You make the call: Who's in your game 5 lineup for the Tigers?
by BigAl on Oct 5, 2011 2:30 PM EDT
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It's a much needed off day for both the Tigers, and an angst filled fanbase. It's been a roller-coaster ride following the Tigers this past week, with extreme highs (Justin Verlander mowing down Yankees in game 3) and bottom of the barrel lows (Last night's 8th inning). And Tigers fans were at an emotional low ebb after Tuesday night's blowout loss.
But it's a 5 game series in the ALDS, and it takes 3 win to end it. This series is not fait accompli just because it's headed back to New York. The Tigers have proven they can win in the Bronx bandbox called Yankee Stadium. (I swear Miguel Cabrera would hit 60 bombs there...good thing he's a Tiger). Just look back at game 2. So we know it can be done.
I think a Doug Fister - Ivan Nova matchup favors the Tigers. Fister is a veteran who was the best pitcher in baseball over the last 2 months of the season. Nova is solid, but he remains a rookie who has greatly benefited pitching for a loaded offensive lineup. With a game under their belt against Nova, the Tigers know what's coming.
Sure, it would help if Alex Avila and Austin Jackson would start hitting, Al Alburquerque would channel his regular season self and the Tigers would get the bottom of the Yankees' order out. But the series remains very, very winnable, no question about it.
Though it might be a little easier if Jim Leyland would bust out his best lineup...which is always open to interpretation.
In the comments of my last post, Honeyman tosses out his preferred game 5 lineup:
CF Austin Jackson
2B Ramon Santiago
LF Delmon Young
1B Miguel Cabrera
DH Victor Martinez
RF Magglio Ordonez
SS Jhonny Peralta
C Alex Avila
3B Brandon Inge
Personally, I don't see much wrong with this batting order. Though it would not bother me to see Ryan Raburn's bat in a lineup that could use the extra firepower.
So here's your chance to discuss the Tigers' game 5 lineup and batting order. Are you happy with Leyland's moves to this point? Has Raburn been under used? Can Inge continue to hit? Will Avila start hitting? Why does Don Kelly stay in the starting lineup?
Feel free to chime in with your lineup in the comments...and commiserate with other angsty Tigers fans.
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Realistically?
I’d like to see this happen:
CF Austin Jackson
RF Magglio Ordonez
LF Delmon Young
1B Miguel Cabrera
DH Victor Martinez
2B Ryan Raburn
SS Jhonny Peralta
C Alex Avila
3B Brandon Inge
If I could have it my way though, I’d rather see this.
SS Jhonny Peralta
RF Magglio Ordonez
1B Miguel Cabrera
DH Victor Martinez
LF Delmon Young
2B Ryan Raburn
C Alex Avila
3B Brandon Inge
CF Austin Jackson
With Apologies to E. Clapton:
Leyland! You’ve got us on our knees!
Leyland! A better lineup, please!
Leyland! Jimmy, won’t you ease our worried minds?
[Guitar duet]
by rea on Oct 5, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ain't gonna happen, but
CF Dirks
RF Ordonez
LF Delmon
1B Cabrera
DH Victor
3B Kelly
SS Peralta
C- Avila
2B Santiago
Sit Jackson, Inge, Santos, Raburn, and Betemit
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Adjustments to the above -- Get the hitters in the lineup
1. Betemit over Inge. Small sample size: Betemit is 1-4 and Inge is 0-2 vs Nova. Large sample size. Betemit’s career OPS .817 vs RH pitchers is to Inge’s .652. I don’t think defense is enough to offset that.
2. Raburn over Santiago. Raburn got one of the few hits of Nova last game. You can sub in defense later in the game if a lead materializes.
a crazy idea
1. Ramon Santiago – 2B
2. Wilson Betemit – 3B
3. Delmon Young – LF
4. Miguel Cabrera – 1B
5. Victor Martinez – DH
6. Jhonny Peralta – SS
7. Magglio Ordonez – RF
8. Alex Avila – C
9. Austin Jackson – CF
I would even consider giving Dirks a start against Nova, but he’s been on the bench too long and you’ve got to give Maggs a start in this elimination game. Betemit has been awful, but I like his pull power to right field. He hit well in the 2 hole in the last few games of the regular season. Brandon Inge has played admirably, but he’s much better off against left handers imo. Austin Jackson looks completely lost. I know we need him for his defense, but leading off a guy who is 1 for 12 with 5 ks seems incredibly stupid. He will get the most at bats then anyone else! I like the way Santiago is working counts and playing small ball, to me, he is our best lead off option. Additionally, his defense is instrumental with Fister on the hill and all those lefties in the Yankees lineup.
The bottom line is we can’t win unless Cabby, VMart and Avila hit. They did it all year long and thus far haven’t shown much.
Let’s hope Fister puts up a dominating performance and our guys can clear that short porch in right a few times and get out of there with the win.
As long as Kelly isn't starting Im fine with other line-ups
I couldn’t believe last night when we need one win at home against a struggling pitcher we start Don Kelly and worse off he’s batting 6th behind our biggest bats instead of Peralta or Avila…seems so frustrating to me when texas and tampa throw in pitchers who have pitched game ones and hit best players to do whatever it takes to win and yet we resort to back-ups because kelly can cover more ground in right and bats 6th because Leyland doesn’t want to throw off Avila or Peralta in the batting order…….sorry tangent over but I really hope Leyland does whatever it takes to win and not hold players on the bench for next round because there might not be one
Don't overreact to one game
This team dominated the last two months of the season with some strict platooning at 2b and 3b. Let’s not get carried away and throw Inge and Raburn in there against a RH pitcher when they didn’t hit against them all year. Stick with what got us here:
Jackson – CF
Ordonez – RF
Young – LF
Cabrera – 1B
Martinez – DH
Avila – C
Peralta – SS
Betemit – 3B
Santiago – 2B
Inge, Kelly late defensive replacements and Raburn is RH pinch-hit option off the bench.
by mgibbymsu on Oct 5, 2011 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
yes!
this is the correct answer! 100 points! swap betemit for kelly (jim already tipped his hand there) and this is the best we’ve got.
by situationalbuntingapologist on Oct 6, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I would want to see:
Austin Jackson CF
Wilson Betemit 3B
Delmon Young LF
Miguel Cabrera 1B
Victor Martinez DH
Magglio Ordonez RF
Jhonny Peralta SS
Alex Avila C
Ryan Raburn/Ramon Santiago 2B
wilson looked awesome in the 2 hole late in the season. But this time around, if its a close game, i want to see Inge out there as a defensive replacement. Austin… well, Jim’s not really going to take him out of that leadoff spot. Ordonez, after a few nice games has to be in the big game 5 game. In the 9 spot, if you want some pop i would put in Raburn, but if Jim wants to go slightly faster in the lineup who could possibly bunt some runners over in the later innings with better defense at 2B, thats where santiago comes in.
But, of course, Mr. Leyland has the final say in this, and after this season, I’m not going to question some of his moves anymore.
I don't know.
I haven’t seen Betemit hit crap. Inge on the other hand is actually putting the ball in play instead of golfing for K’s. Maybe Wilson has the better over bat this season, but Inge has been playing better over the course of the playoffs, and since the playoffs is all we have left in the season I’d go with who has actually hit the ball, not who hits better on paper.
If it wasn’t for Avila or Jacksons defense and/or ability to handle our rotation I’d ponder removing them as well. Obviously there are no better replacements who have shown anything else either so they stay in.
by Anthony Steven Lewis on Oct 5, 2011 3:08 PM EDT reply actions
Inge has been playing strictly against LHP's, though
I have a feeling that Nova would eat him alive.
Betemit was doing exactly what NOT to do against Burnett- swinging at junk outside the strike zone. Make that guy throw fastballs for strikes, then tee off on him. Betemit was awful at the plate and worse in the field. He cost us runs yesterday.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Possibly yeah.
DK would be okay as well.
by Anthony Steven Lewis on Oct 5, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm okay with it as well.
Inge can’t hit RHPs, and Betimit just didn’t look good yesterday.
Hopefully DK will take advantage of hitting left-handed in yankee stadium
I like Inge being used exactly how JL has been using him since he was recalled.
Starting against LHP’s and as a defensive replacement when the Tigers have a lead otherwise.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Saw this on Twitter
ChrisVannini Chris Vannini
RT @Chris_Iott: Leyland: Don Kelly to start at third base. Magglio Ordonez to start in right field. #Tigers
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
and this.....
beckjason Jason Beck
Leyland on bullpen: “Basically, I’d like to get thru this game with Fister, Coke, Benoit and Valverde.”
Well, Jimmy, I’d like you to leave Fister the hell alone if he’s pitching well, unlike his last start, or Max’s start, or Porcello’s start. But that’s just me…
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I don't blame him
If that situation is not made for Betemit, then what is? He hit over .300 with a .365 OBP and an .865 OPS against righties this season.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Then why not start him tomorrow?
Nova throws with his right hand last time I checked.
Not tryin’ to be a smart ass, td, but I really thought Maggs earned the start yesterday. That upsets me more than anything.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
I'd be more concerned about his defense
He did look awful chasing Burnett’s low breaking stuff that was outside the zone, but he’s a better hitter than Inge or Kelly, especially against RHP’s. His defense, though, not much you can do about that…
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
This is true
I still can’t believe he didn’t fall flat on his face getting back to third and catching the toss from Rick last night.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
I thought he wasn't even looking on that play, but he mad the grab backhanded just as he was crossing the bag
looked awkward
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
awkward isn't even the word for it.
It looked like sure disaster. It was a key play too, so it seemed to be happening in slow motion. I thought I was witnessing Jackass 4. Just needed that midget little person
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
With Fister on the mound, the importantce of infield defense is magnified
so I’d avoid Raburn and Betemit in the infield tomorrow. That’s a lefty and a righty on the bench when needed. I wish JL would be open to hitting for Young or Jackson, or even Avila if they were not hitting and the situation called for it. I think Avila is out of gas. He’s running on fumes.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
For those of you that know me...
You might want to sit down for this. I think this is the best thing possible for the team to start Kelly at third in Game 5. Betemit looks lost. I don’t trust Inge against a righty like Nova. Kelly has the best chance, as Leyland would say, to run into one at Yankee Stadium. Also, his D is miles ahead of Betemit’s nonsense.
But if he hits higher than 8th, Leyland should be shot.
My ideal lineup for this game (that has a chance at happening):
Jackson, CF
Ordonez, RF
Young, LF
Cabrera, 1B
Martinez, DH
Peralta, SS
Avila, C
Raburn, 2B
Kelly, 3B
I agree with this 100 percent
and would have liked to have seen this lineup last night as well. I think leaving Magglio on the bench was a big mistake against Burnett.
by Ryan in Brooklyn on Oct 5, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
If Fister brings it, it won't matter...
Whenever Mike Ditka boards an aircraft, it changes its call sign to Bear Force One.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 5, 2011 4:40 PM EDT reply actions
Game 5 Lineup
Dirks CF
Peralta SS
Young LF
Cabrera 1B
Martinez DH
Ordonez RF
Avila C
Raburn 2B
Kelly 3B
Both Jackson and Betemit have not looked good this series. With an elimination game on the line I say give Dirks a shot, Raburn has hit in the clutch in the past, and Kelly’s looked good with the bat and in the field. We get a few run lead then sub Santiago for Raburn, put Kelly in RF, and put Inge at 3B.
I’d rather see a .300 hitter like Peralta get more at bats than Santiago or whoever Leyland puts in the two spot. With the season on the line regardless of pitcher I’d like to see Kelly (.437 BA), Raburn (.400 BA), and Ordonez (.375 BA) in the game than Santiago (.200), Jackson (.083) or Betemit (.00000000000000000) at least to start the game because we need to get to Nova early!
We're 12 players deep
Just put Cabrera somewhere and whatever.
True 'dat!
And I sure don’t mind them walking him to get to Victor. I think Girardi is really playing with fire with that strategy. All series long I’ve been waiting for that to bite him in the ass….tommorrow, with 2 men on would be a perfect time.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
VMart's homer
Too bad it was a solo shot.
Man, Avila. He’s not right. 0 for 12 so far.
Game 5
Jackson cf
Peralta ss
Young lf
Cabrera 1b
Martinez dh
Ordonez rf
Betemit 2b
Inge 3b
Santos c
I would PH for Santos with Avila when he comes to bat maybe that might wake up his bat.
Wait, what? You’re facing elimination against a RHP and you’re going to not start the best catcher in the AL, who happens to also bat left?
by SpartanBoiler on Oct 5, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes a lot of sense
Almost as much as starting a guy at 2nd who has never played the position before.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
He’s played 20 games at 2B, including one this year in KC. However, I don’t think now is the time to put him out there.
by SpartanBoiler on Oct 5, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly no one has looked at Nova's splits today
Here’s my ideal lineup against the pitcher who is better against lefties than righties:
Jackson – CF
Maggs – RF
Delmon – LF
Miggy Smalls – 1B
Victor – DH
Peralta – SS
Raburn – 2B
Avila – C
Inge – 3B
Jackson is 2nd on the team in # of pitches seen during this series
And 1st in walks with 4 (Miguel also has 4, but 2 were intentional).
Regardless of the lineup
the guys who are penciled in there to play need to work on their approach. watching some replays of Nova pitching against us looked very similar to what was going on last night. swinging at garbage pitches that are bouncing in the dirt. if we continue doing that tomorrow we are in serious trouble.
I’m encouraged by the patience Ajax has shown so far, but quite a few guys in our lineup seem to be pressing way to hard, especially Avila. swinging at that junk they are throwing is basically giving away AB’s and that is absolutely infuriating.
work the count, be selective, and be aggressive when you get a good pitch to drive.
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
No Time to Panic Now
I believe you have to dance with the people you brought to the dance. I am of the opinion to that Jackson is a problem at leadoff but he has been there all year. With that said I would go with
Jackson
Ordonez
Young
Cabrera
Martinez
Peralta
Avilla
Betimet
Santiago
Is Avilla hurt or....
tired? Something is not right with him. Very weak swings.
Normally I would have Betemit in the lineup against a righty, but last night
he made me want to throw paint thinner in my eyes. Adam Dunn was seen cringing. Therefore, Wilson is dead to me.
I realistically hope for:
Jackson
Maggs
DY
Cabby
Vmart
Jhonny
Avila
Kelly
Santiago
I’d also be fine with replacing Santiago with Raburn and slotting him behind Jhonny. I think the offense for defense tradeoff there is about a wash. Avila looks like he trying out for the cast of Weekend at Bernie’s III, so he’s out of the 6th spot.
It’ll never happen, but l like TD’s suggestion of having Dirks lead off. Jackson is showing some modicum of patience, be he’s hardly been an igniter at the top. There is a reason why Cabby has a batting title, 30 home runs, nearly a .400 avg with RISP, yet finished the year with barely over 100 RBI’s. He hit well enough to get 130 with more opportunities.
I guarantee you a big game for Avila
The day off today was huge. He’ll come through.
I think Magglio gets a couple of hits from the 2-spot, and the middle of the lineup carries us.
Nova doesn’t make it out of the 6th, Tigers 7, Yanks 4. Valverde makes it interesting at the end.
#ALCS PLZ
Either way, the season boils down to one game for both the Tigers and the Yankees
and it’s exciting as all hell to be in this position. I’ll call it a successful season, either way.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
exciting, but super stressful
I’m already on edge
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
Kelly
He is hitting and he gives them speed.
GO TIGERS!
by Go get em TIgers on Oct 6, 2011 10:34 AM EDT reply actions
Here's what I'd go with
My ideal lineup:
CF Austin Jackson
RF Magglio Ordonez
LF Delmon Young
1B Miguel Cabrera
DH Victor Martinez
SS Jhonny Peralta
C Alex Avila
2B Ramon Santiago
3B Brandon Inge
My controlling for what Leyland likes lineup:
CF Don Kelly
RF Magglio Ordonez
LF Delmon Young
1B Miguel Cabrera
DH Victor Martinez
2B Ryan Raburn
SS Jhonny Peralta
C Alex Avila
3B Brandon Inge
Its now a one game season
Going to be tough to go in to NY and beat the Stankees. But, I have faith in our team.
Ajax
Mags
Young
Miggy
Vmart
Perraulta
Avila
Kelly
Santiago
When were winning in the 7th inning, Maggs is out, Kelly goes to RF and Inge comes in to play 3rd, Benoit closes the 8th, Papa the 9th 1-2-3 inning.
Call me crazy if you want, but here's my lineup
1 Alex Avila C
2 Victor Martinez DH
3 Wilson Betemit 3B
4 Miguel Cabrera 1B
5 Jhonny Peralta SS
6 Austin Jackson CF
7 Delmon Young LF
8 Ramon Santiago 2B
9 Ryan Raburn RF
From OFFICIAL_TIGERS on twitter:
Jackson 8
Kelly 5
Young 7
Cabrera 3
Martinez DH
Ordonez 9
Avila 2
Peralta 6
Santiago 4
Game 5
Santiago is a career role player for a reason. He cannot be in this lineup tonight!!! Save him for a sac if needed late
Jackson
Rayburn
Young
Cabrera
Victor
Maglio
Peralta
Avila
Inge
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