What the Tigers have to do to win ALDS Game 5 tonight
Score more than the Yankees. Haw-haw. OK, having got that out of the way so you guys won't do it in the comments ...
So let's write the script right here, right now., Barring any incredible blow outs that do not stem from reality -- but are always possible, baseball being baseball and unpredictable -- how does the game look in a Detroit victory? Someone's got to be the hero and get their face in next year's crop of postseason ads. Who will it be?
1) Tigers starter Doug Fister pitches seven innings and earns the quality start. At the very least, Fister has to go six innings and Phil Coke has to have a scoreless seventh inning. (Jim Leyland has said he'd like to stick to three relievers in the game and Coke is one of them.) However, it would help the Tigers immensely if Fister could make it through seven innings and hand the ball to Joaquin Benoit and Jose Valverde to finish it off. Fister's going to give up some runs. As good as he's been this season, these are the Yankees and this is Yankee Stadium. Both teams have hit some home runs there this series. But if Fister can limit it to three or fewer, it's a great start.
2) The Tigers have to score five or six runs. Dan Dickerson said this yesterday, and I believe it to be true. You're probably not going to squeak by the Yankees, 2-1. Anything is possible, but that seems highly unlikely. So the batters simply have to do a better job than they did in Games 1 and 4. This is doubly an issue because Game 1's pitcher -- after the rain suspension -- was none other than Ivan Nova, tonight's starter. Ahead of the game, Jim Leyland said it made them a bit nervous that they hadn't faced Nova and didn't know what to expect. Well, they've seen him now, and only a few days ago. Detroit has to use that knowledge to score a couple of sets of runs tonight in order to come out victorious.
3) Piggybacking on point two, the Tigers score a couple of runs early. For one, to take the crowd out of it. That's always good. For two, the Yankees have a strong bullpen in innings seven through nine. They're not impossible to score on, obviously, but it's improbable. So getting a few runs early and having a lead heading into the final third of the game is imperative.
4) No one is asked to bunt in the first inning. Thanks.
5) Austin Jackson and Alex Avila finally add some "O" to their "D." The pair are a combined 1-for-24 in the series. Austin Jackson at least manages to get on base by walking and has a respectable .313 on-base percentage. Avila has struggled in that, too, and just doesn't look right. The Tigers simply cannot rely on Don Kelly and Ramon Santiago to carry them into the next round.
6) Defense. I know the Yankees can "hit 'em where they ain't" pretty good. But for some reason Jackson has looked out of position on a couple of different plays hit to center field that we've seen him make several times before. It's not all on Jackson, of course. All his teammates have to show up tonight in the field. But Jackson needs to make a highlight reel grab or two of his own to match Curtis Granderson.
7) Tigers get the bounces. The only thing scarier than a five-game series is a one-game series. A bad bounce or two and it's over. If there are going to be any bad bounces or balls hit just inside the line or any of that other stuff, let's hope it goes our way. Don't the baseball gods owe us for 2009? I think they do.
OK, so those are my keys to the game. What do you have to add?
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I don't like the mentality in No. 1
If Fister is pitching well, Leyland needs to leave him the hell alone and not pull him like he did with Fister in game one, and with Porcello and Max. He got away with letting Benoit go two innings, giving up just the homer to Granderson, but the other two moves backfired. Whenever Tiger relievers not named Benoit or Valverde are involved, it’s time to start sweating. I don’t want to see Coke in the seventh inning unless Fister is really struggling.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
I was gonna say the same thing
Only time I wanna see Coke tonight is waddling out to a celebration after the game is over.
I think you nailed all the main points, Kurt. I’d add that we gotta do a better job to contain that bottom of the Yankee lineup…it’s killed us so far.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
strangely I'm pretty sure I said the same thing you guys did
Look if he’s got a shutout in the 8th that’s great but let’s be real here. Get the ball to Benoit with the lead.
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 6, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I would rather see Benoit come in in the seventh than Coke though, like he did in game two.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
I guess you did
but it’s the mentality of just getting six innings out of the starting pitcher that I don’t like, and we heard that out of Leyland recently. He cut Max and Fister a little bit of slack before resorting to the default option- I think too soon on a hair trigger, but he pulled Porcello right on cue.
It’s been the same all season long with very little variation in the results. Al Al has had some great moments, but he can’t be counted on right now at this critical moment and he was iffy coming off the DL with very little time to show he still has it. He could easily be a flash in the pan, but now is not the time to find out. New Yorkers know better than anyone how Coke can implode at the worst possible time- although he did a great job to settle down an unsettled pen after he rejoined the bully in mid season. If Verlander is out, Fister is our best pitcher and the best option to use when things get tough. A grounder that gets past Jhonny or a BB where Doug got squeezed is not cause for pulling the plug on him. When it gets to Schlereth or Perry, or (god forbid) Penny, we’re screwed. The disaster is predictable.
At the plate, patience is key once again. Make Nova throw strikes, and don’t be chasing balls outside the strike zone. Having no Inge, Raburn, or Betemit in the lineup will help this cause. Magglio and Santiago are much better at working a pitcher with contact.
I think there is a chance of a shut down game from Fister, although it’s unfair to expect that from him in this game against this team in that stadium.
I don't care what the Chinese say, 2011 is the Year of the Tiger!
Yep...
Yankees 7 8 9 and 1 hitters (including Montero’s 2 AB’s pinch hitting for Posada) have been on base 30 times in 4 games (19-57 with 10 BB’s/HBP, 17 K’s).
Our 7 8 9 and 1 hitters have been on base 14 times (8-53 with 6 BB’s, 19 K’s).
We’ve been kept in this series by the Yanks’ 4 5 6 hitters going 7-44 and Cano being 2-12 in Games 2-4 and FIVE of those 9 hits for these guys were in the 8th inning on Tuesday.
It’s been really irritating watching Posada, Martin and Gardner parading around the bases every time through the order, while Avila, Betemit and Jax are flailing away at the plate.
Keep the bottom half of the order to 3 or 4 times on base combined and the Yankees will have 5 months to replace the champagned soaked carpeting in the visitors clubhouse.
by davking1980 on Oct 6, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Keep the homer rate low
Yankee Stadium means more homers. With a guy like Fister on the mound (only 47.5% GB rate) I’m worried about that short porch in RF.
"You, on the other hand, make Eeyore look like Rainbow Brite." -johnmoz
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Wow - That is a surprising stat
I don’t know why but I thought Fister’s GB rate was much higher than that. For me this number makes Don Kelly at third a better move than I thought it was. I thought Fister through about 60% grounders
I really think that Girardi walking Miggy to get to VMart will burn him tonight.
They have either intentionally walked him or clearly pitched around him three times, I think, already this series. Victor is clutch with runners in soring position and I really would rather have him up in a key situation than anybody on the roster. Tonight, Girardi will pay for that strategy.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
I hope so, but...
Like Avila, Martinez hasn’t looked great in this series. You wonder how much the injury has been a factor. Of course, he did hit a home run in the last game…
Fister going 6+ innings would be probably the best thing
but the biggest thing the Tigers need to do tonight is SCORE RUNS. Thats the end result. If they dont score runs tonight, it doesn’t matter what the pitching does
Fan of the Tigers ~ Red Wings ~ Lions - No Better Town to be a sports fan of!
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Would it be greedy to want a Fister no hitter?
Whenever Mike Ditka boards an aircraft, it changes its call sign to Bear Force One.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 6, 2011 1:22 PM EDT reply actions
That'll work
Whenever Mike Ditka boards an aircraft, it changes its call sign to Bear Force One.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 6, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
patience at the plate
need to get some plate discipline. tired of seeing us swing at garbage in the dirt.
No longer the Founder, President and CEO of the Ryan Raburn Fan Club
I think the most important thing is focus at the dish....if everyone is calm, patient, and
disciplined, I would expect them to score 5 or so runs —which I think will be enough to win. I’m pretty confident Fister can limit the damage to <= 4 .
If the Tigers are flailing at sliders in the dirt with regularity, then we can all start making out our off season shopping list.
My key to the game:
Don’t throw up. I think I’m going to throw up.
1) Deep, cleansing breaths
2) No solid foods…….drink Jamba Juices (heavily spiked with vodka).
3) Keep you mind off the game if at all possible. Think of performing various physical acts of love with the T-mobile girl.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
Ahhhh.... T Mobile Girl......
Is my girlfriend reading this?
I don't think Leyland sees it the same way
If he thought the Tigers needed to score a minimum of 5 runs, I don’t think he’d be starting Kelly. Granted, Inge can’t hit any RH pitching, so he’s not a real option against Nova, but Kelly over Betemit is a real head-scratcher. Yes, Betemit’s 0-8 in the series, but he was 3-6 to end the season in Cleveland. The track record is pretty established with these guys. One can hit and one can’t.
Leyland’s decision is a pretty big one IMO, and probably exacerbated by the fact that he’ll hit Kelly high up in the order.
Wilson Betemit is 0 for 8 with four strikeouts
And recall that he hurt his knee in mid September.
I think Leyland is grasping for straws at third base right about now.
by Kurt Mensching on Oct 6, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Sample Size
Betemit’s been a big K guy all along. 0-8 isn’t a huge slump or anything. If you’re using that logic, you’d sit Avila and Jackson before him.
Betemit’s production in Cleveland (3-6, 2 BBs, double, triple, home run) indicates he’s over the knee problem (or it’s not a big problem in the first place).
I’d go with the guys that got me there, not hope that you’re catching a hot streak with a guy who has proven he can’t provide sustained offense in the long run.
Except
Avila and AJax have good Defense and the guys behind them Santos/Dirks aren’t nearly as good and haven’t even so much as taken a swing.
Otherwise I’d agree with you but unfortunately we need them at their post. DK is capable over at third and Wilson is less so. If we have to have a lefty batter at the hot corner right now I’d probably take DK as well.
That being said if things are working out I hope he’s not afraid to pinch hit here and there.
by Anthony Steven Lewis on Oct 6, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That's true
Defense is important – though I’m not sure the Avila/Santos difference is as big as you say. I’d just rather have the defense-oriented guys ready to go if/when we have the lead, and let the bats create that lead before it’s too late.
I’m not advocating for Jackson or Avila too be benched. Reading too much into a few games and concluding that they’re in a slump that won’t be broken is dubious.
One of the nice things about Kelly is that he is versatile. I’d just rather have him doing that off the bench.
I like Betemit, but...
Right now his swing has more holes than Kwame’s court testimony…
Bat the Bunt Wizard lower in the order and that’s probably the best we’re going to get to start the game.
He's had a few bad games
He tore it up in Cleveland. I think this is reading too much into this series and ignoring the larger history.
the sample you are looking at
is even smaller than the one that we are looking at. combined with clevelands numbers he is 3 for 14…not that hot
Betemit
won’t see a hittable pitch tonight and will strike out. Not an option in my book
by Mark Osbourne on Oct 6, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The nice thing about starting Kelly at 3B
If you get to a situation where you need to get a big hit and Kelly is up then you can PH Betemit and then at the bottom of that inning bring Inge in as a defensive replacement. That way, you get above average defense out of Kelly for most of the game at slightly less offense, get the offense you might need when you might need it, and then right back to average to above average defense after that.
You can also pinch hit Betemit for anyone, move Kelly to whoever he hits for position and bring in Inge for 3B.
Starting Kelly gives Leyland probably the best flexibility with his bench.
Today
is the 2nd anniversary of the dreaded Game 163. I had a feeling this morning that we are in for another nail-biting, agonizing game where the Tigers play well, fight hard and come up one run short. Maybe it is my way of setting my expectations low so that I won’t be disappointed and pleasantly surprised. But the baseball gods do owe us, so maybe it will be a nail-biting agonizing loss for the Yanks.
Also, it is funny how everyone is saying the Tigers need to score early because it will be a 7-inning game. Isn’t the same true for the Yanks? What is our record when leading after 7 this season? Something big and zero, if memory serves.
Not that I think we can conclude a great deal from 4 games
but the Yankees haven’t had much problem scoring in late innings this series
I think whoever is leading after 7 wins
And the Yankees have only scored runs late in the games they have already been winning. Whoever has had the lead going into the late innings has won every time.
Hey, look, this morning on one of the Twin Cities radio stations....
….one of the hosts said “millions of Americans are hoping the Tigers eliminate the Yankees tonight”…
All of Minnesota is pulling for you guys to win tonight, as is most of America. Don’t let your country down!!!
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Oct 6, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Two-point plan:
(1) hit
(2) pitch
(in that order, since it’s an away game.)
Jackson 1st, Kelly 2nd
Probably your 2 worst hitters at the top of the lineup. I know lineup order doesn’t matter very much, but between this and the lineup decisions, Leyland is really frustrating.
Yes, that sucks but you knew it was coming.
Really, Cabrera is our de facto leadoff hitter. We’re just really accommodating to the other team and let the bottom of our order hit first.
About the bullpen
Frankly, I’m not convinced that Verlander and Scherzer are unavailable. Given the right situation, we might see either one or both for 1-2 innings (eg: 6th or 7th inning or if we go deep into extra innings).
Any thoughts on that?
Mel
Extra innings - yes
I doubt 6th or 7th inning, since Coke or Benoit can be stretched out a little to cover into the 6th.
Verlander doing his
in between bullpen throw right now, so he is probably out.
@Joelsherman1
Surest sign that Verlander is not being used tonite in relief: Going to do his between-start bullpen right now #Yankees #Tigers
Simulations
from the simulations I ran the most likely final score is NYA winning 4-3. But that is normal when one team is a slight favorite and the home team. As far as the Tigers winning? Well, Vegas has the Yankees win expectancy at just over 61% right now. That is probably influenced by money coming in from Yankees fans. Vegas has seen 84% of the money come in on the Yankees for this game. My simulations have the Yankees with only around a 53% chance of winning this game, which I feel is more reasonable (Yes I did put money down on the Tigers to win tonight).
The reason the simulator gives the Tigers a better chance of winning is because it likes Doug Fister’s peripherals better than Ivan Nova’s. A closer look at any pitching stat other than win/loss record and ERA shows the Tigers with a decent advantage here. Nova’s only saving grace would be his knack for getting a lot of ground balls. Fister can get the ground ball too. And the winner may be the pitcher who can keep the ball on the ground tonight. That is what I would look for early in this game. Which pitcher is getting the ground ball. I’d also work the count on Nova as he has given up over 3 walks per 9 innings this year. Fister has been solid with his control this year.
That being said, this game will likely be a nail biter with one of the two closers having to nail down a one run lead. Good luck!!!!!
by Xeifrank on Oct 6, 2011 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
throw stats out the window,
anything can happen in game 7, i mean game 5
Joshd12
Brock University
BA. Sports Management, 2014
BA. Recreation and Leisure Studies
Comes down to 1 for me:
Fister has to be spectacular. He has to be as good as Max was. If he can’t do that, then the rest may not matter unless Nova derails.
I hate Jonathon Ericsson.
Disagree
We need to score more than they do.
"i think it will be mostly feast the rest of the year,"
They need to hit.
I think Fister will do OK this time around, but it’s tough to dominate the Yankees line-up. The Tigers have not hit like they did in September and that is what they will need to do tonight. Nova is hittable and they need to make the adjustments from game one and hit him hard.
These guys need to hit
Jackson 8
Kelly 5
Young 7
Cabrera 3
Martinez DH
Ordonez 9
Avila 2
Peralta 6
Santiago 4

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