on the team, there’s not much need for Inge – even if he learns to play 2B or wherever else.
That being said, I think the team will keep him around unless his attitude becomes a problem. He’s been a Tiger for a long time and the organization values him somehow.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
The organization values him as a person
and has put value in him as a player (5.5M for last year and next year and club option for 6M in 2013 a 500k buyout in 2013.
Since MLB contracts are guaranteed, he’d get paid that money anyway if he didn’t get signed elsewhere. And if he did get picked up elsewhere, I think the Tigers would pay the difference.
Ramirez Will Play 3rd Next Year.
Amaris is going to be the huge signing we make and Brandon will more then likely be released.
by BennieBladesFan on Oct 21, 2011 1:03 PM EDT reply actions
This. He’s really the only worthwhile 3B addition on the open market. I’m convinced he’ll be a Tiger in 2012.
You're an optimist, I'll give you that
Lots of teams needing a 3B. I’m not sure why we’d have a leg up on everyone else. Now, if Ramirez were Venezuelan instead of Dominican, maybe we’d have some leverage!
I’m sure we’ll kick the tires. If it sounds like he wants 4+ years, the team will probably have a tough decision about whether or not to play that game. In all likelihoods, somebody will offer him 4+ years and I don’t think it would be the Tigers. I could be wrong, but I think our top offer will be for 3 years.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I like Ramirez for the tigers 3B
but I hope that they would not sign anyone for more than 2 years with Castellanos having a TBA of 2014.
I hear you, and I'm torn
On one side of the coin, you don’t want to block a prospect that can help your team inexpensively. If Castellanos were at AA or AAA, I’d probably be much more against signing more than a one-year 3B.
On the other side, Casetllanos is a LOOOONG way from Detroit. If he had hit .350 with power last season, he’s a kid that you might see cracking the bigs at 21. He showed lots of promise and did everything you’d hope from a 19-year old, but still K’ed a lot, didn’t hit for a ton of power, and just hung around .300 all year. I think he’ll be good, but the time won’t hurt.
Beyond that, there’s lots of things that can go wrong and slow development over that time.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
he definitely won't take a 2 year deal
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Anything more than two
and his contract could be worse than Inge’s. I imagine someone will drive up his price this offseason and give him a contract that looks like VMarts; he wont be worth it IMO.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
Ramirez and VMart are very similar players
Same age, similar stats. Ramirez plays in the field, VMart doesnt. If you think VMart’s contract will be worth it over the next three years, you should think the same of Ramirez.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I wouldn't be so sure about that
I’d absolutely love to add Ramirez to our lineup, but I’m not as confident as you are. I don’t want to get into a bidding way over him and there might be other teams out there willing to pay him more than we are.
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
i remember a couple of lively discussions here last year...
that resigning peralta was a terrible idea and then that signing maggs was a must. it’s baseball and spring training will start to tell the real story about inge’s future.
by Charlie Mcgeehan on Oct 21, 2011 1:25 PM EDT reply actions
Back then, optimism was usually frowned upon
Why, I don’t know for sure. Well maybe because so many hearts had been broken too many times. So expectations were usually, more of the same, or much worse. Careers going south like Dontrelle Willis’ seemed like the norm. Trades gone bad, like the Jurrjens or Washburn deals, left a a lot bitterness. Improvement just wasn’t part of the imagination.
That was until this summer. Where some of our trades finally helped the team. Where our team finally broke past that 2nd half slide BS. The BS that we couldn’t ever win the Central Division with Leyland as our manager. I think more people than ever are feeling confident about the team in general these days.
Trades weren't the problem, IMO
On the whole, DD’s trades have worked out very well. Sure, there are a couple of duds in the bunch, but what GM doesn’t have a few of those? It’s not like the Tigers have lost a bunch of players that went on to become stars. Jurjjens was the big loss. Maybe Infante. Miller, Maybin, Badenhop, Whelan, Trahern, Gorkys, Luke French…. not a big loss.
What has not worked well for DD have been those multi year extensions, that all blew up on him, almost without exception. Hopefully that trend is also changing with Verlander, Cabrera, Jhonny starting a trend, and hopefully he gets back to a more balanced approach with an occasional free agent mixed in when he signs multi year deals. The early returns on Victor, Valverde, and Benoit are very promising. I would expect a trade or two, maybe a free agent or two, and a promotion or two from within.
I like where this ship is headed. I wouldn’t rave about our infield, our outfield, our bullpen, or the farm in general, but there is enough of a core to field a good rotation, a good lineup, a good back end of the pen, and management has made the right adjustments and gotten enough out of the players to give cause for optimism.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I say keep him
pay him a little more to perfrom he was good in the playoffs
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
Does this say, "pay him a little more?"
I keep refreshing and it keeps saying that.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
It does
and me brain hurt much bad…
#headexplodes
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
i mean pay him a little more to have him play
ct for a little cheaper. Sorry for the confusion
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
I don't think Brandon Inge is very good...
Or for that fact, a very good Major league 3B. Fortunately for him, he happens to have a third baseman’s glove in a time when there aren’t more than maybe 10-15 actual quality 3B available for 30 teams.
You are going to pay him next season no matter what. I say get him a utility left handed platoon caddy, who you can play LHP/RHP and defensive switches like JL loves to do and spend that “extra” money on a solid 2-hole hitter/2B.
They will release him in a second if they need that roster spot at the start of April
I have to see who they pick up this off season before I figure how likely that is.
Non-tender Delmon Young
its time....
as a life long Tiger fan and a “used to be”,Inge fan, it is time to just let him go…release him, buy him out, what-ever, but he has to go…If you want to upgrade or even be taken seriously as a contender you can’t keep a .200 hitter just because he’s a great guy…..as a business owner I’ve had to fire or let go, people I considered friends..but they were a detriment to my productivity and profitability…so…they had to go….
xxMURPHxx
As long as Inge is okay with a diminished role as a late-inning replacement
And he seems to be, and he doesn’t make a problem in the clubhouse chemistry, and there is no indication of that, the team probably sees no reason to not let him play out the final year. If he became a problem and it was a clear case of getting a toxic element off the team, then sure. But he seems okay with the small role that his destroyed knees limit him to, and he doesn’t have something insane like four years left on his contract, so letting his contract run out isn’t the worst thing.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
exactly
I see the Tigers handling this the same way the Red Wings handled Maltby, Draper, & Osgood. If you can go you’re on the team, but in a reduced role. If you can’t crack the top 25 they’ll take care of him by giving him a coaching spot somewhere in the organization, or a front office PR job.
"I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast food" - Ron Swanson
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by rock n rye on Oct 22, 2011 10:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just like that.
He’s near the end, so it isn’t as though he will hamstring the organization for years. That would be an entirely different issue. His contract is a comparatively minor drain, and won’t hurt the team from upgrading in other areas, and he can be eased out gracefully as a Tiger without hurting the team and saving face for him.
There is no need to dump a 6-year long contract or a player who insists that he can still start, frequently, publicly, and with much whining and backstabbing of his teammates. He’s nearly done, so let him ride off into the sunset before his knees disintegrate to the point he can’t play with his kids any more. A PR position would be nice – maybe something involving community relations. He and his wife have always taken that very seriously and I think he would be good at it, if the Tigers chose to keep him around the team in that capacity.
Random nonsense at @Baroque97
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)
Plus, any 3B that the Tigers are likely to be able to find probably won't be a defensive whiz
Figgins and Polanco may be the only ones that had a higher UZR/ 150 than Inge this season and might possibly be available. Otherwise, Inge is still as good or better defensively than whomever we might have on the field at a given moment.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I'd stay away from Chone Figgins.
He’s contracted M’s disease. The Mariners just seem to get snake bitten with free agent contracts. Of course that’s just an anecdote but Figgens fell of a cliff somewhere near Safeco.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
maybe not Figgins
but Nick Punto is a free agent, i think there is a picture of him next to “defensive whiz” in the dictionary, he’s in there for “scrappy” too!!
Inge
How about instead of eating 5M the Tigers sign an everyday 3rd baseman with a decent glove and a .275- 280 avg. and telling Inge he is the backup catcher for 2012 and he plays when the team is facing a left hander. This way they get something out of him and it gives Avilla a break and Vmart doesn’t have to catch.
People keep bringing this up and I wonder if it is just willful ignorance on their part or sports talk radio syndrome.
Inge’s knees will not support catching; he’s done as a viable catching candidate.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Ideas in the press are inkling at something
It doesn’t come down to “should the team release Inge?” This member of the press is giving advance warning the the very real possibility exists that Inge WILL be released.
I have this feeling, that “the big bat” Mr I was speaking of is David Wright. A deal is already in place, will be announced not too soon after the WS, Inge has nowhere to go and Inge’s release is being acknowledged in a not so subtle way.
Just getting the fans ready, as it were.
Myself, I think the team starting in 2012 has a 4 to 5 year window. The Tigers are one big bat, one solid starter, and one solid reliever away from not only winning the Central 4 out of the next 5 years … but also being WS favorites more’n once or twice.
Trading for Wright is the first move. That frees up some young talent to trade for the rest. Yup, Castellanos and Turner. Is it the right thing to do? I don’t know, we’ll find out.
But what if Castellanos brought Wright, and Turner brought Shields? Those are All-Star capable players who are the same age as Miguel and Verlander. Sign a top notch FA reliever, and the lineup/rotation/bullpen is one of, if not the best in baseball.
Miguel and Verlander are fully in their prime. Do you wait around for a Castellanos or a Turner, who will see their best years when Cabrera and Verlander are in their decline?
IMO, the press talking about Inge being released isn’t conjecture. It’s getting many Tigers fans prepared.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
Wright
Thanks, but no thanks, at least not at the price the Mets would ask for. He Ks at a rate just below Inge and his defense isn’t too great.
If DD could get Wright for Castellanos, I would be for it, but I don’t think Shields for Turner is a good deal for the Tigers. While Shields is very good, I believe Turner could be a key piece of the rotation in 2-3 years and be a #1-2 for years to come.
Detroit Tigers: 2011 AL Central Champs
I think Turner has an outstanding chance to be very good as well
But does his future help this team the way it is constructed now?
That was one of my main points, although I didn’t state it well. JV and MC are 28. Two potential HOFers. Should the team put as many impact players in their prime around them as they can, 2016 be damned? Hanging on to Castellanos and Turner makes the most sense in 2016. But does it make the most sense now, considering the talent on hand?
Should we settle for 85-90 win teams for 7-10 years and many an early exit in the playoffs hoping for a one year bolt of lightning? Or, should we put together a dynamic 3-5 year run with possibly the best roster in baseball?
Leaving Castellanos and Turner for trade discussion gives us the latter. I honestly am not sure which way to go.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
Not a bad problem, considering how the team looked in the 2nd half in 2010.
We have 4 solid starters, a great back of the bullpen, and only need to fill offensive holes at 2B and SS/3B. I hope with this solid core, DD could get Illitch his big bat without giving up Turner, and then the Tigers can focus on rebuilding the farm system in the next few years to keep a run going for years to come.
Detroit Tigers: 2011 AL Central Champs
Given the age of our owner
And being unsure of how his heirs will treat the franchise? I’m not so sure DD and the Tigers shouldn’t just go for it now. That means a 3-5 year run with a roster that’s in the discussion as the “best in baseball.”
I’m not saying they should sign any 35 year old players on their last legs. But given the budget constraints as they are now, pulling a trade for a Wright and a Shields while signing the best reliever on the market would give the team one helluva roster. And, players like Wright and Shields are in the range age-wise of JV and MC.
Boesch, Avila, Wright, Cabrera, Victor, Young, Peralta, Santiago/Raburn, AJax.
Verlander/Fister/Shields/Scherzer/Porcello
Valverde/Benoit/FAgent/Coke/AlAl/Perry/Schlereth
In order to get that done we’re probably losing both Turner and Castellanos, plus some Smyly/Below type prospects. But that is an impressive lineup, starting rotation, and bullpen. And they’re young enough to keep a run alive for a while.
If Mr I was 50-ish years old and could be counted on to spend, I’d seriously consider hanging on to Castellanos and Turner. But their primes don’t sync up with the talent on hand, and we have no idea what is going to happen with the team 5 years from now. We have 2 potential HOFers. Could very well be time to strike while the iron is hot.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
by Singledigit on Oct 22, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's my take
Wright for Castellanos and say, Oliver and a couple other pieces, yeah I might be able to get behind that.
Turner for Shields? Not a chance. Unless you’re trading Turner for Matt Moore, I wouldn’t part with him. His age and upside are too good to just throw away.
I like the direction we're headed as an organizaiton
I think we now have the core of superstars in place to win it all if we can compliment them correctly. I also see a bright future that mixes youth with veterans in a competitive way at a manageable payroll.
Both Castellanos and Turner are important parts of that. I’d rather stay the course right now and have a nice long run of playoff appearances than a 3 year window of opportunity. As long as we’re making the playoffs pretty consistently, it will come together soon with a WS Championship.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
exactly this
trading Turner and Castellanos would not be a great idea right now
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
om nom nom
that would be delicious
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
by tigers22 on Oct 22, 2011 9:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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