Sensible Acquisition Thread
by David Tokarz on Oct 26, 2011 12:43 PM EDT
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PrintSince I hate ridiculous free agent propositions or trades, I decided that it would make sense to be proactive and start a place where people could compete for the most reasonable free agent trade or acquisition. As such, I unveil the "Sensible Acquisition Thread", where we come up with reasonable solutions to Tigers problems. The rules for this thread are as follows:
1) You cannot argue that the Tigers should acquire any player that has been to more than one All-Star game, unless that player is injured or post-prime. I know Mr. Illich has signaled he would be okay with a large acquisition, but we have forty fanposts discussing those.
2) You can only spend $20 million dollars on a free agent. Not $20 million per year. $20 million on the entire contract.
3) Trades cannot include either Jacob Turner or Nick Castellanos. Trades can only include one of the following players: Drew Smyly, Andy Oliver, Robert Brantly, Casey Crosby.
4) If you suggest a trade, you must provide justification as to why the team trading a player wants to get rid of him. (Example: the Marlins want to trade Logan Morrison because they hate him). Trades must also be reasonable (which means we probably aren't going to grab Morrison- make that a separate post if you like that idea).
5) The following players are untouchable: Miguel Cabrera, Justin Verlander, Doug Fister, Alex Avila, Jhonny Peralta. If you suggest trading a major piece (Austin Jackson, Brennan Boesch, Max Scherzer, Rick Porcello) you also have to fill that gap.
6) Every position is fair game, but you can't move a player we already have (so no moving Peralta from SS).
Below the jump are my choices for acquisitions I think might make sense.
1) Austin Jackson and Drew Smyly to San Diego for Chase Headley
Petco Park is huge, and while I'm sure Cameron Maybin can do a heck of a job there, the Padres add the best defensive center fielder in baseball. They also add a pretty darn good pitching prospect who will look great in Petco (but probably wouldn't look so great in Detroit. In return, Detroit gets a good player in Chase Headley, who is coming close to arbitration. San Diego adds talent and saves money, while Detroit gets a player who can lock down 3B in the long-term.
2) Detroit signs Coco Crisp to a 2 year, 14 million dollar deal.
So we fill the void left in center by acquiring a speedy centerfielder who plays good defense. Crisp is older, but since we got younger in the infield, this is a fair swap.
3) Detroit signs Kelly Johnson to a 2 year, 16 million dollar deal.
Johnson is a potentially great bat at second base who provides solid defense. He's also coming off a lousy season. This makes a ton of sense as a buy-low middle infielder (much like Jhonny Peralta was last year).
These are just a few moves, and there are certainly others that the Tigers can make to fill holes. See what you can come up with!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Bless You Boys writing staff.
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I like Headley, quite a bit
- He fills a position of need at third base in the infield, with adequate defense
- He’s a switch hitter
- He had the best OBP of any third baseman in the majors, and would fit nicely batting near the top of the batting order.
I don’t think it would take Austin Jackson to get him, nor do I think DD would make that trade.
I think there is still a lot of hype value left with AJax (upside, tools, all that), that he has greater value than Headley. I am not sure how motivated the Pods would be to deal Headley, but they do have other internal options coming up for third base, and they are among the cheapest of the cheap when it comes to paying players.
I don’t want Crisp or Kelly Johnson at this point in their careers.
There are a ton of other trade possibilities. Endless. Start with the list of 2013 free agent starting pitchers, then go to infielders, then go to outfielders. Andre Ethier comes to mind.
I don’t think the needs of the team can be filled with the budget that you propose, and even Headley will cost that much by the time his “club controlled” seasons are over.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
It's 20 million per free agent
I’m trying to avoid people making bonkers free agent acquisitions.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 26, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
In that case, I'll take Phillips for $ 12 mil after a sign n trade
There’s a good chance that the Reds trade him if they can’t come to terms on an extension. They’d want a good prospect or two, but not top tier because he’s got one season left and a hefty salary.
I like Oswalt on a one year deal, but he’d probably want at least two. Same with Buehrle, and I think both of those are within reason for what they bring and what DD typically spends. I might settle for a Chen or Freddy Garcia after seeing what the other two want first. I don’t think Kuroda would leave LA if he plays in MLB at all, but two years for 20 mil might get him if he does.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
If I may ask
What’s with the infatuation with Brandon Phillips for some Tigers fans?
All I see when I look at his stats are a guy who’s an inefficient base stealer, has decent power, plays good defense, and has a .322 career OBP. Oh, and he makes 12 million dollars next season……and he’d only be with the club for one season before he garners a hefty contract in free agency.
So is the goal to have two Austin Jacksons at the top of the lineup to not get on base for Miguel or what?
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 26, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Brandon Phillips, among NL second basemen
First in batting avg
Second in OBP
Second in OPS
Second in stolen bases
18 HR, 82 RBI
First in Runs Created
Second in wOBA
Defensively, first in UZR/ 150
Excellent contact hitter, 83.5% contact.
Only 12.3% K rate.
He’s nothing like AJax at all.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
by Tigerdog1 on Oct 26, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Sign Dave Duncan to a 3-year, $6 million deal
by Rob Rogacki on Oct 26, 2011 1:06 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
YES
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 26, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd for cleverness
plus, would absolutely help the Tigers immeasurably.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
If LaRussa doesn't come back
duncan to Detroit would make a ton of sense. Friends with JL, class organization hrs accustomed too, they’d pay him, and Duncan would go rock hard at having that talent in a rotation.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
Please...
please…….make this happen!
(Un)Official President of the Team Jacob Turner Fan Club
Yet Another Movie Blog
by DetroitTigersGeek on Oct 26, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
good idea
I’m so tired of hearing about Reyes, CJ Wilson, etc.
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
A reasonable approach would be
You get one mid range contract that you can add. Say you need a SP, 3B and 2B. You can probably sign A Ram for three years, but then you can’t get Phillips or Oswalt as well. I think that might be the approach that DD actually takes. If he does, I think it could happen PDQ like it did with Victor and Benoit. We’re not going to pay any more players $ 20 mil, and probably not $ 15 mil, either. Once the big deal is done, he falls back on Betemit, Santiago, a modest upgrade from Penny, or someone in a trade, and see how the season plays out, keeping some cash reserves for a bigger move later. The contrast between the 2012 class of SP’s and the 2013 class is quite striking to me. Next year’s crop will thin out as clubs extend their players, pick up options, etc, but there’s a lot more there to look at and DD could get an early jump on them by swinging a trade.
As far as what falls within the budget of 20 mil, I’d first look for some of those guys with expiring contracts after 2012, because all that you can get on a $ 20 mil free agent contract is probably a veteran on the downside of his career that you’re trying to squeeze another season or two out of. It’s also not DD’s preferred method of player acquisition. On my list of infield free agents, I have Santiago and Betemit as 5 and 6. Take out Reyes and Rollins because we’re not going to spend the money. Consider A Ram and Phillips under the right terms, and maybe a Kelly Johnson, Edwin Encarnacion, or Scutaro (although I’d bet his option is picked up). Even this thin free agent crop will thin out in the next few days as options are picked up. There’s not a lot there.
Maicer Izturis for 2B or 3B makes some sense if the price is reasonable. Jeff Keppinger and Howie Kendrick are two more that have one year left before free agency. Oh man would I love to have Howie! He’d be costly in prospects, though.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
I like Kelly johnson. He'd just slide right in without hiccup.
But Jackson, smyly/coke, and plus 1 or two for brandon Phillips is also something I’d see DD doing.
If that happens, then signing a CF, I’d possibly take a shot on Sizmore, assuming his option is declined. Crisp and ankiel could also be acquired reasonably.
Another scenario I could see happening is making a trade for Chone Figgins and sliding him into 2b with some platooning at 3b, thus helping take Inge out of the lineup another day or two out of the week and giving worth or hopefully a re-signed Santiago some extra playing time. He would cost almost nothing to acquire, other than a bloated salary, and he seems like a high-reward kinda guy coming off his worst year ever.
I can see DD making a hefty trade, but I doubt it. I don’t think here is a real need to shake things up with the core he’s built, but rather add just a few minor pieces to help complete the puzzle.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
I want no part of Rick Ankiel
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 26, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Dang It!
I second you(Kelly Johnson), I ust wish I could have said that. On my blog I’m gonna do a series about a few free agents who make nense and are cheap(er) and he is gonna be my first subject
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
Figgins...
I was just looking up Figgins myself, he is owed 17 million the next 2 years with a vesting option of 9 million for year 2014 if he has 600 AB’s in 2013.
If you can get Seattle to eat the majority of his salary for 2012 and 2013, it might be worth the risk.
His BABIP was .215 last year, so he isn’t as bad as he appeared.
I see two problems though, he seems to be developing worse pitch selection AND I think he has performed better as a 3B compared to a 2B in the past. I think they need a 2B and #2 hitter more than anything.
Just say no to Ankiel
I get to see him daily here in DC, and the Tigers should say no. He can’t hit, can’t run well anymore, and his defense is down. He does strike out though, so there’s that.
I like the idea of trading for Phillips, but I think it might not take as much as you suggest, and if they would trade that much, it would only be if they can lock BP up for at least 3-4 years.
by CoreyMichaelDC on Oct 27, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
We could put him back on the mound
… and he’d be an improvement over Brad Thomas, at least. Then use him as a pinch hitter when he’s not pitching.
I want no part of Edwin Encarnacion
You think Betemit can’t field? HA!
2B
Rick Perry and Drew Smyly to Pittsburgh for Neil Walker. The Pirates might want to take a chance on two young pitchers.
Ryan Perry, or the governor of Texas?
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 26, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Either one.
You’ll never hear from either in Pittsburgh again.
by HawkeyeEdward on Oct 26, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I really like Neil Walker, but I don’t know that those two would do it, I know I wouldn’t give Walker up for that if I was the Pirates, but I am not very high on Smyly. I would definitely see if the Pirates were ready to cut bait on Alvarez as a cheap “change of scenery” candidate
Even in the Sensible Acquisition Thead
people manage to sneak the bad trades in.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 26, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Kurt needs to change the subheading
It should read “Nobody fucking wants Ryan Perry.”
Smyly's pretty valauble?
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 26, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be
his numbers seemed to indicate he was pitching beyond his skill level, but he may be a hidden gem in the minors.
I know you can basically take minor leagues numbers and set them on fire for most prospect evaluation, but his last year is kind of hard to ignore. Finesse lefties are hard to get a read on, but if he repeats what he did last year after moving up a league, then you would have to say he’s way beyond anything we anticipated. I think smyly is a real wild card in the farm; last year could have been a fluke, or he could be a reincarnation of Greg Maddux. Time will tell, that is unless they off him to a different city.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
Finesse lefty
Smyly throws low 90’s. Porcello throws low 90’s and nobody calls him a “finesse righty”. Half the population here thinks he’s Jesus Christ (or he will be in two years…)
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I'm not overvaluing him
or saying he’s gods gift; my first line was
his numbers seemed to indicate he was pitching beyond his skill level
It’s just hard to ignore his season, especially when it was well beyond what we were told he could do. In fact, I even said
but if he repeats what he did last year after moving up a league, then you would have to say he’s way beyond anything we anticipated.. He may be more, he may be less. It’s too early to tell; but he did show an awful lot of promise and you can’t blame people for hoping we strike gold in a depleted minor league system
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
I thought your comment was mostly accurate
I was just saying that I don’t think Smyly needs to be labeled a finesse lefty because he doesn’t throw 95. Scouting reports have him at 92. That’s the same as Porcello throws most of the time. Somehow Porcello gets a pass on being called a finesse guy and Smyly doesn’t. I keep reading about how Porcello is going to somehow be great with his stuff in two years; I also keep reading that Smyly doesn’t have much of a chance at being better than a #4 or 5…yet they have similar quality pitches.
I’m a Smyly fan as well. He’s one of those guys that probably won’t WOW any scouts, but he’s had success everywhere he’s been, so you eventually have to give him some credit.
Personally, I think Porcello and Smyly both project as #3 guys in the long term. Porcello has a leg up because he’s actually proved something in the majors and we know he’s at least a #4 or 5 already, but there’s no reason to write off Smyly until he’s had his shot.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Right-handed pitchers hardly ever get the finesse or crafty label attached to them
It’s almost always solely a term for left-handers. I don’t understand it. I claim bias against my fellow lefties!
You're right!
There’s really not such a thing as a finesse righty.
Actually, I think it’s because not many right-handers make it up to the bigs with <95 in their arm. After a while, their speed may decrease. Then, announcers start calling them “crafty” veterans.
Lefties can sometimes crack the bigs if they’re in the low 90’s or below. Since they’re young, it seems silly to call them crafty veterans, so we pull out the finesse card.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Smyly's a midrotation guy
I’d peg his upside as a #4, but he’s a pretty safe bet to get there.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Transactions
1. Decline Velverde’s option.
2. Sign Erik Bedard 2yr 10mil
3. Trade Ryan Perry and Drew Smyly to Padres for 26yr old Cory Luebke. Padres farm system is loaded with Starters (thanks Texas) so Luebke is expendable.
4. Trade Porcello to Yankees for Brett Garnder. Yankees are in desperate need for pitching.
5. Sign Mike Gonzalez 2 yr 5.5mil
6. Trade Daniel Schelereth, Delmon Young and Adam Wilk to Angels for 3B Alberto Callaspo.
7. Lock Bradon Inge in Comerica Park basement and flush the key.
#3 Fields
I meant to say Daniel Field and Ryan Perry for Luebke. Not Smyly.
WHAT?
All those guys for a average at best third baseman(Callaspo) and giving up bright prospects for a starter that might or might not pan out(Luebke). Trade Ricky P for an outfielder who doesn’t have nearly as much value. WHose are closer, Valverde is a bargain at his option and why Mike Gonzalez, he’s not good at all. You’re gonna pay Bedard 5 million to either be hurt of very inconsistnet. Sorry, I don’t mean to rag but I just don’t get this at all.
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
I don’t think any of those prospects are particularly bright, and Gardner provides and has provided much more value than Porcello.
People are giving up on Porcello way to easy
Not saying it s horrible trade but Porcello could be way better, and I think he will be
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
Dude, I'd do that trade in a heartbeat.
Porcello for Gardiner? HELL TO THE YES.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 26, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
that’s a stupid trade. Porcello has much more upside and Gardner is not going to hit like he did in the ALDS for a full year. Gardner has already reached his max potential, to give up on Rick for a speedy .265ish hitter would be stupid when we have AJAX to work on.
He slashed .259/.345/.369
He’s also a phenomenal defender and an excellent base-stealer who was worth 5.1 WAR to Porcello’s 2.7 WAR. How do you not do that trade, especially when we have a ton of flyball pitchers (Verlander, Scherzer and Fister, to some extent)?
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Because you have the belief
That this is finally going to be the time that Porcello puts it all together. The potential, man. The potential! Never mind that he’s probably reached his potential.
Or that even if his potential is #2 starter he's still worth about as much as Gardner
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Young = upside
Also, he was a first round pick. Young first round picks never fail to live up to their draft billings…
Oh, now you messed up.
Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Kyle sleeth, Kenny baugh, Scott Moore, Scott Munson. Now I’m sure you don’t recognize many of those names, but those are all young, first round picks drafted by the tigers within tue last ten years, and none of them have amounted to jack shit.
In fact, I bet many only recognize two of those names and you only recognize them because they were part of the greates baseball trade-heist in the modern era. So actually, more often than not, first rounders never live up to their potential.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
Edit: Eric Munson
not Scott Munson. My apologies.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
Yeah, I'M the one that messed up...
Thought the sarcasm was pretty obvious there. Maybe not.
You'll find I will do that
Use the sarcasm font next time, damnit!
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
None
I’m just saying that granting them that point still makes it a good trade.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Who's giving up on him?
Pointing out that Brett Gardner is a much better player doesn’t mean I’m giving up on Porcello.
by Nick Galea on Oct 26, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why is everybody giving up on Rick?!
HE’S 22!!!!! HE ALREADY HAS OVER 30 WINS!!! WHY AM I TYPING LIKE THIS?!
Anyway, I think you have to have patience with Rick…in 2 years, we’re going to have a nice, veteran, unflappable sinker-baller on our hands that routinely puts up very good ERAs and 6-7 K/9. And he’ll still be only 24. Gardner is a nice, scrappy player, and JL would love him, and if you could trade a prospect like Oliver for him then fine, but we could get more for Rick.
by CoreyMichaelDC on Oct 27, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
He'll also cost 10M+ per year if you're on the money
The thing about promoting a young guy like Porcello is that it’s a double-edged sword. They get expensive quickly.
I don’t mind spending money on quality players, but there is a budget. Once Porcello starts getting expensive, it forces us to make difficult decisions.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
If that's the case, then flip him later...
If Rick were to move up into the 10M per year range, and the Tigers didn’t want to pay it, they can always trade him later. Assuming he continues to grow and mature, even if he prices himself out of the Tigers’ budget, they should be able to trade him for something worth more than Gardner, or collect some draft picks.
by CoreyMichaelDC on Oct 27, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
He loses most of his trade value at that point.
once he starts making decent money, he would lose most of his appeal.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
All caps don't make points.
There is no such thing as a pitching prospect. Get that through your head. Porcello is pretty much done developing. He may tweak a few things here or there and gain more consistency but he almost assuredly won’t become a lights out #1.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
Not a horrible comp results-wise
Though they’re not that similar.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 30, 2011 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
6-14/5.61 ERA /1.64 WHIP/5.8 K9/181 hits in 156 IP
Greg Maddux’s 21 year old season
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
That was Maddux's first full season
Porcello is 22, and just had his third season in the majors.
Maddux in his third full season: 19- 12, 2.95 ERA at age 23.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
I'm not comparing Maddux to Porcello.
I’m replying to the concept “There’s no such thing as a pitching prospect.” Pitchers and players develop, especially when they are 22 years old. It doesn’t matter if they’ve spent their three season in MLB, or in MiLB. IMO, that’s where people get tripped up concerning Porcello. The fact that he’s spent 3 developing seasons in MLB instead of MiLB. It doesn’t make any difference, in terms of development.
If Porcello was 26 right now, I’d agree to the idea that “he is what he is.” But at 22, no matter where he’s pitched in the last 3 years, he will has more than ample opportunity to develop.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
I agree with that
but he also will never be an ACE, like some had forecast when he was drafted.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
You might not be comparing Maddux to Porcello
But every time somebody says Greg Maddux and then talks about another pitcher, I twitch. Be more careful in the future…
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 30, 2011 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at the opposite side
Porcello is almost done physically developing. Fastballs generally do not increase in velocity and folks are banking on him improving at the MLB level.
Improvement at the top level of anything is difficult. The 2012 season is pretty critical to see what the Tigers have in Porcello. There have been improvements, sure, but can you honestly say he’s looked consistent enough to think he’ll be able to maintain enough good performances to justify holding onto him when there is a possibility to upgrade at other, similarly critical areas?
Relying on that possibility should also bring into the field acknowledging the opposing view, that trading Porcello could be the right thing to do, has merit.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
How many baseball players stop developing at 22?
I don’t suggest that Rick positively has #1 potential. I am suggesting that because he has pitched for 3 years in the majors, it is assumed that he is done developing.
If Rick would have spent the ’09 season in Erie, and then the ’10 season in Toledo, and ’11 was his rookie year? And his numbers were exactly as they are for ’11? People would be excited about Ricks potential.
But because Rick spent the ’09 and ’10 seasons in MLB, the fact that most 22 year olds still have a lot of developing to do is kinda lost.
I can’t begin to guess where Rick will end up. But I’d guess Rick still has more than a little development potential left in him.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
by Singledigit on Oct 30, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
God, I hate TINSTAPP
It’s lazy analysis.
Porcello probably is what he is: a good #4 who should stick around for 10+ years. But he might have a bit more in him, given his pedigree and his mind.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 30, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
God I hate thinking it is analysis.
It isn’t. Porcello possible has a bit of improvement left in him but, conversely, he could also start to decline. Thing is, there is no way to predict just where he will end up.
Don’t fool yourself into thinking the numbers will tell the whole story or that gut instinct will win the day either. Considering what Porcello may get, in terms of a pay raise, using his youth and possibility to gain more pieces could be the best bet.
However, with teams moving towards hoarding prospects, perhaps keeping him is the best bet,
Also: using that acronym is even worse. God, I hate rampant acronym usage – it’s poor form.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
I really hate acronyms.
Really, really hate them. Death to acronyms.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
I hate everything
Just ask anyone. They’ll vouch for me.
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 30, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
shit, you're right
the rest of you need to be more like him.
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 31, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Or like the Sharks :)
"What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?" the Waco Kid
by 77bestrookieclassever on Nov 1, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure Donner doesn't care about the Sharks
If anything, Donner will not be pleased with the fact that the Sharks interfere with his dinner and/or play time.
he was on the bed with me last night watching them
to be fair, he’d probably watch any hockey. fast action on the screen = happy dog viewer.
by Kurt Mensching on Nov 1, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Just consistency, and another pitch that can make lefties miss
and we’d see improvement in all the peripherals. Some infield defense wouldn’t hurt him, either.
"King of Minutiae"
Porcello is only 22
Gardner is 28, and as a speed guy, he’s going to see a precipitous decline in the coming years. Rick is still learning to pitch at the big league level and I would wait to pass judgement on the overall ceiling of his career for another 2 or 3 years.
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
Not to mention...
I don’t want a guy who looks like a giant tool on my team. The Detroit Tigers are a d-bag free zone.
Ok
So you dont’ want to trade bright prospects (Perry? seriously) for a Luebke who throws left handed (something Detroit is in dire need of) and had 10k/9 last season with a k/bb of 3.5. I think Luebke has already panned out. Callaspo is an average hitter but he is an excellent defender, something Inge hasn’t been in since he lost his knees. Bedard’s deal would have to be incentive laden, but another left hander in a large ballpark. You have to play to your ballparks strengths. I realize that Porcello has more value than Gardner currently. I don’t trust he will ever develop into a decent pitcher. His k rate is just to low and he’s been a big leaguer for three years and only shows flashes.
I hope #'s 1 through 6 on this are a joke...
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
I don;t think I would trade even one person in that deal for Callaspo
Let alone all three and this includes Delmon Young!
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
Yea, no kidding
how about Omir Santos for Callaspo..? That sounds about right
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
Reply...
1) Pick up the option. Sure, it’s pricey, but it’ll be around the average price tag for someone of his “caliber”
2) I’m all for signing Bedard, but only to an incentive laden contract. He needs to prove that he can stay healthy and actually pitch efficiently. Probably a Brad Penny-type contract.
3) Fields has little value… And I feel like Luebke would cost more than that…
4) I’m not ready to give up on Ricky P just yet. That being said, I don’t think the Yankees would do this trade.
5) I’d be okay with this. He’d be a nice set-up guy.
6) Callaspo? Hmmmmm… Sure it’s kinda luke-warm talent for luke-warm talent, but still, I’d hang onto Young, and maybe Schlereth. Maybe trade Schlereth’s beard and Wilk for Callaspo.
7) yes. Unfortunately… that may have some legal ramifications… And management loves the guy.
(Un)Official President of the Team Jacob Turner Fan Club
Yet Another Movie Blog
by DetroitTigersGeek on Oct 26, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Vlad Guerrero?
Worth taking a chance on to replace Magglio if he can’t come back from another ankle injury?
No...we have a DH
Vlad can’t play out in the field any longer.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Hold on
Are you telling me there’s a chance that we don’t trade for Clayton Kershaw and sign Jose Reyes this offseason?
But seriously, sometimes it’s a race to the bottom in proposing what could be the most ‘realistic’ deal that isn’t realistic at all on the side of the Tigers and downplays their payroll possibilites. I can almost guarantee the Tigers add someone more significant than Coco Crisp or Kelly Johnson via free agency unless the market turns against the Tigers (which it admittedly could)
Boesch for Headley
As mentioned, San Diego is cheap and may be looking to dump salary obligations in the near future.
Sign David DeJesus to play RF or LF, 2yrs / 12-15M. He’s a fairly safe bet at .350+ OBP and would fit well in the #2 spot in our lineup.
Sign Freddy Garcia as a veteran SP. 1yr/3M.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I would loooooove DDJ
He’d be a perfect fit for this Tigers team in LF. Unfortunately, Delmon Young is most likely (read: definitely) going to be back next year.
DDJ, Austin Jackson, and Boesch in the OF would make me very happy, which is why it isn’t going to happen.
by ozymandius1024 on Oct 26, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
DDJ
As someone who’s watched DDJ his entire career in Kansas City, I’m not sure there’s much left. He’s basically a doubles hitter at this point and he’s starting to slow down a bit.
by HawkeyeEdward on Oct 26, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
He don't need HR hitters
..and marginal speed goes to waste on this team anyhow. If I’m trading Boesch, we need a guy that can field the corner OF and get on base in front of Cabrera.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
NO!
Not Beosch for him, I love Headley though. Wouldn’t ever sign Garcia again
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
If it makes you feel better
Garcia isn’t in the rotation at the end of the year in my master plan.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I'd do Boesch for Headley
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 26, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd prefer Headley
And Ethier doesn’t play 3B
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 26, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be very excited about Boesch for Headley
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
But if you trade BB, we're one OF'er short
Delmon, Raburn, and AJax doesn’t do it for me
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
Fill from the market
There are actually OF"s that makes sense for us on the market, unlike 2B and 3B.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
BB is our No 1 choice to bat third, IMO
I guess you could sign a Willingham or something, but I’d love Ethier in the 2 or 3 slot, and I’d also love Headley near the top of the order.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
If Boesch were out of the picture...
My top choice on the market is DeJesus as a #2 hitter. Move VMart to #3 and Avila to #5 or vice/versa.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Glad your not the GM
why on earth would they do that deal. Boesch is blossoming into a force at the plate and still cheap for a number of years while Headley is going to be paid in the near future and is an average 3rd basemen at best. Better idea is to trade for callaspo, a solid third baseman that can match Headley’s career .735 ops for 2 years while Castenallos develops.
Callaspo could be had for Smyly or Below. Trading Boesch just creates another hole that would not be easy to fill.
by Benzy Ferrari on Oct 27, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That hole would be quite easy to fill this offseason
We would have a number of OF options available to us.
At a stupid price
Free agents cost wwwwaaaaaaayyyyy too much.
Cue to Crawford and Werth….look at their contracts and they aren’t that good. For god sakes, delmon is gonna bank 6 mil next year and hes not even out of Arb years yet
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
Check your phone
Pittsburg and Florida are calling…they need fans and don’t mess around with these pesky veteran salaries.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Neil Walker fits right in
Switch hitter, not a terrible OBP, some pop, middling on defense, capable of a big year, 26 years old.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
He'd certainly be worth a look
I like him as a player..and he’s Don Kelly’s brother-in-law, so you know Leyland loves him. Probably hangs out with him when he’s over visiting the Kelly’s at holidays.
Don Kelly-phelia aside, I think it would take a lot to pry Walker away from Pitt. He’s not arby1 eligible until 2013, so he won’t make much more than 2-3M until 2015. They’re in no hurry to deal him.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Not saying we shouldn't sign good talent for good money
Rather keep boesch because what you’d pay in an outfielder that puts up his lines would be retarded.
OF is the one place where I truly hate free agency. They get paid way to much on the open market considering corner outfielders aren’t exactly a rarity.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
Right...they're not rare, but you need 3 of 'em
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Perhaps, but it's not like the Tigers are exactly the most budget conscious team
As has been suggested here already, David DeJesus is available and costs $4-5million. Tops. That’s not that expensive. If he plays at a 1 WAR level, he’s earned his keep. Same premise for Ryan Ludwick.
So you think
Dejesus is going to stay healthy and put up his prime career norms. Dejesus is a 4th outfileder on a good team now. Ludwick is poor mans Raburn.
by Benzy Ferrari on Oct 28, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Until last season
DeJesus was a very reliable .280+ / .350+ / 440+ sort of guy. Then he went to the suckhole known as Oakland and effectively dropped his free agent price tag considerably by playing on a bad team in a bad ballpark. Age might be starting to catch up with him, but put him on the Tigers in the #2 spot and I’ll bet you a nickel and a Coke that his numbers are very comparable to the slash line above. Further, put him in front of our 3, 4, 5 hitters and he’ll score 100 Runs or more with 550+ AB’s.
Of course, it’s very possible Boesch could do this as well, but I’d be more confident in DeJesus doing it.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I like him
but he is turning 32 and has only played 150 games or over once in his career. Tough to put him in a starting spot. If they sign him as a 4th outfielder type I’ll be all for it but i don’t see it happening. Boesch has progressed at the plate each season and I’m confident he is only going to get better. He’ll put up .290/.350/.490 next year with many cost controlled years to follow and will only improve.
They need to focus on adding bats and bullpen arms that can match Texas, Bos, NYY if they are serious on winning a championship. We have seen Boesch can be a game breaker with his power.
by Benzy Ferrari on Oct 28, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I do.
Sign him for 2 years 8-9 million. He could earn his contract in 1 season. The only time he’s posted less than 2 fWAR (I’m including 2007 since it’s 1.9) was his rookie years in ‘03 and ’04. He’s almost a lock to be worth the money.
"...$20 million on the entire contract."
LAME!
but… reality… ;)
(Un)Official President of the Team Jacob Turner Fan Club
Yet Another Movie Blog
by DetroitTigersGeek on Oct 26, 2011 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
A good example would be Kenny Rogers
Kenny got $ 16 mil for two years.
Get an Oswalt or a Buehrle on a two year deal for a bit more and we’re in business. Might go over $ 20 mil, or they might take one year. But then don’t look for DD to still go after A Ram.
Ramirez, BTW, is going to be a free agent. There is a mutual option, but he’s going to decline his end if the Cubs pick up the other end for $ 16 mil. He’s not turning down 16 mil to work for less. He’ll want a few years at that much to make it all worth his while.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Matt Murton
Better career slash line than Delmon Young at a fraction of the price and better defense.
Brian Roberts...
See if you can deal Andy Oliver for Brian Roberts.
He seems to be recovering from his concussions, get Orioles to pay 50% of his deal and plug him into the #2 hole and at 2nd base.
It is a risk, but I don’t see a single decent option out there for 2B, plus you always have the Raburn/Santiago platoon to fall back on.
Not sure
If Roberts has something left I would but he may be done at this point. That. being said I’m split on Oliver, i’d give him one more chnace in the MLB
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
Last time he was healthy...
For the whole season in 2009, he was still a very good player. If he is still 75% of that guy, he is a very good pick up. Plus his skills, OBP and speed will age well.
I think Oliver’s ceiling at this point is bullpen guy in the mold of Schlereth. He can throw hard, but can’t locate his fastball or off speed stuff. We need to deal him now while he still has some value. Baltimore is rebuilding and might take a flier on an arm like his.
Roberts missed almost the entire season this year with a bad concussion
Last I heard is that he was doing better, but we won’t know until spring when he tries to play.
He would have been a good addition if healthy, and if the O’s would let him go.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Vestibular concussion...
Which is where his risk lies in the recovery from that injury, not his skills as a ball player if you ask me. But his therapy seems to be progressing well.
I think he definitely is worth it if the Orioles have interest. He has a limited no-trade clause too, so I don’t know if that would be an impediment to a deal.
Trade Dan Schlereth to Cleveland for 2B Luis Valbuena
He’s 25 years old. Bats Left handed. With Kipnis taking over at 2B, Valbuena may be trade bait. His hitting has been horrendous at MLB level, but he has done nothing wrong at the AAA level to keep him there. There is some potential with his bat, just like there was with Scott Sizemore. Valbuena plays good defense though, so he has some value even if he’s not hitting. He’s also Venezuelan.
So basically we’re trading one problem child for another.
I feel Valbuena is too weak a hitter
for a guy that wa pretty good out of the pn last season.
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
Yeah Valbuena is pretty terrible.
I don’t even think he’s a good fielder.
If Schlereth is too much, then someone else
Point being is that Luis Valbuena is the guy I’d trade for and it probably wouldn’t take much to get him.
I think we could get Valbuena for David Purcey at this point.
I don’t think anyone in Cleveland believes in him at all.
It's a trade that is possible on both ends
What’s wrong with Valbuena other than playing for Cleveland?
Take him out of that mess, put him in a good environment, and he’ll probably be a better MLB player. I think he’d be an improvement over Santiago, Don Kelly, and Inge.
I'd rather have Santiago, Worth, call up Brandon Douglas, move Betemit
I find no redeeming qualities in Valbuena, whatsoever. In parts of his four seasons, he has an OPS + of 72, a stat line of .226 .286 .344 .630, and negative fielding numbers on both Baseball Reference’s Rtot and Fangraphs UZR/ 150. Terrible numbers all the way around. He isn’t fit to carry Santiago’s jock strap.
Sorry, you just happened to pick one guy that I have absolutely no use for.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Now that's being silly
Brandon Dougless is 25 years old, (the same age as Valbuena), but has yet to play above AA yet. Valbuena was on a faster track. He was rushed to the majors well before he was ready.
Have you bothered to look at Valbuena’s AAA numbers over the last few years?
Brandon may yet become a ballplayer in the majors.
You never can tell until they’re in the show. We saw that with Scott Sizemore, Jeff Larish, and so many others. Valbuena has reeked, both offensively and defensively. I don’t want to get into Douglas vs Valbuena, but I just have no use for the guy and I certainly would not go into the season counting on him to figure something out in the majors for the first time in his life. I don’t see him as the solution to anything.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Valbuena.
Fact is, even if he has reeked as you said, you’d still have an impossible time finding a younger and better 2B on the trade block.
Sometimes just a change of scenery helps. It’s a very low risk trade. We wouldn’t have to give up much to get him and we wouldn’t have to pay much to keep him. Even if he plays in Toledo for the rest of his career, it’s still a good trade. He plays SS too.
I never said that he was the answer at 2B either. Only that he’d probably be available for a trade. He’s a shot in the dark to make in the majors, but he’d be my sleeper pick. In other words, getting him shouldn’t stop us from going after somebody else.
by Keith-Allen on Oct 26, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a problem solver, and I don't think this guy solves our problem
Santiago is better. Worth is better, IMO.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Santiago and Worth aren't solving anything.
Valbuena has much more upside.
by Keith-Allen on Oct 26, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
although I agree,
he doesn’t solve our problems at 2b. He’s just has a chance to be a good role player. He’ll never be an All-Star, like any of the guys you’d want at 2B that are impossible to get.
by Keith-Allen on Oct 26, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I just wrote an entire post on infielders that are possible to get
The Angels would definitely move Izturis if they got something valuable back.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Trivia Question
What player did Cleveland traded to the Reds for a player to be named later.
At the time of the trade, this player reeked and have no redeeming qualities.
Answer: Brandon Phillips .
by Keith-Allen on Oct 26, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not really a fair comparison..
Phillips was a top ten prospect in all MLB. His only real experience in the majors prior to the trade was as a 22 year old.
Valbuena has never been that highly thought of.
I'm not saying Valbuena is the next Phillips
He’s more like the next Adam Kennedy.
A league average 2B.
Can’t you guys can’t see that value in that? Getting a young 2B, that makes the league minimum pay, and putting up league average numbers. The guy has some pop in his bat too. He’s a steady solid defender, that doesn’t make many errors, and he’ll make the occasional incredible play. Even John Sickels with agree with that.
He could play in Toledo too
and he wouldn’t cost us any major talent. So where’s the risk in it? About all he’d do is send Will Rhymes packing.
Does he still have an option left?
He’s been up and down for a few seasons, now. He’s used up two, if not all three of them.
You might like this article on Valbuena and there are two more links at the bottom of the article, one is a Baseball America piece on Valbuena. Safe to say that Kipnis and Cord Phelps have both passed him up on the depth chart. Looks like another prospect that looked promising but couldn’t get over the hump.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
Don't forget that he’s Venezuelan.
We need to restock them.
Lost 1 last year, gained one last year.
will lose two this year. My math sucks but I have deduced you are correct. We will need more Venezualians.
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
trade Dan Schlereth
anywhere… for anything.
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
id take a large pizza for him
maybe a side of breadsticks too to sweeten the deal
by chuggingspartan on Oct 30, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a big fan of
signing Grady Sizemore to a one year, 8-10 million dollar deal. If he returns to his old self, then great, he can play any of the outfield spots (he replaces Delmon, AJax or Boesch, whoever does the worst). And if he doesn’t turn out to be his former self, then he’s still better than Dirks, Raburn (until the second half), and Donnie Kelly. In his last fully healthy season (2008) he had a 7.4 WAR and a UZR of 8.9
and what if he gets hurt?
which he presumably will. then he’s not better than anyone. I’ll pass…
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
I'd go for Grady.
He’s an excellent “Comeback Player of the Year” candidate.
He’ll be one of the most interesting FA’s if the Indians don’t pick up his option.
Saying someone is an excellent comeback player of the year candidate is silliness
Because it’s so general. Pretty much all you have to do to be a candidate is been decent at some point in your career, then do well again.
I mean hell, Inge is an ideal candidate for this!
I agree
But before Grady’s injuries, he was a perennial MVP candidate, All-Star, and gold glove Center Fielder. He was without a doubt one of the best young outfielders in the game.
by Keith-Allen on Oct 26, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
The Tribe have to decide whether to pick up his $ 9 mil option
if they decline it, he’ll have plenty of interested clubs, maybe including the Tigers. Why not?
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
I think he'll get decent money...too much for the risk
His last three years have shown him to be in general physical decline.
2009 – Groin injury, throwing elbow injury, hernia resulting from groin injury, and season-ending surgery on elbow.
2010 – Bruised knee= microfracture surgery, accounting for all missed time in 2010 and the start of 2011
2011 – After returning from right knee surgery, injures left knee and sustains hernia on slide. Abdominal surgery. Left knee is still balky.
So, you’ve got surgically repaired throwing elbow and right knee, a left knee that isn’t right, and a surgically repaired abdomen. The arm ain’t what it once was, the legs aren’t what they once were, and you’ve got four major areas held together by stitches, glue, and duct tape.
His prior status as an elite defender needs to be adjusted to having two bad knees and a surgically repaired throwing arm. His value as a base stealer is also most likely gone with the knees in question. Outside of ‘05 and ’06 (around .290 each year), he’s never really hit for much average.
He was once hailed as a 5-tool player. People still think he can be, but these days, he’s really just an injury prone guy that might hit you 25 dingers or might be on the DL all year.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Two words - Lance Berkman
St. Louis took a gamble and it paid off. I feel who ebver gambles on Grady will be happy they did
When I saw Grady got his option declined I thought a headline next year would be......
….Grady Sizemore 2012 Comeback Player of the Year.
Course it could also be “Surgery ends promising Grady Sizemore career”
He is worth a 5-6 million one year deal
We should bring in as many former indians as we can Victor and Jhonny seemed to have worked out.
by jonathan.onne on Oct 26, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's make Choo a former Indian
and Kipnis, and Ubaldo, and even take Jack Hannahan back!
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Relief pitcher
Take a chance on cheap contracts for Wuertz and Broxton, and sign a bunch of minor league free agents.
Sensible Acquisitions
1. Trade Rob Brantly and Drew Smyly to San Diego for Chase Headley. The Pods are thin at the catcher position in their system.
2a. Trade Ryan Raburn and Ryan Perry to the Reds for Brandon Phillips. He’ll cost $ 12 million for one year. Try to extend him, and take the two draft picks if he walks. He’s sure to remain a Type A free agent.
2b. Trade Ryan Perry or Dan Schlereth to the Angels for Maicer Izturis. He can play 2B, SS, 3B, all pretty well, he has a bit of pop in his bat and has some speed and contact ability, and usually hits for average. He is a free agent after next season. I’m sure he can be extended. (I’m assuming they won’t trade Kendrick for anything short of Castellanos).
3. Trade Andy Oliver or Casey Crosby to Arizona for Joe Saunders, who is a strong non tender candidate set to make about 7- 8 mil in arbitration this winter. That’s a little pricey for a fifth starter, but the guy has a knack for winning games despite his projectible stats not being sparkling, he keeps the runs down and is a marked improvement over Brad Penny. He’s a lefty for those with that fetish, and Arizona doesn’t want to pay him.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
there's an echo in here....ere....ere....ere....ere....ere
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Raburn and Perry for Phillips...
oh dear sweet jesus. TD, Raburn is my boy and all… but there’s not a chance in hell the Reds make that deal. they’d be better off picking up Phillips option and then letting him walk than trade for a guy who’s a streaky hitter without a position and a once closer in waiting who now struggles with inconsistency in middle relief.
I don’t see a Phillips trade happening at all. Don’t get me wrong… I’d love to put him in our lineup and if that does happen, awesome. I’m just not gunna hold my breath. And it definitely won’t be for that package.
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
If they pick up his option, they can't let him walk for another season, and they're on the hook for $ 12 million
but they also can’t get full value for him because he’s a one year rental and apparently head strong about getting a four year deal for a lot of money. That will drop his price tag significantly vs a player that can be signed as a free agent without giving up any prospects. If available, he would be the primo second baseman.
The Reds also have some expensive decisions to make. They want to extend Votto, they’re losing Cordero and need a closer, Ramon Hernandez is a free agent, they have big contracts for Arroyo, Aroldis Chapman isn’t getting any cheaper, Volquez, Bailey, and five others are arbitration eligible- and they can’t pay all these players, while they need to improve their team. They will want a couple of major league pieces for Phillips. I’d first see if he’s available. If not, move on.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Why wouldn't they just let him walk and get the type A picks?
That’s way more valuable than two crappy Tigers players.
They have a buyout
If they think the players are crappy, then obviously they don’t do the deal. It would depend what their scouts tell them. Raburn is a 3.3 WAR player over the past two seasons. Perry is a first round pick still making his way into the bigs. If they want something else, try another package that doesn’t blow a hole in the team.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
What does the buyout have to do with letting him walk and getting two picks?
They can pay the buyout and still cash those in.
No one wants Raburn and Perry. We don’t even want them.
If the Tigers didn't want them, they'd be gone. They won't be gone.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
They're here because they're under contract and aren't significant enough to dump.
When you have large holes in the bullpen and at 2B and you’re talking about two guys who aren’t good enough to fill those holes, no one else wants them to fill their holes, either. Giggity.
Perry is not under contract
He’s not even eligible for arbitration. These players have value, whether you want to believe that or not. Whether they’d get Phillips is a matter of what the Reds want for him. First, they will definitely try to work out an extension, but the two sides were far apart at last report. They have many players that are getting collectively too expensive, and they’re pretty sure they won’t be able to keep Votto after next year.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Yeah it doesn't make sense for them to non-tender him, so he'll stick around.
Still can’t trade him for crap. Now if you want to get him in the Luis Valbuena discussion or as a throw-in for something, sure. If Phillips hits the market, it’s not even so much what the Reds value those two as, they’ll get better offers from teams that afford more in prospects.
We differ
I think Raburn and Perry have value, and the Reds won’t get full value for Phillips, because there isn’t much value beyond a $ 12 million salary for one year that a club would be willing to pay for him. Not many 2B’s make that much money. If that package doesn’t work, then we can come up with another one, but they won’t get a front line starting pitcher or position player for him, and they’ll want guys that they can plug in right away. If they don’t deal him, move on to Izturis as I suggested originally. And there are others that can be had.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
Looks like NO second baseman made $ 12 million in 2011
at a quick glance. There are a couple moving up there. Cano has a $ 14 mil option, Uggla and Weeks just signed extensions that approach that number, but basically, Phillips would be the highest, or one of the highest paid 2B in the game at $ 12 mil.
That’s why the Reds can’t expect to get too much on top of unloading his salary if they do a sign n trade. Even if they decline the option, pay his buyout, offer arbitration, he declines, a new club still has to give up a draft pick to sign him.
You guys are hung up on the value of Raburn and Perry, but it could be any second tier players that are major league ready that fit what the Reds want. I’m sure they’d love to have a middle of the order bat. Offer them Delmon and keep Raburn. I don’t think the money is worth the difference to them, but if it works, do it. Unless they can work a four plus year deal, they’ll be willing to trade him.
King of Minutae...... fearless blog leader
I don't see
why the Reds would do something like this, It doesn’t make them better now, it doesn’t make them better in the future. Philips is a top 5 second baseman. If they end up keeping Votto you can bet they are going to go all in for 2012, not make their team worse. If they trade Votto they are going to be in a bit of rebuild and will want higher ceiling players. Your one real justification is cost, but even at 12mil Philips provides a ton of surplus value at a weak position, there is bound to be a team that will offer a package better than two middling MLB players, especially if teams think they can work out an extension before the end of 2012.
Obviously, you have to have the best offer to get him
a team really has to be at least semi-desperate for a 2b, has to have money to spend on payroll, and had to be able to come up with the package of players that would fit the Reds’ scheme. They’ll be looking for major leaguers or major league ready players that don’t cost much money. Clubs are generally not willing to part with good, young, cheap players under club control for several more seasons.
I don’t see the comparison with A Gon. Anyway, my main point is that I’d first look at Phillips and see if he can be pried loose before any of the free agent 2B or the other potential trade candidates at that position.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
I think you are pretty drastically undervaluing Philips, also he is probably not technically not eligible for this thread, coming off his second straight all-star appearance and the best season of his career
and he'll make $ 12 million, more than any 2B made in MLB this year, and is a free agent after one year
By the time the club gets done paying him that $ 12 million, there’s just not that much surplus value left. He’s just not in the same class as A Gon.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
$12 million isn't more than any 2B made this year
At $12M, he will actually be 4th highest paid 2B in 2012, which seems fairly accurate for a top 5 2B. Brandon Philips is an elite player. From 08-11 Philips was worth 73.8M in terms of war, more than 18M/year. That isn’t even counting the increasing marginal value of WAR.
Last time I checked, "this year" is 2011
but he’s still right at the top of the pay scale. He’s expensive for a 2B, but paying him fair value for what a free agent would get plus giving up players is an over pay. A club has to be desperate for a 2B to give that much, so the Reds won’t get full value, and they know that. If they at some of the money (which makes no sense since they can let him walk) they could get better players back.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
I said this year
12mil would not be the highest paid 2B this year (2011), it would be 4th next year 2012
Nick Galea is exagerrating a bit
But the point still stands that to get Phillips we would have to give up something more valuable than 2 picks.
Your offer isn’t more valuable than those picks. It’s a non-starter.
right
pick up his option, have him for this year at 12 million and let him walk. I understand… that’s what I was saying. they’d be better off doing that then letting him go for Raburn and Perry.
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
All solid ideas but
Not enough for Phillips – No way the Reds even consider Raburn & Perry for Phillips – MAYBE Jackson and Perry. I also can’t se Arizon trading there number 4 guy for either an unproven rookie (Oliver) or a rookie that has injury history (Crosby). I haven’t seen Kendricks name on the table yet this off season and doubt he is available, though Itzuris seems to be available. Doubt that BOTH sclereth and Perry would be enough.
Brantley and Smyley for Headley sounds like one that could work, though it may take a third kid
The Reds will first try to extend Phillips
if that doesn’t work, expect a trade in July, but they won’t get full value for a rental making that much money.
"King of Minutiae"
I said it once and I'll say it again:
Javier Lopez. Unfortunately, I feel like the front office will ignore the bullpen.
Nick Punto.
His departure from Minnesota left them in shambles, while the Cards are playing in the series now. He could be the difference! /sarcasm
I really hope we sign him
Just to watch heads explode.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2011 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Sign Mike Gonzalez
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
Boesch and Porcello
I seriously cannot understand the fascination with trading Boesch or Porcello. If they end up traded, it should be because they are quality young players that other teams view as usable or valuable…not because of some disappointment with them “not living up to their potential”.
by rohdman on Oct 27, 2011 9:46 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
This is exactly why they'd go for a guy like Headley or Gardner.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It's quite simple, really
The market may not be able to adequately address our needs. There are very few impact players at 2B or 3B and those few impact players that exist are free to sign anywhere they choose. Even if they do choose Detroit, they will be expensive.
Another avenue would be to trade for players that address our needs. We deal from positions of strength or we create holes that we can actually fill from the market or internally.
Trading requires trade partners. Unfortunately, those partners would like players of value in return. A key consideration of many trades is payroll. Large budget teams, like Detroit, often seek out small market teams, like San Diego that are looking to trade expensive production for cheap production or potential.
So, our most valuable players are those that are A) Productive and B) Cheap. When you start making lists of Tigers that fit these criteria, the list doesn’t go much further than Boesch and Porcello.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I just rec'd this
Couldn’t agree more
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
It's the same reason Granderson was traded.
To get good players, it’s generally required to give up your good players. People are mentioning Boesch and Porcello because, unlike the Raburn/Perry/Wilk garbage combos that get thrown around, those two could realistically get a good player back.
Yup
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Granderson was traded because DD shot the payroll was on bad contracts
He said so himself. “Adjustments needed to be made”. Either he cleared some contracts off the books, or he could not even replace the free agents that were leaving without increasing payroll even higher than it was in 2009. The trade was made in an undeniable financial context.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
To be fair
2 of those extensions were Illitch’s work. DD didn’t have a choice; hence, no ramifications
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
DD had to sign off on all of them
We really don’t know the extent of Ilitch’s involvement, but the bottom line is that all those extensions maxed out the payroll. The last straw was Magglio’s $ 18 million option vesting, and they didn’t make the playoffs. Those extensions were like crapping out 12 times in a row, and there were really only four players with real value that could clear some payroll space. He dealt two of them.
Porcello or BB don’t bring the kind of salary relief that Curtis gave them, nor do we need to this year. Where there is similarity is in the fact that there are a limited number of good young players that will bring back what we really need in a trade. DD has swindled other GM’s a few times, but not every trade can work out like that. If he can get a Headley without trading a starter out of the lineup, I’d be delighted.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
That doesn't have anything to do with my point.
DD would have much preferred to trade Guillen and Willis for that foursome. Regardless of whether or not you think trading Granderson or trading Porcello or Boesch were and are good ideas, they are being mentioned precisely because they are good players. So when someone asks “why do you want to trade good players,” that is why.
There was also word that Granderson was traded
Because Leyland wanted an defensive upgrade at CF.
Yes, there was.
http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/121413402735292416
He is right. Granderson always had a bit a of trouble starting off on his runs and quite a few of his plays were only spectacular because he screwed them up and had to recover.
The financial reality is indisputable, the Tigers had to either....
1. Raise payroll even higher than the $ 135 million where it was in 2009, or
2. Clear some payroll space to make ANY roster additions from outside, including replacements for departing free agents Polanco, Lyon, Rodney, and Everett, and STILL have payroll go up some, or
3. Keep the players they had, replace the departing free agents internally, as they did with Sizemore at 2B.
They chose option 2. There were a grand total of four players on the roster, at most, that made any sort of money that were worth more than their contracts. They were Cabrera, Verlander, Granderson, and Edwin Jackson. They kept Cabrera, extended Verlander, and traded the other two. That cleared room to sign a closer and a No. 2 hitter. The cut Thames and Treanor, and brought Everett back as a cheap option at SS. They replaced Polanco internally with Sizemore. DD had to make the math work.
That’s not to say that there weren’t other considerations. There was also talk that Ordonez, Guillen, Cabrera, and Granderson all had little respect for McLendon and would not heed his advice, but anyone that thinks the Tigers felt they could replace Granderson with Jackson, or Polanco with Sizemore for that matter, is in full denial of the statements that DD and JL both made, and of the reality that the numbers show us in graphic detail. We took a hit in performance to clear payroll, to give some wiggle room for other moves.
Fortunately, the Tigers are not in that situation any more. Some $ 80 million in bad contracts are all off the books now. Only the bad extension to Inge- which isn’t even that bad- remains. While the Twinkies and Chicago are in full scale rebuild and budget crisis mode, and while KC and Cleveland don’t have money to begin with, the Tigers are on solid financial footing, and have an owner that is willing to spend more. But if the players they want can’t be had with “just money”, it may take giving up more good players like a Boesch, or Porcello, to get what the Tigers need for the long haul. If they do trade those players, though, the return should be substantial.
Fortunately
"King of Minutiae"
Just to sum up...
…it’s been a long day, and I’m reading through the replies and new comments, so forgive me if I’m restating the obvious:
*Boesch and Porcello are good, young players
*They are the type of players that other teams would want
*We don’t NEED to trade them, though if we do make a trade in which they are included, it will most likely be one of value to both/all teams involved
*Why would anyone want the other fringe guys on our roster?
*It doesn’t seem reasonable to expect another team to give us good players for marginal players, so why even propose that?
Heck, I like both of those guys, and I would prefer they stick around. I’ve been around long enough to remember the early 80’s when they would bring up good players from their system, so I’ve been through the lean — VERY lean — years when we had to fool ourselves into thinking that the guys they were calling up were legitimate major league players.
It is so nice to be able to be talking about home-grown guys that are quality players. Go Tigs!
Marginal players
One exception to the good player for good player trade clause can be added.
If, and only if, a decent player is expected to earn, in the very near future, something that is substantially out of his current team’s budget, you may suggest trading lesser players for said expensive player. However, lesser players must be inexpensive and have potential to be good. Ryan Perry fits this definition, Brandon Inge does not.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I don't get why everyone seems to want to dump a kid that has 38 more wins than Verlander did at same age
Porcello is only 22 but since he has been around now for quite a while some in baseball may under value him sot the return would be not nearly what it should be. I would let Kid Rick pitch until his walk year and then either package him or let him walk for sure to be # 1 pick. That is if compensation survives. as it is now, in the next players agreement.
Boesch though is a bit different. Tiger fans seem to adore him, maybe it is the Norm Cash like swing. I just do not see him having one of those long, sustainable big league careers. Not really sure why I feel that way. Maybe it is shades of Chris Shelton and how quickly he faded, like Boesch did in 2010. Now I GET that he was pretty good for most of 2011, but there is still a lack of plate discipline that really bothers me.
If I was Dombrowski I would put Boesch on the block and at least listen to offers. You are never sure of value until you make an offer, or someone makes you an offer. For the right trade, straight up, I might trade Boesch in a heart beat.
I don't think most are giving up on Porcello
The vibe I’m getting is that 2B and 3B don’t look like positions that will improve much through free agency. We’ll have to address these needs via trade if we’re going to improve substantially.
Our most valuable players when it comes to trade are probably Boesch and Porcello. They’re both young with decent upside. They’re cheap and they have proven production at the major league level. If you want a talented impact 2B or 3B, you’re going to have to give something up and names like Raburn, Inge, Young, and Oliver aren’t going to get it done. Our position of strength is probably SP with the guys in the high minors. That’s why Rick’s name is floating around.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
WE'RE NOT DUMPING HIM
*deep breath
Sorry, don’t mean to yell at you, but a bunch of people aren’t getting it; we’re trying to flip a guy who might have a sizeable chunk of value. So it’s him, Scherzer or Boesch.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Nov 2, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
With the tigers moving into a new statduim this year I think signing a big named hitter like Juan Gonzalez would be a great idea!
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Oct 27, 2011 10:34 AM EDT reply actions
I would give the Pirates a call and kick the tires on Alvarez
See if maybe a change of scenery is all he needs. I’m sure they haven’t given up on him yet, but maybe the right package could pry him loose.
by CoreyMichaelDC on Oct 27, 2011 10:57 AM EDT reply actions
A Couple 3B situations that could dictate our options
Reds: The Reds have all kinds of moving pieces on their infield this year and not enough room to fit them all in. Either Scott Rolen, or Todd Frazier is going to end up without a starting position this year. If the Reds decide to go with Frazier this year they may look to dump Rolen for some salary relief. The Reds could also decide Juan Francisco is their future at 3B and Rolen gives them the best chance to win now leaving Frazier as the odd man out. Frazier can play OF, but unless they Reds decide to trade Votto their corner outfield already look locked in with Alonso and Bruce.
Pirates: It looks like the Pirates are ready to sell low on Pedro Alvarez. At a low price I would welcome the opportunity to see if his offense improves hitting at the back end of a much better lineup.
Cardinals: This one is probably a year too soon, but if the Cardinals decide Zack Cox is ready to contribute David Freese could become available. Freese would be pretty expensive, but he is solid on both sides of the ball.
Seattle: It strange to think that Seattle might have extra position players, but it looks like they do. With Ackley’s emergence at 2B Kyle Seager is without a position. Seattle will likey give up on Chone Figgins and start Seager at 3B this season but if they decide to keep rolling Figgy out there and they like the more traditional 3B in their system Seager may be available. I have to believe Seager would fit in at 2B not #B for us, but I think he would be an upgrade at either spot
My best guess on this group would put, Rolen, and Alvarez coming fairly cheap, with Freese being the most expensive and Frazier and Seager somewhere in between
If I had to put names on what we give up (which is going to get me in trouble)
Freese – Porcello (I would actually love to see what the ground-ball master does with Rick)
Frazier – Two young relievers they like, maybe Perry and Oliver, or Schlereth and Villareal
Seager – Fields
Alvarez – Oliver
Rolen – Salary relief + PTBN based on Rolen’s performance, low end AAA org, high end Below
Alvarez is worth more than Oliver
Or at least another player
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
I'd rather see Duncan in Detroit
Than Porcello in St Louis
God ain't got no use for a 180 lb bag of sugar.
Casey McGehee
The Brewers’ third baseman became a different (worse) hitter this year. Milwaukee thought they had a David Wright in him his first two years but he fell to Inge-like numbers last year as opposing pitchers realized you don’t throw him fastballs, like ever.
Casey can play 2nd base. He could be Inge, he could be Raburn, he could be Boone, he’s probably Inge in 2006. His terrible BABIP (3rd worst in the majors) last year is more a testament to his chopping at sliders all July. In August he put a loop in his swing and started hitting way more fly balls and home runs. The loop exposed a weakness against lefties which he seems to have fixed right at the end of last season. A baseline for him should be a .280 hitter with some power.
He ended up riding bench in the playoffs as Milwaukee rolled with Hairston. Casey is arb eligible (Brewers don’t like arbitration) after 2012. With Weeks solid at 2nd and Taylor Green, their AAA phenom at 3rd, probably ready for the majors next year, McGehee is probably expendable.
He’s a risk, but a pretty cheap risk; I think he could be had for a couple of minor league arms. The 2010 Brewers team MVP has a lot of downside: bad on the basepaths, not much of a fielder (20 errors at 3rd) and the Tigers have bad history with infielders who don’t tuck in their shirts all the way.
McGehee won’t be at the top of the order, but he has the power to be a very productive bat in the 6th or 7th spots, and has Sean Casey-ish personality to boot. He’s not worth a major league player but I’d like to know what the market is for him; if Milwaukee feels they need to move him this might be the time to buy low.
www.mgoblog.com
Great Idea
never thought of this but why not. You may be on to something here.
by Benzy Ferrari on Oct 27, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I like McGehee too
"I will play tomorrow unless I am dead when I wake up" - Victor Martinez
Still think ... this is what happens
David Wright comes over from the Mets. Takes Oliver, Smyly and Fields. Wright agrees to keep his option in place.
This is the “big bat” that has been rumored, and he transforms the lineup in the 3.
Santiago is resigned, or someone comparable. If a Hill is available on the cheap, they might go that way.
AJax, Boesch, Wright, Cabrera, Victor, Young, Avila, Peralta, Santiago/Raburn.
5th starter? I know Turner is “off limits” in this discussion, but it wouldn’t surprise me a bit to see Turner traded for a James Shields type. A guy who is getting too expensive for his team, and will contribute to the Tigers immediately.
Final move? A late in ST veteran reliever pick up.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
Mets fans will riot is the best they get for Wright is Smyly
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Wright's not eligible for this thread
5 ASG appearances. Same with Shields, who should be banned.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
But ... Wright was injured
That’s my excuse, and I’m sticking to it.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
I highly doubt the Mets will part with Wright
All indications point to the Mets keeping Reyes or Wright, but they can’t keep both and it would be horrible to lose those two. And if the Mets decided to trade Wright and resign Reyes, there is no way they would only take Olive, Smyly, and Fields. Sorry if this sounded harsh, but I’m just trying to state facts.
Now to the Shields/Turner part. If Shields would be a #2-3, like we were speculating before acquiring Fister, then Shields would make sense. However, Detroit needs a fifth starter. Why not let Turner develop in the 5th spot?
Detroit Tigers: 2011 AL Central Champs
Have this feeling, Wright is the guy
Don;’t know why … maybe it was something I ate.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
Probably not
They could blow it up this year or the next, but the fact that they didn’t trade Reyes or Beltran indicates they probably won’t.
by metatron5369 on Oct 28, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Sign Michael Cuddyer to play 2B. Or 3B.
Would 2yrs/$20 million get it done? Maybe with an option for a third year?
- He has the “ability” to play at 2B or 3B
- While I cannot speak intelligently about defensive ratings, I like the look of his 2011 slash line (.284/.346/.459) and would like to see him batting in the Tigers’ #2 spot in 2012
- I don’t think he is a Type A free agent, so the Tigers won’t have to forfit their 2012 fist round pick to Minnesota… and unlike a trade, the Tigers wouldn’t have to lose any prospects like Smyly, Fields, Oliver, etc
- The negatives? He’ll be 33 by Opening Day, he’ll attract interest from other deep-pocketed clubs, he’s right-handed, he’s only played 532 innings at 2B in 11 years, he is about as fast as every other 2011 Tiger not named Austin, and his last name is more difficult to spell that Rayburn…
"All aboard! There is plenty of room."
Brennan Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
I wouldn't mind that move.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 27, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't mind the move either
I just like it more as an OFer than a 2B or 3B. I have to think about that a few times to even consider it.
Good God
I shudder to image the butchery on his last name. Possibilities include Cuyder, Cudyer, Cuddier, Cuddyier, and for the truly lost, Cuddeyer
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
2B?
Cuddyer can’t really “play” anything by 1B and maybe corner OF. Even corner OF is stretch.
Sign Michael Cuddyer and Mike Aviles.
Both can play 3B, 2B, OF, and can hit.
I don't think you get Cuddyer under $ 20 mil
He will be a top five OF on the free agent market, and lots of clubs will be interested. Enough to get a multi year contract. He also played 17 games at 2B this season, 1 in 2010, no games at 3B this season, and 14 in 2010, then none since 2005. They’ve put him in the infield in a pinch, but he’s not really an infielder.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
My two cents
None of the big free agents really fit the Tigers needs. Reyes plays SS, which is currently filled by Peralta, Aramis and Jimmy Rollins will probably be overpaid in this weak market, and Detroit is finally done shedding their horrible contracts. I doubt the Reds move Phillips, and I don’t think the Pirates will trade Walker, one of their most popular players.
I firmly believe that the “big bat” will come through a trade. I have no clue who it could be, but I think it could be a surprising name that nobody was thinking.
However, this is all my speculation and I could be totally wrong.
Detroit Tigers: 2011 AL Central Champs
I agree with most of this
except for Rollins. I actually think J-Roll is going to get underpaid, if he is willing to play 2B I would take him on a 4/40 type deal in a heartbeat, but that doesn’t qualify for this discussion.
What about aaron hill?
I would give him a 2 year $18 million. He plays good defense and has some pop in his bat. Would be a solid 2B.
Oh he can also steal as well.
he stole 21 this year
Translation to Tigers = 7 SB
Leyland doesn’t run with marginal speed.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
yeah but it is better than everyone not named jackson.
Jackson had 22 steals and the next highest was boesch with 5
Do 5-7 SB matter enough to mention?
Particularly when you compare it with what we would get from replacement. The SB’s are pretty much a non-factor on the Tigers, but taking an extra base every now and again would be nice.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I'd prefer Kelly Johnson
Johnson and Hill are very similar cases. They’ve had good years that you’d be delighted with, but are a year or two removed from those numbers. More recently, they haven’t been much better than our internal options, but will be considerably more expensive. And of course, they were swapped for each other even up, so they’ll always be a bit connected. For whatever reason, I feel like Johnson is a decent player that had a bad season and Hill is a crummy player that had a good season in 2009.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
your probably right.
Either way, I would take either one of them
Poor Johnson
That designation probably just cost him a couple of million. Certainly reduced his pool of suitors.
Lucky Hill. That designation probably just earned him a couple of million.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
either way I would take either one of them
if the price is right.
Bahhhh
I was going to suggest Matt Cain as a possible wild-card trade, but he made his 2nd ASG this season.
Lincecum’s arbitration/extension is going to be MONSTROUS and affording Cain as well is going to be a luxury, but alas, I cannot.
Reyes is a sensible acquisition... in a sense
Because there’s always the risk that he may otherwise end up in Chicago or Minnesota and that would change the balance in the division. If he’s gonna make 20mil/year both our division rivals had already cleared some payroll and could make the deal happen. (there I said it; sorry but I had to get it out of my system).
Sticking by the thread rules though, I’d like to see if Polanco could return for one of Smyly/Oliver/Raburn and play both 2B and 3B.
my strategy
3B: Needs to be a trade. Headley most likely, Smyly, Coke, + whatever. Fall-back: if SD (or anybody else) does not bite, re-sign Betemit. I don’t think Betemit/Inge is completely horrible.
2B: FA signing would work, Johnson at 2/13 or Hill at 1/4. Fallback: If not, Santiago/Raburn would also not be completely horrible. If Santiago wants to move on, go mainly with Raburn, Worth would be the backup/defensive sub.
LF: Realistically, I would offer arb. to DY, unless you can get Crisp or Wilingham to sign for a fair price. I would also see if Grady Sizemore might be willing to sign a 1 yr deal for 120 games. Boesch/DY/Sizemore/Ajax would be a very deep and effective OF. Fallback plan: IF Raburn is going to be the 2B most days, then you need a 5th OF who needs to be a RHB. Sign a cheap vet in February. Magglio would even work if he’s willing to do it cheaply.
RP: Wait until January for bargains. If not, no big deal, as AA, JB, JV are good at the end, Coke good LHP. Give Pauley another shot.
SP: Wait until January for bargains. If none, go with Turner.
also
I would have Victor be the backup C, but i would also sign the best catcher willing to do spend time in Toledo as a 3rd catcher to such a contract, even if it means spending a little extra.
Alternatively: sign Ryan Doumit to be the 4th/platoon OF and backup C. Actually I really like that idea, 1 yr $5M. or 2 yrs $8M.
Who's the 4th OF?
Three good hitters, and Austin Jackson needs to get PA’s.
by metatron5369 on Oct 28, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
All I know is that Motor City Bengals says we should have this one guy named Scott Sizemore on our trade radar.
http://motorcitybengals.com/2011/10/25/tigers-potential-trade-target-scott-sizemore/
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
PS: it's a joke
PPS: It’s still better than the Bleacher Report.
PPPS: Even my website is better than the Bleacher Report
PPPPS: I like post scripts.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
While not an acquisition, doubt there will be a "Proposed Position/Role Changes for 2012 Tigers"...
Ryan Perry. The bullpen is obvious not the place for you, so lets try the rotation, most likely in Toledo first, and see what happens. You were a starter in college at Arizona, so hopefully you remember how to pitch from the windup. And throw strikes.
"All aboard! There is plenty of room."
Brennan Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
he started a few games but I don't think he was really a college starter
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 29, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Like Chance Ruffin
there was some chatter when he was drafted that he could start, but the Tigers taking him that early in the draft obviously meant that they were looking for a quick return- in the bullpen.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
I agree with all of that, but...
I don’t be lieve that Perry can be trusted to pitch critical innings at the end of games, and if that is the case, why not see if he would be better suited for the rotation.
"All aboard! There is plenty of room."
Brennan Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
Give the multitude of internal options for the rotation..
and the fact that Perry was lights out in the second half of 2010 (2.34 ERA, 1.00 WHIP in 34 appearances after the break), and the fact that he’s a first round pick that was drafted to be a reliever in MLB in short order, I think they will stick with him in the pen. They can pull a Coke stunt every so often, but there are four spots set in the rotation, and one up for grabs with Below, Turner, Oliver, Crosby, Wilk, possibly Smyly and who knows what other NRI’s or free agents are brought in…. vying for one spot. The percentage play is still to see if Perry can get his stuff together in the bullpen. His issues are consistency and control. If he can’t sort those out for one inning, six or seven doesn’t seem likely.
King of Minutiae...... fearless blog leader
Two proposed signings for the 2012 pitching staff...
1) Sign Joel Zumaya to a minor league deal. Maybe he’ll be healthy, maybe he won’t. Regardless, 50 innings from Zumaya are better than 50 innings from Adam Wilk.
2) Call Jeremy Bonderman, and see how his arm is feeling. With 12+ months of rest, maybe he can throw 93+ mph again… and maybe he’d like to pitch out of the bullpen. Besdies, I’d look forward to Lynn Hennings articles in February about how this is the year that Bonderman finally develops his off-speed pitch. With a potential bullpen assignment, Bonderman would be more than adequate with a live fastball and a nasty slider.
"All aboard! There is plenty of room."
Brennan Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
Rest may not be enough for Bonderman.
His surgical procedure (the one he underwent) isn’t exactly known to be easily recoverable. When a pitcher has no offers and goes a year or so outside of baseball, that’s usually the end of their MLB career.
I have a grand idea: let's win a game.
I felt like Bondo had mentally retired before the off season came last year.
He will remain very comfortably retired.
"King of Minutiae"
Dammit
I really want to un-retire my Bondo jersey…
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Oct 30, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That jersey will be worth millions when Bondo makes the HOF, first ballot.
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
by Singledigit on Oct 30, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade for Orlando Hudson...
…he is under contract with the Padres for 2012, and has a team option for 2013.
San Diego has a new GM, so he he might not need alot in return for a trade. That, and San Diego probably wants to be younger and cheaper, and trading the O-Dog helps them in both areas. In return, San Diego can have their pick of any of the relievers from the 2008 draft.
I’ve now solved the 3B issues (signing Michael Cuddyer) and the 2B issues (trading for Orlando Hundson) for the 2012 Tigers.
"All aboard! There is plenty of room."
Brennan Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
The one missing link from having possibly the worst fielding infield in history last year was third base
When Inge started there, anyway. It’s possible that when Raburn started at 2B and Betemit at 3B, there was less range in the Tiger infield than any in history. Now, if Cuddyer is added for 3B, we’ll seal the deal.
(L-R)Cuddyer, Jhonny, Raburn, Miguel. And people wonder why Rick Porcello has that “deer in headlights” look? … lol
Justin can now let the fungus grow back on his shower shoes.
by Singledigit on Oct 30, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the idea of the Hudson trade
He might not be very expensive in terms of prospects (think marginal AA or A guys) if Detroit is willing to pay the 5.5M he is due next year (which, by the way, looks to be the biggest contract the Pads have on the books.)
He was a pretty reliable .800 OPS with a decent glove until 2009. His numbers in ‘10 and’11 make him look to be in decline, but he’s still only 33, so I wouldn’t doom him yet. Also, part of his downward trend might be due to the general offensive suckhole known as San Diego and a poor (.293) BABIP in 2011. He’s got pretty good speed and even with his down offensive numbers in 2011, was a 1.8 WAR guy. We could do a lot worse at 2B and #2 in our lineup.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
My problem with either
I want to see the team get younger, and add some young players with good defense and baserunning skills.
I want to win a championship
I’ll take an old guy that produces enough at 2B to do that.
There are really only two ways to “add young players with good defense and baserunning skills”
1 – Draft and develop them – This could be quite a topic on whether Detroit does a good job in this area or not, but they are what they are. We have guys in the farm system that might develop into the sort of player you envision, but next year probably isn’t the year we’ll see them. Most of our young, athletic players are in Lakeland or below.
2 – Trade for them – This is what teams like Florida do. Small market teams trade with large market teams. The small market team trades a valuable player that is beginning to get expensive to a large market team for some prospects, maybe a year or two away from being the type of player you covet. The Tigers aren’t the Marlins or Pirates and we don’t want them to be.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
As If I don't want to win a championship
Hudson probably isn’t going to produce enough. He’s had 3 straight years of steady decline and he’s got a bad contract. He gets $5.5 Million in 2012, plus another $2 Million since we probably won’t pick up his $8 Million option for 2013. So $7.5 Million is what he’d cost us for one year. Plus we’d be giving up some young talent to get him. Out of all the bad ideas I’ve read on this thread, I think this is one of the worst.
Wait a minute...
you think that trading for Orlando Hudson is the “worst” option in this entire thread?
I wrote that thinking that it wouldn’t take much “talent” from Detroit to get him… based on the contract, and based on the fact that San Diego has a new GM. But if your solution is to go into 2012 with a platoon of Will Rhymes and Ryan Raburn at 2B, then I think THAT is the worst proposal in this thread.
"All aboard! There is plenty of room."
Brennan Boesch Bandwagon Conductor
The option decline does change things a bit
I didn’t realize that the 2M buyout was a factor. Good catch. For a total of 7.5M, it’s a much shakier decision. However, with that being the case, I don’t think he’d cost any real talent.
And like trross said, we could do substantially worse at 2B than O-Dog. They Santiago/Raburn/Rhymes/Sizemore/Guillen combo in 2011 stunk and cost us substantially more than 7.5M. A Santiago/Raburn combo next year probably costs us about 4.5M (if Santiago signs for an estimated 2-2.5M)
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
for what it's worth
can’t say I agree with him. I just don’t see us signing Roy
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
1 year / $9 million, that's giving himself away
Every team in baseball would love to have him for just $9 Million. That’s cheaper than getting a top closer.
Dempster just got his $14 Million option picked up. So I think $14M a year for multiple seasons is the starting point for serious talks with Mr. Oswalt. Ken Davidoff, what world are you dreaming in?
Roy won't be signing anywhere for $ 9 mil
Too many teams need a starting pitcher to let that happen. He only limits it to one season if that’s his choice. He can get at least a couple.
"King of Minutiae"
Aaron Hill
I always liked watching him in TO. I also think he would be a good clubhouse guy.
To be honest I really do not know what he would be worth or if he has made an all star game. Just a player that I think would work.
Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies
This is a suggestion that isn't something we necessarily should do, but rather due diligence.
But rather just look into for the hell of it.
Hanley Ramirez from the Marlins. There’s been a little bit of talk lately (I can’t find where I saw it) that Miami might want to go after Reyes for SS this offseason. Their 3B of the future (for now) is Matt Dominguez. If this were to happen, Hanley would have himself one hell of a fit.
Simply look into seeing what it would take to get him. Not necessarily going after him seriously. Find out if he’d be willing to play 3B. Sit on it until the trade deadline, then decide if you want to make a move.
I know this move wouldn’t be very likely, it might not be in the spirit of the thread either. His contract could work perfectly in coinciding with Castellanos’ development. Simply enough, DD should pay attention to this situation and do his homework if need be.
Wrong thread
Too many AS games…too much salary. Take this over to one of the other rosterbating threads where I feel like I can respond to it without breaking DT’s rules.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Yup
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
I understand this
I’m not advocating the Tigers have to go after Hanley. Rather, that if a certain set of conditions are met to look into it. I don’t think he’d be the best fit, his personality is hard to get over. Yet every year for the past 2 or 3 seasons it seems, the Tigers get linked to him as a possible trade partner.
David has the rule about reasoning for trades. I offered that: His personality problems and the Marlins potentially making him superfluous.
His salary isn’t a concern. It would only be about $1.5million more than the salary Aramis Ramirez would get at the 3/40 David would feel comfortable going. ($13.3 vs ~$15) He is also signed for the next 3 years making him only about $5-6million more expensive over those 3 years. A nominal cost.
He would be a massive upgrade at 3B and wouldn’t block Castellanos if indeed he sticks at 3B. Also, it’s not exactly as if David’s advocation for Aramis follows his own rules.
No, I don’t think it’s somethi that will happen. But with Dombrowski’s relationship with the Marlins, I could see it at least being investigated. If this I rosterbating but saying Aramis would be a good acquisition isn’t, then fine. If even with my trying to follow the rules I’m still posting this in the wrong thing, again, fine and I apologize. I’m just proposing a similar thing, I feel.
by TartanElk on Nov 1, 2011 5:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It is very similar to the ARam proposition
I was just giving you junk about it being on the wrong thread. I’m not the one that will blow a gasket if we mention names like FIELDER, PUJOLS, and REYES here.
// hears mighty whoosh of ban-hammer being swung.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Emilio Bonifacio
Tabbed best bunter in 2011
Switch hitter. 3B/SS/2B/ Outfield. Speedy.
I’d trade Dirks and Wilk for him.
it's more like "Emilioooooooooooo"
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Alright, I have an interesting idea
Jamie Moyer. He wants to play this coming season. The Tigers are supposedly looking for a veteran back-up. Invite him to spring training and work him for the 5th spot. If he stays healthy and makes it to the All-Star break, consider it a fantastic signing. At that point, you slide him into the bullpen due to Turner theoretically being ready to take over.
I'd do that
Mostly because Jamie Moyer rocks.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
Digging for a good picture of Moyer
<img src=“http://tween2worlds.us/wp-content/uploads/Abraham-Simpson.gif”/ width=200>
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Image fail...boo.
I’m not trying again.
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Moyer? Pass.
Nobody will find this exciting, but I would be happy with these guys:
(My signings in bold)
LHP’s Paul Maholm or Erik Bedard,
C Ryan Doumit or Jake Fox (who both play multiple positions)
2B/3B Willie Bloomquist, Jamey Carroll and/or Mark DeRosa.
1) Carroll 2B
2) Peralta SS
3) Boesch RF
4) Cabrera 1B
5) Martinez DH
6) Young LF
7) Avila C
8) Bloomquist 3B
9) Jackson CF
Speed at the bottom, makes Carroll able to move fast runners around.
Young in between V-Mart and Avila makes 2-7 hitters swing— R,L,R,L,R,L
Bedard 1 yr/5 mil, Bloomquist 2 yrs/5, Carroll 2 yrs/5 and Fox 2 yrs/2 mil is $12 million this season, and addresses 2B, 3B, top of the order, back-up C and LH 5th SP…
Not the greatest names, but additions I think.
Doumit/Fox
The point I never made was, I’d prefer Doumit, but Fox would fit in better financially, plus has some pop as a RHB.
Doumit
There is a difference between playing multiple positions and being able to stand in multiple locations on the field
Okay...
How often do you honestly think Doumit/Fox would do anything other than catch?
Raburn could platoon with Boesch in RF, and Young already bats R, so Doumit gives him a breather 10 games in LF maybe? Kelly can play LF too…
"Sensible"
I added four players at hopefully $12 million to address four needs.
I’ll add Juan Cruz for another $2 million.
I’ll take all of my moves for $14 million (hopefully) as opposed to your signing Jimmy Rollins to play 2B for $10 million a year.
four "players"
I like the Carrol idea, he is a good player who fits our needs, and Bedard if healthy, would slot into the rotation nicely, but I am not sure where the other guys fit. Doumit can’t stay healthy enough to catch, even if he could he is terrible at it, and both Willie Bloomquist, and Jake Fox are well below average, we have better internal options.
If you ended after Carrol and Bedard I would agree with you entirely. Sign those two at your estimated 7.5 and you have enough money to forget about Juan Cruz and sign a reliever who is actually good.
I'd do Doumit
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Nov 2, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
No problem at all
Pirates really chopped his value down by benching him so often, but he can play C and OF, switch hits and hits okay from both sides. Not sure how he calls a game but they felt Snyder was better in that dept.
Shoppach, Barajas….. okay.
"King of Minutiae"
regardless
of whether Doumit is a better OF option than Dirks overall (I honestly don’t think he it), something like half of Dirks appearances came as a late-inning defensive replacement, Doumit doesn’t really fit that role. A good chunk of Dirks starts came in CF to give Jackson time off, Doumit can’t do that.
I don't like that a backup catcher takes up an OF or IF spot
but if he’s going to do that, it helps a little bit that he can hit, so can be used to PH, and there’s a place to put him after that.
"King of Minutiae"
I agree with this
and in that case (under the assumption we are on a fairly tight budget) I would cite momo’s comment below and advise signing a cheap journeyman backstop and using the money saved on a position where we can generate higher marginal value.
Most important is a guy who knows how to call a game and work with pitchers
if you don’t have that, then you’re in trouble. Anything else is a bonus. I’m not sure that because Doumit got a nice contract one time in the PItts means he will cost more this time around. He was pretty much banished as starting catcher when they acquired Snyder, and it wasn’t because of hitting. Doumit would have a decent bat to bring off the bench from both sides of the plate.
In any case, I think we see how other things take shape, then fill out this spot.
"King of Minutiae"
PH duty late in games, maybe
Just kind of use him in matchups, or when you might want to replace a slumping guy.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
by David Tokarz on Nov 3, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet that Doumit gets a little expensive
And I do mean a little…I’m guessing he signs for 4-5M annually for somebody that is going to use him a lot more than we would, either in RF, at C, or DH.
Maybe we could match 4-5M, but I don’t think we should for what our team needs. I’d much rather spend 1-2M on our backup C and spend the 3M on something else (you can get a pretty good reliever for 3M…or add that to these decent 5M guys we’re talking about and turn it into a 8M guy.)
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Totally agree
It is highly likely some team gives him a chance to start, the Rays may be a good fit it that respect
Still Need a Backup C and RP
Avila is a gamer, and you would assume he won’t miss any (if much) time behind the plate. I don’t think there will be a guy excited to be a backup for us that would provide as much upside offensively.
You are right, Fox and Doumit are not good defensively, but that plays into their salaries staying low and them accepting their PT playing status.
Cruz is taking Zoom’s slot, besides the fact that Cruz may pitch all year. He’d be a 6th/7th inning guy, so we don’t need Kerry Wood or Jonathon Broxton (although I love Broxton at a discount).
We need multiple holes filled (I’ll take this back to a “PG” posting)… what do you propose?
If my budget was limited to 12 mil or so
2B- Second base is the easiest to fill, there are a lot of average-ish options, Carrol is probably my favorite low-cost option, but the Hill’s glove and the fact that he has been an everyday starter put them as basically a coin flip in my mind.
3B- This one is ugly. With the market so bad I would go with risk/reward guy, maybe DeRosa, or Kouzmanoff, either is capable of a 3 WAR season, or being terrible
SP- I would probably go without signing a starter, if I had to, Bedard would be a fine risk/ward option
C- Avila is going to start 120+ games, get someone cheap who plays good defense and is used to sitting for long periods of time, maybe another stint in Detroit for Matt Treanor
RP- Any money left goes to the best RP we can afford
Interesting pitchers
I’d like to see the Tigers take a look at Mike MacDougal and Rich Harden.
MacDougal could be a pretty low cost solid option for the seventh inning, and he’s coming off a very good season. He throws hard, but if you can get him on the cheap he’d basically be a slightly upgraded Ryan Perry.
Harden still has the potential to give you half a good season, and if the Tigers plan on bringing Turner along you could basically use him to split time. I’m not sure if he’d be too expensive though, I could see someone giving him WAY too much money.
Grady Sizemore and Martin Prado
Sign Sizemore to a 2-year $15 million incentive-laden contract. Then trade Dirks and a lefty pitcher prospect to the Braves for Prado. With Sizemore at lead off and Prado in the two slot, the top of the batting order has been fixed. Do I hear a take a chance on Kouzmanoff at third for 1-year deal???
I hope you're the actual Al Kaline
Because that wouldn’t be horrible.
If Kouz fails, you can move Prado over and go with a Raburn/Worth platoon at 2B. And Sizemore as an oft-used 4th OF would be a great move.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
I had a dream last night
That Dombrowski signed Jose Lima’s corpse to a 2 year $5 million deal. Is this sensible?
P.S. I was also sad to wake up and see that this didn’t actually happen.
Just read on MLB Trade Rumors..
“We will listen on [David] Wright for sure,” a Mets official told Sherman last week… Sherman says the Mets crave a “young, defensive-oriented center fielder plus an arm or two” for Wright. He says they are focusing most on the Angels, and Peter Bourjos is a possibility.
All it’ll take is Bourjos?? I mean he’s great defensively but nowhere near what I thought the Mets would be asking.
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
Hmm
If NY wants “Bourjos and an arm or two”, what about AJax and Oliver?
Detroit Tigers: 2011 AL Central Champs
I was thinking along the same lines
I wonder if we could get away with keeping AJax and moving a Boesch or a heavier-prospect package including Raburn
Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual
If the Angels get Wright
that should make Callaspo and Izturis more available. I would prefer either of them, and we should be able to keep Ajax.
by manic in Detroit on Nov 6, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
Kudos Tokarz
This has been my favorite thread in here since I’ve been a member here.
Manic is right, I’m hoping Wright goes to LA to make a movie for Callaspo, Izturis or Kendrick possible for us.
I'd love one of those guys
Cool complementary players.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
"I think of you more as the blue book style essay of sports journalism."-Kurt Mensching
Contributor, Bless You Boys
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